BB's and Torpedoes

[Listy]

But its not what you think!

 

For the last year there's been a basic law in this game, and its been a key part of the games mechanics. That is, Battleships don't get torpedoes. It made sense in a way as it worked like this:

 

A DD who closed up to a BB for a torpedo run would get carved up by the secondaries, and maybe the main guns if the BB player was any good. To avoid this the DD's got smoke, which in turn signals to the BB that there's a chance of incoming torps. Fair enough all nice and balanced.

A Cruiser that closes up to a BB for a torp attack is likely to get battered to hell by the BB's main guns. With multiple big number citadels. Fair enough, all nice and balanced.

In Return a BB that pushes his luck agaisnt either of the other two will eat a face full of torps. So all three elements are nicely balanced and all is great. Equally the Battleship is heavily armoured to slug it out with other battleships, and shrug off some of the incoming damage.

In fact to go to these lengths many Battleships get their torpedo tubes ignored.

 

Then the Germans arrive.

Now a German Battleship can sail up to a enemy battleship and launch a spread of Torps into him, while the other battleship can't do squat apart from praying for a fluke RNG hit that gets a citadel. In a close range fight the German BB will nearly always win. In essence the argument is Torpedoes on battleships are too powerful.

Consider this, Tirpitz sold really well (and so is the Scharnhost), and was horrifically popular. Yet the tech tree ship is no where near as common. What's the difference? In the T8 Case, its the Torpedo tubes. Same ship, just one gets torp tubes, the other doesn't.

 

So we now have Battleships that can't close with enemy BB's, and this is causing a game imbalance. Especially with lower tiers getting upgraded all the time, as one of the things lower tiers could do to higher was ram them. Nope, can't do that now.

 

So for the good of the game play should all BB's get torpedoes removed?

[Loran_Battle]

I am fairly certain that not that many people have the Bismarck yet, because it isn't out that long. I do not agree with you that we can compare the popularity just on the basis of the torpedoes. One is a premium ship that has been available for a year or so, the other is a tier 8 ship that you need to grind out, which will take time.

 

In any case. Those few BBs that have torpedoes (Scharn, Gnei and Tirp) have only 6km range with them. If you play smart, you will not get within this range. If you do, you can still avoid them or only take 1 (or maybe this is something weird that I do?). Going that close to another BB is really a last resort anyways.

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

BB players in general need to grow a pair and play the class as it was meant to rather than being the gutless cowards failing their way to tier X. If torpedo armed battleships is the next excuse for BB players not closing the distance to the enemy the future of this game looks bleak.

 

Remember those immortal words from a certain leader of men, that should need no further introduction, and play by them when playing battleships:

"Engage the enemy more closely"

 

[aboomination]

Yet the tech tree ship is no where near as common. What's the difference?

 

Insta-buy vs grind, also Tirpitz is a money-maker. Looking at my division mate, he just unlocked the König 

[Srle_Vigilante]

So just because you got torped by a German Battleship in a game you immediately pull the nerf card on all 3 battleships that all have 1 thing in common. Below average Man battery guns. If you ever played a german Battleship (which you haven't) you would see that the torp are useless most of the time because of their c**p range. Please next time you actually start bashing something that its OP, drive it your self because otherwise your argument falls flat on its face.

[_Flyto_]

Eh.

 

Getting close to a battleship is always a dangerous proposition. Getting close to a German battleship even more so, because (torps aside) it's where they love to fight the most. If you don't wanna be so close, sail away from it.

[Spellfire40]

Torps have 6km range. If your still sailing Broadside to the 3 (2 Prem,1Line) That have it and cant dodge the one spread per side its entirely your fault.

[steviln]

Those BBs have torpedos because they had them historically. 

[VapeyVic]

When it comes to the Tirpitz i'll be honest, i rarely use the torps, cause half the time i forget they are there.  When i do use torps its only as a last resort, or as a way to force a BB to show its side.

[Spellfire40]

Those BBs have torpedos because they had them historically. 

 

​quite a few had underwater fixed tubes and dont have then in game. Here its a balancing Tool nothing more nothing less.

[T0byJug]

I am fairly certain that not that many people have the Bismarck yet, because it isn't out that long. I do not agree with you that we can compare the popularity just on the basis of the torpedoes. One is a premium ship that has been available for a year or so, the other is a tier 8 ship that you need to grind out, which will take time.

 

In any case. Those few BBs that have torpedoes (Scharn, Gnei and Tirp) have only 6km range with them. If you play smart, you will not get within this range. If you do, you can still avoid them or only take 1 (or maybe this is something weird that I do?). Going that close to another BB is really a last resort anyways.

This

 

Bismark has no torps but much stronger AA

 

German BBs with Torps

 

Scharnhorst Tier 7 9x11 28CM guns

Gneisenau Tier 7 6X38cm guns

Tirpitz Tier 8 8x38cm guns

 

All these BBs have weaker faster loading guns than the same tier counterpart in other BB lines they also have less guns. This is the thing with these ships weaker guns but short range Torps! If you are in a BB dont get within 6km to these BBs.

 

At ranges under 10km these BBs are very Vulnerable the 40.8 cm guns they face. The torpedoes balance this

[Aotearas]

Only three BBs in this game have torps: Tirpitz, Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. The first two are premium ships and the latter one arguably needs them as an equalizer since it has significantly less firepower than its same tier competitors (3x2 380mms vs 4x2 406mm and 4x2 410mm).

 

As for why some BBs that had torpedo tubes don't have them ingame? Because those were submerged, fixed position tubes that could only fire in a straight line. A straightline from your broadside I might add. You'd have to aim those torps by waggling your broadside at prospective targets. Afaik there is only a single confirmed hit ever achieved from those fixed tubes and that was the HMS Rodney getting a hit on the Bismarck after closing within essentially spitting ditance to the smoldering and barely floating wreck of the latter ...

 

And the Bismarck doesn't get torpedoes because she was never fitted with them. The Tirpitz got them after a retrofit.

[Loran_Battle]

 

Bismark has no torps

 

German BBs with Torps

 

Scharnhorst Tier 7 9x11 28CM guns

Gneisenau Tier 7 6X38cm guns

Tirpitz Tier 8 8x38cm guns

 

All these BBs have weaker faster loading guns than the same tier counterpart in other BB lines they also have less guns. This is the thing with these ships weaker guns but short range Torps! If you are in a BB dont get within 6km to these BBs.

 

At ranges under 10km these BBs are very Vulnerable the 40.8 cm guns they face

 

Did you mean to quote me? If so, read my post again.

[T0byJug]

 

Did you mean to quote me? If so, read my post again.

 

I was agreeing and adding to you post!!! just forgot to say i was agreeing 

Edited my post to make it clear

[Verdius]

So what you are saying is BBs are best torpedoboat? 
 

A DD who closed up to a BB for a torpedo run would get carved up by the secondaries, and maybe the main guns if the BB player was any good. To avoid this the DD's got smoke, which in turn signals to the BB that there's a chance of incoming torps. Fair enough all nice and balanced.

 

Smoke is not the signal that tips BBs off most of the time, it is the massive detectability of the torps, hydro, aircraft, and Radar that gives them half a century to turn in. Smoke is not really used for stealthtorping but rather for stealth firing with main guns since those would otherwise increase your detection range.

[praetor_jax]

 

 

"Engage the enemy more closely"

 

Are you quoting David "please feel free to smoke near the cordite bags" Beatty?

[ColonelPete]

You are ignoring the fact that you can see the german BB from 12+km away and act accordingly.

6km torps that you can evade from 12km are not really powerful.

[Loran_Battle]

6km torps that you can evade from 12km are not really powerful.

 

Actually, I am usually quite apprehensive about allied Tirpitz players near me... For some reason a lot of players in general think that torping something 20km away is sure to be usefull regardless the ship they are in.

[aboomination]

6km torps that you can evade from 12km are not really powerful.

 

Especially since a lot of players launch them from said distances 

[Vanhal]

 

Actually, I am usually quite apprehensive about allied Tirpitz players near me... For some reason a lot of players in general think that torping something 20km away is sure to be usefull regardless the ship they are in.

 

They usually get basic idea that the torps don't have unlimited range when they normally reach tier 4. Although i saw this kind of players even at regular 7+ ships.

 

Wait a minute...

So THAT's why Shima nerf hurt some player that much... they just haven't check their torps range at all during the 1-10 grind

[Aotearas]

 

They usually get basic idea that the torps don't have unlimited range when they normally reach tier 4. Although i saw this kind of players even at regular 7+ ships.

 

Wait a minute...

So THAT's why Shima nerf hurt some player that much... they just haven't check their torps range at all during the 1-10 grind

 

Naw, players either learn their torpedo ranges as soon as they look at a newly acquired ship's stats in port, or never at all.

[T0byJug]

 

Naw, players either learn their torpedo ranges as soon as they look at a newly acquired ship's stats in port, or never at all.

 

There rely is no excuse any more as you can enable Range circles on map for your torpedoes.

[Aotearas]

 

There rely is no excuse any more as you can enable Range circles on map for your torpedoes.

 

You're assuming people are aware of the minimap.

 

That is already more credit than the majority of the players that I see in games deserve!

 

And this week is especially bad. Someone should tell them that the triple XP event is over, because the standard of gameplay these couple days is abnormally low for midweek ... thouhg it doesn't help that I'm currently grinding the Bayern and being uptiered by the MM every single game (WG really broke the MM with the latest changes to it, tiers V and VI are no fun to play at all ... to think the previous MM was bad and now this ).

[Corvi]

Secondaries do way too little dmg to DD's sadly. Had a Benson try to torprush my NC a few battles back, he took 51 ! 127mm HE shells from my fully Sec skilled ship, and only lost like half of his HP. Had to kill him with the main battery when he was turning to torp, needlessly to say he managed to fire a slavo and i took 50k dmg .... Secondaries should do a lot more dmg to DD, as for now they are not very usefull.

[Aotearas]

Secondaries do way too little dmg to DD's sadly. Had a Benson try to torprush my NC a few battles back, he took 51 ! 127mm HE shells from my fully Sec skilled ship, and only lost like half of his HP. Had to kill him with the main battery when he was turning to torp, needlessly to say he managed to fire a slavo and i took 50k dmg .... Secondaries should do a lot more dmg to DD, as for now they are not very usefull.

 

General problem with direct HE damage having been nerfed across the board.

 

I stopped switched to HE to engage DDs when I play BBs entirely. Even an overpenetration does basically the same damage as the same caliber HE shells and if I get a solid penetration the damage potential just skyrocketed compared to HE.