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Brit CL - failed concept, failed execution

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Concept

- RN should never have been an *experimental* line, this is hugely inappropriate for reasons everyone understands.

- Ethos - short range, inflexible, counting on enemy mistakes/team support, hit and run, and most important of all, hiding in smoke. WG does its research, it knows full well the RN were aggressive to the point of suicidal stupidity. They are the least suited to hiding in smoke of any nation. They should be out and out brawlers. This is not just a poor but an insulting choice from WG.

- WG don't even understand this line themselves. They describe their role as "DD hunters" - they are the least suited to this role of any cruisers currently in game, because they have no HE for crippling engines/modules, and they have terrible fire arcs. In Brit cruisers you should fear brawling with gunboats, not vice versa.

- If WG don't understand these ships' role then that is a good indication they don't really have one. You are not a major threat to DDs, CAs or BBs in standard engagement conditions.

- Torps are good, no complaints.

- Smoke is fine for spamming, thats the only real tactic for these ships: smoke spam. Just what everyone has been crying out for more of ;)

 

Execution

- Just had a game in Edinburgh, 63 hits on a Tirpitz - 13k damage.

- Played Edinburgh yesterday, doing well, closed on the enemy Shokaku - peppered it with salvos, virtually every shell bounced or straddles. Hit it around 25 times for about 2k damage. With no HE, you have no option.

- BBs at distance/angled - you're lucky to reach 500 dmg per hit. Usually its zero dmg.

- The shells are not accurate, bad spreads.

- DDs will often bounce your shells.

- Angled ships, of any kind, will bounce you a lot.

- You are ultra fragile, but this is not balanced with ultra damage output - in fact it seems very hard to wrack up big damage in these ships, for the reasons above.

 

So its hard to hit a ship due to fire arc, if you aim right you're lucky to hit due to dispersion, and of the shells that do hit many do zero damage - and you have no alternative ammunition. A NC was running away from us for about 4 minutes, at maximum range, i probably landed 30-40 hits, for roughly 2-3k damage. Most were zero.

 

My overall cruiser WR is 55%, i'm a decent cruiser player, and i skipped the first 5 tiers due to awful reports and looking at their stats. This is from playing Fiji, Leander, Edinburgh and Belfast (different story).

 

Early days, yes, but these are critical issues - unable to hit DDs, unable to do reliably damage ships of all classes, including DDs and CVs, in anything other than ideal broadside conditions, lack of fire and hugely reduced module damage, incapable in their described role as DD hunters, and finally, they get nuked by every ship out there.

 

Fixes: much better fire arcs, better penetration, maybe the introduction of HE with very low fire chance, like 3%, maybe buff the armour. If it means taking away smoke, radar, anything, then do it. Or simply revert to standard AP/HE duo. This was not the line to experiment on.

 

**I am not asking for OP ships, i am asking for good ships - like everyone else has. I haven't played a huge amount of games in them. I am not accusing WG of intentionally making Brit stuff crap (again). But compare this line to German BBs, or Russian cruisers, and the contrast is pretty savage.**

 

PS - this reminds me of world of tanks, the "hybrid" tanks - neither heavy nor medium, "best of both" they said, actually worst of both. Same with these ships - they are like big, slow DDs with terrible arcs.
 

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Concept

- RN should never have been an *experimental* line, this is hugely inappropriate for reasons everyone understands.

- Ethos - short range, inflexible, counting on enemy mistakes/team support, hit and run, and most important of all, hiding in smoke. WG does its research, it knows full well the RN were aggressive to the point of suicidal stupidity. They are the least suited to hiding in smoke of any nation. They should be out and out brawlers. This is not just a poor but an insulting choice from WG.

- WG don't even understand this line themselves. They describe their role as "DD hunters" - they are the least suited to this role of any cruisers currently in game, because they have no HE for crippling engines/modules, and they have terrible fire arcs. In Brit cruisers you should fear brawling with gunboats, not vice versa.

- If WG don't understand these ships' role then that is a good indication they don't really have one. You are not a major threat to DDs, CAs or BBs in standard engagement conditions.

- Torps are good, no complaints.

- Smoke is fine for spamming, thats the only real tactic for these ships: smoke spam. Just what everyone has been crying out for more of ;)

 

Execution

- Just had a game in Edinburgh, 63 hits on a Tirpitz - 13k damage.

- Played Edinburgh yesterday, doing well, closed on the enemy Shokaku - peppered it with salvos, virtually every shell bounced or straddles. Hit it around 25 times for about 2k damage. With no HE, you have no option.

- BBs at distance/angled - you're lucky to reach 500 dmg per hit. Usually its zero dmg.

- The shells are not accurate, bad spreads.

- DDs will often bounce your shells.

- Angled ships, of any kind, will bounce you a lot.

- You are ultra fragile, but this is not balanced with ultra damage output - in fact it seems very hard to wrack up big damage in these ships, for the reasons above.

 

So its hard to hit a ship due to fire arc, if you aim right you're lucky to hit due to dispersion, and of the shells that do hit many do zero damage - and you have no alternative ammunition. A NC was running away from us for about 4 minutes, at maximum range, i probably landed 30-40 hits, for roughly 2-3k damage. Most were zero.

 

My overall cruiser WR is 55%, i'm a decent cruiser player, and i skipped the first 5 tiers due to awful reports and looking at their stats. This is from playing Fiji, Leander, Edinburgh and Belfast (different story).

 

Early days, yes, but these are critical issues - unable to hit DDs, unable to do reliably damage ships of all classes, including DDs and CVs, in anything other than ideal broadside conditions, lack of fire and hugely reduced module damage, incapable in their described role as DD hunters, and finally, they get nuked by every ship out there.

 

Fixes: much better fire arcs, better penetration, maybe the introduction of HE with very low fire chance, like 3%, maybe buff the armour. If it means taking away smoke, radar, anything, then do it. Or simply revert to standard AP/HE duo. This was not the line to experiment on.

 

**I am not asking for OP ships, i am asking for good ships - like everyone else has. I haven't played a huge amount of games in them. I am not accusing WG of intentionally making Brit stuff crap (again). But compare this line to German BBs, or Russian cruisers, and the contrast is pretty savage.**

 

PS - this reminds me of world of tanks, the "hybrid" tanks - neither heavy nor medium, "best of both" they said, actually worst of both. Same with these ships - they are like big, slow DDs with terrible arcs.

 

 

They are good ships, they are just different. Try to adapt.

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Nothing wrong with them once you understand how to play them. They are tricky certainly, but adapt. They can be a lot of fun. I am having a blast in the Danae and Emerald (yes, even the Emerald). Oh and as far as DD's are concerned. I have sunk a decent amount in the last couple of days, more than any other class. Certainly more than I usually do.

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Performancewise they seem ok.

But I do no not like the concept. Feels artifical.

 

​Certainly it does feel alien, no doubt about that. Personally though, I am starting to gel with them.

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OP nails it on the head

RN CA line is a joke.

For whatever reason WG don't want these ships to have HE other than Belfast. And they still gimp anyone that buys her by removing torps LOL

 

For "light cruisers" they feel very sluggish. Leander and Fiji

 

Will WG do a anything about how it. I doubt it very much

As the few Unicums will make the line seem OP when they platoon in randoms.

 

 

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Had some very good games in my Leander which is sitting at about 60% WR currently. Even managed to get top of the team in a t8  game in it with 2k base XP. Sometimes it's better not to fire and relocate to a move favourable position. Really liking the line from Leander and can't wait for the Fiji 

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Just came to my mind. If a certain concept is a failiure, can it be executed flawlessly?

 

 

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nothing wrong with them

(low XP b/c standart acc)

PBSC106.png Leander 6 CA/CL  UK 58 67.24% 41,924 984 1.1 0.8 1.2 33% 42% 6% 1,000

 

 

Edited by Kaseko

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I am more disappointed as a CL fan than as a RN fan tbh. I was looking forward to a line that plays in a similar way to the omaha: good maneuverability, fast firing guns and tools to deal with every ship it comes across with enough skill. I was expecting the terribad armour because they're light cruisers, I want more of that high intensity gameplay where I am constantly dodging shots while settings fires and citadeling stuff, closing in and dropping torps on top of BBs or getting blown up while trying.

Smoke is something they would need from tier 8 or so just because the game gets so much harder for cruisers at that point let alone light cruisers but I would rather take HE than smoke.

 

I was looking forward to something exciting, not some gimmicky half baked line and I got..... this....... I don't care how "good" they are, I don't care how well some highly skilled player can do in the tier 10, I don't care how good some ridiculously expensive premium is, I just want something fun to play and the line in it's current state is absolutely unfun for me. Half of the fun with playing light cruisers is burning BBs to death and dodging everything XD. HE is THE ammo for light cruisers no matter what anyone says.

 

And finally, as a Brit I am disappointed they chose one of the most highly anticipated nations being used for the experimental line. WG this isn't a moba, not every line needs to play differently, so don't try and force the moba dev mindset of every character needing to play differently into a game where it isn't needed.

Edited by Penguin_mafia
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OP nails it on the head

RN CA line is a joke.

For whatever reason WG don't want these ships to have HE other than Belfast. And they still gimp anyone that buys her by removing torps LOL

 

For "light cruisers" they feel very sluggish. Leander and Fiji

 

Will WG do a anything about how it. I doubt it very much

As the few Unicums will make the line seem OP when they platoon in randoms.

 

 

​Belfast would be OP with torps on top of everything else.
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Im starting to like them a bit more but still not as much as other lines or my atlanta. There are two things that really get me 

1. The ap or rather the lack of HE when fighting any angled ship, any HE shell that would give the same sort of damage output on angled ships would be nice.

2. The arcs, now im not saying they are bad as such but at longer ranges you are more of an atlanta making pening anything rather hard.

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how do you know that the RN CA line is bad? they arent even in the game yet !:trollface:

 

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The major failure of RN line was trying to introduce new gimmicky cruiserline at a time when BBs are dominating the MM as well as the battle. German BBs are almost a direct hard counter to this line, there is no place for british cruisers in current environment.

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OP nails it on the head

RN CA line is a joke.

For whatever reason WG don't want these ships to have HE other than Belfast. And they still gimp anyone that buys her by removing torps LOL

 

For "light cruisers" they feel very sluggish. Leander and Fiji

 

Will WG do a anything about how it. I doubt it very much

As the few Unicums will make the line seem OP when they platoon in randoms.

 

 

RN torps are good but since the nerf in detectability and al the hydro, vigilance perk and some people that use the tier 8 module for me they are not that useful, so I don't consider that Belfast not having torps is a big loss. For me torps are useful in close range ambushes in which you won't be with Belfast to start with.

 

About Belfast having HE, p2win and all that stuff... true, Belfast has radar and hidro to spot earlier torpedos in smoke, but any good player can shoot a Belfast in smoke and she will stil take huge damage as all other RN cruisers, it's not invincible. And she has HE pretty much because it's a premium ship whcih you pay money for, you're not gonna get refunded a premium ship, so they don't want people asking for a refund for one, and since AP alone it's difficult to play for everyone who could pay for the Belfast my bet is that she has HE because of that, if you don't like the AP you have HE, so you don't complain as much.

 

For example I have to admit that I bought the Belfast thinking it was the only RN cruiser worth because of having HE, and pretty much the consumables but I'm gladly surprised that the AP is really good and I read everywhere that the shells get a lot better in higher tiers, so... I hate low tier RN cruisers, but that's it, try to learn how to use them, endure the low tiers, but higher tier ones seem to be a lot better. You still wont penetrate angled ships most of the time, but adapt to that it's a lot better than in low tiers.

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Concept

- RN should never have been an *experimental* line, this is hugely inappropriate for reasons everyone understands.

 

Explain this one plz? I don't get it.

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Explain this one plz? I don't get it.

 

For a start they are 'real' ships (it's a game I know), but some players have/had relatives who fought in these ships against Germans/Italians/Japanese/Vichy France/perhaps even revolutionary Russia also.

So if WG wanted to introduce a 'paper concept' as a design mode, perhaps they ought to have used a 'paper ships' line, which are in game already. - If you;re going to use a fantasy concept, then apply it to fantasy ships first to see how it works.

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​Belfast would be OP with torps on top of everything else.

£27 for just the ship It should be OP 

This is a Pay2win game after all.

A certain German BB P2W ship has torps. No one says she is OP. 

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OP nails it on the head

RN CA line is a joke.

For whatever reason WG don't want these ships to have HE other than Belfast. And they still gimp anyone that buys her by removing torps LOL

 

For "light cruisers" they feel very sluggish. Leander and Fiji

 

Will WG do a anything about how it. I doubt it very much

As the few Unicums will make the line seem OP when they platoon in randoms.

 

 

Sigh. CA are heavy cruisers, CL are light cruisers.

 

and "light" or "heavy" refers to armament, not speed, protection or amount of Queen/Stalin/Pope/WG blessing.

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Seems clear that WG have given up on developing the game, sadly. when as a company you are introducing new nations without an anticipation that it will attract new players to the game

 

I guess WG could argue that it's relationship with its British playerbase across it's titles has never been very good, but even so it seems a lost opportunity to me

Edited by BlueMoon51

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For "light cruisers" they feel very sluggish. Leander and Fiji

 

​The light/heavy designation has nothing to do with ship charactaristics, it is solely based on the caliber of the main armament.

Everything that has up to ~203mm main guns is considered a light cruiser, everything above is a heavy cruiser.

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Iv had many different reactions from players in the teams Iv played the Fiji on in the last few days.

 

Ranging between guys on my team asking if the ship is really that overpowered? When things are going well as they have not witnessed the smoke spam.

 

to things like stop camping you noob when I don't charge in due to no armour at all.

 

And worst from the other team ALOT of expletives when im sat in smoke spamming away.

 

Now I for the first time in the life of this game i actually agree with some of the chat flames Iv gotten when playing this ship. Basically will very little armour, no HE , fairly slow shells, the "best" way to play the ship is to use your steath to get to around 11k away. Pop smoke and sit there firing and hoping for some good numbers from the gods of RNG.

You simply can't be out in the open for long at all.

 

I must say I don't like this concept and feel that it's adds more frustration to players than enjoyment for me.

I feel bad for the people in smoke I'm shelling for often minutes at a time and can understand why they get annoyed

 

And I understand the frustration of fellow team members when I can't leave said smoke to help cap/dd screen as il just get deleted.

 

I think a better solution to the line of ships would be as follows

 

Loose the smoke or maybe alter it so it's more a last effort defensive for you to disengage and not lasting so long it's a wepon itself

 

Add HE so you can be multi role like every other cruiser in the game

 

Change the survivability. Now I realise we can't just add armour that wasn't there so I'd leave it how it is, but why cant we just make the "thing" for these ships the fact that there armour is bad but they can repair a lot of heavy damage. Much like the warspite can with its repair.

 

This way instead of the

 

Sneak in - Smoke spam - low damage - smoke fades get deleted rinse repeat. we have now we could get something like below

 

Sneak in cause meaningful HE or AP damage to targets as needed (multi role) - take return fire spin around pop short duration smoke to withdraw - repair considerable about of damage taken as your armours still bad (fair I think ) - re engage

 

 

I think this way we will have enough of a different play style as you still can't take a lot of big gun hits without sinking CL after all. but we will have taken the more annoying parts of the game away ie smoke spam, RNG dependence on the a shells. And kept continuity from warspite with RN better repair party as the RN thing not smoke spam that's hated by most.

 

 

Thoughts ?

 

 

 

 

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The more I play the more I think this is a storm in a tea cup.

 

Some talk about the RN being aggressive and they should have better armour pen and HE and lower arks so they can fire at 14k.

To all that I say BS, I think this is the fundamental problem with this game, no one likes BBs sitting at the rear taking pot shots and DDs don't like CA / CLs sitting too far back and unable to support them, CA/CL claim that they don't go in because of no BB support, etc etc.

There is a common theme, long range combat is not what we want or need, the RN line forces them to get up close and take the fight to them, it forces them to be more aggressive, even though hiding is the priority that doesn't prohibit aggressive behaviour.

 

The line needs some tweaks, but its just a different play style, you can annihilate BBs with 4k salvos against even angled targets, you can utterly destroy DDs, CLs are easy pickings, CAs are a lot more troublesome but this isn't a lone wolf game, you should have team mates and both you and them need to learn to play the classes.

 

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