If there were subs in the game

[RenamedUser_92906789]

I know its general rule not to even talk about this ... but ... if there was an option ... How would you have them? 

 

 

ON SURFACE:

Use gun, AA like other ship. Slow, low HP pool ... like DD (no citadel).

 

DIVE CONSUMABLE

Recharge of 10-15 seconds, means you go to the surface once every couple of minutes for 10-15 seconds.

 

SUBMERGED:

3 minute countdown?

Can stealth fire, short range torps ... 5km. Slow.

Periscope visible in the sea (very hard to observe in the waves/sun/etc), this could become a good personal skill ... for spotting periscopes.

Can be shot with AP and damaged when submerged, same as shells penetrate citadels mechanics.

Can be spotted by airplanes.

 

COUNTER

DDs receive depth charge bombs consumable.

Same as smoke, except in drops and has explosions. submarine gets damage if in the "cloud". Same damage as DD gets from HE.

 

Graphics would be cool. When on surface it would be sexy shooting that gun and the weak AA . it could also have smoke... if submerged (out of dive consumables) you could prolong your life with smoke.

 

 

[Tyrendian89]

No.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

I know, im just in the mood to think this . But if they were, how would you want them? They could be only part of special mode .. like convoy, where you must protect bot convoy passing with other players against pack of subs. Dont think so narrow

 

[ApesTogetherStronK]

In all honesty. 

With the BB infestation I would love to see some subs right now.

[Lladdir_]

Didn't WG say something about subs becoming a part of the game semi-recently? or did they just silently scrap it? I think i remember it being mentioned in the "some interesting info from RU" thread but can't be bothered checking

[BOldMan]

Yes. I cannot imagine why not.

[Kittykami]

I started off believing that there should absolutely not be subs in the game, but now I'm not so sure. If they were implemented well, then they could be a really interesting gameplay element, especially for DDs. The chances of WG/Lesta pulling off subs without totally breaking the game is exceedingly slim though, I think. 

[Ubertron_X]

I already thought we had subs ingame, they are called DDs.

 

(at least until WG decided to skip stealthy DDs in favor of gunboat non-DDs)

[Redcap375]

If they are really struggling with surface ship at the moment GOD KNOWS what they would do with subs !! Probably give them trident missiles.

 

BUT, i personally would love to see them in the game and i think it could work.

 

• Long reload time 
• 3-4 torps a time but POWERFUL and longer range?
• 1 or 2 2 inch guns or something like that. Crap at defending its self, the worst.
• Limited battery power (underwater, needs to come up for air when it is very fragile)
• Sonar no DDs and CL/CA 

 

Think of the team work required to defend against sub and how team work is happening right now...Got no chance 

 

IMHO

[MaxxyNL]

No.

 

What he said. 

[Redcap375]

I know its general rule not to even talk about this ... but ... if there was an option ... How would you have them? 

 

 

ON SURFACE:

Use gun, AA like other ship. Slow, low HP pool ... like DD (no citadel).

 

DIVE CONSUMABLE

Recharge of 10-15 seconds, means you go to the surface once every couple of minutes for 10-15 seconds.

 

SUBMERGED:

3 minute countdown?

Can stealth fire, short range torps ... 5km. Slow.

Periscope visible in the sea (very hard to observe in the waves/sun/etc), this could become a good personal skill ... for spotting periscopes.

Can be shot with AP and damaged when submerged, same as shells penetrate citadels mechanics.

Can be spotted by airplanes.

 

COUNTER

DDs receive depth charge bombs consumable.

Same as smoke, except in drops and has explosions. submarine gets damage if in the "cloud". Same damage as DD gets from HE.

 

Graphics would be cool. When on surface it would be sexy shooting that gun and the weak AA . it could also have smoke... if submerged (out of dive consumables) you could prolong your life with smoke.

 

 

 

And why not, some good ideas m8  like it.

[Redcap375]

 

What he said. 

 

Really? Why? what you got against the submariners  

 

Well it is World of Warships and not World of Warboats.  They would have to change the name as my m8 in the navy says "its not a ship! Its a boat" 

[Kevbar]

Speaking as a mother retired submariner, for all the years I spent on them and as much as I love submarines the only ones I would want to see in this game would be tied up in harbours purely as eye-candy.

 

However, I would have no problem wih an AI sub exterior to the battle boundary unleashing a salvo on:-

1. a persistent border hugger
2. someone who is AFK for more than 5 minutes
3. anyone who is Welsh (my 1st wife was one of these )

 

 

 

[Rexdaman]

NO 

 

[Kameho]

Look into Navyfield.

SS can be added into game without issue. If you were to add FF class into game aswell, and give DD a change into SS hunting roles.

How SS can be added into games:

Most people here in the forums who, like the first poster just writes No and claims SS can never be implement into game ("Breaks the balance")
Well lets start off by saying, that is utter pile of seagull eggs.

Lets start off with some actual consideration about ww2 SS.

I'll just quote article about ww 2 SS:

World War II submarines were basically surface ships that could travel underwater for a limited time. Diesel engines gave them high surface speed and long range, but speed and range were severely reduced underwater, where they relied on electric motors powered by relatively short-lived storage batteries. Recharging the storage batteries meant surfacing to run the air-breathing diesels. Even combat patrols routinely involved 90 percent (or more) surface operations.

 

So where does this apply to gamebalance rules?

1. Speed

2. Limitations.

3. Fragility

 

Speed, you think BB's are slow? Well, a BB is a sportscar compared to a Submerged SS. Meaning, if you spot a SS or see a SS on the map heading same direction your going, you can safely assume he is hunting you and you should change course. This limites how long they can dive and when they can dive. the real threat from a SS player would come from how good his intuition is and planning ahead. And this is where FF and DD a

 

Limitation. SS are practically harmless in the surface, with some SS having maybe 1 Gun. Might be deadly to a unfortunate plane. but even a DD can feel like a BB in a gunfight against a SS. SS are simply not ment for surface fighting.
Its slow submerged speed also limites the distance travelled under water can be, so a SS has to rely on sailing on the surface close enough to dive and head towards a BB's course, if a BB sees this, he can change course wich will drastically change the situation for the SS and he might have to cancel the attack or find another target fast.

Fragility. SS has no armor. They werent ment to take hits, only to withstand pressiure. 1 good HE volley could blow it up fast. Imagine the pain a DD has to suffer from being hit, only tenfolded for a SS.

SS play is pretty much High risk High reward style of play. if you arent willing to risk it, and playing it safe, you might not earn anything at all as a SS.
 

 

the addition of FF (Frigates) will help the game to have SS hunters, FF will fill a more supporting role and be better to outmanuver torps and find submerged SS. with limited firepower from guns, their main damage comes from debt charges and Mine laying.
And FF against DD's would mostly be somewhat of a fight comparable to a DD vs CA.

FF comes into play as emphazis on support, being able to give good AA cover, and mainly be a offense against SS and defense against CV.
Mine laying could be implemented into game, wich would be devestating to run into as a SS, while bigger the ship, the less penalty it has to take damage from mines. Meaning BB's could technically travell through a minefield, wich some caution, or mine removal ahead of them.

 

Topic about mines is a whole other discussion by itself.

 

 

The real reason why SS isnt in Warships is what the dev said:
Matter of Game enginge, and how to make SS physically playable. Should it move in a 3d enviroment under water, much like a plane moves in the air? etc etc.
Its more a mechanical issue than Balance issue.
 

[MaxxyNL]

 

Really? Why? what you got against the submariners  

 

Well it is World of Warships and not World of Warboats.  They would have to change the name as my m8 in the navy says "its not a ship! Its a boat" 

 

I have nothing against Submariners, i just don't like to have subs in World of Warships. 

[bushwacker001]

The main reason WG will not have them in game is the abbreviation for subs is SS...... Every time a topic mentioned them it would be deleted and a warning/ban handed out. 

 

[Nechrom]

I kind of liked how they were implemented in Steel Ocean. Too bad the rest of the game was pretty meh.

 

So if they ever got implemented in WoWs I could see them working really well with the same mechanics.

• On surface: Slow DD-like with very limited guns and AA. Mostly for traveling long distances.
• Submerged (shallow): Even slower, very hard to detect but retains ability to see enemy ships. Can only be hit by torpedoes and depth charges.
• Submerged (deep): Slowest, almost stationary. Only detectable by sonar equipped ships within a certain range. Can't be hit by surface or shallow launched torpedoes, only by deep launched torpedoes and depth charges.

 

You could dive or surface on command without cooldown, but diving from the surface has a preparation timer before the dive happens. Every depth change would also take a few seconds to complete.

 

I enjoyed how the different subs in SO felt really different. You had small nimble ones, big unwieldy but fast ones, ones with just a few front tubes, ones with several tubes both front and back and some even had center line mounted ones that swiveled like DD launchers. Most deck guns were pretty weak but there were a few with pretty hefty guns able to at least finish off ships or provide support fire as a part of the fleet while out of torpedo range. But most of the time the deck guns were just used against other subs as you'd often surface to try and run away from a slower opponent, especially if you had an aft tube or two.

[anonym_XGuN6pHmfiJ9]

Submaribes playing Wows at 5 to 15 knots under water. Would that really be fun?

[Webley_Mark]

Submaribes playing Wows at 5 to 15 knots under water. Would that really be fun?

 

So funny, I'm already laughing.

[Fino_93]

I played submarines in navifield, i think that even with our interface they could work or be a base to modify to better join our gameplay.

So, sub stats:
-not historical speed, but they must to be the slowest ships in game (i suppose circa  15knot in the lower tier and 20knt in the upper, when almost every battleship can reach 30 or more knot)
-lowest hp pool of the class, and armour of course, no citadel.

-oxigen level, expressed through a timer, it represent the time the sub can stay submerged. It could be from 1.30 second to 3 minutes, maybe there could be upgrades or captain skills that increment the capacity, if the oxigen level reach the 0 the sub isn't emerged it starts loosing HPs until it emerge or it is destroyed.
-concealment of the ijn DDs 
-Torpedo tubes are single and they point on the front (idk if it's historical that some subs have some launchers on the back) they have a little angle of aiming thanks to the gyroscopes.

Consumable: hydro, eventually planes.
Other consumable modification: DDs get hydro and depth charge, german BBs lose hydro.

How immersion work; the subs ave some level of immersion, they can change level in every moment, changing level is an action that requies 2/3 second and you get the "malus" of every level in wich you are and none of the bonus (better explaination later); the levels are:
-0: emerged: they are like every other ships, the can use their gun, if they had planes they could launch them, use AA and launch torps. If the oxigen isn't full it earn 3 second-units per second, there could be some captain skills or upgrade to make the earning better.
-1:little submerged: the concealment became even better and they became immune to radar, but they keep being spotted by hydro, they can't use gun/AA or launch plane but they can drop torps, they are vulnerable to artilley (you have to aim on the waterline) or torpedo, you become vulnerable to depth charge, you start loosing oxigen.
-2: totally submerged: you became invulnerable to everything but depth charge, however you can't launch torpedoes (too low? it is historical?) and you keep being spotted by hydro and loosing oxigen
-3 or more: they are not necessary, they should be a copy od level 2, the only difference is in how the depth charge works.

So, you start the game at level 0, you can reach level 1 and in the 2/3 seconds that you need to complete the action you start losing oxigen and can't use gun/AA but you keep being spotted at max concealment, then you can reach level 0 again or level 2.
When a submarine is spotted by a hydro an UI indicator appears on the surface, like the UI marks on the surfaces that appear under the planes with the carrier interface.

Depth charge: consumable, when the DDs active it, it drop 5 depth charge in sequence with 3 seconds between every drop; they fall for 1.5 seconds the explode, doing damage to all emerged ships in the area. In navyfield you also have to choose the depth of explosion, that's why subs could submerge themself for more levels, however i think we can drop this part...


however, i would like them but i don't think we can handle subs in this game, like evereithing that is too strategical, like carriers and torpedo boat that are disappeared from the game but some of them (fubuki, some carriers); i thing that the devs are making the game mor "tactical only" where you sails random until enemy appears, every element that require you to "not being in a determinated place without a determinated ship that support you" is not seen really well...
 

Submaribes playing Wows at 5 to 15 knots under water. Would that really be fun?

 

Battleships playing wows at 3-5% hitrate. Would that really be fun?

Carriers playing wows where AAs shoots down less than 5% of the planes. Would that really be fun?

Destroyers playing wows with onli 1 torpedo salvo, 2 for some jap DDs. Would that really be fun?

And, so on...


 

[SDGsteve]

If there were subs it would just be another topic for people to moan about like they do aobut BBs & DDs

 

[Lin3]

HMS Hood will be the only submarine in this game.

 

I never realised how low it sat in the water till I saw a documentary on it at the week-end. Apparently it was the result of adding 5,000 tons of armour half way through the build process that caused this.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

remember guys, this topic is NOT about whether subs should be in the game or not, BUT about if they were in the game, how would you like them implemented.

[Webley_Mark]

HMS Hood will be the only submarine in this game.

 

I never realised how low it sat in the water till I saw a documentary on it at the week-end. Apparently it was the result of adding 5,000 tons of armour half way through the build process that caused this.

 

I saw what you did there.

 

The Biggest Submarine in the Fleet, coming soon.