T7 RN Premium Cruiser Belfast: Overpowered.

[T_H_0_R]

Concealment should stay as it is.

 

But, they should make you choose between smoke and radar, not have both abilities at once.

 

You either choose smoke and make a stealth build (play like a kutuzov), or you choose radar and go for full rudder shift.

 

The reason why concealment has to go is because it is the same with Radar range, let alone some T7 DDs (Kiev). Couple that with brokenly OP AA without DF and you know what the Flamu is talking about. This thing needs nerfing before the release - or other cruisers need a buff.

 

I'll take any of the two solutions. 

[BuccaneerBill]

 

Atlanta & Indianapolis both have radar at T7, you are quite correct.

 

However, they do not also come equipped with smoke, hydro & the concealment module. It's the obvious synergy between those things that make this, IMO, blatantly OP. Now I could of course be wrong but my concerns are for balance & wasted development resources by WG after this goes on sale for one weekend & then has to be pulled as per the Gremmy & Imp Nic, never to be seen again.

 

You could be right not to be worried, 7th. We will have to agree to disagree, in any case.

 

The Atlanta has its own plusses, like some of the best AA in the game, which the Belfast is NO WHERE NEAR,   like over 1000dps@7.2km with def AA.. The Atlanta can get its concealment down to 9.6km so its no slouch, and can shoot over obstacles with an insane DPS like no other. Also the ship is smaller i think and turrets turn instantly pretty much, many times faster than Belfast. It also has torpedoes which come in handy time to time. Belfast adv are more HP, has hydro (which the Atlanta can by sacrifice def AA), and limited size smoke( which tbf the enemy can shell into and hit you often I think). Also more effective range on the guns.  Overall Belfast is probably better in more games than the Atlanta, but if their are CV present and especially 2, I'd probably take the Atlanta. No, definitely.

 

Indianpolis is a totally different play style. But overall worse than Belfast it seems.

 

I would hope Belfast has been through enough testing that it is not op in most players hands.

[Verdius]

 

You may be right but we don't know until the randoms get it.

 

Problem with that is that when the randoms get it and it turns out that it is OP WG won't ever nerf it and we will be left with horrible balancing.

[BuccaneerBill]

 

The reason why concealment has to go is because it is the same with Radar range, let alone some T7 DDs (Kiev). Couple that with brokenly OP AA without DF and you know what the Flamu is talking about. This thing needs nerfing before the release - or other cruisers need a buff.

 

I'll take any of the two solutions. 

 

nothing OP about the AA...cause their is no def AA. The long range AA ain't that strong either

[Sonic_157]

 

 

Hey guys, New review from Notser.

 

 

 

 

 

[T_H_0_R]

OK, forget about AA, but if the 4 consumables stay the concealment needs to go and go fast. Yeah, not OP at all...

 

[BuccaneerBill]

Yea concealment module may be a bit much, just got my trust in wargaming lol. It doesn't get prop module 2 which is something, as it totally fits its playstyle. I have that module on all my cruisers especially those with her playstyle.

 

In my encounters fighting the Belfast in game, I find it easy to hit and damage with high freeboard, I didn't think much of it. But can see it in competent hands being one of the most powerful ships in game. 

[cro_pwr]

OK, forget about AA, but if the 4 consumables stay the concealment needs to go and go fast. Yeah, not OP at all...

 

 

Some people might have problems with pressing radar or smoke key. Buff please.

[Hanszeehock]

 

If it looks OP as **** for an average to above average player, then an excellent player who plays just about everything and thus can be trusted to be quite objective in his comparisons tells you that the ship isn't just OP, it's "insta-buy because in this form it'll be removed from the shop"-OP, it's that the ship is massively OP.

 

 

I don't really agree. I've played Belfast a lot. Some of my colleagues love her, others couldn't play her at all. As I have said before, she is extremely situation and better on some maps than others. She herself can be detected by radar and hydro, while hiding in smoke. Sometimes you get in situations with her where escape is impossible.

 

I believe most players will actually struggle in her. Clearly in her current state she was not statistically OP based on all the testing on all the servers. 

[BuccaneerBill]

Yea the stats of the Belfast http://wows-numbers.com/ship/3763255248,Belfast/ don't look anything special, and the win rate is the lowest of all tier 7 cruisers?

[JiksTBS]

Yea the stats of the Belfast http://wows-numbers.com/ship/3763255248,Belfast/ don't look anything special, and the win rate is the lowest of all tier 7 cruisers?

 

Really? On Warships Today it's WR is 65% which is the highest of any ship at any tier except for the Flint. By way of comparison the officially too OP to be sold again Imp Nikolai has a 60% WR.

 

Very low number of matches of course so may not be representative but is rather alarming...

[Verdius]

Yea the stats of the Belfast http://wows-numbers.com/ship/3763255248,Belfast/ don't look anything special, and the win rate is the lowest of all tier 7 cruisers?

 

The Kamikaze (non R) also has the lowest winrate of tier 5 DD (despite being the exact same as the Kamikaze R, basically the best performing DD of tier 5) on that site so that tells us exactly nothing.

[fumtu]

Yea the stats of the Belfast http://wows-numbers.com/ship/3763255248,Belfast/ don't look anything special, and the win rate is the lowest of all tier 7 cruisers?

 

Well on that list you have several Myoko clones with a different win rate. Does that mean that ARP Haguro is the weakest of all ARP ships at T7. Of course not as they are all the same ship with a different skin. You also forgot to mention that on the same list Belfast is the third by average damage from top.

 

From all those videos this ships looks quite scary. IMHO I think that something has to go, either one of those three consumables or the last upgrade spot. Without one of those things it still could be a good ship. And If it perform poorly they can buff it afterwards.

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

OK, forget about AA, but if the 4 consumables stay the concealment needs to go and go fast. Yeah, not OP at all...

 

 

This proves what? He is in a division with a DD alternating smoke so it doesn't show what the ship is capable of in solo player mode which is how the vast majority of players play this game and also Flamu is OP and not representative of the average player population which will never be able to exploit the Belfast's strong sides.

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

 

Well on that list you have several Myoko clones with a different win rate. Does that mean that ARP Haguro is the weakest of all ARP ships at T7. Of course not as they are all the same ship with a different skin. You also forgot to mention that on the same list Belfast is the third by average damage from top.

 

From all those videos this ships looks quite scary. IMHO I think that something has to go, either one of those three consumables or the last upgrade spot. Without one of those things it still could be a good ship. And If it perform poorly they can buff it afterwards.

 

If you remove one of the things that makes this ship viable it will become UP because of the nearly 50% BB player base and WG will never be able to sell the ship to the average scrub player base if it gets insta-deleted by BBs in every game when spotted. The current meta does not allow for CLs to thrive and currently there are only two ways to make them viable; either buff their abilities or place a hardcap on BBs and the latter WG will never do as they make too much money on players spending money on gold, flags, premium time and XP/credit booster flags and camos to place a hardcap on BBs so there is only buffing CLs left.

Anyway even if OP the HMS Belfast will never have the impact on the game as the numbers of BBs have so its total impact on the game will be neglible compared to BBs = no problem for the game whatsoever.

[fumtu]

 

Anyway even if OP the HMS Belfast will never have the impact on the game as the numbers of BBs have so its total impact on the game will be neglible compared to BBs = no problem for the game whatsoever.

 

Really, OP ship can't impact the game! You don't think that ship that could do to the DD same that BB can do to CA/CL would have any impact on the game. Well I hope they will bring back Gremy soon, because maybe it is OP but it won't have big impact on the game because, you know, compered to BBs. If game is broken let's braek it more, so we all can have a fun. No problem whatsoever.

[Poster_2015]

I honestly would rather see it moved to t8 and slightly buffed then nerfed at t7. I understand the problems, but the whole idea of the ship suffers if you take something away. On other hand at t8 it will have competition with similiar concealment, way stronger guns, torps, radars and such. 

[creamgravy]

I'm still not sure why Belfast is at tier 7 and Edinburgh is at tier 8.The extra consumable slot plus HE is better than 2x3 10km torpedoes and a bit more AA.

 

13mm might even be better than 19mm at this tier, they're functionally the same agasint BB AP and all HE. Loosing 8" AP front/rear auto bounce for more consistent overpens is a fair trade.

[Hanszeehock]

I'm still not sure why Belfast is at tier 7 and Edinburgh is at tier 8.The extra consumable slot plus HE is better than 2x3 10km torpedoes and a bit more AA.

 

Because this is incorrect ?

[Sonic_157]

 

Hey guys. New video review from iEarlGrey.

 

 

 

 

 

[creamgravy]

 

Because this is incorrect ?

 

There's zero reason Belfast should be tier 7 with access to 3 consumable slots. Will Edinburgh get all 3 and torpedoes too? LUL.

[kodos]

How to you know that 3 consumables will not be standard for UK CL?

[CensorMeDaddyWG]

 

There's zero reason Belfast should be tier 7 with access to 3 consumable slots. Will Edinburgh get all 3 and torpedoes too? LUL.

 

Shes premium. Reason enough. Same reason as to why premium US cruisers at Tier 7 get radar, while every regular ship gets it at tier 8. Or why the Atago gets her heal at tier 8, whie everybody else gets it at 9 (who isn't a bb)

 

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

 

 

Really, OP ship can't impact the game! You don't think that ship that could do to the DD same that BB can do to CA/CL would have any impact on the game. Well I hope they will bring back Gremy soon, because maybe it is OP but it won't have big impact on the game because, you know, compered to BBs. If game is broken let's braek it more, so we all can have a fun. No problem whatsoever.

 

BB players wont rush the premium store to buy Belfast, they will continue playing in the only ship class that isn't insta deleted when the player makes a mistake which will happen to the Belfast even if OP compared to other CLs. It is a slow cruiser and can't effectively outrun fast battleships if caught in the open or sink them with torps in knife fight distances.

This ship will not be noob friendly and will only work for connaiseurs and good players the average player will not be able to earn much credit in it and will quickly run back to Shinyhorse, Torpitz or anything else of the noob friendly ships.

[fumtu]

 

BB players wont rush the premium store to buy Belfast, they will continue playing in the only ship class that isn't insta deleted when the player makes a mistake which will happen to the Belfast even if OP compared to other CLs. It is a slow cruiser and can't effectively outrun fast battleships if caught in the open or sink them with torps in knife fight distances.

This ship will not be noob friendly and will only work for connaiseurs and good players the average player will not be able to earn much credit in it and will quickly run back to Shinyhorse, Torpitz or anything else of the noob friendly ships.

 

Any cruiser could be insta deleted by BB, if its not careful enough. Cruiser survivability in this current BB dominated meta is a question that WG need to address sooner or later. But making one ship OP, especially if its primary task is not fighting the BBs is not a solution. In your logic why would anybody buy Indy or Atlanta or any other future premium cruiser is its not better than Belfast. Why would anybody play regular ship if he simple could buy better ship. Premium ship should offer something unique to the respective tier. They shouldn't be just better then anything because that is just p2w. OP ship of any class at any tier is not ok under any circumstances. If Belfast need three consumables and additional upgrade slot just to be good than I'm afraid that Fiji would be a really bad because it won't have that  additional slot and (probably) a third consumable. Yes it will have torpedoes but it still couldn't use them stealthy and it wouldn't have HE to be able to burn BBs down. Should they add them to Fiji too? And we already have one regular CL at T7, Schors. And by stats it's doing good without all those extra stuff that Belfast should get.

 

You can say that for every ship as there is no idiot proof ship in the game. Only some are more forgiving then others. And if credits are problem just add a bigger credit bonus to the ship and the problem is solved.