Favorite shipgirl (Kancolle,Azur lane, Arpeggio of blue steel,Haifuri)

[LOZFFVII]

1 hour ago, WWDragon said:

I am only doing the 1 free daily build since I did my final 10 pull and got Le Terrible

Welp, I guess it's up to you if you want to lose out on event points. The event shops tend to be packed with useful stuff, even if you ignore the event ships/gear.

1 hour ago, WWDragon said:

I was going to skip Grindman due to /a/ shillposting that made me hate the series.

Oh, and here I thought you'd have an actual reason to dislike Gridman.

1 hour ago, WWDragon said:

Well I dont think its everyone, the teaboos are saying its of course a Royal Navy ship.

I'm inclined to agree with them, given how long it's been since the last RN event.

1 hour ago, WWDragon said:

I am thinking its Soyuz only because the event schedule doesnt give that much breathing room, we know Grindman is in the works since the anniversary and its going to be relative soon simply because its been announced for over a month now, I dont think its going to be in March next year simply because of the announcement timing.

I'm so confused by this statement.

So, you (in your infinite inexperience of playing this game) think that a rerun event will suddenly turn into a UR event? I'm 100% certain that that isn't going to happen. Reruns do not add ships that are super-important to acquire, just little extras to incentivise long-time players who already have all the ships from the first time the event was run to not just skip the event in its entirety.

Le Malin, Le Terrible, Ingraham, Tosa, etc. More-or-less just ships you want for collection rather than because they're super-important.

I doubt that they'll set it up so that individual members of a class are given UR status outside of retrofits (because retros are special cases), rather I believe that if one member of a class is UR then all members of that class will be UR (so far, the only base UR ship we have that not a one-of-a-kind is New Jersey, and she's probably the least famous of her sisters - Shinano is technically a class of her own, although her placement as UR makes it safe to assume Yamato-class will be UR). Thus I believe it is safe to say that Sovetsky Soyuz will be SR along with her sisters (this applies to Johnston and Jervis, whom I've seen comments on reddit asking for them to be UR, but whom I think will be SR at most).

Also, who said anything about March?

 

1 hour ago, WWDragon said:

Personally I would like a Bismark UR (as it should) that makes totally sense considering AL is the reverse of WOWS (look at FdG, the number of soviet ships vs IJN ships)

Okay, okay, so first you're gonna call out "teaboos" for wanting an RN UR, but then you're going to go ahead and show off how much of a wehraboo you are without a hint of irony?

The second part doesn't even make any sense.

[WWDragon]

4 hours ago, LOZFFVII said:

Welp, I guess it's up to you if you want to lose out on event points. The event shops tend to be packed with useful stuff, even if you ignore the event ships/gear.

I already got 3 Jeannes, Bearn dropped 3 times and brought the CA golden gun.

 

Quote

Oh, and here I thought you'd have an actual reason to dislike Gridman.

 

Its good enough reason, especially when it comes to /a/ shitposting  when its one of the forced studio wars ... its Trigger and back then there was a attempt at forcing a studio war with Trigger and KyoAni that makes any of those series rather insufferable to see because it invariable devolved into shtposting.

 

At best I have no interest on Grindman and at worst I rather ignore it, I mean ... its not like I have a reason to try get all the ships because its impossible, cannot get DOAXVV collab shipsgirls for example unless for some reason it gets a rerun.

 

Quote

I'm so confused by this statement.

 

OK, let me put this way then as far I see there are no "rules" about UR ships because Dreamwaker's Butterfly was last year and that was followed in May by Mirror Involution, at that point everyone started to assume that construction UR would only be by the anniversary events of the CN and JP servers (not EN since its too close to JP) that was somewhat confirmed by the Upon the Shimmering Blue running on JP anniversary ... but then come the announcement there would another UR ship being released before the end of the year in construction so that thrown that idea out.

 

Let me be honest, I really dont think they will add a UR on a event rerun and Northern Overture will be in January, I also believed that Dreamwaker's Butterfly  would be the rerun and it can be, there is nothing that says they wont do it, in fact eventually they have to tackle with UR construction outside events, UR are not meant to be exclusive ships and eventually will have to be added to the general construction pool but at the same time, nothing says they wont add a UR as new construction on a event rerun, we have to see how Dreamwaker's Butterfly is handled before that.

 

Quote

Okay, okay, so first you're gonna call out "teaboos" for wanting an RN UR, but then you're going to go ahead and show off how much of a wehraboo you are without a hint of irony?

 

Last time I checked RN had Warsprite refit as UR  and Drake as a Decisive, Sakura and Eagle have more but that shouldnt come as a surprise as IB have two Decisive.

 

Bismarck should be UR because the ship have a perhaps undeserving mystic but have one, just like Yamato that did not much either or even the Iowas that mostly ended up doing fire support but they all have it, look at any list about battleships and they all be there, this is why I feel it should been a UR ship because its part of our collective when it comes to battleships, not because "its better" or because of her battle record but because its a point of reference, the RN doesnt get one but its not as if people wont think of HMS Victory or think the RN was weak but rather there wasnt much of a naval battle in the Atlantic when it comes to surface ships compared with the Pacific and the Mediterranean is glossed over and since the most notable is the sinking of Bismarck, its impossible to escape her.

 

And that is why I feel it should been, I mean if Yamato or Iowas are just SR I will complain too because they too are part of our collective conscience when it comes to battleships.

 

Besides, nothing really stops AL to start adding WW I era ships, Mikasa is in the game after all as well Erabus and Terror so they could very well bring those as well, I mean I wouldnt mind seeing Dreadnought as there is plenty for then to add before going all Wargaming.

[LastButterfly]

13 hours ago, WWDragon said:

there wasnt much of a naval battle in the Atlantic when it comes to surface ships compared with the Pacific and the Mediterranean is glossed over and since the most notable is the sinking of Bismarck, its impossible to escape her.

It is not impressive to be "the most notable naval battle" out of a campaign that had "not many naval battles" as you claim.

 

Also, plus don't speak with a plural first person. My personal collective conscience when it comes to battleships is mostly centered on Littorio, not Bismarck, Yamato or Iowa.

[LOZFFVII]

10 hours ago, LastButterfly said:

It is not impressive to be "the most notable naval battle" out of a campaign that had "not many naval battles" as you claim.

I believe we call that an Overly Narrow Superlative.

 

23 hours ago, WWDragon said:

I already got 3 Jeannes, Bearn dropped 3 times and brought the CA golden gun.

On 11/4/2021 at 11:25 PM, LOZFFVII said:

The event shops tend to be packed with useful stuff, even if you ignore the event ships/gear.

Take note of the bolded part. I was talking about the OTHER really good stuff in the event shop, like PR blueprints (fyi, even though they are labelled "IV", you can use them on ships from PR1-3 - or you could even stock up on them to use them on that one particular PR ship you've been waiting for).

 

23 hours ago, WWDragon said:

Its good enough reason, especially when it comes to /a/ shitposting

In other words, if you didn't put so much value into the internet's cesspool (i.e. 4chan) you wouldn't have a reason to dislike Gridman.

Not that I'm trying to force you into liking it, as I don't even care about it myself. I'm just going to get the ships because I have 100% events up to this point. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

23 hours ago, WWDragon said:

Bismarck should be UR because the ship have a perhaps undeserving mystic but have one, just like Yamato that did not much either or even the Iowas that mostly ended up doing fire support but they all have it, look at any list about battleships and they all be there, this is why I feel it should been a UR ship because its part of our collective when it comes to battleships, not because "its better" or because of her battle record but because its a point of reference, the RN doesnt get one but its not as if people wont think of HMS Victory or think the RN was weak but rather there wasnt much of a naval battle in the Atlantic when it comes to surface ships compared with the Pacific and the Mediterranean is glossed over and since the most notable is the sinking of Bismarck, its impossible to escape her.

By this same metric, the ships that sank Biscuit should have been UR, too.

I mean, they're famous because they sank the famous Biscuit, right?

KGV, Rodney, Arc Royal, Victorious. Hell, even Hood should be UR by the same damn metric for how famous she is.

Enterprise should be UR because of how stupidly famous she is.

Do you see why ubiquity is a stupid metric, now?

 

Non-retrofit Ultra Rare ships up to this point have been based more on a "technological capability" metric. The Iowa-class are "the best BBs the USN ever made", the Yamato-class (and Shinano-class by association) are "the best the IJN could build", and FdG is "the best the KM could hope for".

Was Biscuit the best the KM could build? Maybe, but I think most armchair historians (that aren't going full wehraboo mode) would probably agree that Hitler was right to abandon plans for a full surface fleet and instead focus on thousands of submarines to cripple shipping. Honestly, if there's one KM ship that deserves UR status it'd be Prinz Eugen - she was basically the only KM surface ship to survive the whole war* (and she's been powercrept enough in-game to warrant a possible UR retrofit).

*I personally don't know of any others.

Aside from Eugen, I agree with LastButterfly that we should expect UR Subs in the future.

[Panocek]

Meanwhile Prinz Eugen gets l2d Race Queen skin

Spoiler

I'm not really fond of her, but if its well animated... who knows 

 

[WWDragon]

Yes, that was announced in the JP birthday stream ... I think it wasnt ready when they announced it.

[Zemeritt]

11 hours ago, Panocek said:

I'm not really fond of her, but if its well animated... who knows 

 

It's also not by her original artist.

 

Usually these Race Queen skins aren't my turf, but Eugens and Entys make me weak.

[Pururut]

I have started preparing for World 14. While checking out Just3c and wiki I have realized how much I have lagged behind in PR research and end game gear. The depot was a pure nightmare on its own; a mind numbing amount of gold torpedoes, lots of inferior gold AA, purple sub torps and else. It took a while but I have completely reorganized; gear count dropped from 290 to 127. Created two additional fleets for PVP and PR research which are also used for Operation Siren. I should be able to catch up in half a year.

 

Regarding Eugens new skin... I wish they gave her a retrofit instead. Iron Blood can use some help with its very limited roster of effective vanguard ships. 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

 

[LastButterfly]

On 11/6/2021 at 2:29 AM, LOZFFVII said:

The Iowa-class are "the best BBs the USN ever made"

 

Nah, they could totally have made better if they had wanted to. Like, make a torpedo protection that, perhaps, could protect against torpedoes. They had litterally made it two classes prior so it's not like they couldn't... More like they just didn't.

 

On 11/6/2021 at 2:29 AM, LOZFFVII said:

the Yamato-class [....] are "the best the IJN could build"

 

Oh boi oh boi. Where do I start ? Maybe having a ship that guzzles fuel down thrice as fast as any other battleship is not a good idea when you have oil problems. To be fair, if memory serves, Yamato's boiler model was a derivative of Hatsuharu's, sooo... Oh yeah,  and there was the belt too. Purposefully keeping the quality of the metal used for your armor at the level of the last war is, also, a questionnable choice.

 

On 11/6/2021 at 2:29 AM, LOZFFVII said:

she was basically the only KM surface ship to survive the whole war*

*I personally don't know of any others.

Nürnberg.

Leipzig technically made it, but in a pretty bad shape. I also want to give a honorable mention to Emden - she was scuttled in 45, but like Leipzig, it's not like she was brand new when it happened.

 

More destroyers made it tho. Z4,5,6,10,14,15,20,25,29,30,31,33,37,38,39...

...
DDs without names are so boring.

 

On 11/6/2021 at 2:29 AM, LOZFFVII said:

Hood should be UR by the same damn metric for how famous she is.

 

... Can we say infamous ? I think we can say infamous...

[LOZFFVII]

12 hours ago, LastButterfly said:

Nah, they could totally have made better if they had wanted to. Like, make a torpedo protection that, perhaps, could protect against torpedoes. They had litterally made it two classes prior so it's not like they couldn't... More like they just didn't.

 

Oh boi oh boi. Where do I start ? Maybe having a ship that guzzles fuel down thrice as fast as any other battleship is not a good idea when you have oil problems. To be fair, if memory serves, Yamato's boiler model was a derivative of Hatsuharu's, sooo... Oh yeah,  and there was the belt too. Purposefully keeping the quality of the metal used for your armor at the level of the last war is, also, a questionnable choice.

I mean...you're probably not wrong here (you're waaaaaaaaaay more versed in the topic than I am), but a part of me can't help but think "surely isn't a part of what you say forged in hindsight?"

Ofcourse, if given infinite time, infinite knowledge and infinite resources basically all navies of the time period could have done better; but given they only had what time, knowledge and resources they had at the time I think they do fall under a "best of" category.

But hey, I'm just the lay man here.

 

12 hours ago, LastButterfly said:

Nürnberg.

Leipzig technically made it, but in a pretty bad shape. I also want to give a honorable mention to Emden - she was scuttled in 45, but like Leipzig, it's not like she was brand new when it happened.

 

More destroyers made it tho. Z4,5,6,10,14,15,20,25,29,30,31,33,37,38,39...

...
DDs without names are so boring.

Thank you for enlightening me.

I wasn't aware that both Nurnberg and Leipzig survived, so that was a surprise.

Also surprising how many DDs survived, although I suppose that could be because they weren't as valuable targets as capital ships.

[WWDragon]

On 11/6/2021 at 1:29 AM, LOZFFVII said:

By this same metric, the ships that sank Biscuit should have been UR, too.

Khorovod of Dawn's Rime ...

Quote

We have always thought that a ship's foundational hull is inseparable from its history. In essence, this history is supposed to be a sum of humanity's perceptions and notions about the ship.

 

A hull is widely considered a prerequisite to a ship's construction, even for mass-produced ships. By extension, a history is a prerequisite.

 

All this is to say, a shipgirl's history is her proof of existence. Even if she was only dreamed up in blueprints.

 

 

This was about blueprint ships and also pointing out Soyuz, Rossiya and Belorussiya werent under blueprint ships as Freidrich was and pointing out there were many shipgirls that were similar to the Sovetskaya sisters, ships that werent given form but arent blueprint ships, we have Tosa and Amagi that were incomplete but existed but then you have the Kii were they were cancelled as their keel was being laid, not sure how far they were in that process, Kii and Owari were named but 11 and 12 were never named so should Suruga be a blueprint ship?

 

Anyway, the point was shipgirls core is the humanity perception of the ship, blueprint shipgirls are a oddity but considering so is the commander, its kinda being presented that they are alternative realities were they were build or something like that ... but anyway ...

 

The point is that shipgirls, not blueprint, are supposed to be how they are perceived by humanity collective concience so this is why Iowas would be viewed as very strong with the Sovetskaya being the "Soviet Iowas" but lacking a actual history to be considered as strong and this is why I said the Iowas along the Yamatos should be UR because they are perceived as the ultimate battleships, Bismarck also have a strong perception but not Tirpiz just to point out history is based on the individual ship and not the class as a whole.

 

Of course they can do whatever they want, just pointing out my reasoning based on how the game puts up their own system.

[LOZFFVII]

@WWDragon, what is that supposed to prove, other than you've spent too much time on the Azur Lane wiki trying to find something to one-up me (and failing, as it just as much confirms what I said as it confirms what you said)?

 

EDIT: You really should just write out everything you want to say before hitting "post". It makes it WAY too easy to stumble upon something that isn't even finished yet and have no clue as to what you are on about.

 

40 minutes ago, WWDragon said:

 Bismarck also have a strong perception but not Tirpiz just to point out history is based on the individual ship and not the class as a whole.

The thing is, both Biscuit sisters are famous more for being sunk than anything else.

A pair of fairly well-armoured BBs (apart from the rudder!) would never be capable of seriously taking on the entirety of the RN, even in the weakened state that they were in during WW2.

Iowas? Were still in use in the 90s.

Yamatos? Biggest ever built with the biggest guns ever equipped.

Bismarck? Killed one ship, then got hunted like an animal.

Tirpitz? Sat around, got sunk.

Even though the Yamatos basically sat around in port for most of their careers, they still had a claim to fame through design and construction.

 

But hey, this is still the game that made Ryuuhou an SR, so the devs can do whatever they please. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[LastButterfly]

4 hours ago, LOZFFVII said:

I wasn't aware that both Nurnberg and Leipzig survived, so that was a surprise.

Nürnberg is kinda the one to remember the most, since she was if memory serves the only KM ship to see significant post-war use, and the longest-surviving KM big KM ship - big as in bigger than a DD. She was transferred to the USSR and event spent some time as flagship of the soviet 8th fleet.

 

4 hours ago, LOZFFVII said:

"surely isn't a part of what you say forged in hindsight?"

Heeeeeeeeeeey, let me make fun of past people's stupid mistakes >.<"

 

Jokes aside, yeah, sure, there were reasons. Like, the japanese had a reason not to use high quality metal for Yamato's armor - that it would make it weaker to a torpedo hit's vibration or something. It was a bad reason, but yeah, they tryied something. So, yeah, "there was an attempt" or something, sure.

 

But Iowa's torpedo protection - or lack thereof... - doesn't get a pass. It was catastrophic, AND they clearly knew how to make a good one since that on North Carolina was very good, AND when they realized it was catastrophic they started playing the blame game instead of fixing the problem. Mockery, whether in hindsight or not, is wholly deserved.

Also Iowa's always praised as the "perfect battleship", so it's important to remind people once in a while that GOD no she was not. The "best" is open for debate, but "perfect" is definitely not.

[WWDragon]

4 minutes ago, LOZFFVII said:

@WWDragon, what is that supposed to prove, other than you've spent too much time on the Azur Lane wiki trying to find something to one-up me (and failing, as it just as much confirms what I said as it confirms what you said)?

Point being collective perception of the ship, you could simply pointed out Shimakaze rarity and leave it at that since you can guess exactly why its UR.

[LastButterfly]

43 minutes ago, WWDragon said:

the Sovetskaya being the "Soviet Iowas" but lacking a actual history to be considered as strong

 

No, that's the exact contrary. People tend to overestimate the capabilities of a design, and often historical events very much tone down what otherwise are considered absolutely perfect designs.

also :

 

45 minutes ago, WWDragon said:

Iowas along the Yamatos should be UR because they are perceived as the ultimate battleships, Bismarck also have a strong perception

 

Bismarck was one of the two worst battleships of the last generation. I don't really know whether I should put her before or after KGV. But no, there's no such perception of Bismarck being anywhere close to ultimate, except amongst some small hardline wheraboo communities. Even then, some wheraboos are capable of admitting she was not amazing.

 

Don't mistake "what you blindly believe" for what you call "collective perception".

[WWDragon]

14 minutes ago, LastButterfly said:

Don't mistake "what you blindly believe" for what you call "collective perception".

If I google best battleships I get this ...

 

https://news.yahoo.com/best-battleships-ever-5-greatest-040000904.html?guccounter=1&amp;guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&amp;guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALLmKk8Tu6exAybrBrwQDOMF_mIG_8M0JtObbUlOU3NvWW_wQEzTKIAqDdWJkIzQjB7e9xv-ckXqbtjcs8ZKhMTiSUtXp3KHnh4yEezcuyqC0oQDoP8y6o-9MxBgotnK6LweWULdjDEUll124vKJ2iG4RHpfbotsaWBKvBbxV_mZ

 

I am well aware of failures and errors, Bismarck for example was a mess considering they didnt really had a idea of what the ship was meant to do so you had a ship more at home at the Baltic that the Atlantic that was typical of the German ship development as well her turret configuration was due to their belief that triple or quadruple would lower the rate of fire due to a smaller compartment and I wouldnt need to say anything about her fatal flaw, they had reasons to do it that way but on hindsight that was a big mistake.

 

Yet the ship continue to exist on our collective perception, yes ... the large majority of people will think it was some superbattleship and why? because she sunk the Mighty Hood, the legend of the ship exists a lot due to the British having to save face over Hood as well a propaganda over sinking the German uberbattleship of doom ... just because if you look at it objectively you start noticing the flaws dont change the majority of people arent looking at that, their perception is clouded by not only ignorance but colored by propaganda that continues to this day.

 

If you are going to argue Bismarck is considered by most people as the worst battleship ever and complete crap then I am sorry, that is not true ... the wartime perception of the ship remains for most people, as flawed it might be, that is what they " blindly believe".

 

And in AL perception is important, not for "lore" but because if they dared made the Yamato, a ship the Japanese still have it high consideration, a Elite ship because "well, she wasnt that great" you can get the backlash would be immense, same with the Iowas because if Montana, the ship were Japan surrendered, was just a SR you can bet the Americans would be livid over it as well ...

 

Shimakaze  is UR because KanColle, not because of any other reason.

[LastButterfly]

15 minutes ago, WWDragon said:

snip

 

Did you read the article you posted ? I think you just scrolled down until you saw Bismarck written somewhere, then closed the page. Here's an interesting bit you missed :

 

Quote

Herewith, my list of history's five most iconic battleships,

 

Your source are capable of ackowledging that they are subjective and you're trying to use them to prove that Bismarck was objectively mighty and important. So in short :

 

18 minutes ago, WWDragon said:

the wartime perception of the ship remains for most people, as flawed it might be, that is what they " blindly believe".

 

No, no, and a thousand times no. "People" don't blindly believe that. "You" and "your KM loving friends" do. "Some other" do. But "most people" don't, no matter how much you wish they would.

[LOZFFVII]

1 hour ago, WWDragon said:

Point being collective perception of the ship, you could simply pointed out Shimakaze rarity and leave it at that since you can guess exactly why its UR.

I edited my response after realising you had edited yours.

[LastButterfly]

1 hour ago, LOZFFVII said:

The thing is, both Biscuit sisters are famous more for being sunk than anything else.

Are you sure you should say something like that ? I mean, you are british...

(sorry if I poke too much. I've been kinda starved on speaking about ships recently)

 

1 hour ago, LOZFFVII said:

But hey, this is still the game that made Ryuuhou an SR, so the devs can do whatever they please. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I am now 13% more interested in azur lane. Also 59% confused. I mean, sure, making a failure of sub tender, and then deciding to not only keep the thing, but to convert it in a failure of a light carrier is unique and quite incredible, but...

Do they have interesting, well rated destroyers, or is it like, reserved to big ships and failed converted light carriers ?

[LOZFFVII]

35 minutes ago, LastButterfly said:

Are you sure you should say something like that ? I mean, you are british...

(sorry if I poke too much. I've been kinda starved on speaking about ships recently)

Oh, sure, there was the threat during the time of the damage they could do to shipping if allowed to roam freely in the Atlantic, so they certainly kept the good ol' boys (and girls) in Bletchley busy, but in terms of actual combat prowess, what did either Biscuit achieve?

A lucky shot.

A lucky shot that was compounded by years of our own admiralty failing to modernise an outdated relic of a previous conflict, further compounded by our navy prioritising whether their ships looked clean rather than actually being combat ready.

The Hood sinking was basically inevitable. Just a matter of time before it went the way of a certain White Star Liner only more spectacularly.

 

Oh, and I've already mentioned that for anything WW2, I'm more of a Yankeeaboo/Weeaboo.

 

35 minutes ago, LastButterfly said:

I am now 13% more interested in azur lane. Also 59% confused. I mean, sure, making a failure of sub tender, and then deciding to not only keep the thing, but to convert it in a failure of a light carrier is unique and quite incredible, but...

Do they have interesting, well rated destroyers, or is it like, reserved to big ships and failed converted light carriers ?

There are plenty of SR DDs, CLs and CAs. There doesn't seem to be any specific pattern, as you get, say, the Kagerou-class that stretches all the way from Normal Rare to Super Rare (Shiranui -Normal Rare, Kagerou -Rare, Nowaki -Elite Rare, Yukikaze -Super Rare). It seems to be based on history/technology/fame, or could be completely arbitrary as poor neglected Fletcher is only a "Rare", not even getting a retrofit to bolster that.

Notably, Royal Navy is the only faction in game to not have a base SR DD (Javelin gets a retrofit that upgrades her to SR, but all retrofits come with a rarity upgrade so that's not impressive). I think most fans are expecting Jervis to be either SR or UR (the next one up from SR), Lightning-class could also be SR.

[Zemeritt]

20 hours ago, LOZFFVII said:

The thing is, both Biscuit sisters are famous more for being sunk than anything else.

A pair of fairly well-armoured BBs (apart from the rudder!) would never be capable of seriously taking on the entirety of the RN, even in the weakened state that they were in during WW2.

Iowas? Were still in use in the 90s.

Yamatos? Biggest ever built with the biggest guns ever equipped.

Bismarck? Killed one ship, then got hunted like an animal.

Tirpitz? Sat around, got sunk.

Even though the Yamatos basically sat around in port for most of their careers, they still had a claim to fame through design and construction.

 

As bad as a design the Bismarck and Tirpitz were: Both had a bigger impact on the war than the Yamatos could ever dream of.

Yes, Bismarck was thrown away, got a lucky shot, karma hit her rudder (including a dumb admiral) and the RN swarm her to death.

 

However: The RN was cautious around her sister afterwards, wasting ressources trying to sink her and use large ships as escort groups for the northern convois.

 

And the Yamatos? Were mostly kept a secret, never really threated the US navy and the supply chains.

If look at them, both were just target practice for the air wings of the US Navy.

But both Yamatos never forced the US Navy to waste as much ressources as the RN did with the Tirpitz.

 

So if you look on their effect on the war, the Bismarcks should be higher rated than the Yamatos.

 

The designs were both flawed (the former moreso than the latter) and not up to the tasks required of a 2WW BB.

That role was best filled by the US BBs, making them floating AA batteries, escorting the new queens of the oceans: the carriers.

[LastButterfly]

37 minutes ago, Zemeritt said:

That role was best filled by the US BBs, making them floating AA batteries, escorting the new queens of the oceans: the carriers.

 

The later US BBs. In other words, Iowa - and to an extent Sodak, debatably. The distinction is important, because North Carolina when commissioned in the USN had not much of an AA suite beyond the DP batteries, excepted the fantastic chicago piano and a few 12.7mm, and no radar to boot ; and she came after Bismarck, Richelieu, Littorio and KGV which all had a comparable or better AA suite upon commission (except KGV. I'm sorry, but KGV really doesn't have anything going for her. Oh, wait, she had a radar at launch. Not that it made the Up rockets any better, but, yay, radar). Not even the US anticipated the correct way to make a battleship for WWII ahead of time.

[Marblehead_1]

20 hours ago, LastButterfly said:

Bismarck was one of the two worst battleships of the last generation. I don't really know whether I should put her before or after KGV. But no, there's no such perception of Bismarck being anywhere close to ultimate, except amongst some small hardline wheraboo communities. Even then, some wheraboos are capable of admitting she was not amazing.

 

Sorry for everybody for my interruption in discussion and adding few loose thoughts. 

 

So far I only see that DKM ships got most numerous psycho-fans beyond all major navies both in WoWs and anime games with mental fap to the Bismarck being Olympus Mons high. Let's remind how big mental masturbation and worship happened beyond AL players when Roon and FdG were announced ( happily it's past ) or with Bismarck in can't colle. Anyway as I told few times here I'm not a weeb and fact that I play one anime mobile game ( AL ) and quitted play another on PC ( KC ) did not make me weeb in any way, so I bet there are more reasons for this adoration. For me it's just utterly stupid but I saw many stupid things in life so it's nothing suprising.

 

DKM ships are one of most played ships in WoWs and most desired characters by players in anime games. In scale modelling they have many various kits made by various producers, falling only to the IJN and their ships but IJN in scale modelling is state of mind. I'm not even try to present how scale modelling proportions looks for land forces as it's going to be even more ridiculous in case of WWII Germany.  Some ships were like celebrities - famous from being famous. 

 

About some disscusions about rarity and usefulless of characters. What if it's sometimes had little common with history? Personally I don't have problem with this.

[Marblehead_1]

20 hours ago, LastButterfly said:

Bismarck was one of the two worst battleships of the last generation. I don't really know whether I should put her before or after KGV. But no, there's no such perception of Bismarck being anywhere close to ultimate, except amongst some small hardline wheraboo communities. Even then, some wheraboos are capable of admitting she was not amazing.

 

Sorry for everybody for my interruption in discussion and adding few loose thoughts. 

 

So far I only see that DKM ships got most numerous psycho-fans beyond all major navies both in WoWs and anime games with mental fap to the Bismarck being Olympus Mons highz. Let's remind how big mental masturbation and worship happened beyond AL players when Roon and FdG were announced ( happily it's past ) or with Bismarck in can't colle. Anyway as I told few times here I'm not a weeb and fact that I play one anime mobile game ( AL ) and quitted play another on PC ( KC ) did not make me weeb in any way, so I bet there are more reasons for this adoration. For me it's just utterly stupid but I saw many stupid things in life so it's nothing suprising.

 

DKM ships are one of most played ships in WoWs and most desired characters by players in anime games. In scale modelling they have many various kits made by various producers, falling only to the IJN and their ships but IJN in scale modelling is state of mind. I'm not even try to present how scale modelling proportions looks for land forces as it's going to be even more ridiculous in case of WWII Germany.  Some ships were like celebrities - famous from being famous. 

 

About some disscusions about rarity and usefulless of characters. What if it's sometimes had little common with history? Personally I don't have problem with this.