Guide: British Cruisers

[Capra76]

 

You're wrong. Fire damage, as well as HE damage, is 100% regainable for BB. AP damage is not

 

 

Only to the extent that the BB has the heals available, and can live long enough to use it  Keep him burning long enough and hard enough and he isn't getting it back, and of course he is also having to sacrifice one or more of his heals to repair the damage, meaning he can't use them to recover damage from other sources (like 50% of the damage suffered from regular AP hits).

 

Also, XP and credits are calculated based on damage caused, do you know if the calculation weights fire damage differently to other sources.

[Admiral_noodle]

Yes, you are right. And yes, I agree that if indeed, lower tiers are underperforming, which is hard to tell really, with borked MM that will go on for a week or so, they should be buffed.

I just disagree with comments from people that didn't even made to Leander, but they somehow know how whole line is crap, useless and whatnot, cause it doesn't have brainless HE of IJN cruisers on them. And who was that guy, who actually said, that smoke was a "liability"? How retarded is that comment?

What I'm doing here, is just showing you that those cruisers are very strong, and fun to play. So even if there are some real shitty ships before, it's well worth the grind to go to the good ones. That is all.

 

 

I would agree that the tier 7+ are strong and fun to play especially as you have more guns and RoF making the tier 3-6 problems go away. You can fire at angled anything and do ok damage. 

 

The problem is 3-6. 3 and 6 are tolerable bookends. 4 and 5 are a chore to play. Not fun. I can make them work. I don't want to. Not do the vast majority of the EU server it seems. 10 games tonight mostly testing Perth before you all cry foul I only played 2... all mid tier. One RNCL sighted. One. 

 

And the AP problem isn't that HE 6" spam does more damage. It does not. In fact it does next to nothing vs. Armoured bbs. But all you're playing for is the glorious chance of fires. With the RNCL there is no chance. You get whatever damage you get. In Fiji and above that's ok. A few thousand against angled targets will add up. A few hundred damage at best with the lower tiers will not. 

 

Tier 4/5 need something, and pretty quick. Or no one will ever play the tier 7+ anyway. 

[DarthB0B0]

 

Yes, in the end I guess that it is a question of playstyle - that is however also influenced (and I cannot stress this enough) by the ship design. If you look at the British cruiser history, an awful lot of them was lost, because simply protection was a compromise. As such, RN cruisers were never going to be well protected as US cruisers or with heavy main battery like the Japanese - that is simply not how they were designed. they were designed to be shell hoses, based on the philosophy that if you throw enough 6" Semi-AP at the enemy, something is bound to break (especially since htheir main targets were indeed cruisers, destroyers and commerce raiders). 

 

Appreciate that you are posting here. Thanks

 

OK, not sure how but forgot my central thread. When I said I disagreed with you re playstyle I meant to add that you strongly hint that the lots of RN cruisers you say were lost because they were weak. How do you know this? Perhaps they were lost because they fought aggressively and fought high odds... This is equally possible and more probable frankly. I seriously doubt that they would use ambush tactics when running escort duties.

 

That having been said I am certain that they were not often if ever lost sitting behind an island spamming shells from smoke 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Only to the extent that the BB has the heals available, and can live long enough to use it  Keep him burning long enough and hard enough and he isn't getting it back, and of course he is also having to sacrifice one or more of his heals to repair the damage, meaning he can't use them to recover damage from other sources (like 50% of the damage suffered from regular AP hits).

Doesn't it also work the same for AP spam? It's the same, apart that your damage will not be repairable in 100%. It's a bit smaller, but only a bit, but not all of it can be regained.

 

quoted post removed

[edited]

 

 Tier 4/5 need something, and pretty quick. Or no one will ever play the tier 7+ anyway. 

If that's the case, then indeed. But it must be some time till they collect and analyse the data. So I wouldn't expect it soon :<

 

 

 

[creamgravy]

RN light cruisers will always be high risk brawlers.... How many puffs of smoke will I get today? Does this guy know how to angle? Will I ever get used this funky rudder? 

 

It only took 56 (non-premium) fun filled games in Edinburgh to research Neptune. These cruisers are amazing for gunboat destroyer vets 

 

What's up CV dudes I've got no defensive fire... Free kill over here!

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

You will love Neptune. It's a bit different then Edinbourgh, but after you got hull - damn she's a beast!

[SeaMonsterUK]

You will love Neptune. It's a bit different then Edinbourgh, but after you got hull - damn she's a beast!

 

Still waiting for Tiers 1 through 5

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 Still waiting for Tiers 1 through 5

Then prepare to wait at least a week. I explained why I won't play them until know, I really hope you're smart enough to find where.

 

On the other hand, I still wait for some good games in your other low tier cruisers. 10 each? 

 

 

[SeaMonsterUK]

Then prepare to wait at least a week. I explained why I won't play them until know, I really hope you're smart enough to find where.

 

On the other hand, I still wait for some good games in your other low tier cruisers. 10 each? 

 

 

 

Now would be better when it is actually relevant and people are still playing with them.

[Chiledip]

Well I worry about the RN destroyers when they are ever introduced. Officially the RN lost 28 cruisers in WW2, as opposed to 132 destroyers! Those new DDs will have to come with a health warning.

 

The interesting thing about these statistics is that only 8, yes 8 were sunk by surface ships. That is incredible isn't it, you wouldn't think that would be the case reading some of the history wannabes on this thread. Just think about the amount of action those cruisers saw, but only 8 were sunk in over 6 years around the world by other surface vessels!

 

Please stop suggesting that RN cruisers were squishy pieces of garbage, the cold, hard facts don't back you up! 

 

Oh, my sources. Roskill.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Royal_Navy_losses_in_World_War_II

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Whatevs man, whatevs.

@Admiral_H_Nelson

Here you have first vid I made about RN cruisers, commentary is mostly some general advices, and is in polish - turbo - klingon language, but it has Fiji in it, so it's awesome already. Most important thing - check where I aim my shots, and compare them to where you aim with regular cruisers. It's one of the most important things with RN.

[BlueMoon51]

It's not bragging. It's showing what can be done with the ship - if played carefully. Note that while I mount spotter plane, it is good mostly for early game shots while you are getting into position (always use terrain for covered approach, if possible) or for taking potshots at ships at the end of battle. Main part is however picking your position very carefully (do not run head-on into enemy lemming train) - for the beginning it is important to pick on isolated destroyers and cruisers, get to under 10 km and shoot them full of holes. Then you use terrain for cover, pick your targets and wherever possible, try to get to torpedo range. While keeping an eye out for any DD near you trying to hide in smoke - they often get pretty surprised and thanks to the HAS you do not need to fear their torpedos. If you are bottom tier, you need to be more careful - but still you should go to around 10km. Closer if against DD. This all leads to a rahter DD-like high risk - high potential reward play style. Alternatively you can just spam at long rage and still deal more damage than with 6" HE.

 

In any case a frequent sentiment in this thread was invalidating the guide on basis of "Do they even play their own game?" - Well yes, we do. And I do not consider myself a "pro" - I detest number crunching in tactics, I tend to be rather aggressive most of the times (which is pretty hurtful to in-game survival). And yes, I noted that the results are outliers - then again, it was 3 battles in a row. 

 

Akula, the only occassion when the HE would do more damage to the enemy would be when engaging carrier - forcing it to stop flight ops. On average, HE causes less damage - yes, you can cause fire, but overall in this caliber you have a lot of shells failing to do any damage. 

 

Yes, in the end I guess that it is a question of playstyle - that is however also influenced (and I cannot stress this enough) by the ship design. If you look at the British cruiser history, an awful lot of them was lost, because simply protection was a compromise. As such, RN cruisers were never going to be well protected as US cruisers or with heavy main battery like the Japanese - that is simply not how they were designed. they were designed to be shell hoses, based on the philosophy that if you throw enough 6" Semi-AP at the enemy, something is bound to break (especially since htheir main targets were indeed cruisers, destroyers and commerce raiders). This is however something that cannot be easily changed. If, once the dust settles, the ships are found to be underperforming, they will be adjusted (same as, say, German cruisers, or American battleships) - after all game balance is ever evolving.

However breaking out torches and pitchforks often just based on hearsay and theorycrafting is kinda... Premature.

 

The fact you are able to make them work is totally irrelevant because one would assume that you are a much better player than the majority of people that are struggling up the line are.

 

The key point is that you have introduced a line, basically saying that you can attract NO new players by doing so. As I have said before how well would the RU community take you introducing the T34 into WOT and saying "not recommended for new players" I'm guessing you would all be fired within the week.

 

As for trying to pedal "they weren't great historically" line, I have no issue with that and I'm sure you have looked into it in a great deal more detail than I have. I also seem to be in a minority here in that I understand why you introduced a full Light-Cruiser line, given the RN's deployment of cruisers  However you can't have it both ways and I look forward to the removal of the PLAN warship that is in the game and falls outside the historical time-frame of the game and the re-balancing of the Russian and Soviet Navies to match their historical performance levels, 

[Chiledip]

Just think about the amount of miles the cruisers did. Not hidden in port/ Fjord etc, not protected by capital ships or Aircraft for much of the time. And the combined surface naval forces of Germany, Italy and Japan sank one of these "weren't great historically" ships every 9 and a half months. There were lots of them too and as I said, not hiding (behind islands spamming AP from a smoke bubble with fingers crossed). Fact is they were good fighting ships with great fighting men on board.

 

If these ""weren't great historically" ships were so poor,maybe these great revered German ships, i.e Bismarck, Scharnhorst ,Tirpitz, Graf Spee,  Prinz Eugen et al might have been ordered to attack them on sight? Wasn't the case was it? How many British cruisers did that list of sunk German ships sink again? Anyone?

 

Historical accuracy is or isn't a part of the game. Surely after the release of the RU line we can put to bed any theory other that we are living in the realms of total fantasy here, and that's OK. But when WG staff, Supertesters etc keep bringing back "historical accuracy" as a reason to excuse massive design flaws, it detracts massively from the discussion.

 

The RN line is a fantasy line,of invented ships like every other one. Why they had to make this one so lacking in fun and so unappealing is anyone's guess.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

Whatevs man, whatevs.

@Admiral_H_Nelson

Here you have first vid I made about RN cruisers, commentary is mostly some general advices, and is in polish - turbo - klingon language, but it has Fiji in it, so it's awesome already. Most important thing - check where I aim my shots, and compare them to where you aim with regular cruisers. It's one of the most important things with RN.

 

Well with "regular cruisers" I am firing HE at angled battleships, not AP, in the first place.   ...but seriously..........

 

Watched the vid - thank you!  Well played!  (I am comfortable hearing Polish, BTW. I hear it every day from my workmates!)

 

OBSERVATIONS
- My goodness! The shell arcs don't get any better do they, even at Tier 8.
- Your aim is very good - not many salvos with zero hits
- You dodge incoming fire very well. Bravo!
- Terrific map awareness, and coolness in taking on enemies 1-to-1.
- 3 citadels on the Mogami was impressive. I've never gotton so many because you need to get closer. When i get closer the other ship wrecks me - this is what happens to average players.
- You have to admit that many of the enemy ships were obliging in showing their broadsides though!
- Sorry to see that the gameplay involves torpedoes so much. You are correct - it does look like a hybrid CL/DD playstyle. While you may be mystified as to why anyone could dislike this style of play, I am sorry but I don't. Keep reminding yourself of the phrase "Different strokes for different folks".

 

I am beginning to think that Admiral_Noodle is right about smoke - should be escape mechanism only. Firing from smoke - and "invisifiring" - are infuriating mechanics when you are on the receiving end.

 

[Combat_Hamster]

 

The fact you are able to make them work is totally irrelevant because one would assume that you are a much better player than the majority of people that are struggling up the line are.

 

The key point is that you have introduced a line, basically saying that you can attract NO new players by doing so. As I have said before how well would the RU community take you introducing the T34 into WOT and saying "not recommended for new players" I'm guessing you would all be fired within the week.

 

As for trying to pedal "they weren't great historically" line, I have no issue with that and I'm sure you have looked into it in a great deal more detail than I have. I also seem to be in a minority here in that I understand why you introduced a full Light-Cruiser line, given the RN's deployment of cruisers  However you can't have it both ways and I look forward to the removal of the PLAN warship that is in the game and falls outside the historical time-frame of the game and the re-balancing of the Russian and Soviet Navies to match their historical performance levels, 

Looking  at Tuccy's  quote  I would  not agree  with it at all.  Only 8 RN  cruisers were lost in surface action,  a  fair  proportion of  them  were clobbered  by aircraft,  when they, together  with every other nation's  ships,  initially mounted a  completely inadequate AA armament.  They were also exposed in all theatres.  It would  be  wrong  to compare  them with later  U.S.  designs,  which were free of any treaty constraints,  or  the  Japanese or  German ships,  which ignored  the treaty limitations.  I believe  the 'national trait'  idea  to  be flawed,  every  nation produced   gems  and stinkers.  I believe  this needs to be reviewed, as there needs to  be a mix in each line  to reflect  the mixed playstyles  of the people who will play  that  line,  it  isn't  rocket  science,  as  the European Space  Agency said  as they crashed another very expensive  probe into Mars.  The  idea  for  overall  game balance  runs  up  against  an  obstacle,  in that people  here have  read  their history,  and have a genuine interest in the  ships,  whatever  flag  they fly,  so  when  they  trade up  and  get  their  chocolate  digestives,  and  it  say  McTitties  on the pack,   they  don't  expect  to open it  and  find  Alby own brand,  or  the packet full of custard  creams,  they expect McTitties.  I have read  the  RN cruisers being described  at 'destroyer  hunters'.......so a  'one trick pony'?  The guns  are  effective  but  you are warned about getting in close,  the  heal is a clever idea  but  you are smashed before you can use it.  WG  have  made  a  fantastic  effort with the  RN  cruisers,  the models  are beautiful,  but  all that effort  will be wasted  if  nobody  plays  them, which would be a shame.  Likewise  with  the  German BBs,  the  wonderful turtleback  will keep  them  afloat,  but  does not  protect  their  systems,  so  a  perceived 'OPness'  could be balanced  with  then  loosing  turrets  and modules  more?

[Capra76]

Doesn't it also work the same for AP spam? It's the same, apart that your damage will not be repairable in 100%. It's a bit smaller, but only a bit, but not all of it can be regained.

 

Your point appeared to be that fire damage was meaningless, if I misunderstood I am sorry, but my point was it isn't.

[Lord_Holland_of_Wessex]

 

Yeah asked the same thing a couple of pages back. There are more of these 'odd/useless' upgrades hidden in certain lines but this one is particularly mediocre for sure. The range upgrades on a lot of ships are also questionable imo. It's not like the arcs and shell speed will do you any favors when going beyond the stock range anyways. A c-hull with a tad better armor here and there would have gone a long way but I guess that would have made all the ships completely OP 

 

​Looked at detection range and its the same as stock torps.  Just at tiny damage increase.  Has anyone mounted these would be interested if there any soft stats for them or if angles are better because of different torpedo mountings perhaps?

[Chiledip]

 

Flamu's opinion on the RN cruiser line and its viability. Must say, great to see a neutral, honest view from a very good player. 

[SerPurr]

Looking  at Tuccy's  quote  I would  not agree  with it at all.  Only 8 RN  cruisers were lost in surface action,  a  fair  proportion of  them  were clobbered  by aircraft,  when they, together  with every other nation's  ships,  initially mounted a  completely inadequate AA armament.

 

Throwing in the 'historical stick' is always highly debatable. It serves a fine purpose to explain any part of balancing where the majority of players agree a ship line is good but when things turn bad it quickly feels awkward.

 

 

 

​Looked at detection range and its the same as stock torps.  Just at tiny damage increase.  Has anyone mounted these would be interested if there any soft stats for them or if angles are better because of different torpedo mountings perhaps?

 

Neptune' torpedo upgrade doesn't fare much better btw. The only good upgrade is that of Edinburgh. The tier VII and IX are just to extend grinding if you want to 'elite' the ship imo.

 

 

Flamu's opinion on the RN cruiser line and its viability. Must say, great to see a neutral, honest view from a very good player. 

 

So:

 

-Gimmicky

-Very strong when enemy facilitates you a good angle

-Very weak when enemy does not facilitate you a good angle

-Can't hit the broadside of an island above 10 km (arcs)

-Incredibly fragile

-Not recommended for competitive play -ranked- because:

1) you often focus on burning opponents down against good players (which you obviously cant do with the RN line)

2) You can't 'roam' freely (like for example an Atago) because you are not designed/equipped to handle a 1v1 against any equal (tier/skill) opponent.

3) If you want a radar CA, bring a Chapayev or New Orleans. If you want a HE/Smoke spammer, take a MK. Even a Hipper will be better.

 

-Edinburgh is great fun in randoms. Good ship. Highly frustrating at times because your damage drops to garbage against any angled (good?) player, even DD's.

Despite being a good seal clubber, it is a one trick pony, easily defeated by players who know a thing or two.

 

 

 

 

[Celandri]

biggest issues i seen is on low tier ship (3) ap bounce and or do no dammage on a BB even on broadside and you need to shoot at the top most area where you shoot he but side armor do nothing but 0 dammage hits, and shooting even some light cl ships they bounce on the broadsides. but again its low tier, 

 

the tier 7 premium ship is fun i enjoy the DD/CL style so the prem ship is good and fun for me.

if anything is angeled, you can just belly up as you cant do a dang thing against even a angeled cruiser... its like stalinium armored wall of doom going against you, 

its just missing torps so i could get still closer

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Watched the vid - thank you!  Well played!  (I am comfortable hearing Polish, BTW. I hear it every day from my workmates!)

I see what you did there But, I also give this warning to different people when I show them videos in polish, and they might not understand it All those sz's, cz's and rz's make it scary

OBSERVATIONS

- My goodness! The shell arcs don't get any better do they, even at Tier 8.
- Your aim is very good - not many salvos with zero hits
- You dodge incoming fire very well. Bravo!
- Terrific map awareness, and coolness in taking on enemies 1-to-1.
- 3 citadels on the Mogami was impressive. I've never gotton so many because you need to get closer. When i get closer the other ship wrecks me - this is what happens to average players.
- You have to admit that many of the enemy ships were obliging in showing their broadsides though!
- Sorry to see that the gameplay involves torpedoes so much. You are correct - it does look like a hybrid CL/DD playstyle. While you may be mystified as to why anyone could dislike this style of play, I am sorry but I don't. Keep reminding yourself of the phrase "Different strokes for different folks".

- no, they shell arcs are not getting better, they even get worse on Neptune. I actually didn't even install range module on Neptune, since it's pointless to fire at 16.5 km range. But it's not an issue, whole point in RN is to work your position and then exploit it.

- well, after almost 1000 games in Des Moines, I kinda got used to [edited] arcs.

- this is intricate skill of a cruiser captain, it's like some 6th sense, when you just sense a disturbance in the force, and mash those WASD HaX like a mad man

- RN is pretty good at 1 v 1 game. You got torps, you got heal, you got smoke if you're super sneaky, you got camo. And you got RoF and guns. This is pretty substanstial, and I disagree with Flamu that they can't stand 1 v 1 with other ships. They can't stand 1 v 1 against Atago, which also got heal. Every other cruiser is absolutely doable. NO, surprisingly, poses big threat, especially if showing only front, but you still can just outheal him. Or torp the [edited].

- That's what I like about those bad boiz. In truth, they excell in close combat. That's also why Flamu is sceptic about them, he prefer long range HE spam. But it is dangerous, and one mistake can end your game. Edin and Fiji are pretty compact ships, so it not hurts them as much, but Neptune is huge, maybe bigger then Des Moines. So if you're caught out of position/exposed, there is a very small chance that you will survive it. 

- showing broadside to me is not showing broadside to someone else. Although the opponents might not be the brightest, remember is a bit more complicated then "oh but he showed you broadside!" He did, but maybe he angled from incoming BB fire? Or he saw some torps? But most importantly, he didn't know I was there, so I had the element of surprise, and he can't really push me, cause I got torps, and there is team behind me. It's not that simple.

- I understand that. For some dudes Zao gameplay is thrilling and superfun, for me it's boring as british dinner Shame the gameplay of THAT line isn't your thing :<

I am beginning to think that Admiral_Noodle is right about smoke - should be escape mechanism only. Firing from smoke - and "invisifiring" - are infuriating mechanics when you are on the receiving end.

I just think smoke should only cover the ship which set it - a cruiser setting smoke can fire and hide in it. A BB sailing into that same smoke, will only hide in it if he don't shoot. If he shoots, he will be spotted. Without massive overhaul of whole gameplay, smoke must remain as it is. Too many ships, tactics and balance is now relying on it.

 

[creamgravy]

I love the shell arcs. They strike a perfect balance of looping over islands (and friendly ships in smoke) without going off your screen. 

 

NO, surprisingly, poses big threat, especially if showing only front, but you still can just outheal him. Or torp the [edited].

 

The New Orleans? Yeah, maybe in your first battle ...then you realise it's got pitiful HE DPM and you can just angle agasint the AP. It's all the other ships shooting at you that's the problem. 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Depends how good NO captain is. Because, he can deal massive damage from front on you with AP (I need to confirm it, but I think 203 mm guns overmatch you on front? I surely remember taking some huge hits bow on from 203 mm guns cruisers, will have to check some vids). I disagree with whole this "they can't 1 v 1 thing". They surely can, and are pretty good at it. The most 2 funny and surprising things in those cruisers, which I guess advance cruiser players will notice:

a) insane acceleration let's you dodge shells and torps better. You actually accelerate while making a hard turn How sick is this!

b) there is a shift on survivability of those cruisers. In other nations you rely on your armour and angling to "tank" damage. With RN you rely on heal to get you back to fighting capability. This is pretty funny Yesterday I was trying new position on some map, and a freakin Kiev torped me into oblivion. I lost almost all of my HP, only to click heal, and then proceed to regain HALF of my total HP back. So the kinda crucial thing in RN, and it satifies me greatly, is that you just can't allow to be oneshotted. Citadel? Double citadel? Triple citadel? That's all ok, as long as you got a sliver of HP left. 

 

And how's that Neptune going for you creamgravy?

[philjd]

Can I drop this point into the debate for clarity as it does seem to get stated quite frequently.

 

Point made was - the RN 'special' AP does more damage than the equivalent tier HE shell, this, to be honest, I don't disagree with, providing it hits and actually does some damage.

 

But, the point that is missed, or perhaps not clarified enough, is that the fires started by the HE shells tend to rack up loads of damage, and that is, obviously, impossible to do with an AP shell  ('special' or not).

 

So my question is, does the damage done by the 'special' AP RN shell include an allowance for 'lost' fire damage?

[SeaMonsterUK]

Can I drop this point into the debate for clarity as it does seem to get stated quite frequently.

 

Point made was - the RN 'special' AP does more damage than the equivalent tier HE shell, this, to be honest, I don't disagree with, providing it hits and actually does some damage.

 

But, the point that is missed, or perhaps not clarified enough, is that the fires started by the HE shells tend to rack up loads of damage, and that is, obviously, impossible to do with an AP shell  ('special' or not).

 

So my question is, does the damage done by the 'special' AP RN shell include an allowance for 'lost' fire damage?

 

Not by the looks of it.