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Yaffle1234

RN CL take a breath

RN CL - Take a breath but be honest  

233 members have voted

  1. 1. The RN CL line was a serious mistake/miscalculation

    • Yes
      136
    • No
      54
    • Not so serious at all
      43
  2. 2. They might grow on me yet

    • Yes
      75
    • No
      73
    • Maybe - Its to early
      85
  3. 3. Its thats bad pull them fast and try again

    • Yes
      84
    • No
      96
    • I'm undeicided
      53
  4. 4. I'm happpy for wargaming to look at the stats and reblance

    • Yes
      176
    • No
      30
    • They are that bad I voted to remove them
      27
  5. 5. Rework them but please do it quickly

    • Yes
      144
    • No
      72
    • I voted to remove them
      17
  6. 6. I'm happy with them as they are

    • Yes
      62
    • No
      171
  7. 7. But.....

    • I understsand what wargaming were trying to do
      82
    • I can't comprehend it
      25
    • Please dont experiment with a full line again
      52
    • Experiment all you like, jyst fix it, if it goes bad
      71

77 comments in this topic

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Beta Tester
139 posts
9,165 battles

Hi Guys,

 

Clearly there has been some expressed disappointment, not least from me. I'm actually quite unhappy with the apparent priority of WG to rapidly edit/remove/ sanction folk thus appearing to unable to understand the frustration and in so doing may have ignored/overlooked the root cause - themselves.


 

That said I might be completely wrong, but I am interested in what the community now thinks after a little time to digest the matter.


 

Note to Mods, this post in not intended nor do I believe to contravene any forum rules (I have been reminded a few times over the last two days). I would also point out the words in italics are not tendered as factual statements rather an opinion and as such happy to be corrected. Of course if this post is felt to breach rules could I request you simply ask me to modify it rather than as may appear as an excuse to remove it.


 

And as I Mum used to say to me as a kid 'do as I say not as I do', meaning I haven't been constructive (for which I apologise) but ask others to do so whilst we (if you wish) discuss this. The aim of course to be constructively clear.

Edited by Yaffle1234
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Beta Tester
139 posts
9,165 battles

Btw, I did vote - I understand what WG were trying to do on the basis the RN was actually quite strong during test, but following adverse comments re CL's running around popping smoke and HE spamming all day long (which I agree with) a change was needed.

 

I'm not sure about appearing  to 'rush them out' to see how the 'new' ship style works, without WG accepting and saying there may have been of degree of balancing the release of the RN (i.e getting them right) versus the desire to see them in game and thus some degree of testing in a 'live environment'. ( I would have been happy with that).

I'm fairly sure the possible perceived 'negatives' with regards to WG's re-action to adverse criticism will be received poorly but that may be down to certain folk (and thus not WG as a whole at all?) and trust that will be recognised and dealt with internally I,e we shouldn't discuss more than we have.

Edited by Yaffle1234

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Beta Tester
734 posts
1,694 battles

I do believe Wargaming was right to experiment with one of the ship lines

 

however, they chose the wrong line.

 

Wargaming made a huge mistake when they made the Brit Tanks in WoT "For good players only"  but ok, to be fair the amount of lend lease tanks we used its forgivable. until late and post war we were behind in armour development historically.

 

the Royal Navy has THE most hotly anticipated lines in WoWS (Wargamings own words), to make the same mistake again cannot be a co-incidence and I can understand was some players are treating it as a blatant anglophobic insult by Wargaming. Now i am fully aware the British Cruisers were historically nothing special we had a lot of territory to patrol so our ships needed to be economically sustainable in both price and maintainability. the success of British cruisers came from their crews professionalism and courage. logically speaking British cruisers should be the true jack of all trade light cruiser line. they should be adequate enough to do everything but unless you are a good player and have a ship commander specced correctly you should not be able to excel in any particular role.

> adequate guns but not as far reaching or as good HE as a the FRPN, AP of a lesser quality of the Germans and lacking the gun size of the IJN and USN

> better stealth to counter the light armour but not a huge reliance on smoke to survive

> Adequete AA but not as powerful as the USN

> Adequete Torpedoes but not as powerful as the IJNs

While I can see how that by some standards could be read as 'a boring ship line' but I'd rather have a ship line (especially one as anticipated as this one what could have created a lot of new interest and brought back a lot of players who stopped playing) being easy and fun to use no matter your skill level if a little boring when you've 'mastered them' than the current "not advisable for new players" ideology Tuccy likes to ram down our throats

 

so as i said Wargaming was right to experiment with one of their ship lines, But they should have done it with a mash up national line or a nation that did not have a navy worth mentioning (Russians)

 

but its not like we'll actually get a response from Wargaming over this, they've made it quite clear that any feedback from the EU Forums is ignored or disregarded entirely

 

Edited by Mymeara
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[WOTN]
Quality Poster
2,088 posts
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I think it is far better if WG experiments with a premium ship first (i.e. Smith for the single launched torps) before they put a trait into a line. A better world would be one where WG first releases a Belfast or equivalent premium with the really gimmicky trait to see if it actually has a place in the game. If it has no place, they'll be able to save time that they would otherwise spend developing a line so niche that it alienates almost all of the prospective players and the premium will remain as a completely optional item like the Krispy Kreme. If it does have a place and neither overpowers all opposition or gets steamrolled by basically everything, then they can start to spend the time and effort to develop the line knowing that the players will come. I like odd ships, both the Pensacola and the York grew on me despite their initial peculiarities, I just think they should have experimented more extensively before turning a entire line into a single gimmick that barely works under most circumstances.

Edited by dasCKD

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Players
1,008 posts

I have said it before over the last couple of days. I think its far too early to judge weather what WG are trying to do, is right or wrong. I have enjoyed them a lot more today than yesterday. I think we need a month of solid data to judge how they actually perform. See how the stats look and then see how we all feel.

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I think it is far better if WG experiments with a premium ship first (i.e. Smith for the single launched torps) before they put a trait into a line. A better world would be one where WG first releases a Belfast or equivalent premium with the really gimmicky trait to see if it actually has a place in the game. If it has no place, they'll be able to save time that they would otherwise spend developing a line so niche that it alienates almost all of the prospective players and the premium will remain as a completely optional item like the Krispy Kreme. If it does have a place and neither overpowers all opposition or gets steamrolled by basically everything, then they can start to spend the time and effort to develop the line knowing that the players will come. I like odd ships, both the Pensacola and the York grew on me despite their initial peculiarities, I just think they should have experimented more extensively before turning a entire line into a single gimmick that barely works under most circumstances.

 

​There is no way they will experiment to that degree with a premium ship. A line like this is free, premium ships cost real money. They will not take such a risk with that. Fine, taking your point a little further, they could have released just the middle tiers, say the Danae, Emerald, Leander & Fiji and observed how they performed. That may have been better. Although just how you start a line at just tier 4 is another story. 

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[PORT]
Beta Tester, Players
170 posts
23,330 battles

If they wanted to try something original , why not HE only destroyers or AP only battleships.  Both could have been interesting concepts, that could probably work.  Conversly no one in their right mind would design AP only destroyers or HE only battleships.

 

As Mymeara said, cruisers are the Jack of all trades and RN CL's should be no different. In every other cruiser line, when AP won't hurt battleships, you switch to HE. You spot a destroyer, you select HE and blast away.  By limiting to one shell type, it's a bit like sending a boxer into the ring with one hand tied behind his back.

 

I'm not looking to turn this line into fire spitting monsters. Far from it. Why not allow HE with a low chance of fire. That way you can at least counter destroyers.  As the current line has a relatively low detection rate,  to balance having the HE shells, the line would loose access to the smoke consumable. 

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Beta Tester
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The early tiers of the RN are downright awfull.. add that to the fact that every "special person" wants them and the matches have been shambolic at best but hey its WG with their sekrit papers and sekrit russian logik.... :rolleyes:

 

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[WOTN]
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​There is no way they will experiment to that degree with a premium ship. A line like this is free, premium ships cost real money.

 

Creating a ship, even in context of a game, is not free either. A ship takes time, money, effort, and long testing to finish modeling, the level of detail on each ship as well as the graphical and shading tricks used to create the illusion of a astronomically higher polycount that is actually there is needed before they can put that ship in port. That isn't even considering the time it takes to correct armor models, graphical glitches, UV errors, imperfect meshes, and in-game integration. A lot of time and money goes into making a ship. The RN cruiser line isn't a ship, it's ten.

 

A line might be free for most of us, but it certainly isn't for WG and neither is it for some players. A line takes far more time and money to create than an entire ship. What WG is doing is essentially doing a game of cost-benefit. The ship line they create isn't free to them, and therefore they need to get a return for that investment. This comes in the forms of flags, premium time, premium consumables, credits, and free XP (a clanmate of mine went from Black Swan to Minotaur using nothing but free XP. That's 513850 free XP or 20 552 doubloons in conversion fees, 69.67 euroes which is higher than the purchase price of the most expensive premium ship in the game) which many players purchase even when playing a free tree. You get a premium ship with a one time payment, many players spends just as much if not more money than the price of a premium ship in their grind up the trees to make the gameplay more enjoyable or to improve their performance or to speed up the grind or for whatever other personal reason they have.

 

Ultimately a premium ship that no one buys costs them the time to create 1 ship with no returns. The economic drive here is not from the player's end however, it is from WG. Without the regular ship lines, most of the premium ships lose much of their worth. You don't need to grind credits as you'll never run a deficit. You don't need to retrain captains. You are fighting against the same ships all the time. You don't have anything to grind towards, except to play Warships for the sake of playing Warships which very few people would be willing to do. You say that a line like this is free, but it isn't. The simple fact is one botched premium will run a far smaller deficit than ten botched regular ships.

 

This British line has costed WG. They'll alienate prospective players who will be turned away by the negativity surrounding the community at the moment. They'll lose players who feel cheated whether from a perspective of gameplay, nationalism, pride, historical admiration, personal familial ties, or whatever else. Money has no ideology, and losing customers regardless of reason is bad for any business.

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[WOTN]
Quality Poster
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Fine, taking your point a little further, they could have released just the middle tiers, say the Danae, Emerald, Leander & Fiji and observed how they performed. That may have been better. Although just how you start a line at just tier 4 is another story. 

 

They could do that by releasing them as premium ships. Premium ships don't need a line, they can stand on their own. They can have testers play around with them, experiment, and work from there. One premium ship takes one ship's worth of effort to fix and adjust. They could even release the premium as a final reward for a long series of missions as in the case of the Emden and Kamikaze. They can catch issues with their experiments early and then work from there so their full line can be made as a solid line instead of a broken and punishing line that would likely need a complete overhaul, effectively giving them the workload of creating 20 ships instead of just 11 (the 10 regulars + an early testing premium). It simply makes better business, logistical, and logical sense to experiment with premiums instead of experimenting with whole lines. A Tirpitz doesn't inherently cost WG more than a Kurfurst just because you need real money to access the former.

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Players
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After getting to the Leander in a relatively painless way, I must say the tier 6 Leander is actually surprisingly good (albeit with a highly skilled captain). The lower tier ships were not particularly fun, I made sure I used every XP boost I could. The grind to the Fiji through the Leander is not half as bad as I thought it would be. To be fair to Wargaming, they acknowledged the playability of the line by giving everyone the chance to win a Campbeltown and a 12 point captain to aid players on their way once the main line appeared. I do think a bit of polish should be applied once the line has bedded in a bit and stats for the ships are available. 

 

I am interested to know when War Gaming are going to release HMAS Perth as I have a bit of a soft spot for the Leander now and would buy the Perth once it is available. I am an RN fan and have waited a long time for these ships, so playing a ship with White Ensign flying appeals over buffing my stats every time. I just want WG to make the RN line a fun experience for all players who choose to play them.

 

 

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Players
257 posts
350 battles

Yet another nonsense unbalanced poll. 

Grow up for goodness sake. It's a video game. 

 

 I understsand what wargaming were trying to do
 I can't comprehend it
 Please dont experiment with a full line again
 Experiment all you like, jyst fix it, if it goes bad

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Supertest Coordinator
6,336 posts
4,255 battles

Not a bad poll for garnering feedback from our community.

 

I like that most people are happy for WG to look at stats and rebalance on live.

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Beta Tester
139 posts
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Yet another nonsense unbalanced poll

 

Thankyou for your opinion tendered as a fact - That's unbalanced (mentally) my friend.

 

and you omitted to mention why you believe the poll is unbalanced which if course is ridicularse

Edited by Yaffle1234

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[B0TS]
Beta Tester
1,613 posts
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I don;t find the RN ships boring to drive - I find them frustrating.

 

The smoke/spam concept as a whole is flawed, couple that with very low survivability and unreliable shells...sheesh. Without the smoke you are dead, range is short, prime targets as they maximise incoming damage, Totally RNG dependent both on the offensive and on the defensive.

 

Experimentation is good - but FFS, you don't go live with an experiment that hasn't finished. If you want a fantasy capability then use fantasy ships to do it with.

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[HAERT]
[HAERT]
Quality Poster
1,666 posts
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Too few options available, so can't use this poll.

At present, despite them being hard to play, at least the tier VI-VII ships that I am currently mostly playing, are a lot of fun.

 

copy/paste from another post:

 

HMS Leander, HMS Fiji and HMS Belfast are my favourites for now..

True WW2 cruisers, with all kinds of neat tricks up their sleeves..

Think you've got me? HA! Take this smokescreen! (That I run out of cos I'm too fast.. trying to learn to slow down FIRST and THEN use smoke..)

Think you can hide from me? HA! Take my sonar/radar biatch! (Just caught a DD unawares, sitting still in smoke.. blammo!)

My first battles with HMS Fiji were all losses, despite doing up to 60 k dmg in some battles, which for me, while cruisering, is really quite excellent.

Just had a lucky streak, so ymmv..

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[SCRUB]
Beta Tester, In AlfaTesters
922 posts
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I gave up on them. I really ahve to admit, im a player that usually plays the underdogs and bad tanks/ships becasue i like the challange, but this .. this is no challange, this is jsut [edited]. Out of the last 15 game si got oneshot in 12 games. I struggle to do 1/3 of the dmg i have in equal tier ships and the survival rate is below 5%. Up to tier 6 i played them, but decided to free xp them becasue they where utter garbage. Now at tier 6 where people say its getting better, its just as bad. No chance ill touch these ships again. Thank you WG for this complete waste of gold and time. Worst content in the game by far.

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Weekend Tester
665 posts

Nice poll mate ignore ppl like The fear of all, he's nothing but a wee fanboy, seen him in a few forum's and all he do'es is put anything down the moans about wg, most of us here understand where you're coming from.

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Players
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Nice poll mate ignore ppl like The fear of all, he's nothing but a wee fanboy, seen him in a few forum's and all he do'es is put anything down the moans about wg, most of us here understand where you're coming from.

 

Clutching at straws there with a weak attempt.

This is the only forum I am a member of.

But by all means... Post up some links from forums where you have seen me being a fan boy.

:popcorn:

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Players
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this is our own faults myself included we all complained and complained for the royal navy until they were released . but now because of our complaints a line was released still in its beta form . i know most won't but i hope we all learn from this .beware what you wish for don't push just be patient .this line will be fixed but as i said we only have our selfs to blame. i'd be happy for them to remove smoke extend firing range increase muzzle velocity  and add he that would make for a better line (RULE BRITANIA ) 

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Supertest Coordinator
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In many ways this is IT in the 21st century. It's called "fail fast". Put something out there and see if it works. If it doesn't, fix it later.


This obviously has the benefit of getting good stuff out to market quickly but if there are problems the company gets bad PR.

Nice to know most people think this can be fixed. And really it can I think. Totally get the frustration factor.

 

But at least:

- it wasn't a patch which stopped the game working

- it's not affected existing content 

- it's not all broken

- problems can be fixed later

- it doesn't catch fire and burn your house down. 

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[BS4]
Players
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this is our own faults myself included we all complained and complained for the royal navy until they were released . but now because of our complaints a line was released still in its beta form

 

I don;t find the RN ships boring to drive - I find them frustrating.

 

 

 

 

Experimentation is good - but FFS, you don't go live with an experiment that hasn't finished. If you want a fantasy capability then use fantasy ships to do it with.

 

These I agree with... one is the product of the other....too much pressure to release a line that should have been thought about/tested in a closed environment before release. the end result is this shambles. Look the RN line isn't THAT BAD, Agreed it needs tweaking, as an example had a game this morn with the DANAE that had 5 Enemy bb,s, no amount of smoke , concealment gadgets or gizmos is gunna get you out of that one with only AP to rely on...(don't know where/who cooked up the idea of having only AP @152mm all the way up but seriously on what planet are you from? do you even play the game?:amazed:)  coupled with the fact that they are paper thin, that was never ever going to work?  maybe that was an intended insult now I come to think about it.:unsure:

 

 

If they Made 3 simple changes at lower tiers like...

 

1. more hp so we can actually take them in to battle or less damage taken visa versa (wouldn't need the repair party consumable then..) like the other cruser lines

2. Improve  that ridiculous fire arc

3. Give them HE to deal with bb,s dd 's (no over pen in the case of dd's) and other cruisers respectively.....you would have a pretty good RN line.

 

 

Edited by SeaWolf7
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Supertest Coordinator
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And you'd have a pretty fun cruiser line which still required skill. Yes I like those ideas. Obviously.

 

Heal and citadel problems I don't mind. Can leave that but:

- give Danae and probably Caledon smoke. Certainly Danae is just a suicide machine

- fix the guns. Either give he with no fire or small fire chance and/or fix the arcs and accuracy. 

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