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viceadmiral123

Does Carrier class need a buff to it's economy? Poll.

  

48 members have voted

  1. 1. Does Carrier class need a buff to it's economy?


21 comments in this topic

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Last thread was closed because it was "biased". Apparently a yes/no poll can be biased.

 

Vote in poll, post argument why you voted yes/no.

 

 

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Players
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Apparently you are not suppose to talk about CV economy.

Just don't play it and do what weeping-moaning-weekend players wants to.

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Weekend Tester
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CV not OP buff pls :aqua:

 

Edited by Geralt_z_Rivii365

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OP is asking about the economy, not the class itself.

 

Indeed, this topic is about the economic changes that came with 0.5.12.

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Weekend Tester
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OP is asking about the economy, not the class itself.

 

could you please explain?

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Players
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I dont know, because I dont play CVs, BUT ... I am wilth you guys, since I think CVs are vital part of the game and I like having them around.

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[TOXIC]
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could you please explain?

 

I can.

Economy of a ship is the whole set of rules determining:

 - the way XP is awarded (various actions are evaluated differently depending on what you sail in)

 - the way credits are awarded (as above)

 - cost of service

 - cost of various types of ammunition

 - ...and everything I might've forgotten and that affects XP accumulation and credits earning/spending. In this context: everything ship/class specific since we're not discussing overall economy but economy of CVs as a class

 

Buffing economy doesn't provide any in-match effects and, therefore, doesn't directly affect other ships, be it friendly or enemy (there are some possible exceptions where your place in the team matters - although this thread seems to be mostly if not exclusively about the credits economy, so these exceptions don't really apply here either). That makes such buffs/nerfs fundamentally different from actual ship buffs/nerfs - these, unlike economy changes - DO directly affect ship's performance in battle.

 

There is a possibility of indirect change of ship's performance through economy changes but that's only because different incentive system may produce different behavior of players. For example one might expect that if, for example, killing enemy aircraft granted carriers an insane 10 000 credits per craft, many CV players would focus on doing just that: taking air superiority loadout and going plane hunting. This, of course, is a hypothetical extreme scenario but I wanted to give an example of how properly designed reward system can incentivise certain behaviors while discouraging others - this, in fact, was the root of recent economy changes that aimed to reward better contribution of less obvious kind than just dealing damage.

 

Unfortunately, many people believe that the changes to carrier economy weren't well thought-out and/or well implemented and ended up with CVs being much less profitable/more wasteful (on high tiers, by design, you usually don't earn credits as much as minimize losses) than the other classes.

Edited by eliastion

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could you please explain?

 

-Repair costs (CV is most survivable ship, but now it pays for every game like everyone else, despite the fact that CV isn't really supposed to tank damage in most of the situations) 

-CV ammo costs (cost for lost aircraft, recently increased for most aircrafts)

-Reward of CV dealing damage to ships nerfed.

-Rewards for CV spotting and dropping enemy planes increased

 

In short, CVs have been the net losers in the recent economy revamp that was introduced with 5.12.

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Players
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Many exemples have been shown but here another one:

 

Hakuryu game:

 

shot-16.10.21_00.28.13-0238.jpg shot-16.10.21_00.28.16-0140.jpg shot-16.10.21_00.28.23-0808.jpg shot-16.10.21_00.28.27-0702.jpg

 

What I did: 

 

  • 265 537 damages
  • 208 952 spot damages
  • 43 planes
  • Confederate, High Caliber, Kraken, Confederate... I hit almost every ennemy. 

 

What I earn:

 

  • 2101 Xp
  • A benefit of 179 901 credits.

 

Yeah not so bad but let's take a closer look:

 

  • I have the elite league flag -20% Repair costs (36 000 credits less)
  • I have the India Bravo Terrathree sigal -10% Repair costs. (18 000 credits less)
  • I have a premium account +50% gains.

 

What I should earn without these enonomic buff: 

 

  • I put back both signal and flag, I go back with a repair cost of 180 000 credits. ( 54 000 repair costs more)
  • I dont have a premium account anymore.
  • 262 667 - 180 000 - 57 600 - 8000 - 22 500 = - 5 433 credits

 

Conclusion: Without my current buff and after a huge game on my CV I lost money. 

 

To my mind, I dont give a (...) about my money. I am one of the best CV players and I have more than enough credits. Tomorow I will remain a rich and a very effective CV. But when I think to the people who try to learn how to play CV or to all the new players who want to play these amazing ship, I feel terrible. Even the average guy who like to play CV for fun one or twice in a day will never use these ships anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[HULK]
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Class dead anyway co who care

Very True

And the quality of cv player is going down the toilet. Which is a good thing for my Strike Lex. Most games these days I get to sink ships at my pleasure 

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Players
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Its not only cred that needs buffing, its XP gain as well.
Idk what the hell WG did to CVs, but (as noted in HAKU game above), you basicly cannot be top scorer on your team.

2.1k base xp for 5 kills 265k damage etc? In any other ship that would be easy 3k base xp, but not in CV.

I've had t4 CV games (grinding IJN cvs now) where I did something like 150k damage on t4, where I got 4-6 kills in a game etc, only to find out that some guy is above me in xp earned? What did he do then in that game if I killed 6 of them and came 2nd? He killed 8 of them?
Its just nonsense...

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As far as im concerned the economy change might be the last nail to the coffin as far as CV gameplay goes for the average Joe.

 

CV's started as the most difficult class to work with, APM, tactical awareness and role wise. While I lack the beta tester badge I had the pleasure of playing this game in beta phase and I think ever since it could be played by anyone.

 

Patch after patch, nerf nerf nerf. 2 or 3 times they had to do something (torpedo acceleration skill, fighter strafe, 0.5.3 US DB rebalance) because something clicked (stats probably plummeted).

 

A dedicated player will work around that and continue as if nothing ever happened. I remember myself reading the forums listening to rants about nerfs. The only thing I felt was the need to play less sloppy to get the same results. Average Joe will feel that dreadfull feeling of not being able to do anything. Crushed between the anvill of insane ship AA and the hammer of a trollo lollo unicum CV player.

 

Oh I forgot to add. After meat grinding through that combination your team will call you names and report you for being a noob bot sky rat cancer clicker.

 

Finally after all that pleasure Joe see's the results screen.

 

I truely belive the devs are inspired by this movie as to how Joe is to be treated:

 

 

 

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could you please explain?

 

As simple as I can explain it, without having access to the raw modifiers that WG has put on each ship.

 

1. Carriers have the lowest income modifier. For the same action and result in the mach, a carrier will receive significantly less reward than other classes.

2. Gradual introduction of ships with above IJN level anti-air. Introduction of manual AA skill. Rebalancing the AA auras to increase the average DPM at max range.

3. Buffing fighters is a CV nerf.

4. As of patch 0.5.12.0:

 - further significantly reduced income modifiers for carriers;

 - technically increased repair cost of carriers by 80% (from a base of 100k to a flat 180k for t10);

 - increased cost of lost planes ;

 - carriers do not benefit from cap points and tanking damage rewards.

 

The end result is less carriers in games. Only the best players can consistently make credits or don't care about credits. The average player will be strongly discouraged to play in the current CV environment.

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Weekend Tester
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As simple as I can explain it, without having access to the raw modifiers that WG has put on each ship.

 

1. Carriers have the lowest income modifier. For the same action and result in the mach, a carrier will receive significantly less reward than other classes.

2. Gradual introduction of ships with above IJN level anti-air. Introduction of manual AA skill. Rebalancing the AA auras to increase the average DPM at max range.

3. Buffing fighters is a CV nerf.

4. As of patch 0.5.12.0:

 - further significantly reduced income modifiers for carriers;

 - technically increased repair cost of carriers by 80% (from a base of 100k to a flat 180k for t10);

 - increased cost of lost planes ;

 - carriers do not benefit from cap points and tanking damage rewards.

 

The end result is less carriers in games. Only the best players can consistently make credits or don't care about credits. The average player will be strongly discouraged to play in the current CV environment.

 

I still don't get it. Is there something I can do about it?

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I still don't get it. Is there something I can do about it?

 

I can help as far as I can with the things you don't understand. Then you will decide for yourself if there is something you can do about it.

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Weekend Tester
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I can help as far as I can with the things you don't understand. Then you will decide for yourself if there is something you can do about it.

 

I'm glad I could help you.

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Players
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Shameless reviving of the poll, since many active forumers may have missed it.

 

I got a reply for my ticket about the CV economy, in which I also included a link to this poll.

"...our teams will look into it, analyse the situation and take the appropriate measures if needed."

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