Warspite or Bayern secondary build for Ranked

[Nargoth73]

Hello dear forumites

 

After a few games in my Arizona (which is a solid ship for Ranked) I was thinking what a secondary specced captain would be like in Ranked, since the maps seem to be rather small and the teams are often brawling.

 

Arizona has a lousy 4.2 km range on its secondaries, so I am not going to use that ship (captain has AFT so range is now 5 km). When I was playing Bayern I had a secondary range of 7.6 km (with flag and specced captain). However, my German 15-point captain is currently residing aboard the Gneisenau and even though I love WG I balk at paying 500 doubloons for a transfer fee.

 

Another option I have is the Warspite. Base range is also 5 km, so it should be possible to max this out to 7.6 as well. However, I will then lose out on the turret traverse speedup module I have now installed, so main guns turret rotation time will because glacial again. I have a 10-point captain for Warspite, so I could unlock the AFT.

 

Other viable options are Fuso (would need to spend free XP to get past that dreadful Kongo), Nex Mexico (would need to rebuy and also has base range of 4 km so no) and even Dunkerque, but I am not sure she and I are compatible, playstyle wise, plus all her seconaries are at the rear.

 

Basically, the only two reasonable viable ships for secondary build seem to be Warspite and Bayern. I liked the Bayern's trolly armour, but Warspite is quite decent as well.

 

I just looked at my stats of these warships and it seems I do best in New Mexico, but in Bayern and Arizona I have the highest hit rate and damage dealt.

 

Damn, WG, why do you have to give my choices

 

Could you share some of your experiences with Warspite secondary build or how Bayern is doing for you in Ranked?

[Gojuadorai]

none  of them.

 

play the FUSO

(if you cant play either warspite or bayern but no shitty secondaries build)

[Kruzenstern]

For the handful of ranked matches you will play on tier6, I wouldn't bother with a special build. Regrettably, the vast majority of ranked battles will be tier8 BB&DD hell. Which is a shame, I really enjoy those 7on7 tier6 matches...

[creamgravy]

I didn't even get to play tier 6 ranked this season. 

 

Warspite needs the Manual Fire Control for the secondary build. Gaining 15% accuracy is absolutely vital for being able to sit slightly angled/bow on to drive back DDs, wreck cruisers and burn BBs. It's almost a tier 6 Bismarck.

Otherwise secondaries are just a gimmick at this level.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Is the 15% extra Manual Accuracy really worth it on the Warspite? I've gone for CE as it lowers it to about 13km....

[Gojuadorai]

For the handful of ranked matches you will play on tier6,...

 

for some for others not, if you catch my drift

 

Is the 15% extra Manual Accuracy really worth it on the Warspite? I've gone for CE as it lowers it to about 13km....

 

no its not the seconaries are a nice bonus but never the main argument ....

if you want  to tryhard play the 100% best setup the  main bat mod 1 will always beat the secondaries and below tier 7 the manual fire cap skill is also beaten by better skills

[fnord_disc]

Secondary builds are only useful starting at Tier 7 imo where you get to the good part of the T5 skill.

[Mucker]

IMO, a secondary build IS the default build for a Warspite. Within it's tier range it works very well for scaring off DDs and finish low hp enemies. In fact it works so well that you can skip on manual AA and invest those 5 points somewhere else.

With Bayern I'd focus on AA. Main reason is the mixed shells that the secondaries use (105 mm HE, 150 mm AP). 

 

 

[Nargoth73]

I have yet to encounter a CV in Ranked (granted, 5 games played). I'm guessing CVs won't be much of an issue until Ranked Tier 8?

[Webley_Mark]

I have done my ranked game to the rank 15 with a Warspite secondary build.... And it was fine.

[Close_Quarters_Expert]

I seem to have had an opposite experience to some of you.

 

I'm by no means a 'good' player. However, i've been running a Secondary Warspite (7.6km) exclusively in this season; and I've carried a good few battles too. But why secondary build? For me, it's a no-brainer. Warspite has amazing secondaries. I had a match today in which I sunk a Dunkerque....I wasn't aiming at him but an enemy cruiser, but my secondaries started so many fires he went from 14k to 0 within a matter of minutes. I then got a cheeky DD kill with AP because he assumed I'd been pointing my turrets at the Dunkerque...so tactically speaking, my secondaries not only got me the first kill but also helped me secure a second!

 

This isn't an isolated example, either and I'd go so far as argue that it isn't situational at all, but in fact vital for every battle if you want to win brawls. If you're a good brawler, Warspite secondary build will be an absolute firestarter and very, very very worth it. Turret traverse speed is trivial if you know how to use the ship well; I'm using stock speed!  

 

I can imagine it's a very similar story with Bayern, though my money is on Warspite's accuracy anyday.

 

As an addendum; I was starting to find Warspite a little annoying in random battles; mostly because I felt she lacked the 'edge' she used to have. Since 5.12, my WR with her has gone up; mostly due to the increased amount of brawling I can get away with which gives her a purpose once again.

 

She's a ranked battle BEAST! Just a pity I've got to start taking Tier 8's out soon instead...

[Gojuadorai]

 But why secondary build? For me, it's a no-brainer. Warspite has amazing secondaries.

 

if you mean a person picking it just because warspites stock secondaries are good, has no brain youre right.

 

picking something without puting thought into it is dumb. 

i kinda give you a quick reasoning.

what you loose if you choose main guns mod over secondaries mod? yes only 15% range and acc! 

what you gain? better main guns! whats the strongest part of the warspite? yes soure right the main guns!!!

 

what you loose not picking 5th row skill? 15% secondaries acc.

what do you gain? 5 points into really strong skills you do not have yet ...

 

all those sacrifices  for a gain you can utilize every now and then and in most cases the stock secs would have done a similar job....

 

[edit] ofc you can play through ranks T6 with a secondaries warspite its just not the optimal build...

[Close_Quarters_Expert]

I appreciate your points and agree a BB is all about the main guns. However, I can tell you now I put plenty of thought into this; she cost me 20 quid afterall. My secondaries do, on average, 15-20k damage a battle from fires alone. When i used to run Turret speed mod on Warspite, I really didn't notice any difference. I still played the same, i still anticipated where my turrets would point 5 minutes beforehand and I still got reliable damage in her. For me, the secondaries are the cherry on top; and they really do help in a lot of situations. Even if it's just the fact a DD comes close and my secondaries open up at near enough 8km, scaring it away (this DOES happen...all the time. I'm basically a sitting duck but they choose another target after seeing their range and accuracy; don't forget that upgrade also gives me 20% accuracy and it does help a lot). The 5th skill is definitely helpful, but not vital imo; esp at t6, as you point out

 

I also run secondary build B-hull Colorado (with 5th skill). Yes, yes I know that one probably *is* me being dumb. But A), I LOVE Colorado so I can put up with B hull if it means 2 extra guns, and B), I actually find they help, even if just in closing the range gap with the Germans....for me, the other upgrades simply don't offer me an edge. AA only helps if your AA is above average to begin with, and range on US BBs just gives you an RNG nightmare from the dispersion it creates. Even my Mexico and NC run AA instead of plotting room due to this.

 

But maybe I am wrong about this. Completely. I'm just throwing my two cents in there.  I love the old broadside style of warfare so perhaps it's that part of me which loves seeing secondaries fire so much!

[Gojuadorai]

I appreciate your points and agree a BB is all about the main guns. However, I can tell you now I put plenty of thought into this; she cost me 20 quid afterall. My secondaries do, on average, 15-20k damage a battle from fires alone. When i used to run Turret speed mod on Warspite, turret turn mod is *** on the warspite. beacuse the drawback is huge. I really didn't notice any difference. I still played the same, i still anticipated where my turrets would point 5 minutes beforehand and I still got reliable damage in her. For me, the secondaries are the cherry on top excactly they are not what makes the ship great they are just a bonus; and they really do help in a lot of situations. Even if it's just the fact a DD comes close and my secondaries open up at near enough 8km, scaring it away (this DOES happen...all the time. I'm basically a sitting duck sitting duck for dds in a warspite??? youre doing something wrong but they choose another target after seeing their range and accuracy; don't forget that upgrade also gives me 20% accuracy and it does help a lot). The 5th skill is definitely helpful, but not vital imo; esp at t6, as you point out

But maybe I am wrong about this. Completely. I'm just throwing my two cents in there.  I love the old broadside style of warfare you realy shouldnt broadside! so perhaps it's that part of me which loves seeing secondaries fire so much! well they are pretty

 

i sense the mistake you make in judging the benefit of a secondaries build is vastly overestimating the effect of 15% more range/acc on the secondaries (yes not 20% becuase the gun mod gives you 5%)

if you have fun with the build keep it its viable but do not be fooled into thinking its the BEST build.

when it comes to ranked people want to squeeze very bit of performance out of their ships and its simply not that.

[Covenant_R]

Warspite is a tough one though, because having CE on it, is not that bad either, with the guns being as accurate as it is, 13,8 -> 11,7 is not insignificant.

But manual secondaries gives you that extra 15% boost above what the secondary module slot gives so...

[Close_Quarters_Expert]

Fair enough, I'll keep it for myself then! But to address your pink points quickly:

 

1) Agreed

2) Agreed; albeit a good one, hence posting in this thread

3) I mean in a situation where I literally have 3 of them hunting me and there's no way to turn if all 3 were to launch at me. In that situation, yes, I'm a sitting duck despite the turning circle etc

4) I don't mean angle wise; sorry for the confusion here. I mean the whole thing of having a tonne of guns down the sides, firing forwards or backwards, as opposed to the usual meta, where of course the majority of fighting is going on from the bow or stern with the main batts. Of course I don't present my full broadside and ask for a trashing unless I am absolutly sick of the battle; I've been in a Pensacola afterall 

5) Agreed!

 

Ah well you do make good points. From a competitive perspective, this probably isn't for everyone. Again, though; just giving my opinion on the matter

 

Edit: Speellling

 

[Hedgehog1963]

I've had a lot of success with Warspite by just turning the ship to bring the guns to bear.  There are risks of course, such as exposing a broadside, but she turns fast for a ship her size.

[Close_Quarters_Expert]

If I get into a dual with another BB, I do the tried and tested method of timing the use of my aft guns to the enemy ship's reload. I fire my forward batts from the sheer angle, let them fire second then immediately feint to give them the afts, then turn back and take their next round on the bow. Works wonderfully in most low to mid tier BBs (and even some cruisers; Atlanta comes to mind), but especially Warspite, as you say  I actually find it odd that most people I encounter don't do this straightforward tactic...it's one of the reasons Ishizuchi is such a good ship imo.

 

Edit: Speeeelling again. Oh dear.

[thestaggy]

I used my Bayern due to the faster turret traverse and evidently the AA is pretty powerful if you end up getting focused. 

 

I had the pleasure of engaging Cpt_Cowper_Coles in his Warspite and was sunk by him, but we never got in to a straight secondary brawl as I was trying to carry my team and by the time I got within secondary range I was down to 20k HP. I did manage to drive his supporting New Mexico off before we danced around an island, exchanged two salvos apiece and I was sunk.

 

 

 

As for the Fuso; I found all 9 of my games were sub-15 km and in every one I was able to force engagements well under 10 km. In these situations I found that Fuso's simply could not live with 15 inch guns being that close.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

If I get into a dual with another BB, I do the tried and tested method of timing the use of my aft guns to the enemy ship's reload. I fire my forward batts from the sheer angle, let them fire second then immediately feint to give them the afts, then turn back and take their next round on the bow. Works wonderfully in most low to mid tier BBs (and even some cruisers; Atlanta comes to mind), but especially Warspite, as you say  I actually find it odd that most people I encounter don't do this straightforward tactic...it's one of the reasons Ishizuchi is such a good ship imo.

 

Edit: Speeeelling again. Oh dear.

 

There's something to be said for stagger firing a BB's guns. I don't do it enough but it's an easy counter to those who angle to get their own guns off then angle back. 

[Close_Quarters_Expert]

I used my Bayern due to the faster turret traverse and evidently the AA is pretty powerful if you end up getting focused. 

 

I had the pleasure of engaging Cpt_Cowper_Coles in his Warspite and was sunk by him, but we never got in to a straight secondary brawl as I was trying to carry my team and by the time I got within secondary range I was down to 20k HP. I did manage to drive his supporting New Mexico off before we danced around an island, exchanged two salvos apiece and I was sunk.

 

 

 

As for the Fuso; I found all 9 of my games were sub-15 km and in every one I was able to force engagements well under 10 km. In these situations I found that Fuso's simply could not live with 15 inch guns being that close.

 

I remember this match! You died fighting hard, bro  I think you also did the majority of your team's damage to my team tbh....it's important to note that I did have some help from the Fuso with those kills, but yeah; they definitely seem to have a harder time than the two thoroughbred brawlers so far. It's for this reason I'm getting such good results from the secondary build; though it's a pity that island was in the way in this particular example as I'd have had an alibi!

 

Covenant, I tend to lean towards CE; purely because it gives you more flexibility tactically which can make or break a match; but that 15% isn't to be sniffed at either and it is a tough call.

 

Hope we meet again in-game, thestaggy!

 

 

[Spuggy]

I'm surprised no one has posted this yet.....

 

[thestaggy]

 

I remember this match! You died fighting hard, bro  I think you also did the majority of your team's damage to my team tbh....it's important to note that I did have some help from the Fuso with those kills, but yeah; they definitely seem to have a harder time than the two thoroughbred brawlers so far. It's for this reason I'm getting such good results from the secondary build; though it's a pity that island was in the way in this particular example as I'd have had an alibi!

 

Covenant, I tend to lean towards CE; purely because it gives you more flexibility tactically which can make or break a match; but that 15% isn't to be sniffed at either and it is a tough call.

 

Hope we meet again in-game, thestaggy!

 

 

 

 

 

I picked up a Confederate and High Caliber, but it wasn't enough. It was really only the Independence that worked with me, the others were a little shy. 

 

The Fuso did his part as well, that is true. He pushed around our port flank and subjected us to cross-fire. However, he did take the longest route around an island, temporarily taking his guns out of the game, when I showed him a bit of attention.

 

I wanted to try my Warspite as well, but I figured that I was ''in the zone'' with the Bayern and changing ship may have thrown me off.

I recall your parting words being ''Rule Brittania'', which rubbed it in, so a rematch is in order. 

[Close_Quarters_Expert]

Definitly! I'll add you in game and we'll try and sort something out

 

And I believe it actually was 'Britannia rules the waves', which kinda rubs it in more, I guess 

[IntelligenceData]

Hello dear forumites

 

After a few games in my Arizona (which is a solid ship for Ranked) I was thinking what a secondary specced captain would be like in Ranked, since the maps seem to be rather small and the teams are often brawling.

 

Arizona has a lousy 4.2 km range on its secondaries, so I am not going to use that ship (captain has AFT so range is now 5 km). When I was playing Bayern I had a secondary range of 7.6 km (with flag and specced captain). However, my German 15-point captain is currently residing aboard the Gneisenau and even though I love WG I balk at paying 500 doubloons for a transfer fee.

 

Another option I have is the Warspite. Base range is also 5 km, so it should be possible to max this out to 7.6 as well. However, I will then lose out on the turret traverse speedup module I have now installed, so main guns turret rotation time will because glacial again. I have a 10-point captain for Warspite, so I could unlock the AFT.

 

Other viable options are Fuso (would need to spend free XP to get past that dreadful Kongo), Nex Mexico (would need to rebuy and also has base range of 4 km so no) and even Dunkerque, but I am not sure she and I are compatible, playstyle wise, plus all her seconaries are at the rear.

 

Basically, the only two reasonable viable ships for secondary build seem to be Warspite and Bayern. I liked the Bayern's trolly armour, but Warspite is quite decent as well.

 

I just looked at my stats of these warships and it seems I do best in New Mexico, but in Bayern and Arizona I have the highest hit rate and damage dealt.

 

Damn, WG, why do you have to give my choices

 

Could you share some of your experiences with Warspite secondary build or how Bayern is doing for you in Ranked?

 

Full secondary build  (with the 5 point skill) is only worth it tier 7 and above. The bonus a tier 6 BB gets from manual fire control for secondary arnament is just not worth 5 captain skill points.

 

Edit:

Only had to play a few games in the tier 6 bracket.I used the Bayern and just rekt everything.

Bayern is like a Warspite with slightly worse guns and mobility,but way better AA,armor and top speed.