Radar that sees thru massive islands?

[KingKnut]

Just like line of sight, radars cannot see thru islands. This aspect of the game pretty much ruins it for me, since I play mostly DDs. I just played in the Fubuki and opponents can just press the magic button aka radar aka "reveal all" seeing exact location of my ship (moving behind a huge island) and convey this to a another player that gets a lucky hit from 15k+ away. This unrealistic aspect of the game should be fixed! WG hope you read this and do something.

 

I am not as salty about this aspect as it might seem. I still think its a great game! -edit

[IceyJones]

and the next one!

just stay away from radar ranges of ships

simple and effective

[KingKnut]

Rather than fix it just stay away, thats not a great sollution for me. Especially since my gun/torp range is 10k and radar spotts me even when I am hiding behind mount Fuji from 9k+.  

[MaxxyNL]

Just avoid ships with radar. 

 

[KingKnut]

I`ll just stay away from everything then and never gett anything done. thanx WG!

Here is a scenario.. Ship with radar stays undetected behind island, no way I can see him. Suddenly mountain penetrating radar sees me, I have had 0 warning or chance to avoid, Now I am lighted up to every enemy ship and killed in seconds. Great! 

 

 

[Tungstonid]

Well, WoWS is not a simulator hence don't expect it to be realistic in every aspect.

I think there are bigger issues than the rare occasions were a cruiser spots you through islands with his radar.

[Zathras_Grimm]

It is difficult to not be straight forward with the type of reply you are likely to get but in the end (between the lines) read the fact that you need to know the ships that will cause your class issues and then adjust your play accordingly.

 

I am an IJN DD player, so I try to make sure I stay out of range from my 2 worst nightmares: EVERY other nation DD and aircraft; otherwise I get lit up, and if the enemy team is playing well, go get myself another cup of coffee (game over! lol).

 

Now I could say great that is impossible to do and honestly half the matches it can be, but know your own strengths. It sounds as if you believed you were safe behind the island and maybe got 'comfortable', problem is there is no safe (in a war game, of course not).

 

We all make mistakes that make us go D'OH! Thing to do is understand where it went wrong.  

[KingKnut]

Rare occasion? Happens about 1/3 of my games. But I guess that`s not enough?? I actually thought the aim of this game was realism. my fault! Guess I`ll Start looking for another realistic game then!

[Zathras_Grimm]

But why 1/3? Why is it you that gets pinged and then (more to the point) why is it you that gets targeted? Are you away from support, have your own DDs/aircraft not spotted, are you using the mini map, are you communicating?

 

If I die early in a game I can guarantee it is because I dropped the ball and went outside my support range then got spotted; if I push out and then get caught I'm pretty much giving the enemy one target to concentrate on. What should I expect?

 

If my game is not a good one I can guarantee that 80% of the time it is my own fault.  

 

 

EDIT: Actually that's not completely true; a % is down to the fact that the enemy team is just better than me lol.

[Tungstonid]

If it happens 1/3 of your games then either

A) it is just selective perception by you or

B) you are doing it wrong.

 

"It" in this case means you get spotted by radar cruisers behind islands, not in general on the open sea.

Maybe you get spotted or you give away your possible position when there is a radar cruiser close by so they have a reason to use radar? I normally save my radar until I am very sure I will spot something with it.

 

And please don't turn around my words. I didn't say that this game does not try to create a certain realisitic atmosphere. What I wrote was that it is not a simulation and therefore not everything is 100% realisitic (like in "that's how it works in real life"). Being able to spot ships through islands by using radar and sonar/HAS is one of the small thing that is included in that. It is a game mechanic implemented by the developers either because there is no other solution (yet) or because of balance reasons. Who knows.

 

 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

Havent this already been talked about?

 

Its paper rock scissors. BBs complain about smoke, torps and invisifire, CLs complain about geting deleted by BBs and now DDs complain about rrrradar.

Im a DD player and I think radar is great. It makes adrenaline pump and its only 20seconds. And yea ... dont [edited]camp behind an island.

 

I try to force Cruisers to use their radar prematurely. They go after me, thinking all confident and not paying attention to that 20 seconds. When it goes black its my turn ;)

[KingKnut]

Zathras_Grimm​ Why do I gett targeted? Because I am in a DD. Do I leave support? NO! still gett targeted first because I am easy kill.

Tungstonid. Reason to use radar? I wonder what that could be. Torps in the water?! In a Fubuki its pretty much all I can do. But I`ll just stop using my armament so that no one has any reason to use this most unrealistic aspect of the game aka radar that sees thru rock! 

 

[IceyJones]

dropping smoke in preperation for an ambush is nice to trigger radar ships.....just drop it, drive away...they WILL use it!

 

and when all turned to the direction of smoke, torp them from the side :-)

[Procrastes]

I actually thought the aim of this game was realism.

 

Sorry, no. This is an arcade game in a historical naval battles setting, not a ship simulator. This means, among other things, that balance between different ships and ship types will nearly always be given precedence before realism.

 

And this is as it should be; otherwise it would be pretty meaningless and boring to play those ships or ship classes that are clearly inferior in a direct confrontation battle. Battleships would sink any cruisers and destroyers that didn't immediately run away, and then get sunk in turn by planes from an out-of-gun range carrier.

[Vrumugun]

Sonar see through islands as well. And no DD should be easy kill just because of radar.

Yes, if you are standing/camping still behind island or in smoke, than you are easy target - exactly reason they made radar/sonar.

And getting spotted by big squad of enemy ships at 5-8 km is deadly - even to BB

[Zathras_Grimm]

Well as stated I am a DD, and yes I will get targetted (I like to think its the danger I pose as opposed to the easy kill bit ). 

 

Could it be that you have slowed down to sneaky torp a target? As a static target is an easy one (says I who can miss a barn door lol). Could spotter planes be a problem too, you can't always see them in their rotation pattern?

 

Not trying to increase your frustration but if it is ONE thing that keeps going wrong and there is nothing you can do to prevent it (all down to the game), then don't do it. Maybe it is just a play style you are not good at. I seem to suck at BBs and Cruisers so I play DD; otherwise I find I do not contribute.

 

Please don't automatically dismiss all suggestions out of frustration, see if you can spot areas for improvement. For example, I am unaware of any artillery that shoots through mountains, so on the mini map you should have clocked you were being flanked; time to move (whether it spoils your dream of enemy kills or not).

[Quetak]

when game starts and your are DD first thing you should do is check ho many(and which) radar ships enemy has.

And then in game try to avoid them or ask your fleet for focus fire on that damn New Orleans.

[G3Virus]

You know its not Mountain penetrating Radar, its Ground penetrating radar, the German invented that during WWII including the UFO and the Allies stole it so it makes perfect sense for WG to implement it....

 

Okay enough with the jokes.

But yea I agree its a shitty implementation.

 

My personal problem with it is not that it can see trough islands but the fact that it reduces the tactical options available to players.

As it stands now you basically have two options, stay away from is radar range, thats a big area to, or risk getting detected with in it no mater where you are and get nuked as a result.

 

Now IF radar actually where more relativistic and could not penetrant land masses then the tactical options would increase ten fold and so would the fun of outsmarting the enemy.

One could jump between islands to get close and undetected, the user of the radar also needs to be aware of blind spots and take measures accordingly.

Now radar is not totally without skill but actually requires some.

When I got my first radar ship I put radar and sonar on at the first cap available, LOL I laughed my [edited]of popping both, ducking tops and seeing my team nuked DD's out of the water in the time it tock me to reload my New Orleans guns.

And no it was not LOL like this is fun but rather how OP and pathetic it all was in the end, no skill no nothing just game breaking as is, its like superman using X-rays...

 

I actually suggested increasing the active radar time to make it a bit easier for Cruisers but since WG reduced cool down time with 50% I think its more then fair to demand that raidar cant see trough land now.

 

Now the actual reason raidar works as it dose on WG knows but from a technical standpoint its MUCH easier to program something that detects ships within X number of km rather then "X number of Km and within Line of site", the later requires more code and more computation aka higher server load.

So from a economical point of view the current radar is a cheap low budget solution just like the cyclone or totally random detonation feature.

Its just the easiest and most cost effective implementation and not the one giving the most tactical options to the player base.

More tactical options means more fun at least to me and most people I know playing the game.

 

But its evident that WG dont want this game to be about tactics, team work or anything advertised but rather have people go solo yolo and feel good about them self when RNG wins the battle for them and they get a easy to get Achievement so they can feel special.

 

Its sad to see people "wanting" this, there's a board game called monopoly for those that want RNG Jesus to play for them.

[G3Virus]

when game starts and your are DD first thing you should do is check ho many(and which) radar ships enemy has.

And then in game try to avoid them or ask your fleet for focus fire on that damn New Orleans.

 

That is pretty obvious is it not? And thats precisely HOW people play now.

Is it fun tough? No not realy.

 

IF the dam radar could not see trough mountains then cruisers actually had to take that in to account and if there stupid incompetent anyone could surprise them behind the next island.

 

Its all about tactical diversity and skill and enjoyment of the game that people dont like the "ground penetrating radar" because it removes a bucket load of viable tactics.

[_Flyto_]

While complaints about realism tend to make me laugh (if that were the most unrealistic thing in the game...), I do think there are some rather bizarre mixed messages to IJN DD captains at the moment.

 

1. "We don't like the long range torp ninja role. We want you to move closer to engage. We're giving you shorter torp ranges, and possibly taking away that entire style of play in the next patch"

2. Radar (and high-tier German sonar). If you move closer to engage (and if there is a competent enemy team with a radar-capable ship) you die.

(yes, this is true to an extent of all other DD lines, but none of the others are quite as slow as the IJN ones or - except perhaps the Russians - have the Battleship-sized turning circles)

[anonym_PYC0RAuRIwe4]

Just avoid ships with radar. 

 

How can you avoid something that's hidden behind a mountain? Radar needs a significant nerf/mechanic change. It's an easy "I win" button against DDs, especially IJN DDs that lack speed and maneuverability.

[_Flyto_]

 

How can you avoid something that's hidden behind a mountain?

 

Use radar?

[Zathras_Grimm]

If radar didn't penetrate Mountain then wouldn't an available ship use spotter plane instead? Either way you are spotted.

My point is not only is he spotted but he also gets hit. Therefore he has pushed forward (mountain or not) and got flanked. It can happen, it's part of the game.

 

If a BB/CA/CL was complaining that they kept getting hit by torps every time they hid behind a mountain and emerged from it, we would be telling them don't keep going behind the mountain (or don't go so close, give yourself space).

You can consider it fair or not but if you are aware of why it is happening (radar/being flanked), then change gameplay to stop it. 

[Quetak]

G3Virus: I see your point. But DDs needs some counter when there is no CV in game. Radars are not for long and you have just few charges (2-3).

Cruisers life is hard now so dont make it even harder.

Im playing DDs also and I was killed because radar/hydro many times so I know how it feels, but I never thought about it as "cheat" that it can see through everyhing, its simply there and I must take it to account. There are just few cruisers with radar (6 + 2 premium if am I right). US cruisers are not played so often and with current number of cruisers in games you will rarely see two radar cruisers in one team.   

Its similar to guaranteed ship spotting at 2km (3km with module).

[G3Virus]

While complaints about realism tend to make me laugh (if that were the most unrealistic thing in the game...), I do think there are some rather bizarre mixed messages to IJN DD captains at the moment.

 

1. "We don't like the long range torp ninja role. We want you to move closer to engage. We're giving you shorter torp ranges, and possibly taking away that entire style of play in the next patch"

2. Radar (and high-tier German sonar). If you move closer to engage (and if there is a competent enemy team with a radar-capable ship) you die.

(yes, this is true to an extent of all other DD lines, but none of the others are quite as slow as the IJN ones or - except perhaps the Russians - have the Battleship-sized turning circles)

 

 

Well the way I see it there are Simulators, Games and Arcades, WOWS is a Game but it some what is turning in to an Arcade. A simulator would try to mimic Battle as realistic as possible, that would mean you would not aim guns with your mouse as I see it but rather observe the enemy, feed that info to an analogue Computer in game, similar to the TDC I used in Silent Hunter that the US Fleet boats used to compute a fireing solution.

 

But asking for "realism" at some level is not the same as a Simulator. WoWs is not a simulator and claiming so would be ridiculous but dumbing it do0wn to arcade levels would be a shame to.

 

Asking for radar not to see trough land masses is not unreasonable and I would say most people would assume that how radar in a "game" would work since its very function is to detect obstacles and it wont care if its and island or a ship, what ever is in the way reflects the radio waves back with a traditional radar and what's behind is not shown.

 

G3Virus: I see your point. But DDs needs some counter when there is no CV in game. Radars are not for long and you have just few charges (2-3).

Cruisers life is hard now so dont make it even harder.

Im playing DDs also and I was killed because radar/hydro many times so I know how it feels, but I never thought about it as "cheat" that it can see through everyhing, its simply there and I must take it to account. There are just few cruisers with radar (6 + 2 premium if am I right). US cruisers are not played so often and with current number of cruisers in games you will rarely see two radar cruisers in one team.   

Its similar to guaranteed ship spotting at 2km (3km with module).

 

Like I stated in my previous post and everyone before that in other threads, Im perfectly fine with radar being LONGER to offset the  removal of ground penetrating radar. Now WG decided to BUFF the reload time by halving it. THATS A BIG BUFF!

 

Now you could complain to WG to restore the cooldown in favour of longer radar time, either works with me but ground penetrating radar as is now is just dumb and it needs to factor islands in to account as blind spots.

 

If cruisers cant work with a "proper" raidar then they need to work on there skill level just like the rest of us.

Thats what TACTICS are all about.

If your outsmarted then the other player was better then you, learn and adapt or realise that some might simply be better then you.

 

And there are PLENTY of ways of detecting DD's, I play 50% DD, 50% BB, a little cruiser here and there but most of them are generic and boring with few exceptions and its not because of DD's because they are easy pray as is now for Cruisers.

I dont even have a problem with DD's as a BB.

In one match I killed all 3 DD's and there CV in my BB, I mean its all about tactics and skill in the end.

Only problem I have with DD's is the fact that 100BB's, 5 Cruisers and 5 DD's can be in queue and WG MM still throws 5-6 DD's in every team because it was programmed to have a high DD population in every team and match causing a DD shoot out and thats not very fun is it.

 

In fact most Cruiser players just play there ships badly, they drop torps when they should use main guns and causing TK way to often, they dont hunt DD's but rather try to go 1VS1 with BB's.

Even a ZAO can onshoot a T10 full HP DD and there rail gun Cruisers at high tier to so the radar as is now can kill one or more DD's easily.

 

More counter against DD's wont bring Cruisers back, Cruisers sucks for all other kind of reasons, and its not my fault or the players fault there are no CVs around. Its WG fault!

 

I liked CV's when I played open Beta and I mean I like having them around to spice the gameplay up.

Back then CV players where smart, they moved around and if not people raged at them for camping.

You rarely see that now. CV's back then did not pull there planes directly to there location giving it away.

They also played for there team and not for them self as they do now so everyone else is just meat for the CV's making people hate.

I sure as hell dont want to play as a CV and take all that rage.

Yesterday I lost count on the number of camping CV's I killed with torps and Citadels behind islands.

One I even found by mistake in my  Budyonny and managed to hit with first salvo of torps at 4km behind an island nuking him and wining the game.

The majority of GOOD CV players probably left the game or that ship line long ago and now where stuck with camping CV beginners that cant learn to play properly and rage quits from frustration and WG solution is to add island for them to camp behind to in encourage poor tactics?

Its even in there new how to play this map videos!

Nowadays I dont even care when there not around, WG broke them totally and have not made any progress in making them a fun addition to the game for anyone.