US vs Ruski DDs, advice sought.

[Blixies]

Hello,

today I come to this forum seeking an advice from a seasoned captain experienced in both Russian and USS DDs.

 

I'm at tier 6 in both lines and what I have gathered so far is this (feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken):

 

USS DDs:

+ Rapid ROF

+ Better torps at range

+ High arc allows for behind-island-shooting

+ Stealthier

 

- hard to hit at range

- slow (by DD standards)

- low dmg and speed torps

 

Ruski DDs:

+ Better damage of guns (per hit)

+ Higher chance to set fires

+ Easier to hit with (better shell velocity)

+ Faster

 

- bigger target

- worse camo rating

- useless torps unless you get very close

 

What do I have to look forward to in both lines? - Looking for play style tips as well.

 

Which line is overall better in this meta?

 

If you could only pick one line, which one?

 

And lastly, which of the ships in the respective branches did you enjoy the most?

 

Thank you for your time, here's a random ship Catpain.

[ParEx]

I got Benson and Tashkent at the moment, and to be honest, I would not grind Tashkent any further. Nerfhammer hit Tier9+10 quite hard (range nurf), so I will stop here.

Benson is much more fun and versatile than Tashkent, can stealthfire (with skills), stealthtorp, more rounded alltogether.

 

But I fear US DD line will get nerfed soon, IJN and RU already are. And with Benson-Domination in recent teambattles its the only conclusion I have.

[Blixies]

I got Benson and Tashkent at the moment, ant to be honest, I would not grind Tashkent any further. Nerfhammer hit Tier9+10 quite hard (range nurf), so I will stop here.

Benson is much more fun and versatile than Tashkent, can stealthfire (with skills), stealthtorp, more rounded alltogether.

 

But I fear US DD line will get nerfed soon, IJN and RU already are. And with Benson-Domination in recent teambattles its the only conclusion I have.

 

You mean in ranked? I don't think WG is dumb enough to nerf a ship based on ranked mode compared to random battles.

That said I have no idea if the Benson is over-performing in randoms as well.

[Exocet6951]

USN DDs are pure gunboats up to tier6, and as you already analyzed, trade in flat trajectory guns for small ships with better camo compared to VMF DDs, the latter staying pure gunboats until tierX.
That said, at tier7, USN DDs undergo a slight change. Their torpedoes start going further than their spotting distance. They stop being only gunboats and start being multipurpose DDs, capable of shooting and stealth torp'ing.


So if you prefer flexibility over a strict gameplay, USN DDs are simply better for you.
If you think torpedoes are an overrated gimmick and what you really want is to zip around at 40-45 knots while always spotted and being an absolute pest, VMF DDs are better for you.



Ultimately, there is no definitive superior choice as a properly used Udaloi can be as infuriating as a Fletcher.
But large VMF gunboats are quite unforgiving and have a learning curve, and in this BB-heavy meta, having a couple useful torpedoes is always a nice thing to have. So all in all, I think currently, USN DDs have the slightly upper hand, especially since it contains both the truly excellent Benson and Fletcher.

 

EDIT: corrected mistakes because I no iz smart.
 

[Tyrendian89]

you caught the gist of the two lines pretty well already - USN are stealthy multi-role DDs that can do everything pretty well, while the Russkies are pure gunboats that effectively dont even have torps until T8. One additional difference is the fact that USN DDs have vastly superior smoke tho - use it well!

As for upcoming ships for you, in my opinion every single ship in both lines from T7 onward is at least good, and most of them are amazing.

Mahan is the first stealthtorp capable USN DD, while Kiev is just insanely fun to play - NEVER EVER stop shootin' and scootin' with her and you're doing something right. Try not to get hit tho...

Benson is an extremely well-rounded ship with amazing concealment, great guns, good if not amazing torps and the option to grab Defensive AA fire if you div up with a CV. Trashcan on the other hand is pretty much just a waaaay beefier Kiev - gun power is the same, but you get a ton more HP to play with and you finally have torpedoes worthy of the name (3x3 8km is very useful when you're getting pushed somewhere, less so if the enemy is running away...).

Both T9s basically do the same the T8s do, they just do it all a whole lot better. Fletcher is straight up superior to Benson in every single way except identical concealment, and despite what ParEx said Udaloi did not get hit with the nerf bat (that minuscule RoF decrease was a light tap if anything). Still very much capable of gunning down everything in sight.

[Blixies]

That's some great advice right here! Thanks folks.

Any idea where I can fínd the difference between the smoke generators for different branches (or even ships)?

 

EDIT: Also why do u call Russian ships VFM? All I could find is VMF.

[Tyrendian89]

well, ingame for one... but also here: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/42888-repair-cost-and-smoke-duration-charts/

 

[Exocet6951]

 

EDIT: Also why do u call Russian ships VFM? All I could find is VMF.

 

Because I'm a silly, silly man who dun goofed.

[Robber_Baron]

EDIT: Also why do u call Russian ships VFM? All I could find is VMF.

 

Voyenno-Morskoy Flot (Military Maritime Navy). For the larger part of the USSR's existence this was the official name for its navy.

 

The Fletcher is the only Tier 9 I got so far, and while I'm bad in it I still prefer the US DDs. With experience I might get better results. This applies to the Soviet DDs as well of course (currently at the Ognevoi), and the first games in the Leningrad looked promising.

[Kurbain]

I wouldn't call one ship line better than the other.

They are both very good at their roles and you should base your decision upon which playstyle you prefer.

 

If you would like to experience proper destroyer gameplay (sneaking around, capping, stealth-torping, lots of smoke) or if you wanna play ranked, then select the US DDs.

 

If you like playing light cruisers but always felt that they need smoke and shouldn't have a citadel, select the VMF DDs.

 

Or play both. 

[EsaTuunanen]

But I fear US DD line will get nerfed soon, IJN and RU already are.

Yeah, German BBs have the weakest torpedo protection so to protect master race we can expect more use of nerf cannon against anything capable to threatening them.

IJN T4&5 DDs are apparently getting rather notable torpedo nerfs with rework&split of tree.

So wouldn't be wonder if USN high tier torps are next target.

 

 

This applies to the Soviet DDs as well of course (currently at the Ognevoi), and the first games in the Leningrad looked promising.

Leningrad is just "bad example" of later tier Soviet DD.

Unlike tech-tree DDs past T6 it has actually OK stealth, while lacking in gun DPM but having actual torps.

With slow traverse of single gun turrets it's even not so great fit for tech-tree skipper.

[Blixies]

well, ingame for one... but also here: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/42888-repair-cost-and-smoke-duration-charts/

 

Awesome, thanks!

[GulvkluderGuld]

Currently own a fletcher and an Udaloi and halfway to both T X.

You caught the gist of both lines quite well. 

One very important difference you overlooked is the far superior smoke of USN dd.

The other important difference is Fletcher and Gearing can mount Defensive AA whicg makes them able to defend themselves frlm T X CVs quite well and screen bbs too.

 

What to grind depends on what you want to use the ships for. Fun? Ranked? And also your playstyle as you already have described.

T

The Taskent is utter garbage, but the T IX Udaloi is quite possibly the best and most fun dd in the game currently.

A fletcher will beat it in a knifefight sub 6 km, nothing else will. Think of an uptiered blyskawica or pre-nerf Kiev with viable torps and decent concealment (7,2 km) and actually 15 torps, as many as the shima (although it cant put all 15 in the water on the same side). If you want fun, my recommendation. Udaloi is my all time favorite ship.

 

If you want to play ranked, it means T8 and tying into he paragraph above, that means getting a benson.

 

Fletcher has great smoke and torps but it works best im knifefights contesting caps or fighting defensively agaist pushing enemies using smoke and torps, sort of ijn dds.

 

Udaloi is a more aggressive pick, able to easily push capital ships and CAs off caps, but not as good in 1v1 fights. It loses to the fletcher in a straight up fight due to fletchers superior ROF and concealment.On the other hand, it is better at setting fires and pushing out damage than any other dd i played. The other weakness is CV torp drops, although the great turning circle of udaloi helps quite alot.

 

Overall usn dds are best for ranked, while i consider RU dds more fun, but really i recommend you do both, as the two playstyles supplement each other nicely

 

[Kittykami]

I can vouch for the Russian DDs as far as Kiev, they're insanely good fun and a great tool for carrying bad teams in. I've heard some bad things about 'Trashkent' but Udaloi and Kebab are supposed to be awesome. 

 

I enjoyed Kiev so much I engaged good goy mode and bought the permanent camo for her. 

[BadGene616]

I personally thought the ognevoi was a horrendous ship, regularly used to finish a game with no turrets left, but this may have been buffed.

 

Kiev is the gem of the Russian line. But, needs good situational awareness and decent captain skills to make the best of it.

 

Tashkent is a dog in my opinion, too big, too easy to hit,

 

Udaloi was amazing, lots of useful torpedoes and guns to fap over. But... Been hit with a nerf hammer on range due to crying battleship driving children. Same for khabab.

 

Benson is the ship you wish mahan was... And fletcher is the ship you wish Benson was. It's lovely. Gearing has some serious punch against lighter ships but doesn't have the godmode khabab ap against heavier ones.

 

But... As a poster above said there will probably be nerfs to usn dd as well to cater to the bb community.

 

The heavier the sheep the lower the iq...

[Panocek]

I'd like to add Russian torps from tier 8 onwards are actually good - yes, they are slow, still shortish ranged, don't carry nuclear warheads compared to Fletcher or hightier IJN torps, but they have shortest reaction time from when they are spotted.

 

Udaloi RoF nerf is superficial (0.4s IIRC), but losing 2km range on Kebab is painful

[row72]

Or you buy a premium Loo Yang what is the same as the benson the only thing what is different is the torp dmg , its lower on the Loo Yang. Because it is a premium ship maybe it wouldnt get nerfed. But still i get the most damage with my Mutsuki DD aldo you have to stay stealth, fight with a US or Russian DD will get you killed in it very easy because the guns have a too long reload time.

[Fino_93]

In my opinion: in random battles the russian dd lines is better, you Always find someone that cap for the team and a perfect target for you, and you can doi a massive damage from the max range while the while enemy team shoot at you without hitting, without the recent nerf they were even OP, now they are only "strong"

 

In ranked instead the DDs must cap and/or fight enemy DDs at close distance at the beginning of most of the matches, so American multi role cruisers Are the best for obious reasons,

[Tyrendian89]

Or you buy a premium Loo Yang what is the same as the benson the only thing what is different is the torp dmg , its lower on the Loo Yang. Because it is a premium ship maybe it wouldnt get nerfed. But still i get the most damage with my Mutsuki DD aldo you have to stay stealth, fight with a US or Russian DD will get you killed in it very easy because the guns have a too long reload time.

 

uh...yeah... no it isnt. Key differences include:

-only access to 4-gun C hull

-significantly worse torpedoes as you noted

-access to Hydroacoustic, which is unique for a DD and very powerful if used right

[row72]

 

uh...yeah... no it isnt. Key differences include:

-only access to 4-gun C hull

-significantly worse torpedoes as you noted

-access to Hydroacoustic, which is unique for a DD and very powerful if used right

 

On Loo yang there is acces to Hydroacoustics only you have to give up your speedboost for it.

[Tyrendian89]

 

On Loo yang there is acces to Hydroacoustics only you have to give up your speedboost for it.

 

who cares about speedboost... most useless consumable in the entire game...

[Blixies]

I don't want to start a new thread so I just ask around here:

 

I have noticed that higher tier (6+?) US destroyers have a choice between 5 guns (hull B) and 4 guns + slightly netter AA (hull C).

Some of the C hulls also have better rudder shift times. The guns' characteristics seem to remain the same.

 

Is there even a point of going C hull? Yesterday on the PTR I tried the Benson with C hull against Independence and I have failed to shoot down a single plane, even with AA Defensive fire activated.

Maybe you guys have different experiences, but I truly wonder if the C hulls are the way to go, or just a waste of XP/credits AND firepower.

[row72]

I don't want to start a new thread so I just ask around here:

 

I have noticed that higher tier (6+?) US destroyers have a choice between 5 guns (hull B) and 4 guns + slightly netter AA (hull C).

Some of the C hulls also have better rudder shift times. The guns' characteristics seem to remain the same.

 

Is there even a point of going C hull? Yesterday on the PTR I tried the Benson with C hull against Independence and I have failed to shoot down a single plane, even with AA Defensive fire activated.

Maybe you guys have different experiences, but I truly wonder if the C hulls are the way to go, or just a waste of XP/credits AND firepower.

 

Who is using AA on a DD anyway it will only detect you. Me personally will only use AA when i am close to a BB for example and the enemy is at range, or when planes attacking and already detecting me. For this i will not use the C hull because that extra gun is far more important then some extra AA.

[beercrazy]

 

who cares about speedboost... most useless consumable in the entire game...

 

only thing speed boost helps with is getting to cap faster at start of game and lets be honest here that usually aint always the best thing you can do at the start

I often play in a division and my division pal will always take the speed boost in American dds whereas I will take the anti air consumable and he moans and groans when he gets spotted by aircraft but I usually just shoot the suckers down and in my sims I have gotten lots of games with 10+ kills of aircraft and its a life saver in any game with a carrier because they soon give up and leave you alone

[Tyrendian89]

I don't want to start a new thread so I just ask around here:

 

I have noticed that higher tier (6+?) US destroyers have a choice between 5 guns (hull B) and 4 guns + slightly netter AA (hull C).

Some of the C hulls also have better rudder shift times. The guns' characteristics seem to remain the same.

 

Is there even a point of going C hull? Yesterday on the PTR I tried the Benson with C hull against Independence and I have failed to shoot down a single plane, even with AA Defensive fire activated.

Maybe you guys have different experiences, but I truly wonder if the C hulls are the way to go, or just a waste of XP/credits AND firepower.

 

regular Benson player in high level competitive play here, so might as well elaborate on this...

In a competitive setting, where you pretty much know you're going to run into an enemy Shokaku (often with Strike setup these days) that is damn good at what he does every match, having Defensive Fire is pretty much mandatory to allow you to leave the cover of your fleet at all. If you don't have it (or if you're, say, a Fubuki) you are extremely vulnerable to taking a lot of damage or even dying to the enemy's full strike wing if you get caught out without support from your own CV. With DefFire, the panic means it's very unlikely even the best of CV players will hit more than one torpedo on you, let alone a bomb. And even if that just forces the planes away for a minute, that minute gives your own CV time to cover you again. Plus, it's pretty common that when a cruiser gets nuked you will be using your DefAA to disrupt an enemy strike on your BBs that you are supporting. And you do shoot down the occasional plane as well, which doesnt hurt... The fifth gun, on the other hand, isnt nearly as critical because DDs dont use their guns all that often, lest they get focused to bits in seconds.

Now, this all turns around completely for random games. You dont run into that many CVs, they are usually not nearly as good so a well-played Benson should be able to dodge most of them anyway. And you end up in a LOT more gunfights against enemy DDs as well as stealthfiring the occasional capital ship, and you will not get focused nearly as hard usually when spotted. So, for randoms, B hull is definitely the way to go 99% of the time (the exception being maybe if you div up with a CV and want to be cheeky, but even then... I'd just tell my buddy to cover me or get yelled at )