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Drunken_Jedi

Is the Belfast REALLY overpowered?

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Oh, what a controversial subject!

 

There can be no doubt that the Belfast has more gadgets and options than James Bond's Rolex with the unique ability of being able to field smoke, hydro AND radar at the same time. Brutal for DD captains to face and equally so for any cruiser who dares to show their broadside within 9km or so. This was demonstrated vividly by the community contributors such as Flamu who just absolutely decimated the enemy teams in his games (but honestly you could give him and Orlan and he'd find a way to win in a T10 game lol) and Notser who got a "Five minute Kraken" absolutely wrecking the enemy teams destroyer compliment. Completely broken! Overpowered! "British OP plz nerf" - never heard before in a Wargaming title where the Brits are usually put in the "mediocre and forgetful" category minus one of two exceptions.

 

Let's take a step back though, and really think this through. The Belfast doesn't have torpedoes, and since the Russian and German CA/CL lines came out it's become obvious to anyone with a brain that a cruiser line which has torpedoes will always have an advantage, especially if they can sneak up on unsuspecting BB's and utterly nuke them. The standard Royal Navy CL line is actually very good at this owed to their unique single launch option which in the hands of a good player is very potent indeed! Being able to launch a neat line of torpedoes is amazing and it mitigates all the RNG involved with the spread pattern from the normal wide and narrow options.

 

The Belfast relies ENTIRELY on the performance of it's guns. It doesn't have that "one shot" high alpha capability where it can unload four or more torpedoes into the side of a silly BB player and delete them instantly. It's a death by a thousand cuts, HE performance is quite strong and the AP is very good if someone is stupid enough to give you their side. But here's the thing, people are already becoming wise to the fact they can just charge right at you and not have to worry about torpedoes. This doesn't just apply for BB's but CA's too, they know that if they remain angled it's unlikely you will be able to melt them in time before they close to within spotting distance using hydro or radar at which point the "overpowered" Belfast becomes a very soft target indeed. The citadel stretches all the way from the fore turret along the waterline to the aft turret, even from within smoke I've been instantly deleted by a double citadel from BB's blind firing (even with moving fore and aft within smoke) due to the actual area of the smoke puffs being so limited because of it's very quick deployment time. 

 

I find you are also very reliant on your team mates to support you, especially against BB's who's huge HP pools can take a while to chew through with HE. Even if you score a couple of fires if they're smart with their damage control uses they can reduce that to fairly insignificant numbers and if it's a Bismarck have fun if you get spotted within 10km with those secondaries (say a DD screening ahead of it). Use AP? Of course, but the slightest angle causes a huge damage falloff even when hitting the superstructure.

 

All these factors together paint the picture of a very capable ship, but one lacking the high alpha or torpedoes who's effectiveness can be severely limited by competent play from opposing players. I've had a few games in the last few days playing solo where I've scored huge damage numbers, and carried as hard as I possibly could using all of my consumables (using premium and superintendent) but still only have a 30% win rate. There have also been a couple games where I've been instantly deleted by a double citadel right through the bow trying to remain neutral against enemy BB's while racing for cover. It's a very fragile ship!

 

This of course is in the context of solo play, a division of three of these or a BB, DD and a Belfast is a very potent combination since the ships strengths when tied to a team who are communicating in real time and can play will just multiplies it's effectiveness ten fold. It's my opinion though, that while it has it's role as the ultimate DD killer it will struggle against even half competent players who understand it's drawbacks means that the ship is not overpowered but in fact balanced by the popularity of BB's which will utterly destroy it if they land a hit anywhere on her.

 

I'm half expecting a bit of a roasting for saying this, but curious to read everyone else's thoughts now the ships been out a couple days and people have gotten to use her in a wider range of situations. Sorry for the wall of text!

Edited by Drunken_Jedi
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Probably correct and not a bad thing - if it was really that overpowered, It would spoil the game. Working my way up to playing it - want to play Fiji first - but looks fun.

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Good post, nicely delivered, have a +1

 

I sorely miss torpedoes, it has to be said. Still find myself stabbing that '3' expecting something good to happen. Me and Belfast just do not get along together, in fact the regular ships in the line suit me far better. Especially Leander.

 

One thing I would say needs fixing, for those of us who just cannot find our way around a keyboard, why are the consumables not uniformly placed for ALL ships? I can't be the only one who accidentally smokes up when I meant to hydro, or launch a plane instead.

 

Or am I?

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Get your concealment down to 8.7km then play a few games.

 

It's massively OP compared to everyone else.

 

Edit: 

So are Fiji and Edinburgh ...but they'll get nerfed after a month or too.

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Beta Tester
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Well now, on the first day/night I had at one point an 80% win rate...but after a few games where I became over confident that dropped to 70%. Second day it would appear many people have figured out that all RN cruisers(premium or not) are very squishy, citadel hits come from any angle as we all know by now makes these ships long to medium snipers or we make a quick visit to Davey Jones`s locker.

Is the Belfast OP?, hard to be definitive after a very short time...but if I had to answer I`d say not for long!

With a pocket full of James Bond toys, awesome games can be had, just like any other cruiser as well as awful games can be had too. 

Give it a week and almost everyone will have a handle on how counter the RN cruisers. Seems even average players are learning quickly.

 

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Good post, nicely delivered, have a +1

 

I sorely miss torpedoes, it has to be said. Still find myself stabbing that '3' expecting something good to happen. Me and Belfast just do not get along together, in fact the regular ships in the line suit me far better. Especially Leander.

 

One thing I would say needs fixing, for those of us who just cannot find our way around a keyboard, why are the consumables not uniformly placed for ALL ships? I can't be the only one who accidentally smokes up when I meant to hydro, or launch a plane instead.

 

Or am I?

 

I do that all the time! Keep hitting U for smoke but it's radar instead!! AAHHH

 

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I had a Tirpitz match yesterday where a pair of Belfasts decided to smoke up and hammer me. Between them and a battleship scoring a citadel thanks to being forced to break off to evade the Belfasts I was down from full health to maybe ~25% at most. OUCH.

 

Then I healed up a bit, reentered combat and sunk them both with citadel hits.

 

Belfasts are strong but squishy. Don't engage them in their own terms and you'll be OK.

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Get your concealment down to 8.7km then play a few games.

 

It massively OP compared to everyone else.

 

Edit: 

So are Fiji and Edinburgh ...but they'll get nerfed after a month or too.

 

I would agree with that, but honestly how many people have 15 point captains? Yes it probably does become a little OP at that point, but the same can be said for the Saipan and it's four aircraft fighter squads because of Air Supremacy. I would wager that a good 50% of the player base doesn't have a 15 point or higher captain simply because of the number of games it takes to level one up to that standard. I've yet to get a 15 point captain on any of my ships, but I guess that's mainly because I play a wide variety instead of focusing on a single ship/line.

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Totally agree with you  HMS Belfast is NOT op at all.  ,  Flamu has over 6000+ games to his credit and a pro where as me 1100 games and STILL learning (average to crap player) so in my hands as probaly many

Belfast is just a good ship , yes with lots of toys but still only good and not OP as everybody is screaming about.

It depends on who is playing her.

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If the reference point personal performance in cruisers, it is op. I can do significantly more damage with belfast than any other. However I have driven only small amount of cruisers.

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I like it. BUT ... it is receiving a lot of attention. If the enemy sees you in one expect a swarm of shells incoming within seconds. So, yes it is strong, but it also gets focused a lot.

 

Also a good team (division probably) can counter Belfast ... any radar ship attached to BB can spot Belfast in smoke easy.

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f99.jpg

 

 

 

@ that genius who posted the warships.today table:

Did you know that the Atago ranks below the Mogami at warships.today? Clearly the Mogami is the stronger ship.    ........ and stop posting huge images, because it breaks the forum overlay, FFS.

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I think Belfast has a good potential to be OP in the right circumstances, but there is ways to counter it and if i doesnt have smoke up its the easiest ship to punish in the game, 2-3 hits from a BB in any angle takes of 80% HP!

 

I would say its pretty equal to the Kutuzov if you dont count the DD killing possibilitys with radar. Both ate smoke protected firespammers, One uses radar to be safe and other uses greater range. As someone said, if enemy cruiser charges smoke Belfast is done.

 

And another thing most peaople seem to forget. Its easy to judge a ship just by watching CC playing them and getting OP results, but what people seem to forget is how many games did it take for Flamu or Notser to get those great games they uploaded? You never get to see the fail ones?

 

That said it sure has good potential but i think it still needs a good captain to get those 1 in 1000 games. Many noobs will fail in this ship. 

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Good post, nicely delivered, have a +1

 

I sorely miss torpedoes, it has to be said. Still find myself stabbing that '3' expecting something good to happen. Me and Belfast just do not get along together, in fact the regular ships in the line suit me far better. Especially Leander.

 

One thing I would say needs fixing, for those of us who just cannot find our way around a keyboard, why are the consumables not uniformly placed for ALL ships? I can't be the only one who accidentally smokes up when I meant to hydro, or launch a plane instead.

 

Or am I?

 

It is not just you hitting the '3' key and then expecting there to be torpedos - even did a torpedorun on a BB, boy was I surprised when nothing happened (had just played in the Leander the game before and used that ships torps) fortunately I was able to get of some salvos while doing a 16 point turn(180 degrees) and running to cover behind an island and a smokecloud then having to comsume the entirety of that day's ration of rum in order to calm my nerves.:teethhappy:
Edited by atomskytten
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It'S strong, but not OP.

Really good players will do really good in it, 'cause so many options.

Really bad players will do really bad in it, 'cause too many options,

Inbetweeners will inbetween...

 

Met a couple Belfasts with different of my ships today and didn't see one getting played that I would have thought of it - or it's player - as OP.

 

In fact, in one battle I valiantly charged a cap in which a DD and a Belfast were lurking in my Nürnberg. Shortly after the DD had been sunk by me, the Belfast ran away lacking ~16k HP and my ship got sunk by one of the four BB that entered the fight soon after it had started. No torpedoes were used in that fight by me...

 

Op? Nah... only very good in the right hands. As are so many other ships.

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Jesus Christ, you can sink it with one salvo, so stop crying. Smoke area is really small, so just shoot in the middle and you will score. Damn snowflakes, stop crying all the time.

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HMS Belfast is super squishy, especially as she doesn't have heal or torpedoes, like the ships in the regular light cruiser branch.

If the enemy stays at range, she can be taken out pretty quickly.

Smoke isn't going to help her and although she can maintain speed during a turn, her top speed isn't very high.

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Jesus Christ, you can sink it with one salvo, so stop crying. Smoke area is really small, so just shoot in the middle and you will score. Damn snowflakes, stop crying all the time.

 

The same applies to any other cruiser really.

 

HMS Belfast is super squishy, especially as she doesn't have heal or torpedoes, like the ships in the regular light cruiser branch.

If the enemy stays at range, she can be taken out pretty quickly.

Smoke isn't going to help her and although she can maintain speed during a turn, her top speed isn't very high.

 

Neither other non Brit T7 cruisers have heal, while torps are situational at best in other ships - either awkward firing angles (Myoko) or short range limiting use to close and personal moments.

If enemy stays at range, simply stop firing to engage your klingon device and wait for opportunity to close in, negating Clevelandish ballistics.

Only Myoko and Shchors have top speed considered "high", that is around 35knots.

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Guys ... cmon ... its a nice "collectable". I dont intend to play RN for some time and I feel good having her in the port.

I will probably take her to the training room to master it ... had couple of good and bad games with it in random. 

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Id say its a majoy annoyance. OP, maybe. But only if someone knows how to play it.

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Personally I do not find it OP at all, it's as squishy as the other brit cruisers. It has a few extra bells and whistles but I think all the hype about it being totally OP is just that, whiny hype. The way everyone complained about it being OP was so severe that when I went into my first few games I thought I'd be like the yamato in tier 7, but I wasn't and the ship takes damage very quickly if you make a single mistake. It's not very forgiving at all. Nice ship to play but you are very aware of where you are and are not allowed to go when the game begins.

Edited by Shaka_D
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