Guide: British Cruisers

[von_Boeg]

I still cant believe they screwed up the RN , this is very poor from WG and they will lose a lot players over this debacle, if it isn't addressed ASAP!

 

What I would like to know is the thinking process behind this cruser line.

 

I am sure WG know full well the sheer amount of interest there has been for the RN, so how did they decide that it was a good idea to make the line very difficult to play? Now I assume we will never get a straight answer, but it would be very itneresting to have been a fly on the wall when they decided this.

[Capra76]

 

What I would like to know is the thinking process behind this cruser line.

 

I think MTM gave a big hint when he said a while back that the changes were being driven by (presumably BB) players on the RU server complaining about fire being the worst thing in the game ever (after CV and torpedo soup obviously).

 

So I think what happened was the original concept was a line of USS Flint style ships with relatively weak guns but a huge ROF that could use smoke to burn BB into the ground whilst staying undetected, but also a line that was going to be fragile and not much use against anything else.

 

The problem as I see it is that late in the development (i.e. after version 1 went out for testing) the developers lost their nerve/caved in to the BBabies and tried to turn them into AP focused ships (in the space of a few days) but they've not done a very good job of it and the AP isn't good enough to make up for the lack of HE.

 

I'm not sure any AP only cruiser was ever going to work in a BB heavy meta, because if they're going to penetrate well angled BB armour (which they need to do) then they'll absolutely murder any other CA/CL in the game, and I don't see how you can balance that.

[IanH755]

I'm guessing it was after the RU BBabies cried so it was done as a "last minute on a Friday afternoon" decision when everyone wanted to leave work for the weekend but they couldn't until a decision was made so they picked the first stupid idea and will now stick to it regardless.

 

This forum has already had about 20 better ideas for the line other than "Durrr, AP Good, HE Bad, No Give HE No More so BB now happy"

[philjd]

 

So I think what happened was the original concept was a line of USS Flint style ships with relatively weak guns but a huge ROF that could use smoke to burn BB into the ground whilst staying undetected, but also a line that was going to be fragile and not much use against anything else.

 

Corrected for you

[DarthB0B0]

 

I was able to do just fine against DD's when I was testing the ships. The RN AP shells have a special 2 setting fuse mechanism that allows them to arm and detonate even when striking lightly armored targets, thereby reducing the chance of overpenetrations

 

If you pay attention to the map and use your excellent concealment to your advantage, you can easily avoid close encounters with most battleships, I am much more scared of CA's.

 

 

 

so below Ev1n suggests that you did not want a boring predictable class here. So explain to me how lurking in shadows hoping for someone to get careless or having to run away because they see you and focus is anything but predictable mindless play? Situational and one dimensional is not exciting. I have enough battles in Atlanta to feel that the moon has taken enough of my shells such that I will not bother our poor abused satellite any longer.... I hsve also done far too much lurking in that particular Paper kitten to warrant no interest in any derived play style that follows that formula. Give us aggressive, give us a more balanced MM make up, lets have some more CV, fewer BB and a fair number of cruiser and DD. Why bring out a line that positively encourages BB?

 

And as for being DD hunters... First battle against a Leander in my Mutsui decide to have a go and aim directly at him from 7K out. I got all the way to 3K before I was damaged (in an IJN DD just wt.). Only then because his secondaries set a fire. The irony.. I was going to ram him as everything else was bouncing off me and just because i could but he got deleted by someone else.

 

Now, whether this approach should have been taken with this particular piece of content is an entirely different question - this one purely philosophical. 

 

I guess we'll just make sure that British Battleships don't require any effort and are as boring as afternoon tea. 

 

But the Elephant in the room is that the choice of content is almost Entirely the question. There are many other branches why this one? That is the unanswered question. Firstly this is a huge gamble regardless of the line, it could have been another paper (unamed country of your choice here) line but to pick RN's first line????

 

If you wanted to give the conspiracy theorists more ammo well done. To be honest after however long with WG (closed beta of Tanks so over 5 years?) I never believed the nonsense and was just annoyed that yet again the Brits were in for a bashing, but really, it's incredibly hard to argue for balance on WG's part in the face of this.

 

Over to you....

 

 

Wanted to do a bit of philosophical/historical article about the complaints about the ships themselves (basically "do not blame us, blame designers, RN always built for budget and numbers") - maybe I would, later, but generally... Royal Navy cruisers are not usually renowned because of their technical qualities, but because of the feats of their crews - represented in game for example by the repair ability or by the ship handling. And, of course, by the players themselves.

 

 

I know this has been said elsewhere but Historical accuracy? If you want to say we think they were crap so made them crap say so.... When what they were renowned for was their versatility, as has also been said we were expecting a line that would have it's own flavour and not be spectacular. Not one that couldn't decide what falvours to use threw the recipe book out of the window, remembered that they had a dinner party to cater for and got the decorator in to do the cooking.

[Chiledip]

 

What I would like to know is the thinking process behind this cruser line.

 

 

This is only a theory, impossible to tell exactly what medication may have been necessary to implement this line.

 

Maybe these highly skilled BB players wanted a ship that couldn't hurt them at all if they stayed angled. However they wanted a ship that could still cause damage to those who sail broadside alongside a smoke screen. They needed a special ship, one that rewards genius BB play and punishes poor BB play. So they introduced a new class, the Royal Navy potato-masher! Now the BB meta is absolutely perfect, extra food for all BBs except those who are completely incompetent.

 

However all aspiring BB skippers deserve a chance don't they. WG have shown great insight and ensured that the potato-mashers will give the poor BBs plenty of opportunity to find his WASD keys before too much damage is done. This has been achieved by equipping the mashers with guns which resemble mortars that scatter shells everywhere except for where they were aimed. Lowering the velocity of the mashers' guns was looked at and may have to be implemented if too many BBs are damaged.

 

World of Battleships got a really positive buff today, those who intend to play that game in the future must be very excited. For the rest of us...................... well I guess that doesn't matter!

[SeaMonsterUK]

 

so below Ev1n suggests that you did not want a boring predictable class here. So explain to me how lurking in shadows hoping for someone to get careless or having to run away because they see you and focus is anything but predictable mindless play? Situational and one dimensional is not exciting. I have enough battles in Atlanta to feel that the moon has taken enough of my shells such that I will not bother our poor abused satellite any longer.... I hsve also done far too much lurking in that particular Paper kitten to warrant no interest in any derived play style that follows that formula. Give us aggressive, give us a more balanced MM make up, lets have some more CV, fewer BB and a fair number of cruiser and DD. Why bring out a line that positively encourages BB?

 

And as for being DD hunters... First battle against a Leander in my Mutsui decide to have a go and aim directly at him from 7K out. I got all the way to 3K before I was damaged (in an IJN DD just wt.). Only then because his secondaries set a fire. The irony.. I was going to ram him as everything else was bouncing off me and just because i could but he got deleted by someone else.

 

 

But the Elephant in the room is that the choice of content is almost Entirely the question. There are many other branches why this one? That is the unanswered question. Firstly this is a huge gamble regardless of the line, it could have been another paper (unamed country of your choice here) line but to pick RN's first line????

 

If you wanted to give the conspiracy theorists more ammo well done. To be honest after however long with WG (closed beta of Tanks so over 5 years?) I never believed the nonsense and was just annoyed that yet again the Brits were in for a bashing, but really, it's incredibly hard to argue for balance on WG's part in the face of this.

 

Over to you....

 

 

I know this has been said elsewhere but Historical accuracy? If you want to say we think they were crap so made them crap say so.... When what they were renowned for was their versatility, as has also been said we were expecting a line that would have it's own flavour and not be spectacular. Not one that couldn't decide what falvours to use threw the recipe book out of the window, remembered that they had a dinner party to cater for and got the decorator in to do the cooking.

 

With all things said, I'm still waiting for Wargaming to admit they fouled up on the British Cruiser line. But that'll never happen.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

Ok, I'm a slightly above average player.

My personal preferences considering ship classes are: 1. DD 2. BB 3. Cruiser 4. CV

 

The RN cruisers remind me of the russian DDs, with the problem of the low tiers lacking smoke to adjust for the crappy armour.

 

In the spoiler, I show the stats I achieved on the different cruisers I played from T1 to T4. And I think, the values aren't dramatically out of the ordinary for the RN cruisers. At least not so, that some slight adjustments could make them more enjoyable.

 

Tier 1

Ship                 avg. damage              avg. kills/battle    # of Battles    Winrate

 

Erie                 22.287                        1.60                    5                    20 %
Orlan              17.046                        1.93                   15                   67 %
Hermelin         16.543                        2.10                   10                   30 %
Hashidate       13.134                        1.00                   5                     80 %
Black Swan     11.503                        2.00                   1                    100 %

---

Tier 2

Ship                 avg. damage/battle    avg. kills/battle    # of Battles    Winrate

 

Dresden          22.152                       1.00                     5                    80 %
Chikuma          20.071                       1.10                    10                   90 %
Emden             19.897                       0.89                    28                   54 %
Weymouth       17.135                       0.60                    5                     60 %
Chester           15.646                       0.40                    10                   30 %
Albany             15.478                       1.19                    36                   53 %

---

Tier 3

Ship                 avg. damage/battle    avg. kills/battle    # of Battles    Winrate

 

Katori               37.143                       1.35                    106                56 %
St. Louis          33.243                       1.49                    133                54 %
Caledon          27.024                        0.90                   10                   50 %
Tenryu            23.794                        1.40                    10                  80 %
Kolberg          18.666                        1.00                     15                 73 %

---

Tier 4

Ship                 avg. damage/battle    avg. kills/battle    # of Battles    Winrate

 

Phoenix           44.515                       1.45                    20                   65 %
Kuma              31.429                       1.05                    20                   50 %
Yuubari           31.077                       1.04                    292                 56 %
Karlsruhe        21.570                       0.63                   30                    63 %
Danae             21.454                       0.75                   16                   56 %

 

Notes:

• I've been playing since Beta. So the data for some T3 and T4 ships (Yuubari, St. Louis, Phoenix and Kuma) which I have played a LOT during beta seems to reflect the experience I've got with them.
• The Katori is imho extremely OP
• I didn't play most russian cruisers, as the concept wasn't very tempting to me. So I free-exp'ed up to T5
• RN, german and russian cruisers share one problem: they were released later in the game. So right after release, when most people started playing them, battles consisted of usually up to 10 of these cruisers and only very few other ships. So there is no real chance to find out how they handle in a normal battle, with a normal number of cruisers (and other ships) from all nations.

 

 

From my personal stats I deduce that one of the greatest problems of the low tier RN cruisers is the fact, that they nearly exclusively meet other RN cruisers in battles. With special penetration AP getting shot at very low armour, you get crappy results all over the battle. Then, after playing several/many battles against equally equipped ships the players end up at a tier, where suddenly the cruisers of other nations show up, too. And there are more than maybe one or two BBs. And suddenly all what people "learned" during the first two/three tiers doesn't work anymore... and boom, the RN cruisers are total crap...

 

Add to that the possibility, that many players complaining about the RN cruisers lack experience with similiar ballistic guns (like US DDs, Cleveland etc.) or even came from playing other classes nearly exclusively, to suddenly find out that a RN cruiser doesn't handle like a BB at all.

 

And add to that, that today it is a quite usual habit to jump on the whine train in a forum. Read in the forum how crappy the RN cruisers are, play a battle or two and don't have a field day and - boom! - jump on the whine train and agree to all the other - often hastily made - opinions.

 

I think some people should rather take a deep breath. Then leave the RN cruisers be for a while, until the flood is over. And then try them again. Not only for a battle or two, but for some more, so you can really form your own opinion, instead of just repeating what is said in the forum or by those all-knowing blogging heroes.

 

And, as stated before, if the stats show the RN cruisers really are as crappy as so many people are made to believe, there very probably will be made some changes. Happened before with other ships, will surely happen again.

[Lord_Holland_of_Wessex]

Island hopping and using smoke between, seems a way to stay alive, torps for damage.  Still learning.  Need to focus on everything so much as one mistake and you can be deleted.  Not for Rookies this line that's for sure.  At Leander at the mo, they seem to be getting better as I go up the tiers.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

So, a little feedback from me, after few more games. Bear in mind my observations are only for tier VI - VIII
Gameplay:

Overall - excellent. It's a mashup of three powerfull playstyles that we we're used to. Limited range and bad ballistics force you to play aggressively - similar to US cruisers. You perform typical roles, aggressive scouting due to excellent concealment. The very powerfull advantage is the accelaration of those vessels. It's insane. After the game starts you can zoom to favourable postion on par with DD's. Once you're there, you can either surprise an unsuspecting DD with few nice salvoes, or torp crucial point and pepper slower ships that still travels into position. Additional, if you are covered from main enemy fleet, and encounter a lone cruiser, you can sneak up on him due to excellent camo, open up with two - three devastating salvoes and then hid in smoke to finish him off, as long as it is spotted by someone else. This is the main advantage this line has over US cruisers - you don't have to rely on vanishing due to concealment after initial encounter, you can pop smoke and still deal damage/retreat if necessary. Powerfull AP, coupled with carefull aiming provides enough DPS, even on angled targets, that your damage becomes significant and numbers begin to mount up. Relying on AP ammo only is similar to GE cruisers. Although it's obviously a flaw, it is small enough to not cripple your damage potential. Although you need to know where to shoot, and that requires taking some time and experimenting with lead, both horizontal and vertical. Fast RoF is similar with RU cruisers. However, when they rely on HE damage coupled with fires, AP only on RN is a distinct difference and has it's own advantages. 
The mentioned cruisers demand different playstyle, a combination of DD cunning and CA/CL aggression, target prioritising and positioning. The last one is crucial! You need to plan your escape route, you need to know where you can speed up to remain undetected. Also, despite their fragility, RN cruisers are fairly good brawlers - insane acceleration enables dodging manouvers and great concealment allow you to vanish when needed. Smoke is great, and well balanced with only 7 seconds of deployment.
Weaknesses

Fragility and prone to receive massive damage from well placed AP salvo. That one is the biggest flaw of those vessels. Although I only were so hardly punished three times, it can make their games uneven. It's a bit RNG. I bounced few salvoes when extremely angled, and received 20k hits when extremely angled, no rule here. Broadside is of course out of the question. 
AP ammo falls off when the target is angled. You still can get decent hits if the target has superstructures you can damage. Nagato, Bismarcks, Schars, Amagis and NC's all have pretty massive superstructures. So you need to aim ABOVE frontal, rear turrets. Shells will omit the extreme armour and chew through more penetrable areas. I usually deal around 1.5 - 3k per salvoe, although it's inconsistent. I might do 1000 with 3 salvoes each, only to follow with 4k salvo on the same area cause shells hitted better modules.
Range and ballistics also hinders the performance - ballistics mean hitting DD's above 10 km range is very hard. Range means it's pretty easy to move out of our damage zone and we will have to relocate, or rely on our team to finish off targets we could end, but we lack range. It shows especially in Leander. Leander also has a bit of problems damage wise with only 8 guns. However excellent torpedoes seem to even up the potential.
Advantages

Insane "troll" factor. You can annoy your enemies so much it's hilarious. Find an island. Lob shells over it. Force your opponent to take risky manouver by closing up on you. Pop smoke and continue to frustrate him while sending torps his way. Be wary of radars though. If you see radar cruiser going your way, position yourself in smoke so you can immediately bail out.
Great camo values. With 15 points captain your Edinbourgh will be spotted from 9 km. You can stealth fire from around 13.5 km. You can stealth torp. You can ambush even heavy cruiser due to positioning yourself as to be targeting full broadsided opponent. Until he realises what's happening you will have the upper hand. You can either tank on front (you might still receive a massive hit from 203 mm guns), or pop smoke and proceed with humiliating your opponent. 
Damage wise - if enemy is showing you broadside we're looking at 5k salvoes each. Damage racks very high in small windows, so be sure to aim properly as to not miss you opportunity. Your damage is substantially increased with any torpedo hits. Torpedoes are reasonably fast, very hard hitting, and have both decent drop arc, as well as great reload. 
Fighting against a CA or DD is made much easier with improved heal. You can get back to fighting shape in one activation, a very powerfull tool.

Summary:

Very different cruisers then those that exist now. However, both Fiji and Edinbourgh both feel insanely strong. I got BETTER results in them then on Czapajew and Schors, and in both RU cruisers I'm top 10 in WR and damage. Win rate is rather less important due to low number of games, but average damage is higher, despite no HE and fire combo on BB's. 

Learn them. Take your time, it's so fuckin worth it, you wouldn't believe.

 

[Spuggy]

HOW TO CALEDON LIKE A MANLY MAN AND NOT A BBABY!!

 

 

 

 

ps...... how do you thumbnail images??

[Mike_Chaffin]

[edited]

[Dee_82]

Isn't it amusing that there is so much negativity towards these ships,i quite like them, but much like Atlanta you need to learn to play them.. I find most people that moan in game are the same people that sail in open water or sit at the rear sniping., the answer is to be aggressive and sneaky.

 

Now in saying that I am a little confused between Belfast and Edinburgh, looking at stats alone Edinburgh is getting mauled, now I don't have Edinburgh yet so perhaps its just the same nuggets not playing her right, perhaps its something to do with ranked bb fests we have just now, or perhaps their is a flaw in the ship

Wg will be sucking up this data and they will likely make so e changes based on that data but guys, seriously, how I it that many people have a good time with these ships and others find them terrible, when we have such polar views there is clearly more at work then just.a bad line.  personally I thibk its because its a line of Atlanta based play styles and folk don't like her even they in the right hands she's a machine. And as for this bouncing nonsense, stop aiming at the sides, you don't get many bouncing shells when you nail the super structure.

[Hades_warrior]

In my opinion, WG will nerf this new UK cruisers, because they are really OP. Hybryds of cruisers and destroyers.

I can see how that can be [edited] up on higher tier battles for BB players - 2, even 3 times more torpedos in the sea. ''Sweet''...

 

I played with Black Swan and its realy nice ship for tier 1. 2nd in the line (dont rememberthe name) is much weaker then Black Swan.

[jure_eruj]

ake your time, it's so [edited] worth it

 

I agree with you 100% percent. Well, I agree with one word you wrote about RN cruisers. Guess, which one? How on Earth is over 100 hits which cause little above 20k damage worth it is beyond me. This is the biggest [edited] WG ever made. It clearly shows they have no more ideas what to do to make this game interesting. With every balance they unbalance the game further, all to appease tu russian BBabies who tear up this forum.

[jure_eruj]

HOW TO CALEDON LIKE A MANLY MAN AND NOT A BBABY!!

 

Bravo, the only serious damage you've done is on South Carolina (and you used your torps, not guns). For the rest, you just picked up crippled seals your teammates practically destroyed for you. You just posted a proof of kill stealing, not beeing a manly man.

[Hanszeehock]

So, a little feedback from me, after few more games. Bear in mind my observations are only for tier VI - VII

 

Dropsiq, the T2-T5 will be borderline unplayable for many players, and only the T5 has smoke. My concern is, that regardless of how wonderful you think the higher tiers are, most people would have given up on this line long before they ever get to the high tiers.

[creamgravy]

30 games in Edinburgh. She completely outclasses all other tech tree tier 8 cruisers.

 

 

Nothing beats taking a 30k salvo from Bismarck, only to heal back most of it and then pummel them with AP, secondaries and a face full of torpedoes in a brawl. Warspite approves 

 

Forget the guide, you can't touch a half decent destroyer captain. BBabies are your main prey with those big, juicy superstructures.

 

 

Dropsiq, the T2-T5 will be borderline unplayable for many players, and only the T5 has smoke. My concern is, that regardless of how wonderful you think the higher tiers are, most people would have given up on this line long before they ever get to the high tiers.

 

Here's what I'd do.

 

T1-2. Add HE, the rest is fine.

T3-4. Fix deck armour over the citadel (1" or 25mm) Add HE, remove the heal.

T5. Add 8km torpedoes. (This is the first 'SAP only' ship but has epic torpedoes)

T6-8. Fine (maybe remove heal, it's very OP)

T9-10. Reduce citadel like T6-8 or drop draught by a few meters to match T6-8.

[Hanszeehock]

quoted post removed

 

Mike, you really need to get your facts straight before posting like this.

 

Tuccy is not a dev. He is a WG employee based in Paris and is part of the Community Team. The Devs are based in St Petersburg and employed by a separate company, Lesta. As a WG employee, do you really think he should be critical of his employers own game ?

 

Anyone who knows him, or has seen his postings on this forum over the years, knows that Tuccy has a wide and excellent knowledge of history and warships. The County class was introduced in the 1920s and was one of the RNs last heavy cruisers. Obviously it doesn't fit into a light cruiser branch, however RN CAs will come eventually. Dido class is an AA ship, like Atlanta, again it does not really fit into the CL line, but I expect we will see one as a premium. Overall, the RN did build generic designs in large numbers, due to the wide global commitment they had.

 

Please do not rely on Tuccy's stats to prove anything. Like me, Tuccy was involved in the long testing period for these ships. He would have had a great number of battles in them and these battles do not appear in personal stats.

 

Finally, I realise you are emotional about the introduction of the RN into the game. I've been waiting for the RN for years, I'm not happy either and I wish the devs had not taken this approach. I do think that people, not from the UK, don't appreciate the emotional attachment that many in our Country feel for the RN. Once upon a time it absolutely dominated people's lives and was the biggest employer in the UK. Many British people have relatives or ancestors who served in the RN. Obviously, it would have been better to try this AP only experiment on the RU CA, where no one could have cared less. But that was not to be. So please don't insult blameless WG employees, you are getting too emotional as well as breaking a forum rule.

 

 

[Dampfboot]

ps...... how do you thumbnail images??

 

More reply options --> attach files.

 

Please Wargaming fix the totally awful firing arcs. Otherwise the RN cruisers are fine.

[Ryuuteimaru]

Met my first Edinburgh in a Mogami last night, first time I've done a 34k damage salvo none detonation in a Cruiser.

 

[IanH755]

 

Here's what I'd do.

 

T1-2. Add HE, the rest is fine.

T3-4. Fix deck armour over the citadel (1" or 25mm) Add HE, remove the heal.

T5. Add 8km torpedoes. (This is the first 'SAP only' ship but has epic torpedoes)

T6-8. Fine (maybe remove heal, it's very OP)

T9-10. Reduce citadel like T6-8 or drop draught by a few meters to match T6-8.

 

Thats sounds about right to me. T2-5 are fairly weak right now and I'm not sure people will bother to grind out any further which is a shame because T6 is workable, T7-8 are both very good "in the right situation" and OK any other time.

[matty92]

Getting deleted by t6 battleship in Fiji one salvo [edited]off. 

[Admiral_noodle]

 

Dropsiq, the T2-T5 will be borderline unplayable for many players, and only the T5 has smoke. My concern is, that regardless of how wonderful you think the higher tiers are, most people would have given up on this line long before they ever get to the high tiers.

 

I don't think many will struggle with 2 or even 3. But you are bang on about the 4/5 and most casual players don't have silly amounts to free xp to the tier 6. Having two (in my opinion woeful) ships in a row is painful and frustrating. Once you get to 6 and up the shipsdo become good. But it's the mid/low mid tiers which are (as I've said) no fun zones. 

[Beardroid91]

Leander at tier 6 is where the fun finally starts for the British CL's, had a great game in the Leander last night, 172,4K damage in my little teabag.

 

Would have had 5-6 kills but AP only works on broadsides and people just go bow in ... thx alot WG... now can i have my crappy HE shells ?