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HMS_Antelope

Enough is enough!

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[RALLY]
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Hello Captains

 

I had hoped with the glorious Royal Navy cruisers we would have some balance to the force/game.  Unfortunately the usual has happened where the opportunity has come to earn some cheap kills and the age of the Battleships has dawned, again.  Yes it is World of Battleships.......

 

Rather than invest time in a tricky to play ship it is far easier to play lets delete the cruiser.

 

So I think it is time to force a better balance on this great game of ours and review the MM to +1 -1 and have a quota of ship types in the game, even though this would increase waiting times.

 

I was just in a game with 10 Battleships and nine Cruisers after 5 minutes it was 10 Battleships and two Cruisers.  The first seven kills in the game were on Cruisers, yep no great surprise.

 

I love playing Cruisers and love the British line but some games just aren't a lot of fun, I would love to see balance not buffs enter the game, I want the seal clubbing days to be reduced/over and limited to skill rather than type and tier.

 

Perhaps a +-1 for the Cruiser, after all a ninja IJN T5 dd is still a ninja at T7, maybe just let the Battleships stay with the +-2.

 

What say you all mighty Captains?

 

Happy Trafalgar day

 

Image result for trafalgar day

 

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[SCRUB]
Beta Tester
773 posts
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My expectation on opening this thread was oh no not another rant.

 

But actually, that kinda works.

 

Wg set out on a dangerous path a long time ago.

First there was the rudder shift buff for bb. Then aft nerf, torpedoes detection nerf, then the introduction of bbs with hydro and insane secondaries. Finally, a range of cruisers with no he capability.

 

Bbs are wows on easy for sure.

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[DREAD]
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Works for me, as a cruiser player, but nobody at WG will see this, unfortunately 

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Apparently nobody knew that you cannot force out a BB heavy meta with releasing a CL line?

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As a BB driver I have to agree it is a problem. I know my targets of choice are cruisers and I am very good at killing them.

You cannot have cruisers in a BB heavy game. If they stay with the BBs and try to provide AA support or shield from DDs they are targeted instantly and killed. Their only way to survive is to sit in a corner or maneuver wildly which makes them "useless".

 

The solution is not buffing cruisers or nerfing BBs.

 

The solutions I can see are in the map design, providing more cover for cruisers and fewer opportunities for BBs to get a clear shot at them

 

or

 

changing the team composition.

 

If you have cruisers in a match then there should be no more then 2 (3) BBs. Now cruisers and destroyers can come out and play while the BBs play more of a supporting role.

 

If you have more than 2 (3) BBs then the only other ships should be DDs and CVs. This is now a match where the battle lines fight it out while the rest of the team is scouting and providing DD protection.

 

Any other composition leaves cruisers as dead meat.

 

 

 

 

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[SCRUB]
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Juuuust give the RN cruisers HE. Even a low dmg HE ... just give them something to shoot at BBs.

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[RALLY]
Players
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As a BB driver I have to agree it is a problem. I know my targets of choice are cruisers and I am very good at killing them.

You cannot have cruisers in a BB heavy game. If they stay with the BBs and try to provide AA support or shield from DDs they are targeted instantly and killed. Their only way to survive is to sit in a corner or maneuver wildly which makes them "useless".

 

The solution is not buffing cruisers or nerfing BBs.

 

The solutions I can see are in the map design, providing more cover for cruisers and fewer opportunities for BBs to get a clear shot at them

 

or

 

changing the team composition.

 

If you have cruisers in a match then there should be no more then 2 (3) BBs. Now cruisers and destroyers can come out and play while the BBs play more of a supporting role.

 

If you have more than 2 (3) BBs then the only other ships should be DDs and CVs. This is now a match where the battle lines fight it out while the rest of the team is scouting and providing DD protection.

 

Any other composition leaves cruisers as dead meat.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi

 

I think they are really good points, I like to play all lines well maybe all except Carriers which I'm not so keen on.  I just lost in a T8 match playing Molotov after getting hit by 2/3 shells, it's just rubbish as the game needs Cruisers in it, I don't want to sit in smoke from 18k spamming HE either.

 

I pay a lot of money to play the game but I'm finding my enthusiasm starting to drift a little, maybe if they refunded the money I have spent on Cruisers and T5/6 ships in general as those tiers are broken too.

 

I like the development that goes into the game but they need to listen, the hype around Belfast has been predictability over hyped and all those people who thought the game would be broken should remember its just a Cruiser and Cruisers suck in World of Battleships.

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Beta Tester
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I pay a lot of money to play the game but I'm finding my enthusiasm starting to drift a little, maybe if they refunded the money I have spent on Cruisers and T5/6 ships in general as those tiers are broken too.

 

Same here. I hardly use my Murmansk now as all I end up in is T7 matches. Before the AFT nerf,  being in T7 every now and then was no big deal at all.

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[PORT]
Modder
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Or let's make torpedoes twice as fast, so IJN-DDs and Torpedobombers have an impact on BB-population again. :trollface:

 

Or leave everything as it is, when most players want to be BBs, the devs would not change meta in their own interest.

Edited by Smeggo

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[RALLY]
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I think if most people wanted to play BB I would say ok but I think a lot of us enjoy the play style of Cruisers and also maybe Battle cruisers more in the future.  I hope they don't mess around with the shells, torps etc and just change the MM some how.  I hope they look at this soon because today has been awful for Cruiser MM. 

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I think +2 match making has been a flawed concept for a long time. It always means that a sizeable proportion of the team are nothing but free kills and XP for the players sailing the top tier ships. The gaps in performance are huge between just tiers VI and VII nevermind matching some poor bastard in a tier V say an Omaha or Emerald (or even a Kongo) up with the likes of Gneisenau and Scharnhorst with those guns and torpedoes any competent player would wipe the floor with them. It's the same in World of Tanks and in some ways even more ridiculous (fighting IS-3's in a Cromwell - lol). At least the map design isn't quite as awful as WoT's it's just a corridor shooter for the hordes of brain dead heavy players. Unfortunately with the supremacy of BB's still going strong I can foresee Warships headed in the same direction. 

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Beta Tester
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Basic team should look about like this:

1 (0) CV

2 (3) BB

5 Cruiser

4 DD

 

The value in () should only be used when there's no CV in the MM queue.

 

MM should be hardcoded to give preference to such teams.

If, after a waiting time, no more basic teams can be assigned to battles and there's still ships to assign they should end up in teams consisting only of their own class. So BBs will only face BBs, Cruisers will only face Cruisers and DDs will only face DDs. The number of ships in these teams could be lower than twelve.

This should assure that people will pay attention to what classes seem to be overly present in the MM and hopefully make them change to a different class.

 

This would ensure that:

 

  • BBs could still continue to whine about "too many" whatevers in game when they end up in basic teams
  • Cruisers would have enough targets to sink
  • DDs would have to look for other targets than only straightlinesailing BBs
  • BBs (as the most flooded class in game) would have to fight against their peers. Which would make them probably a lot more uncomfortable than Cruisers that would have to fight only other Cruisers or DDs that would have to fight only other DDs.

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[RALLY]
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I think as Cruiser players we need to become highly skilled at killing Battleships then maybe they will join the ranks.  At least that will be quicker than WG changing the MM.

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[HAERT]
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I think part the problem is accuracy and manoeuvrability.

Right now cruisers are temporarily more popular, due to the RN light cruiser line having been released, but that will pass.

Cruisers are, imho, hard to play, with little reward.

I am admittedly below average when playing cruisers, I can dodge and weave all I want, I still get hit and often just don't last long enough to do enough damage.

I think this can be fixed by reducing the chance of a hit depending on how much you've changed course and/or speed between shells being fired and landing.

If that leads to cruisers becoming too effective/hard to kill, then reduce their firepower a little.

 

But yeah, a forced ratio of CV to BB to CA to DD, as well as a proper mix of gun DDs/torpedo DDs and heavy versus light cruisers, could help.

WG based this game on the assumption that it would be rock-paper-scissors.

But it has turned into Rock-rock-rock-rock-scissors, with very little paper.

 

Another problem is, people don't support each other/don't play their role.

Cruisers go too far forward, battleships stay too far in the back, resulting in the cruisers dying quickly and the battleships being without escorts.

Something to encourage players to play the role that fits their type of ship best, would probably help too.

 

And I may be biased, as I am a huge battleship nut, but I think I am by no means the only one here.

Battleships are just awesome.

So this will always be World of Battleships, unless something is done to make other ship types at least as attractive and/or the MM enforces balanced teams.

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Players
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I find it hard to understand how a light cruiser with destroyer level AP and no HE ammo will somehow change anything in the meta. A few more smoke stacks here and there maybe.

Fun fact of the day: you can get consistent citadel hits on Danae with destroyer HE.

 

 

Edited by viceadmiral123

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[BLOBS]
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I think part the problem is accuracy and manoeuvrability.

Right now cruisers are temporarily more popular, due to the RN light cruiser line having been released, but that will pass.

Cruisers are, imho, hard to play, with little reward.

I am admittedly below average when playing cruisers, I can dodge and weave all I want, I still get hit and often just don't last long enough to do enough damage.

I think this can be fixed by reducing the chance of a hit depending on how much you've changed course and/or speed between shells being fired and landing.

If that leads to cruisers becoming too effective/hard to kill, then reduce their firepower a little.

 

But yeah, a forced ratio of CV to BB to CA to DD, as well as a proper mix of gun DDs/torpedo DDs and heavy versus light cruisers, could help.

WG based this game on the assumption that it would be rock-paper-scissors.

But it has turned into Rock-rock-rock-rock-scissors, with very little paper.

 

Another problem is, people don't support each other/don't play their role.

Cruisers go too far forward, battleships stay too far in the back, resulting in the cruisers dying quickly and the battleships being without escorts.

Something to encourage players to play the role that fits their type of ship best, would probably help too.

 

And I may be biased, as I am a huge battleship nut, but I think I am by no means the only one here.

Battleships are just awesome.

So this will always be World of Battleships, unless something is done to make other ship types at least as attractive and/or the MM enforces balanced teams.

 

​They are not. After germ BB release the lines were cloged with the new BBs... 1st weekend after release and you see hardly many RN CL. Im at t6 with then and i get the feeling its geting better but the low end grind IS horible. With Emerals you need 2 times smoke to do 10-20% damage to a BB. No BB is stupid enogh to come withing 6km were you can use Torps and you can be ended in one Salvo from any angle, I can understand why prople find that kind of gameplay frustrating. without HE and fire you can never get close in damage to a Murmask and co since hrying to hurt BBs is a waste of time and you even suck vs DDs. What really is left? Yes killing Cruisers and that works resonable but do we need another anti CA/CL shipline atm? like i said in another post they would have done themself a service if they would have released the real Heros of the Royal Navy: Their DDs.

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[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
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"more popular"? Not in my matches... :hmm:

 

More popular than they usually are. Although the effect seems visible in tiers 2-4, not really past that.

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[RALLY]
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I was just in a match with the RN T6, it was a mixture of T8-6 which for some reason is normal for today being usually -2 in my cruisers of any nation.  Because it was the map where the dd's go through the middle (can't remember the name) I couldn't shoot for ages because if i closed to firing range I would be deleted straight away.  I had to creep round one side and eventually could engage when the enemy pressed forward.  This isn't exciting game play as you cant' risk the RN Cruisers at sub 13k range because you will die.

 

We also had a division of 2 x bb and a dd go through the gap, they failed and I ended up with a -2 karma dip because everyone was salty due to insta loss from the stupid division, I had taken a long time to get to 50, oh well need to shut up on chat I guess.

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More popular than they usually are. Although the effect seems visible in tiers 2-4, not really past that.

 

It depends, as people are still grinding, but in some battles, I encounter several HMS Belfasts, or HMS Fijis, while at the lower tiers, I've noticed a lot of RN cruisers..

I used a lot of free XP to get to HMS Fiji, not everyone has that available, or wants to spend that.

Personally, I'm grinding towards HMS Edinburgh.

But that was not my main point and not sure this is really on topic..

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[RALLY]
Players
309 posts
8,109 battles

I think part the problem is accuracy and manoeuvrability.

Right now cruisers are temporarily more popular, due to the RN light cruiser line having been released, but that will pass.

Cruisers are, imho, hard to play, with little reward.

I am admittedly below average when playing cruisers, I can dodge and weave all I want, I still get hit and often just don't last long enough to do enough damage.

I think this can be fixed by reducing the chance of a hit depending on how much you've changed course and/or speed between shells being fired and landing.

If that leads to cruisers becoming too effective/hard to kill, then reduce their firepower a little.

 

But yeah, a forced ratio of CV to BB to CA to DD, as well as a proper mix of gun DDs/torpedo DDs and heavy versus light cruisers, could help.

WG based this game on the assumption that it would be rock-paper-scissors.

But it has turned into Rock-rock-rock-rock-scissors, with very little paper.

 

Another problem is, people don't support each other/don't play their role.

Cruisers go too far forward, battleships stay too far in the back, resulting in the cruisers dying quickly and the battleships being without escorts.

Something to encourage players to play the role that fits their type of ship best, would probably help too.

 

And I may be biased, as I am a huge battleship nut, but I think I am by no means the only one here.

Battleships are just awesome.

So this will always be World of Battleships, unless something is done to make other ship types at least as attractive and/or the MM enforces balanced teams.

 

Its a good point but I don't think the Cruisers are in much greater number than before but definately more of them.  It's funny how Battleship drivers prioritise the Cruisers first, a bit like the New Orleans gets focused on, the RN has a target painted on every ship.

 

I personally find them very rewarding but also very difficult to play.  I think the RNG of German ships is actually helping them, a good dodge and you catch the stray shell for big damage, it's keeps happening to me anyway.

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