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Dear Wargaming,

 

You have for some reason, with two years to have thought this through better, released a terrible line of ships that you are ascribing to the Royal Navy despite the absolute supremeacy of the Royal Navy throughout the period on which World of Warships focuses on up to about 1944 when the USN overtook them.

 

Now many Warships fans will not be Brits and therefore will not take this as a personal insult given that the worst Navy (if indeed it could be called such) of the same period is well represented in game (Russian of course) when the Royal Navy is a joke. They will however likely still be very disappointed that a Nation to whom the Navy were so important and whose lines of ships so diverse that you came with the rubbish you did.

 

Now here is the thing: I actually get your idea as Kandly put it of "these ships will highlight the rock-paper-scissors principle more than others". I applaud this. No HE but AP that will work on thin skinned ships? Fine, very interesting, forces a different play style for sure, no spamming HE

from behind / over smoke / cover, I like this, forces people to engage.

 

"On the whole, the ships in the new branch are excellent for hunting destroyers. Their low detectability and rapid-firing guns with unique AP shells make them efficient in encounters with destroyers, the “natural” opponents of cruisers." Fantastic! Sounds like lots of fun! But in fact, complete rubbish in terms of what you have actually delivered.

 

The thing is for "rock, paper, scissors" to apply, you must have strengths that allow you to be the paper to someone else's rock. These ships have no strengths and for the role you have ascribded for them are useless.

 

Take "Fast firing guns"; they are not in effect fast firing at all because:

1. Turret turn speed is slow.

2. Round velocity is low.

3. Round flight arc is high.

4. Range is low.

5. Accuracy is poor.

You can stick a gun firing at 1,000 RPM on deck but if it cannot turn to target and reliably put rounds on a moving and twisting target (such as the DD / CL that this line is dedicated to fight) then it's RPM / DPM is irrelevant.

 

If I am driving a DD and see a RN CL for your idea to be working I should be at the very least wary of how I engage. Only I don't. In fact, in a Russian, Polish or American DD I laugh, switch to AP, close in (easy when enemy turret is slow turning and round velocity low) and unleash a stream of citadels:

  • The US DD can get so many rounds in on target at 8Km or less with ease because their turret turn fast. At 6Km or less their shell's are flying pretty flat and the high rate of real world fire that fast turrets and high RPM create decimates your RN CL.
  • The Russian DD (tier 5 up) / Polish Blys just eats RN CL's. Roughly the same or better turret rotation speed but much faster flying rounds thus much greater accuracy of fire and much harder hitting.

 

In one game I got jumped by 3 Leanders in my Blys. About 45 seconds later I had 50% HP left and 3 full HP Leanders dead. In another took a full health Edniburgh with a near dead Benson because I could out turn him and my turrets could outturn him so I ambushed, drove counter to his line and switched to AP then put salvo after salvo into him at 4Km range for citadel heaven.

 

I am not that good a player, the RN CL is just that unsuited to task as I hope you can understand - if you can't you should perhaps look to sell off this game as you have no hope of sustaining this. Your customers understand, hence the forums are filled with fury and there are relatively few RN ships in any given game.

 

So how to fix this whilst actually REALLY implementing your excellent idea of creating a "rock, paper, scissors" game play and making a line that acts like a very capable DD hunter who can also ambush other harder hitting Crusiers without making the RN line OP?

 

Simple:

1. Increase turret turn speed substantially.

2. Increase shell velocity to 950m/s so shell arc is nice & flat, round to target time is low.

3. Keep or marginally reduce the hit value.

4. Reduce range down to 14Km at most.

5. Remove smoke. It is useless anyway for the purposes of escaping as short puffs ensure that 270 - 300 dgrees of view can still spot you if you use it to cover an exit. Given the awful inertia of these ships, even at 10Kts and braking you will overshoot your smoke if the idea is to hide.

6. Increase rudder repsonse time but keep turning circle

7. Increase speed - 36 Kts for a DD hunter minimum.

 

 

 

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[OM]
[OM]
Players
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And if one would say they work pretty well if you know how to use them? And that your two examples are not the best ones?

 

I mean seriously let people adopt the style of the RN cruisers and then see what happenends. LowTier they seem to be a bit lacking especially vs BBs but it gets better and imho they are perfectly fine.

 

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Supertester
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[...  ]despite the absolute supremeacy of the Royal Navy throughout the period on which World of Warships focuses[...]

 

Regarding the propaganda around them I absolutly agree ^^

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[H-M-S]
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Players
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Maybe there is simple solution... L2P. These ships are not bad (apart from starters).

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Players
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4 & 5 are tough, but then again look at what they are up against. The Emerald at 5 is up against the Konigsberg & Kirov. Both have much more firepower than it. If they did get tweaked, I don't think they would need much. Especially as they both get repair part 1. OK, that's not going to help when a BB targets you, but no other cruiser gets that until way later.

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[BONUS]
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Beta Tester
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These ships definitely require unique play style which turns out to be that of a Super Destroyer.

Edited by Hedgehog1963

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[YARRR]
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2. Round velocity is low.

3. Round flight arc is high.

4. Range is low.

 

Welcome to the reality mid-high tier US cruisers have to deal with everyday.

I highly doubt they'll change anything regarding shell velocity or arc, as that is usually the trade off for getting good rof and ap shells.

Imagine a 4 way graph of arcs/velocity, ap shells, he shells and rate of fire. You can choose to be good in 2. Except on Russian ships, which have great gun characteristics across the board :trollface:

Edited by El2aZeR

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[IDDQD]
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RN definitely dont need any bufs. 

Loot at stats, they are toping in nearly everything. All what you need is premium smoke. They play different and when so they can realy shine. 

When T7 is able to do this in T9 game... 76k avg dmg after 7 games...more than my T9 cruisers. Boadrside Iowa 5k each salvo on 10km. Seems rly strong line to me. 

shot_16_10_24_19_55_01_0241.jpg

 

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Beta Tester
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what they could do is

 

remove Emerald

or Danae and move Emerald to tier 4

 

and move Leander to tier 5

and replace it by a Minotaur class also called Swiftsure class (basicly Fiji without the  turret)

 

and you would actually have and enjoyable tier 5 and maybe even tier 4 cruiser

 

 

Swiftsure

hms-swiftsure-1945-light-cruiser.gif

 

instead of the Swishtsure you could also go with one of the refitted Town class cruisers such as Southampton

CATownNewcastle1.png

 

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Supertester, Players, Sailing Hamster
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what they could do is

 

remove Emerald

or Danae and move Emerald to tier 4

 

and move Leander to tier 5

and replace it by a Minotaur class also called Swiftsure class (basicly Fiji without the  turret)

 

and you would actually have and enjoyable tier 5 and maybe even tier 4 cruiser

 

 

Swiftsure

hms-swiftsure-1945-light-cruiser.gif

 

instead of the Swishtsure you could also go with one of the refitted Town class cruisers such as Southampton

CATownNewcastle1.png

 

 

Ehh no. That is probably one of the worse solutions out there. Emerald is not tier 4 material, and Leander is too good tier 5, from my experiences. 

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Ehh no. That is probably one of the worse solutions out there. Emerald is not tier 4 material, and Leander is too good tier 5, from my experiences. 

 

than go with the first option and remove Emerald

 

Leander just seems that "good" because you come from Emerald

if we go by that Königsberg could easily be tier 6

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Supertester, Players, Sailing Hamster
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than go with the first option and remove Emerald

 

Leander just seems that "good" because you come from Emerald

if we go by that Königsberg could easily be tier 6

 

Not really, Konigsberg only beats Leander in AP performance, having 1 more gun, shell velocity and firing range. In every single other aspect, Leander is equal to or better. The power creep plaguing mid-tier cruisers that you could easily see cruisers like Leander, La Galissoniere and D'Aosta losing their tier 6 status to tier 5, which is not helping the problem of power creep, so while Konigsberg is in some ways comparable to Leander, Leander (with HE here, I can't see AP only Leander lasting too long). Removing Emerald etc. solves no problems with power creep, or the RN CL line.

 

Either way, I will defend Emerald's right to be at tier 5 and Leander's right to be at tier 6 against attacks on them to be lower tier, they are mainly seen as a bad due to the way WG have implemented them, which is pretty terrible. I have done so much arguing on this topic on the NA forums that I can't really be bothered to explain in detail here. 

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Players
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tier 2 is more or less on par with the rest, tier 3 is weak, tier 4 is curiously fun but weak, tier 5 is terrible, tier 6 is great.

or at least looks great after the Emerald (honeslty i free-xp'd half of that floating junk, it was painful), but finally has the punch the rest of the line lacks up to it, can be hit a couple of times without being killed (if angled, don't expect miracles), and manouvres like the light cruiser it's supposed to be.

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Beta Tester
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Imo, what they should do to RN ships in order to make them more fun:

  •  Suvivability
    1. remove smoke from the cruisers
    2.  one or a combination of the following (has to be tested in order to balance them)
      1. reduce their citadel size
      2. reduce the citadel damage they take
      3. Remove their citadels (because of their weak armor, they take already heavy damage from both normal AP penetrations AND HE)
      4. keep the heals on them as they are (maybe slight buff on the lower tier ships)
  • Gun systems
    1. Give them HE shells too (weak damage, 3 to 5% fire chance)
    2.  Increase their muzzle velocity slightly (better than US cruisers, worse than RU cruisers, probably somewhere in the range of 880 - 920)
    3.  Increase the gun traverse speed, together with expert marksman they should have someting between 15-20 i think. This is needed because they have to turn very much to dodge incoming shells.
  • Consumables
    • Same as now, but just remove smoke on all of them (radar from T7 onwards)

This would be the true spirit of a light cruiser line. For survivability they have to rely on dodging incoming shells with their good mobility and agility. With this slightly increased gun velocity they can reliable hit enemy dd's and ca's at 10+ km (with good aim), with accurate but weak damaging guns. Weak HE so to not make them helpless vs angled ships.

At the moment their design is so incoherent: they have good mobility and agility, but in order to survive they have to sit still in smoke. How does that combine with light cruisers? Light cruisers should constantly sail around the seas and plug the weak sides of the team with their low damage but fast and accurate gun fire. That would be in the true spirit of a CL line.

I think with the above mentioned changes you would get a unique and fun cruiser line. Off course with so many changes they have to go back in testing phase. For that i would temporarily remove all RN cruisers from the game.

Edited by Admiral_Jellicoe
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Give Emerald 10 km torpedoes like Furutaka.

 

Fun times. :great:

 

Give them the heal like Warspite has (heal more of medium and heavy damage taken)

 

Actually Tier 8+ have much better heals than Warspite.

 

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RN definitely dont need any bufs. 

Loot at stats, they are toping in nearly everything. All what you need is premium smoke. They play different and when so they can realy shine. 

When T7 is able to do this in T9 game... 76k avg dmg after 7 games...more than my T9 cruisers. Boadrside Iowa 5k each salvo on 10km. Seems rly strong line to me. 

Spoiler
 

 

 

comparing server stats is completely pointless, at the moment.

the average player hasn't reached (or jumped) yet to high tiers. so you're basically comparing what VERY dedicated and mostly skilled players are doing these last few days, against what people like ME did or is doing in the same tiers, with other ships.

for example, my 69% WR in the Omaha and even my 55% WR in pre-buff Furutaka don't compare too well with my 30% WR in the Emerald, despite the fact that i've probably grown better in the last year or so... i can't be sure of it, but i bet most average players are experiencing something quite similar

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Beta Tester
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In my opinion:l(using a t7):

1. Never had much of a problem with the turrets unless a ship is going across my ship and im turning against the turrets.

2. The shells work  on boradside CA amour up to about 12km. Would the increase totally fix then probably not but may help to some degree.

3.sure if it get a good buff else where to mitigate the dam dip

4. The range is rather limited at the moment and i don't really want to be forced any closer if i don't want to close

5.but smoke is one of the best bits, sure the best you can get away with is 14knots as for some reason they are very fast to move off but not stopping but once your in smoke people forget you there a bit more and finding nice shots happen more so why remove a saver for rhe line?

6. Sub 8 seconds rudder is still good and you can buff it more at the cost of stealth to about 4 5 seconds doesn't need a buff there

7. I play with the speed flag so it at around 34-35 knots and that makes it feel nicer both in straight lines and in the turns.

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[TOAST]
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I think you will find that the Russians are as proud of the WW2 RN as we Brits are due to the food convoys we sent to them at a cost of 1000's of Merchant Navy seamen as well as RN Sailors lives, and I definitely do not think they sabotaged the line, they have some mistakes to fix, yes, but overall, stats are showing that the RN line is pretty good if played with skill and a DD player mentality.

 

.

 

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Players
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The only thing i would change on the RN CL's is their slow stopping time, if they had Cleveland stopping time they would be able to avoid damage better and be much nicer to play as they seem to just keep on gliding for forever when you slow down in them, and torpedo beats in them is sudden death.

 

The turret speed is fine, but i would like a HE shell with 5% fire chance so ships can do damage to bow on targets without HE being the main shell of the ship.

 

But playing against russian fire whores it just frustrating not being able to hurt them with AP at 12-13 km as the shells lose its punch at anything over 12km so a HE shell for long range would be nice, though the Belfast's HE don't even do damage to BB's at times.

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[IDDQD]
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But playing against russian fire whores it just frustrating not being able to hurt them with AP at 12-13 km as the shells lose its punch at anything over 12km so a HE shell for long range would be nice

 

in such situation is best just stop shooting, disappear due to your low detection range and wait for better moment to engage again (if you are not in smoke ofc :))

 

and please not HE...we havent enought cruisers with them?

Edited by Quetak

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Players
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Most of the line are very hard, but not completely broken*. Emerald is the one true failure of the line. It's a 1920s Commerce Escort trying to be a Fleet Light Cruiser in a BB rich WW2 meta game. It's utterly out of it's element. The best Wargaming could do to fix it would be to take it out back and shoot it. Then replace it with the 1930s Arethusa.

 

*Danae could use it's citadel shrunk a tiny bit as Repair Party I does nothing for citadel hits, which for the Danae is every hit. It's also historically justified as Danae's raised portion of the citadel was for her boiler room only and so should only extend the width of her funnels, not the width of her masts. You can see this on the in game armour viewer, there are portholes where the armour view says there are magazines and machinery spaces.
(And yes, I have checked this on Danae's blueprints.)

Edited by Jay135
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Emerald is beautiful, keep her at tier 5   ...with Mk II 10km torpedoes.

 

Boom, suddenly you get the most fun ship in the game (without being OP)

 

<3

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[OSC]
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Emerald is beautiful, keep her at tier 5   ...with Mk II 10km torpedoes.

 

Boom, suddenly you get the most fun ship in the game (without being OP)

 

<3

 

10 km torpedos?? I want that :)

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