T7 RN Premium Cruiser Belfast: Overpowered.

[Drunken_Jedi]

Wow this looks insane. Instant buy for me regardless of its performance since it's British lol been waiting for a run cruiser for bloody ages. 

[JiksTBS]

Bloody Hell, that concealment at least has to go. This is brokenly OP, I agree with Flamu. And HP poll, the second highest of all T7 CAs? Seriously?

 

Nice and down to the point review. Thanks.

 

Agreed. It would still be borderline OP even with it's other features but with a concealment value equal to some of the DDs it will come up against the ship is ridiculous. Frankly, it makes the Gremmy look balanced.

 

I really hope WG do not release Belfast in this state because it will only be on the sale the once just like certain other broken ships and never seen again since premiums are never nerfed. Torn on whether to buy this myself as that would be rewarding bad behavior but on the other hand it's insanely OP & I do love winning & need all the help I get ...

[Origin47]

Concealment should stay as it is.

 

But, they should make you choose between smoke and radar, not have both abilities at once.

 

You either choose smoke and make a stealth build (play like a kutuzov), or you choose radar and go for full rudder shift.

[Capra76]

 

I wish I could, but we are still testing 

 

 

You could tell me, but then you'd have to kill me 

[Ksielvin]

 

You could tell me, but then you'd have to kill me 

 

Tell me, kill him.

[HMS_Antelope]

You guys make me laugh, the population haven't even played the ship and its op! Flamu is an excellent player of this game and makes the New Orleans look op in stock form, remember that video clip.  If an average player takes this ship out in T6/8 with the armour situation with BB's and a CV he/she is going to struggle and it will be please buff after day 1.

 

The Scharnhorst was a beast when launched but at T8 is struggling to be dominant due to the AP rounds against Battleships, I see HE being fired all the time now.  The Prinz Eugan really struggled when launched but now we have the second rudder option it does better.

 

The game is changing all the time so lets give the ship a chance before we label her OP, I think a lot of players that buy her will struggle at first as it looks a difficult ship to play on all conditions.  I believe the contributors are creating a lot of hype with this ship, a little too much imo so lets see when normal players get it.

[cro_pwr]

This ship is broken as hell, not "maybe OP", and there are allready people defending it??

Are you people effin serious? This thing is god damn tier 7. With all tools that it has, it basicly has no real counter in this game, and you are telling me its hard to play?
Haha, nice joke guys, nice joke. Cause BBs can hurt you, but just not pressing your left mouse button for 20 sec to go undetected, or popping smoke is just that hard, right...
And with enemies this ship will encounter, you can easily say playing ANY DD around Belfast is just gonna be plain retarded... Just slap 20km 3x4 65knots torp on her as well, to make it even more balanced...

I said it allready, if they release it in this form, it will be disgusting, nothing else...

[Sub_Eleven]

How does this not make the opposition (like Indianapolis for example) obsolete? Why would you bring ANYTHING, other then this? I simply don't understand the reasoning about Belfast's so called "balance" as shown in the video.

 

Thanks to Flamu for sharing this with us.

[Verdius]

You guys make me laugh, the population haven't even played the ship and its op!

Yet someone who has played it calls it OP, has ridiculous replays and its overall stats look horrifying. Why are you defending it when all evidence pint to it being OP?

Flamu is an excellent player of this game and makes the New Orleans look op in stock form, remember that video clip.  If an average player takes this ship out in T6/8 with the armour situation with BB's and a CV he/she is going to struggle and it will be please buff after day 1.

People also complain about BB being UP, that the average player fails in it is rather insignificant for balancing if a decent player can destroy the MM. Plus she isn't worse armoured than any other tier 7 cruiser and she has a high healthpool, stealth, and AA for her tier.

 

The Scharnhorst was a beast when launched but at T8 is struggling to be dominant due to the AP rounds against Battleships, I see HE being fired all the time now.

Scharnhorst can still rek BBs with AP if you know what you are doing. Just because the average player doesn't know that doesn't make it a not strong ship. I have seen complaint threads about Nikolai being UP for crying out loud, but we don't take their word for it either. 

The Prinz Eugan really struggled when launched but now we have the second rudder option it does better. 

Prinz Eugen is a Hipper with next to no changes so it seems rather irrelevant to post about it.

 

The game is changing all the time so lets give the ship a chance before we label her OP,

NO, because WG won't nerf a premium ship, so if it comes into the game as an OP statpadding sealclubbers wet dream the damage done will stick around till the end of time.

 

I think a lot of players that buy her will struggle at first as it looks a difficult ship to play on all conditions.  

How is this worse than say an Atlanta? This ship doesn't look the least bit difficult since it has high survivability due to stealth, AA, health and smoke, good guns, etc etc. For a tier 7 cruiser it is completely unbalanced with no more significant flaws than just being a cruiser in general brings.

I believe the contributors are creating a lot of hype with this ship, a little too much imo so lets see when normal players get it.

 

[BuccaneerBill]

If the bow and stern is only 13mm that is a big deal as every 8" cruiser can pen it at any angle.  Like the Atlanta, where 8" ships are the biggest threat, more so than BBs, because of the accuracy and ROF.

[cro_pwr]

If the bow and stern is only 13mm that is a big deal as every 8" cruiser can pen it at any angle.  Like the Atlanta, where 8" ships are the biggest threat, more so than BBs, because of the accuracy and ROF.

 

Good thing that you have 12 guns with strong HE/AP and low reload time so you can return the favor to them. Oh, and you have smoke. Oh, and you have better concealment.

The only viable "counter" aka, someone that could be a problem to good Belfast player, is someone in lets say New Orleans, with good enough concealment to come close to you, pop radar and say hello with AP freedom shells. And with current MM, you will meet NO in what, 1/10 games? And that NO will probably not have 15 point captain, and you can probably just stay away from him.

[HMS_Antelope]

 

You guys make me laugh, the population haven't even played the ship and its op!
Yet someone who has played it calls it OP, has ridiculous replays and its overall stats look horrifying. Why are you defending it when all evidence pint to it being OP?

Flamu as stated before is not an average player, his play in the New Orleans is ridiculously good, please watch the video and then comment on this.

Flamu is an excellent player of this game and makes the New Orleans look op in stock form, remember that video clip.  If an average player takes this ship out in T6/8 with the armour situation with BB's and a CV he/she is going to struggle and it will be please buff after day 1.
People also complain about BB being UP, that the average player fails in it is rather insignificant for balancing if a decent player can destroy the MM. Plus she isn't worse armoured than any other tier 7 cruiser and she has a high healthpool, stealth, and AA for her tier.

Her stats are average for health pool, AA etc so I don't see why this is different.  She has low range on the guns so will need to get close and pick her battles.

 

The Scharnhorst was a beast when launched but at T8 is struggling to be dominant due to the AP rounds against Battleships, I see HE being fired all the time now.
Scharnhorst can still rek BBs with AP if you know what you are doing. Just because the average player doesn't know that doesn't make it a not strong ship. I have seen complaint threads about Nikolai being UP for crying out loud, but we don't take their word for it either. 

Any good BB driver can do this a Colorado can citadel an Iowa so I'm not sure what point that makes.

The Prinz Eugan really struggled when launched but now we have the second rudder option it does better. 
Prinz Eugen is a Hipper with next to no changes so it seems rather irrelevant to post about it.

Its relevant because people paid a lot of money for a premium expecting to have fun playing it, it isn't fun playing a ship that gets deleted quickly.

 

The game is changing all the time so lets give the ship a chance before we label her OP,
NO, because WG won't nerf a premium ship, so if it comes into the game as an OP statpadding sealclubbers wet dream the damage done will stick around till the end of time.

Do you not think a lot of standard ships can be OP with good players/captains? 

I think a lot of players that buy her will struggle at first as it looks a difficult ship to play on all conditions.  
How is this worse than say an Atlanta? This ship doesn't look the least bit difficult since it has high survivability due to stealth, AA, health and smoke, good guns, etc etc. For a tier 7 cruiser it is completely unbalanced with no more significant flaws than just being a cruiser in general brings.

An Atlanta is a tough ship to play, if you have two carriers in the game fine but its an easy ship to kill.  I agree the HMS Belfast looks a better ship all round but I don't think it will be an instant success. 

I believe the contributors are creating a lot of hype with this ship, a little too much imo so lets see when normal players get it.

 

I think you have made great comments and who knows which is going to be correct but a couple of things I would like to add.  You mention about good players a lot, I'm talking about the general pool of players who are average.  If a good player plays any ship they generally look good in it, even if Flamu had been in an open map with 1 or no Destroyers it would have been a different video, the ship has to be stationary nearly to use smoke which will be exploited and other ships have radar or hydro don't forget.  When players see a Destroyer they tend to focus fire as Destroyers are game changers, this ship will not doubt be targeted by the player base.

 

One final really important point, without money this game doesn't exist so lets accept that a customer who spends money wants good value for money.  A premium ship that is average/below average is not good for paying customers, if WG offered a refund on Premium ships purchased I would sell at least a third of the ships back due to poor/average performance.  Although I love my Scharnhorst it performs no better than it's sister ship.  I buy Premium to ease the grind of cash and XP, Premium ships to train captains, earn cash/XP and to collect.  Money is not a dirty word it just means other people don't have to pay so yes I want a good ship if I pay for it, if its OP for the average player so it's OP.  I take your point if it gets released they won't change it so maybe lobby WG to let average players use it before launch then you could have the stats to back it up.

 

[JiksTBS]

Let's be honest, Flammu could make one those bath toy things look OP but that is not what is going on here.

 

While the Belfast is clearly rather fragile the combination off DD level concealment, hydro, smoke & radar makes it an absolute death machine. If you are in a DD and you detect it, you are already too close. Against anything other than a DD it can choose to stay undetected. At least one of those tools needs to go.

[Sub_Eleven]

It's almost funny how wargaming fails to rebalance USN tier 7-9 cruisers, but has no problem coming up with this. Like, seriously?

[herrjott]

Good thing that you have 12 guns with strong HE/AP and low reload time so you can return the favor to them. Oh, and you have smoke. Oh, and you have better concealment.

The only viable "counter" aka, someone that could be a problem to good Belfast player, is someone in lets say New Orleans, with good enough concealment to come close to you, pop radar and say hello with AP freedom shells. And with current MM, you will meet NO in what, 1/10 games? And that NO will probably not have 15 point captain, and you can probably just stay away from him.

 

Don't forget Mogami and Atago. They are faster, got similar concealment and torpedoes to flush him out of the smoke.

[HMS_Antelope]

Let's be honest, Flammu could make one those bath toy things look OP but that is not what is going on here.

 

While the Belfast is clearly rather fragile the combination off DD level concealment, hydro, smoke & radar makes it an absolute death machine. If you are in a DD and you detect it, you are already too close. Against anything other than a DD it can choose to stay undetected. At least one of those tools needs to go.

 

I think that's a good point but the DD will spot the Belfast first, if you go for the cap in the Belfast you will be fired on before the DD so it's a risk reward ship.  If you stay concealed you cannot fire, you have no torps so are we really talking about the risks to regular destroyer players.  I would back myself in a Yorck next to this any day and in the open water any T7 Cruiser.  It's role is as a DD killer but if you are supported by other ships it will melt alongside, its not a Battleship hunter or Cruiser hunter in my opinion.  A Bismarck can now sail into a cap and kill Destroyers with Hydro and Secondaries so whats different? A Bismarck can't use stealth to run but it kills all types well so is the Bismarck OP? 

[cro_pwr]

@7th_Arm_Div: are you trying to write as much as nonsense as possible, or is it just coming naturally to you?

[JiksTBS]

 

I think that's a good point but the DD will spot the Belfast first, if you go for the cap in the Belfast you will be fired on before the DD so it's a risk reward ship.  If you stay concealed you cannot fire, you have no torps so are we really talking about the risks to regular destroyer players.  I would back myself in a Yorck next to this any day and in the open water any T7 Cruiser.  It's role is as a DD killer but if you are supported by other ships it will melt alongside, its not a Battleship hunter or Cruiser hunter in my opinion.  A Bismarck can now sail into a cap and kill Destroyers with Hydro and Secondaries so whats different? A Bismarck can't use stealth to run but it kills all types well so is the Bismarck OP? 

 

I take your point too but it's detection range is less than that of it's radar. At 8.5km that's a lot of damage the detecting DD will take given remotely competent gunnery. Some of the Russian DD's it encounters will have the same or worse detection & will be obliterated by the first volley.

 

After it is spotted it can pop smoke & hydro rendering it effectively immune to torpedoes. The Bismarck is very strong, borderline OP (54% WR) itself but doesn't have 8.5km detection, radar or smoke so can at least be avoided or lit up for the rest of the fleet to shoot at.

[Exocet6951]

You guys make me laugh, the population haven't even played the ship and its op! Flamu is an excellent player of this game and makes the New Orleans look op in stock form, 

 

 

Yes but he's not saying that the NO, even elite with a 19pt captain is OP, is he?

 

If it looks OP as **** for an average to above average player, then an excellent player who plays just about everything and thus can be trusted to be quite objective in his comparisons tells you that the ship isn't just OP, it's "insta-buy because in this form it'll be removed from the shop"-OP, it's that the ship is massively OP.

 

 

 

[HMS_Antelope]

@7th_Arm_Div: are you trying to write as much as nonsense as possible, or is it just coming naturally to you?

 

You are usually rude to anyone who doesn't share your opinion.  Usually I don't share your opinion but I am not rude about it with you.  You may all be right on the ship but nobody knows for sure do they.  Perhaps you could say you disagree without the personal references you feel obliged to use.  If I am wrong I will say it, would you? 

[HMS_Antelope]

 

I take your point too but it's detection range is less than that of it's radar. At 8.5km that's a lot of damage the detecting DD will take given remotely competent gunnery. Some of the Russian DD's it encounters will have the same or worse detection & will be obliterated by the first volley.

 

After it is spotted it can pop smoke & hydro rendering it effectively immune to torpedoes. The Bismarck is very strong, borderline OP (54% WR) itself but doesn't have 8.5km detection, radar or smoke so can at least be avoided or lit up for the rest of the fleet to shoot at.

 

Good points also but as I'm sure your aware other ships at T7 have radar and hydro so the HMS Belfast will not operate in a bubble.

[HMS_Antelope]

 

Yes but he's not saying that the NO, even elite with a 19pt captain is OP, is he?

 

If it looks OP as **** for an average to above average player, then an excellent player who plays just about everything and thus can be trusted to be quite objective in his comparisons tells you that the ship isn't just OP, it's "insta-buy because in this form it'll be removed from the shop"-OP, it's that the ship is massively OP.

 

 

 

 

You may be right but we don't know until the randoms get it.

[miniko]

do not reflect the opinion of the good player to tell whether a ship is OP because in their hands all ships are OP.

 

Only statistics on average players and many games help to tell if a ship is favored. The proof : the Flint, who has the best winrate but only because she is played by very good players, in the hands of lambda players she is just average. So expect the winrate for average players to tell if it is or not OP.

 

At present, according to statitisques, only imperator Nikolai is OP.

[cro_pwr]

 

The Scharnhorst was a beast when launched but at T8 is struggling to be dominant due to the AP rounds against Battleships, I see HE being fired all the time now.  The Prinz Eugan really struggled when launched but now we have the second rudder option it does better.

 

 

The Scharnhorst is spamming HE because of his low reload time, high HE alpha damage / fire % chance that makes it work really well against angled targets.

Prinz Eugen is repainted ship, so "struggling" with him only means you can't play silver version too.

 

 

Her stats are average for health pool, AA etc so I don't see why this is different.  She has low range on the guns so will need to get close and pick her battles.

One of best health pools,  AA is perfectly fine, she lacks def AA, and thats the major downside. The range is low? For tier 7 cruiser? Are we playing the same game? Anyway, its not her HP or range that makes her OP, its her consumables coupled with concealment and fire power.

 

Its relevant because people paid a lot of money for a premium expecting to have fun playing it, it isn't fun playing a ship that gets deleted quickly.

"I gave WG $ so my ship has to be OP, otherwise its not fun."

 

 

Do you not think a lot of standard ships can be OP with good players/captains? 

No, there are few exceptions that are above average, or borderline OP, but most of brokenly OP ships are premium ones. And as said, WG has policy of not nerfing premiums so once OP premium is out, it stays OP forever, thats the main problem.

 

 and other ships have radar or hydro don't forget. 

Only Atlanta, and Indianapolis have radar on T7 (woot, premiums, so strange), and with new MM, you will play most of your battles in T7. And only German cruisers have anything close to usable hydro, and they have to come into 5km radius of your smoke to detect you with hydro. Good luck doing that.

 

One final really important point, without money this game doesn't exist so lets accept that a customer who spends money wants good value for money.  A premium ship that is average/below average is not good for paying customers, if WG offered a refund on Premium ships purchased I would sell at least a third of the ships back due to poor/average performance.  Although I love my Scharnhorst it performs no better than it's sister ship.  I buy Premium to ease the grind of cash and XP, Premium ships to train captains, earn cash/XP and to collect.  Money is not a dirty word it just means other people don't have to pay so yes I want a good ship if I pay for it, if its OP for the average player so it's OP.  I take your point if it gets released they won't change it so maybe lobby WG to let average players use it before launch then you could have the stats to back it up.

 

Premium ships are supposed to work as a XP/Creds farmers, not as an "I paid $, I want my instant win button". Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

 

I think that's a good point but the DD will spot the Belfast first, if you go for the cap in the Belfast you will be fired on before the DD so it's a risk reward ship.  

And as soon as you are detected by a DD, you press 1 (ONE) button, and you have detected that DD. Aaaaaaaaaaand pretty much killed him because of your firepower.

If you stay concealed you cannot fire, you have no torps so are we really talking about the risks to regular destroyer players.

Are you even serious here? Radar equipped, low reload time, 12 guns bearing with low concealment IS NOT dangerous for a destroyer in your book? OOOOOOK.

 I would back myself in a Yorck next to this any day and in the open water any T7 Cruiser.  It's role is as a DD killer but if you are supported by other ships it will melt alongside, its not a Battleship hunter or Cruiser hunter in my opinion.  A Bismarck can now sail into a cap and kill Destroyers with Hydro and Secondaries so whats different? A Bismarck can't use stealth to run but it kills all types well so is the Bismarck OP? 

 

Bismarck (although borderline OP in my book) doesn't have Radar, Smoke, Hydro, and 8.7km concealment. So yea, they are really compareable

 

 

Good points also but as I'm sure your aware other ships at T7 have radar and hydro so the HMS Belfast will not operate in a bubble.

Once again, NOPE! Another mistake. On t7, only premium cruiser so far has a radar, and NOT A SINGLE SHIP has access to such a good hydro and radar combined, let alone hydro, smoke and radar. So yes, HMS Belfast WILL operate in a bubble.

 

People allready stated where you are wrong, but you don't want to acknowledge it, and yet you are saying that "If you are wrong, you will say it."
If you say so.

But lets try it this way.

[JiksTBS]

 

Good points also but as I'm sure your aware other ships at T7 have radar and hydro so the HMS Belfast will not operate in a bubble.

 

Atlanta & Indianapolis both have radar at T7, you are quite correct.

 

However, they do not also come equipped with smoke, hydro & the concealment module. It's the obvious synergy between those things that make this, IMO, blatantly OP. Now I could of course be wrong but my concerns are for balance & wasted development resources by WG after this goes on sale for one weekend & then has to be pulled as per the Gremmy & Imp Nic, never to be seen again.

 

You could be right not to be worried, 7th. We will have to agree to disagree, in any case.