Low Tier US Carriers are way too OP

[Sticky_Icky]

I wont whine too much...

 

picture speaks for itself

 

and this is regular. whenever its a fighter build bogue on the other side, this happens.

 

The previous of this game i ended with only one ribbon: [1 Plane Destroyed].... ONE.... with two full squads of Fighers and rear gunners and AA I was able to kill ONE of his planes, while he killed all 30 of mine

 

Also, their AA is ridiculous too. in the picture attached, after he raped one full squadron of everything, i decided to go straight for the bogue.

his planes werent there, but he managed to leave me with 1 Torpedo bomber and 3 of my fighters... only with its AA...

 

now this is ridiculous and not fun, and unbalanced as it gets. please adress or i wont have the strength to do all this tedious, ridiculous and frustrating grind to higher tier IJN CVs...

[snipershot]

Im thinking you came up against a cv seal clubber and a high point captain. Could be wrong but..

[Shaka_D]

Wait, an OP US carrier? Where is this unicorn?

[ColonelPete]

You have to fight together with your team. This can mitigate his air superiority.

And still, I am pretty sure you did more damage in the battle than him.

[Lin3]

I don't see anything OP at all about that. Your team was winning apart from no one on your team taking on the responsibility to decap. And that's hardly down to any CV being OP is it? That's just down to poor play and not reacting in time to what was happening on the mini-map - IE enemy breaking through in the north.

[Ictogan]

You've still done more damage than him in that battle.

You're not fighting against an OP ship, you're fighting against the cancer that AS loadouts are at a tier at which reserve planes basically don't exist.

[Sticky_Icky]

You've still done more damage than him in that battle.

 

I dont find that very encouraging tbh...

 

games against IJN are fun and balanced, games against USN are frustrating and not fun and unbalanced. simple as that.

 

The difference is huge.

 

what should i do? wait for him to die somehow so i can be of use to my team? do the ninja [planes around map] tactic and hope for the best? (which in fact didnt really work, i only landed two torps and a fire on him before he kills all my planes)

 

what should i do? am i a bad player? i dont consider myself a bad player

(literally next game, and a ranked one too)

 

Please help. i dont wanna whine for no reason. i am either looking for validation on my arguements, or a helpful reply that gives a solution to my problems

[Tyrendian89]

Yes, AS Bogue is probably the worst thing at T5, if not the entire game. Completely crap design. Two things to encourage you:

1) what Icto said is absolutely correct - you are doing more for your team than the AS Bogue 90% of the time. See it as a game of chess - try to outwit the other guy to sneak a full strike through, and laugh maniacally when you succeed. Try to outwit him and lure his planes over, say, a Texas or some higher tier ship, and just watch them melt like nothing. Laugh maniacally again. You will never beat him in a straight up fight - you have to be smarter than him.

2) Starting with the Ryujo and even more so on Hiryu and Shokaku, IJN CVs are so hilariously superior to their USN counterparts it's not even funny. So, suffer through the couple more Zuiho games against AS Bogues - and then you will dominate (just dont be an idiot and run AS yourself please... )

[Ictogan]

 

I dont find that very encouraging tbh...

 

games against IJN are fun and balanced, games against USN are frustrating and not fun and unbalanced. simple as that.

 

The difference is huge.

 

what should i do? wait for him to die somehow so i can be of use to my team? do the ninja [planes around map] tactic and hope for the best? (which in fact didnt really work, i only landed two torps and a fire on him before he kills all my planes)

 

what should i do? am i a bad player? i dont consider myself a bad player

(literally next game, and a ranked one too)

 

Please help. i dont wanna whine for no reason. i am either looking for validation on my arguements, or a helpful reply that gives a solution to my problems

 

Doing well against an AS Bogue isn't easy. At higher tiers playing against fighter loadouts is much easier due to actual reserve planes. Mostly you just gotta hope he's an idiot. But the few things that you can try are:

- lure his planes into the AA of one of your ships and engage them there - the stronger the AA of the ships, the better

- try to strafe his planes

- wait for an opportunity to strike when he's not paying attention.

There's also a last option, that being to wait until WG realizes just how bad an idea AS loadouts are, but that's quite unlikely to ever happen because they are actually trying to encourage AS CV gameplay for some reason.

[GenerallKrizmuz]

I might try the AS Bogue to discourage potential IJN cancer vessel drivers from getting nasty stuff like the Hakuryu

[jss78]

I play the air-superiority Bogue, once in a while, to farm the Clear Skies signals.

 

I wouldn't call it OP. Pretty much the best you can hope to achieve is shut down the enemy carrier. The dive bomber squadron rarely achieves much. So that's a one-for-one trade, and only if you're successful. A truly OP ship would be capable of more than this.

 

Typically it does suck for the opfor carrier, but it's far from my best game winner.

 

 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

Get a full AA Cleveland in a DIV.

My friend used Zuiho/Ryujo and I provided my AA Cleveland... he brought enemy fighters over me and the fireworks started. Worked most of times.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

nothing wrong here pal , to face bogue with 2x fighters , zuiho hardly have a chance, unless u strafe him or lure to bb aa

[kfa]

complaining about that a Zuiho is not strong enough is like asking the Zao to be equipped with the old 20km Shima torps again

[lup3s]

 

Doing well against an AS Bogue isn't easy. .... Mostly you just gotta hope he's an idiot.

 

and here I thought any player sailing the AS Bogue is an idiot

[BadGene616]

Sorry but without seeing what you lost your planes to its hard to call. Enemy team has at least one Cleveland, possibly a Texas as well? It's hard to spot from the screen shot.

 

Point being, calling low tier us CV is a bit of an overreaction and yes going up against as bogue is annoying but it's do-able, so long as you don't expect your fighters to be anything but a delaying tactic for you to get through your important mission which is to do a decent strike on the enemy ships.

 

But plenty of other people have had the strength to grind through it... Surprisingly huh? So perhaps they should leave off yet another nerf on us CV just for you...

[MoveZig]

Yeah, it is a bother than IJN doesn't get any AS loadout until t6. Often with the Zuiho you're basically playing cat-and-mouse with a Bogue, trying to slip some bombers past it. I say give Zuiho a AS loadout too. As for the Bogue, at least you have the glee of knowing it's the slowest ship ingame and will get left behind in high-mobility Domination matches.

[ColonelPete]

What is the purpose of an AS loadout for Zuiho?

That you can fight pointless air battles?

[MoveZig]

What is the purpose of an AS loadout for Zuiho?

That you can fight pointless air battles?

 

Not everything in the game has to be about killing ships, you know. Air combat was a thing in that period. Even then, fighters have the hp and speed to be better at scouting than bombers. I don't like this attitude that AS loadouts are ''useless to the team'', they have their purpose against both CVs and other ships.

[ColonelPete]

Bogue is a ship that is often used for AS loadout.

Look at the winrate.

[dasCKD]

 

Not everything in the game has to be about killing ships, you know. Air combat was a thing in that period. Even then, fighters have the hp and speed to be better at scouting than bombers. I don't like this attitude that AS loadouts are ''useless to the team'', they have their purpose against both CVs and other ships.

 

At the higher tiers the HP pools of the planes converge. Furthermore, bombers gain speed once they drop their bombs which makes them far faster scouts than fighters and it also has the intimidation factor for destroyers. I'll use Shokaku as the example here.

 

Yokosuka: 161 knots

Kawanishi: 171 knots

 

Once bombs are dropped

 

Yokusuka 181 knots

Kawanishi 171 knots

 

Now the dive bombers can outrun the fighters and outscout them.

 

The thing is AS loadouts aren't useless though many carriers say they are. Bringing an AS loadout into battle is like bringing a riot shield against a handgun that would, in this example, be the strike loadout. You can't protect your team effectively with your riot shield because the enemy can choose anyone on your team to shoot at. The guy with the handgun also won't be there if you aren't there. In the occasions where you are in an AS CV against a strike CV you aren't useless to your team, you are a detriment.

[Adwaenyth]

complaining about that a Zuiho is not strong enough is like asking the Zao to be equipped with the old 20km Shima torps again

 

Gifv again!!! I loved those.

[dasCKD]

 

Gifv again!!! I loved those.

 

Can't we just give the Zuiho the Zao's torps?

[MoveZig]

 

At the higher tiers the HP pools of the planes converge. Furthermore, bombers gain speed once they drop their bombs which makes them far faster scouts than fighters and it also has the intimidation factor for destroyers. I'll use Shokaku as the example here.

 

Yokosuka: 161 knots

Kawanishi: 171 knots

 

Once bombs are dropped

 

Yokusuka 181 knots

Kawanishi 171 knots

 

Now the dive bombers can outrun the fighters and outscout them.

 

The thing is AS loadouts aren't useless though many carriers say they are. Bringing an AS loadout into battle is like bringing a riot shield against a handgun that would, in this example, be the strike loadout. You can't protect your team effectively with your riot shield because the enemy can choose anyone on your team to shoot at. The guy with the handgun also won't be there if you aren't there. In the occasions where you are in an AS CV against a strike CV you aren't useless to your team, you are a detriment.

 

I'd agree with you, if AS was 100% fighters and thus purely defensive. A good AS player can seriously hamper his strike CV opponent while his own bombers do their work unopposed. So it evens out. The AS CV is also more at liberty to move his planes around the map freely and has the initiative in any air combat. This means a strike CV can't really do all that much against being spotted by fighters. Which means the strike CV can only be safe way behind his teammates, where he can't be sniped after being spotted, and where his bombers will also have very long travel times. Although I realize this applies mainly to smaller, earlier CVs before they all start getting ridiculously huge and unmaneuverable and you need to stay back regardless.

 

Thanks for the bomber tip, didn't know that.

[jss78]

Also, speaking as an occasional AS Bogue captain... If you play against me, be PATIENT.

 

Understand that my own DB's won't achieve that much during the game. The take-home is that you only need one good torpedo strike to achieve more than I likely will, and you will have tipped the battle in your own team's favour.

 

So be prepared for a long cat-and-mouse excercise. Wait for the other guy's mistake, because they do make them. There are some excellent CV captains in the game, but mostly those don't play AS Bogues because for sure it's not a glamorous play style.