Guide: British Cruisers

[Celandri]

well a RN ship can get citadelled in front by any ship with 203mm cannons, so if you see a furutaka or higher. any angeling wont work, unless you get shot at autobounce area.

[SeaMonsterUK]

well a RN ship can get citadelled in front by any ship with 203mm cannons, so if you see a furutaka or higher. any angeling wont work, unless you get shot at autobounce area.

 

And Battleships from Tier 4 and up are capable of taking out a British cruiser with a single salvo. From my experience they are the easiest ships to citadel currently in the game.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

I don't really know. I'll be honest, I played around 100 games with RN and I find them very strong. I constantly compare the results I get with them, with the results of the very similar line I grinded just before them - RU ones, one of the best firestarter in the game right? Now, here are the results:

 

Dimitri Donski - 66 battles, 67% win rate, 79k damage (ended in unfavorable meta, had few bad games in a row when ending grinding, would say its about 85k average)
Kutuzov - 123 battles, almost 75k damage, 73% win rate.
Czapajew - 30 battles, 75k damage (win rate irrelevant, too few games played)
Schors - 27 battles, 82k damage

Budionny - 21 battles, 61k damage

 

And for royal navy:

Neptune - 32 battles, 85k average - I think I can bump this to 100k average
Edinbourgh - 33 battles, 76k average

Fiji - 19 battles, 89k average

Leander - 6 battles, 56k average

So, despite not having HE ammo, damage output is higher then damage output on pretty similar vessels with HE ammo. There is of course a factor here - torpedoes. I personally expect, that average damage when sticking only to guns would be a bit lower, let's say 10k lower. But since torpedoes are much better it equalizes. Let me also note, that RU cruisers from VI - VIII are one of the highest damage dealer in game, especially cause of racking meaningless damage on BB's with fires.

 

[SerPurr]

 

And Battleships from Tier 4 and up are capable of taking out a British cruiser with a single salvo. From my experience they are the easiest ships to citadel currently in the game.

 

1 salvo from a Hindenburg, 7 citadels on a Minotaur. Yes, 7. And it happened twice already. Oooh that must feel so glorious in randoms. You spent all this time sneaking around with your uber stealth, smoke, supertorps and gatlingun rof and then comes along another cruiser and *blup*  In the meantime I couldn't kill a tashkent with my Edinburgh cause four salvos bounced harmlessly off its bow. Leander against Konig trying to flee? My glorious RN AP did the amazing amount of 3K damage (Yes I aimed at the deck, yes the shells landed on the superstructure) in 8 salvo's. This line requires you to get a subscription of oxazepam before playing so you don't throw your monitor out the window each week.

 

 

[creamgravy]

Depends how good NO captain is. Because, he can deal massive damage from front on you with AP (I need to confirm it, but I think 203 mm guns overmatch you on front?

 

Edinburgh bounces 8" AP all day long. Your functionally like all tier 8 cruisers agasint 8" AP, maybe stronger due to more overpens on the hull/superstructure. (Bow/stern on or decent angle = bounce, broadside = citadels, above the belt =  overpen if it doesn't bounce)

 

Fiji is very vulnerable to 8" AP through the nose, Belfast slightly less so. Angle these ships agasint 8" AP, don't go bow on like Edinburgh.

 

And how's that Neptune going for you creamgravy?

 

The smoke generator broke down in my first game. I was very salty in chat before getting deleted. 

[Celandri]

I don't really know. I'll be honest, I played around 100 games with RN and I find them very strong. I constantly compare the results I get with them, with the results of the very similar line I grinded just before them - RU ones, one of the best firestarter in the game right? Now, here are the results:

 

Dimitri Donski - 66 battles, 67% win rate, 79k damage (ended in unfavorable meta, had few bad games in a row when ending grinding, would say its about 85k average)

Kutuzov - 123 battles, almost 75k damage, 73% win rate.

Czapajew - 30 battles, 75k damage (win rate irrelevant, too few games played)

Schors - 27 battles, 82k damage

Budionny - 21 battles, 61k damage

 

And for royal navy:

Neptune - 32 battles, 85k average - I think I can bump this to 100k average

Edinbourgh - 33 battles, 76k average

Fiji - 19 battles, 89k average

Leander - 6 battles, 56k average

 

So, despite not having HE ammo, damage output is higher then damage output on pretty similar vessels with HE ammo. There is of course a factor here - torpedoes. I personally expect, that average damage when sticking only to guns would be a bit lower, let's say 10k lower. But since torpedoes are much better it equalizes. Let me also note, that RU cruisers from VI - VIII are one of the highest damage dealer in game, especially cause of racking meaningless damage on BB's with fires.

 

one issue here, we are talking about the whole tree.

You talk about the top ships and they have a totaly diffrent of shells in the air than the lower tiers aka giving a furutaka 203mm gun with the old reload of 25sec vs your auto shooting ships with 5 sec reload

that means more shells in the air. aka more dpm. also means you can hit more shells before you get oneshot because of the 203 auto pens your ship. and with the way the armor is setup on the british you get oneshot as the shells automaticly go into the citadel from the front, actualy its nearly better to show your broadside as they will overpen your ship like a dd get shot by a AP shell.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

one issue here, we are talking about the whole tree.

You talk about the top ships and they have a totaly diffrent of shells in the air than the lower tiers aka giving a furutaka 203mm gun with the old reload of 25sec vs your auto shooting ships with 5 sec reload

that means more shells in the air. aka more dpm. also means you can hit more shells before you get oneshot because of the 203 auto pens your ship. and with the way the armor is setup on the british you get oneshot as the shells automaticly go into the citadel from the front, actualy its nearly better to show your broadside as they will overpen your ship like a dd get shot by a AP shell.

The question was:

 does the damage done by the 'special' AP RN shell include an allowance for 'lost' fire damage?

So I picked ships that I played recently, which also have similar characteristics (lots of small caliber guns with nice RoF) and compared them against each other. Schors vs Fiji, Kutuzov/Czapajew vs Edinbourgh. And results are similar, which would mean, that despite losing HE and fire damage, the ships still do well enough to beat kings of the damage in this game. 

I don't compare Svietlana vs Danae as I don't have them and didn't play them. When I will play them, I will compare them also. But I want my Minotaur, so I got my priorities straight

 

quoted post removed

[edited]

 

[Xevious_Red]

Haven't had a chance to play the highest tiers. Only gone up to tier 5 so far.

 

Currently I get worse results with the tier 3/4/5 ships than I do with other nations. While the WR is OK, the average damage is way down. For example with the Emerald I'm averaging 24k. With the Furutaka I averaged 54K. Similarly the Danae with its softer MM I average 33k. The phoenix  (back when it was +2) I averaged 48k

 

With the lower tiers they don't have great detection. Danae is 10km with 12km guns and 6km torps with no smoke. If there are islands you can sneak. If you've ended up on strait West spawn then your choice is open water or open water. Emerald gains smoke, but still only has 6km torps so unless you catch someone around islands they won't do much.

Add in that low level German BB are virtually invulnerable to RN AP. I would much rather encounter a nagato (tier 7) than a kaiser (tier 4) since I can actually do 1.5-3k per salvo instead of 0-990

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Currently I get worse results with the tier 3/4/5 ships than I do with other nations. While the WR is OK, the average damage is way down. For example with the Emerald I'm averaging 24k. With the Furutaka I averaged 54K. Similarly the Danae with its softer MM I average 33k. The phoenix  (back when it was +2) I averaged 48k

 

With the lower tiers they don't have great detection. Danae is 10km with 12km guns and 6km torps with no smoke. If there are islands you can sneak. If you've ended up on strait West spawn then your choice is open water or open water. Emerald gains smoke, but still only has 6km torps so unless you catch someone around islands they won't do much.

Add in that low level German BB are virtually invulnerable to RN AP. I would much rather encounter a nagato (tier 7) than a kaiser (tier 4) since I can actually do 1.5-3k per salvo instead of 0-990

I think that might be a big problem. GE BB's were already extremely stron in other cruisers, even Omaha class was having troubles with dealing reliable damage to them. I think that lower RN CL's should get HE ammo, since fires are only way you can do substantial damage to a ship with no/minimum superstructures. But I would say, it's less of a RN CL's design problem, and more of a BB design problem  

 

[Admiral_noodle]

I think that might be a big problem. GE BB's were already extremely stron in other cruisers, even Omaha class was having troubles with dealing reliable damage to them. I think that lower RN CL's should get HE ammo, since fires are only way you can do substantial damage to a ship with no/minimum superstructures. But I would say, it's less of a RN CL's design problem, and more of a BB design problem  

 

 

Actually yes. My Murmansk had not been having so much fun lately. However at least I can fit DE to it and farm some fire damage. And yes I know it's actually an illusion. That fire damage can be healed and generally isn't as useful as RNCL damage. 

 

XP doesn't care though does it maybe light moderate and heavy damage needs separating and rewarding differently. For different classes. Maybe fire damage should get less xp. 

 

Oh and at least in Murmansk I can reliable finish off low health targets with HE... oh no. RNG says module destroyed and no damage. (!) 

 

But with HE and fires you feel more useful. And perception is everything. 

[von_Boeg]

I can understand that - like I understand what Admiral_H_Nelson wrote. But Admiral_H_Nelson at least tries and plays a lot of cruisers. So hes opinion is ok, cause it comes from experience. 

 

Here you are making one big mistake; one do not have to be interested in playing cruisers to be interested in playing RN.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 Here you are making one big mistake; one do not have to be interested in playing cruisers to be interested in playing RN.

That is true, and I don't negate that. I negate, that one has to at least play them a bit, preferably reach higher tiers, to vocal his displeasure about whole line. It's like playing a Kawachi and Myogi only, and then saying Amagi and Yamato are crap. Isn't it a bit stupid? 

 

[SeaMonsterUK]

That is true, and I don't negate that. I negate, that one has to at least play them a bit, preferably reach higher tiers, to vocal his displeasure about whole line. It's like playing a Kawachi and Myogi only, and then saying Amagi and Yamato are crap. Isn't it a bit stupid? 

 

 

Yeah, but none of us are saying the high tiers are crap, but the low tiers because WG wanted to use one of their half witted experiments on it. Which failed because the main weapon of a Cruiser is HE and not Special AP shells which is WG's way of making them easy to kill.

[SeaMonsterUK]

But I'm sure before any fix for the British tree comes along, we'll probably get a new premium cruiser for a nation that cannot make it's own tree, like the Canarias for example.

 

Artillery:

• 4x2 203mm L/50 Mark VIII
• 8x1 4.7" guns (6 were fitted in October with the last pair being fitted in February)

AA Guns

• 8x1 4.7" guns
• 4x1 40mm Pom Poms
• 2x2 37mm
• 3x1 20mm
• 2x1 57mm

Torpedoes: None - She was supposed to receive but it's believed they were never fitted

 

Tier could perhaps be Tier 7, with a decent AA, a mix of British, German and whoever made the 57mm guns. Also this configuration was what she was after the civil war but before World war 2, all 40mm were replaced with twin 37mm guns taking it to 12 in 6 twin mounts and she participated in the search and rescue of survivors from the Battleship Bismarck.

[Admiral_noodle]

I also agree, that lower tiers should be easy mode. If they're not - this should be changed. Lower tiers are for new players/casual players. In this design higher tiers feel easier for various reasons then lower ones, which is not very smart. I would give HE to the lower tiers and take it back at tier VI. That would be my recommendation, but I have to yet play them, so it's a bit in vacuum, based only on other opinions. 

 

 

Go forth and play Danae then Emerald. Sure you'll do well and club seals, because you're a good player, but think how much effort you have to put in to do it, and then extrapolate... And see the problem

 

Meanwhile I caved and skipped to Leander... Sorry, "once" in Danae and Emerald was enough... 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

I surely will. I'm not particularly interested in Emerald, but since we got 2 Danae's in PL navy, and they were the only cruisers we ever had, I'm looking forward to them. Already have them in port, maybe I give them a spin today. Are tier IV MM more balanced already, or is it still full of Danae's?

[SeaMonsterUK]

I surely will. I'm not particularly interested in Emerald, but since we got 2 Danae's in PL navy, and they were the only cruisers we ever had, I'm looking forward to them. Already have them in port, maybe I give them a spin today. Are tier IV MM more balanced already, or is it still full of Danae's?

 

Take the emerald too while you are at it

[Redgecohones]

I'm clawing my way through Danae as we speak, currently seeing approx 2 Brit cruisers a side on average (a little more if tier 3 is more present) seen a grand total of one emerald in game so far this morning....

 

For some reason my mind see's free xping as 'cheating' but boy, this is painful - almost as painful as listening to the 'British English' voiceover -  that lasted all of 1/3rd of a match before i had to swap it back.

[creamgravy]

I surely will. I'm not particularly interested in Emerald, but since we got 2 Danae's in PL navy, and they were the only cruisers we ever had, I'm looking forward to them. Already have them in port, maybe I give them a spin today. Are tier IV MM more balanced already, or is it still full of Danae's?

 

Danae has broken citadel deck armour, it should be 25mm but has been accidentally put back to the generic tier deck plating. Any destroyer HE will citadel you on the deck.  So watch out for HE spammers.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 Danae has broken citadel deck armour, it should be 25mm but has been accidentally put back to the generic tier deck plating. Any destroyer HE will citadel you on the deck.  So watch out for HE spammers.

Lulz. This gonna be fun. They kinda rushed it, didn't they But you get the heal right, everything's gonna be fine right? I'll be ok, right? Right?

 

[Redgecohones]

You're lucky to get approx 1/5th health from your heal I'm afraid.

[SerPurr]

I'm a casual scrub. I don't even play randoms. Only noob-mode 'PvE' for me. So by some standards I should just keep my mouth shut cause I'm obviously not qualified enough to have an opinion on any ship in the game. I'm ok with that. I know tons of people are way more daring, adventurous and skilled than I'll ever be. I like my little Co-Op cocoon. Anyways, I have no issue in that greenhorn testbed to match or even surpass my average scores with the RN line. As I've said plenty of times before, some are truly excellent ships (when of course played to their strengths). Doesn't mean I think they are fun to play. I have very mixed feelings about that. What it personally comes down to is that I sail RN CL's shivering and quivering not to be detected and please no! shot at. I don't have that feeling at all when playing the other lines. I basically feel like a supersized DD being sharkfood for prowling BB's. I don't mind getting hit. I love to brawl. When I want to play sneaky I pick a DD and go have fun. It's all good cause it's all there. In that regard I gave (and am still inclined to give) the higher tiers the benefit of the doubt. Still, I have the sneaky suspicion ultimately I'll feel let down. There's a artificial limiter in play I don't enjoy. I'm ok with being fragile. I'm also ok with having AP only. Bad arcs and shell speed? Ok, bring it on! It's the combination of these three that royally puts me off though. Maybe I'm spoiled by the other nations. Could be.

[Xevious_Red]

Yeah low tier heal is pretty bad as well. Usual scenario is start on 20k health. Get hit for 5k. Heal gives you back 750.

Get hit again lose 12k. Heal gives you back 1.2k

Next hit kills you.

 

Tier 5 when you have 27k health and encounter DB that like to.start fires it's more useful.

 

Point of note: The AP is fine against other cruisers, DD and CV. It also works against US BB, nagatos, Ishizuchi. Against stock myogi and German BB dont even bother.

If the game comes down to you and another danae/emerald vs 2 German BB then good luck. On the plus side your very thin so can sometimes run them down with torps if you can get the on their own

[Celandri]

well i will say the pain of playing tier 3 made me want to free xp for once to tier 5. as the tier 3-5 BB from germans makes me cry in a corner and rush them just to try to hit a torp instead of my bouncing shells of rubber.

i got the tier 7 belfast and thats a good ship but from well 1-2 is ok. but 3-> 5... i was close to smash my screen because you couldnt do crapto the german BBs but the ijn you could atleast do some dammage to same with the american. but german? easier to just drive and try to drown your own ship via ram or torps.

[SerPurr]

For those interested, here's Notser' (CC)  preliminary take on the RN CL's:

(In case you can't be bothered watching some casual gaming and listen to the whole thing, here's the gist of it: 'More of the same as is currently allover the place')