Royal BB line

[Redcap375]

Chaps...These three are a complete given in my and others that have played the game opinion:

 

1) Nelson at tier 7 (just makes sense in everything)

2) KGV at tier 8 (was built to take on Bismark)

3) Vanguard at tier 9 (last British BB to be built)

 

As for tier 6 and lower who knows to be honest, they could use a number of BBs and tier 10 will be completely made up (paper). 

 

So what about the HMS Hood lads? Its going to be a prem no question about it...But where?

 

 

 

[Origin47]

These are my opinions on tiers 7-9;

 

• HMS Vanguard at tier 8, since it has the exact main armament configuration as the Bismark-class;
• Nelson at tier 9, since it has 3x3 16" and all 3 turret placed in the front, just like the Izumo;
• KGV tier 7, because it has 14" guns and for the reasons stated above.

 

 

[GhostRiderMax123]

Chaps...These three are a complete given in my and others that have played the game opinion:

 

1) Nelson at tier 7 (just makes sense in everything)

2) KGV at tier 8 (was built to take on Bismark)

3) Vanguard at tier 9 (last British BB to be built)

 

As for tier 6 and lower who knows to be honest, they could use a number of BBs and tier 10 will be completely made up (paper). 

 

So what about the HMS Hood lads? Its going to be a prem no question about it...But where?

 

 

 

 

I don't see Vanguard being at tier 9 to be honest it would more than likely be a tier 8. The Lion class BB's would make better tier 9 and 10 BB's plus I suspect Vanguard could well become a premium seeing as it was the last BB built.

[Diminios]

So what about the HMS Hood lads? Its going to be a prem no question about it...But where?

 

 

I imagine there shall be much weeping and gnashing of teeth if it isn't T8. After all, it fought the Bismarck!

 

Ok, seriously: I see it as T7, maaaaybe T7.5. Same guns as the Warspite, according to the Wiki (just the guns, no idea about the fire control), similar armour to the Nagato (weaker deck, better turret armour), with 30-ish kts speed.

[Webley_Mark]

I have always saw the Hood as a T-VII, lack of armor for making her a T-VIII.

 

But, if WG release the 1942 refit of the Hood, maybe we can have a solid T-VIII.

 

[Redcap375]

Chaps...These three are a complete given in my and others that have played the game opinion:

 

1) Nelson at tier 7 (just makes sense in everything)

2) KGV at tier 8 (was built to take on Bismark)

3) Vanguard at tier 9 (last British BB to be built)

 

Defo sticking with that list. Lets see shall we.

 

These are my opinions on tiers 7-9;

 

• HMS Vanguard at tier 8, since it has the exact main armament configuration as the Bismark-class;
• Nelson at tier 9, since it has 3x3 16" and all 3 turret placed in the front, just like the Izumo;
• KGV tier 7, because it has 14" guns and for the reasons stated above.

 

 

 

On that logic mate the Dunkirk would also be tier 9? My god, i pitty the poor french captain 

 

On a more serious note..The Hood.  The near complete lack of deck armour will force this ship to be played at tier 6-7.  Anything more that that and its stupid. A WW1 BB possibly taking on a Iowa or god forbid, the mighty Yam? Please.  Tier 7 i think would be the way forward but i think tier 6 is a maybe.  Tier 8 is far too much for this lovely ship i'm afraid lads.

 

[GhostRiderMax123]

 

Defo sticking with that list. Lets see shall we.

 

 

On that logic mate the Dunkirk would also be tier 9? My god, i pitty the poor french captain 

 

On a more serious note..The Hood.  The near complete lack of deck armour will force this ship to be played at tier 6-7.  Anything more that that and its stupid. A WW1 BB possibly taking on a Iowa or god forbid, the mighty Yam? Please.  Tier 7 i think would be the way forward but i think tier 6 is a maybe.  Tier 8 is far too much for this lovely ship i'm afraid lads.

 

 

I am inclined to agree

[Webley_Mark]

On a more serious note..The Hood.  The near complete lack of deck armour will force this ship to be played at tier 6-7.  Anything more that that and its stupid. A WW1 BB possibly taking on a Iowa or god forbid, the mighty Yam? Please.  Tier 7 i think would be the way forward but i think tier 6 is a maybe.  Tier 8 is far too much for this lovely ship i'm afraid lads.

 

Yeah... The lack of deck armor is strong with her.

[Eruantien_Aduialdraug]

 

Yeah. Nelson will likely be at least Tier 8 or Tier 9 due to it's absolutely insane layout of 9 x 16 inchers. For heavens sake it's the same as Izumo but with all 9 forward pointing instead!

 

I think that Wargaming cares much more about firepower then historical year, 1920 Amagi for example ended up being a Tier 8 next to 1937 North Carolina...

 

It should be noted that the Nelson's 16 inch guns are/should be inferior to all the other 16 inch guns in the game. The Colorado fires a 1016 kg AP shell at 768 m/s (muzzle energy of 599.16 MJ, muzzle momentum of 780.39 Mg.m/s), the Nagato fires a 1020 kg shell at 806 m/s (662.63 MJ, 822.12 Mg.m/s), and the Friedrich (first German 16 inch in game) fires a 1030 kg shell at 810 m/s (675.78 MJ, 834.3 Mg.m/s), compare to the Nelson's best of a 934.1 kg shell at 792 m/s (585.93 MJ, 739.81 Mg.m/s; this is redesigned shell for the 16" gun, initially the AP shells were 5 kg lighter and and 4 m/s slower). So in terms of "bow salvo" weight, it's 5604.6 kg vs the Colorado's 4064 kg, but the Colorado makes up for those two guns with better shell performance (likewise Nagato).

 

And at 23 knots she sits directly between the other two 16 inch battleships.

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

 

From the Izumo ( where the B and C turrets are even closer ) they only block like 5-10% of the forward angles, and with all 3 guns pointing forward it's very easy to switch from one side to the other ( unlike Izumo which needs turret C to turn 270 degrees to do so ).

 

The obscured angle is no where near how much you need to angle to get a rear gun firing.

 

And to the people saying the shell was too light and can't compete, well you have been gravely misinformed!

 

The Nelsons guns fired a 929kg shell @ 788m/s

 

This can be compared with the 15 inchers on Bismarck (Tier 8) and Stock Friedrich der Große (Tier 9) which both fires a 800kg shell @ 820m/s...

 

It's also way way heavier then the 721kg shells the British 15 inch guns fired @757m/s on the King George V:th class ( suggested Tier 8)

 

Even the Vanguard ( which was according to the suggestion classifies as a Tier 9 ship ) fired a lighter 879kg shell @ 749m/s ( so both lighter and slower ).

 

You have to compare the british BL 16 inch Mk1 gun and its 2048 lbs.16 inch APC projectiles with its contemporaries, that of the IJN and USN's equivalent guns the 41cm /45 3rd year and 16"/45 Mark 5 and 8 respectively, which if we exclude the Mk8 2700 lbs from the latter USN 16inch Mark 6 & 7. APC are all @2200 or so lbs. which are all 10% greater in weight providing the USN's MK 5 AP with better penetration at all ranges due to its higher momentum while the IJN 16inch APC did worse for reasons not known to me.

This would place the british 16 inchers between the IJN and USN on tier 7 performance wise but substantially behind those of tier VIII +. This would mean that the performance of the BL 16 inch Mk1 guns would make them the weakest BBs on tier VIII as their guns will be weaker penetration wise than all the other battleship main guns on tier VIII, yes even the german 38cm SK C/34 have far superior penetration untill 30 km range not to mention as being the ships with the lowest displacement the Nelson/Rodneys would be the BBs on tier VIII with lowest hit point pool as well.

 

It would simply not be fun to play ships that not only suffer in the performance of its guns but also having to contend with the fact that all the other battleships have at least 25% greater displacement thus a significant greater hitpoint pool than itself.

 

Therefore the Nelson class battleship belongs on tier 7 and not on tier 8.

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

 

Defo sticking with that list. Lets see shall we.

 

 

On that logic mate the Dunkirk would also be tier 9? My god, i pitty the poor french captain 

 

On a more serious note..The Hood.  The near complete lack of deck armour will force this ship to be played at tier 6-7.  Anything more that that and its stupid. A WW1 BB possibly taking on a Iowa or god forbid, the mighty Yam? Please.  Tier 7 i think would be the way forward but i think tier 6 is a maybe.  Tier 8 is far too much for this lovely ship i'm afraid lads.

 

 

Also the gameplay at tier 7 is much more fun and not to mention that the Shinyhorse will have its Royal Navy match in the Mighty Hood

[Oely001]

After some discussion on German board I find following ships most likely:

• Tier VI: Queen Elizabeth
• Tier VII: Admiral
• Tier VIII: Vanguard
• Tier IX: Lion
• Premiums: Tiger (T4), Renown (T5), Hood (T7), Nelson (T8), KGV (T8)

 

This makes the line smooth to play, with few caliber changes and no odd-calibers like KGV in the normal line. Like the solution with Gneisenau and Scharnhorst. There was some discussion about whether Nelson is T7 or T8; I would say it's T8.

[Webley_Mark]

Since Tiger is a Kongo, litteraly a Kongo, why putting her as a T4?

 

EDIT: Oh... Yes, she is a stock version of Kongo. Never mind.

[VC381]

If Amagi and her 9.8" belt is T8 material the Hood "could" be too. Don't forget her belt is inclined and she has a turtledeck too, up close she should be pretty solid (plunging fire not so much). The problem would be the guns, AA, fire control etc. So she would need a substantial refit to work at that tier. That's why I WANT her to be T7, so we can have her in a historic appearance.

 

All this really depends on the choices they make for how the whole line should feel. I doubt we'll get a mixed battleship/battlecruiser line and a pure battleship is more likely, plus Hood is easier to milk as a premium.

[BuccaneerBill]

Hoods deck should be OK, the ranges fought in this game tend to be low-mid.

[Trainspite]

Since Tiger is a Kongo, litteraly a Kongo, why putting her as a T4?

 

EDIT: Oh... Yes, she is a stock version of Kongo. Never mind.

 

It does rule out a RN BC line though, which is bad.

[Webley_Mark]

Hoods deck should be OK, the ranges fought in this game tend to be low-mid.

 

Lets take a look at the Hood deck armor, shall we?

 

So, we have something like... 76 mm, for the best part! 19mm for the worst.

 

Well;.. No that bad after all. But, we need the location of it.

[Sea_viper]

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/8124-march-5th-focus-hms-hood/

 took a look at the armor scheme of the Hood at the above link, and realise that its boiler room's roof is above the water line... and the 12" belt is only tall enough to block point blank trajectory to the engineering spaces, where at those ranges 12"+2" is just not enough... the armor slope is way to steep to be of any use... at mid range, no shell would have issue going pass the 7" belt and 2" slope in to citadel... I have serious quiestions about this layout choice....

[Oely001]

If you compare Hood with Amagi, Amagi is far stronger simply beause of its good artillery, and even AAA is probably much better. So IMHO Hood is T7 and never T8.

[Getzamatic]

While Hood's speed is competitive and her vertical armour is superior to Amagi's, her firepower simply isn't up to the standards of tier 8.  She makes more sense at tier 7 where she has competitive armour and superior speed at only the cost of gun calibre compared to Colorado and Nagato.

 

Putting Hood in the main line in place of Nelson does smooth out the progression significantly.  Even with their smaller guns, the KGVs are a clear step up from Hood - massively increased armour and AA plus two extra barrels at the cost of a knot in speed - in a way a lot of people don't accept that they were over the Nelsons...

[thestaggy]

While Hood's speed is competitive and her vertical armour is superior to Amagi's, her firepower simply isn't up to the standards of tier 8.  She makes more sense at tier 7 where she has competitive armour and superior speed at only the cost of gun calibre compared to Colorado and Nagato.

 

Putting Hood in the main line in place of Nelson does smooth out the progression significantly.  Even with their smaller guns, the KGVs are a clear step up from Hood - massively increased armour and AA plus two extra barrels at the cost of a knot in speed - in a way a lot of people don't accept that they were over the Nelsons...

 

No chance WG does that. The Hood is a cash-cow in waiting. You are looking at what is arguably the most hotly anticipated ship this game could offer. At the very least up there with Tirpitz/Bismarck.

[Oely001]

 

No chance WG does that. The Hood is a cash-cow in waiting. You are looking at what is arguably the most hotly anticipated ship this game could offer. At the very least up there with Tirpitz/Bismarck.

 

...this is why I suspect Admiral class as T7 standard and Hood as T7 Premium. Like Hipper/Prinz Eugen, New Mexico/Arizona, Gneisenau/Scharnhorst, Bismarck/Tirpitz.

 

From Admiral to KGV to Lion would be a little roller coaster in terms of gun calibre. I doubt Wargaming likes to do that.

[BuccaneerBill]

 

Lets take a look at the Hood deck armor, shall we?

 

So, we have something like... 76 mm, for the best part! 19mm for the worst.

 

Well;.. No that bad after all. But, we need the location of it.

 

I like this diagram of the stern. 

 

http://www.navweaps.com/index_inro/no21987-Internal_Layout.jpg

 

The magazines have a decent armount. The engines rooms somewhat less, could be a problem but still in total a minimum of 89mm total (thin plates not great IRL but shouldn't make much diff in game imo). Consider if you go through the lightly armout upper belt of Scharnhorst, she only has 80mm of deck, think Hood will be just fine, as long as you keep it within 14/15km or so. And not face stuff like the North Carolina!!!!

 

I think another vulnerable part is hitting the upper belt at just the right angle that it hits the angled armour deck not the horizontal, then its going to be a definite citadel. Think this was plated over in the magazine section but still present in the engine room section. 

[Getzamatic]

 

...this is why I suspect Admiral class as T7 standard and Hood as T7 Premium. Like Hipper/Prinz Eugen, New Mexico/Arizona, Gneisenau/Scharnhorst, Bismarck/Tirpitz.

 

From Admiral to KGV to Lion would be a little roller coaster in terms of gun calibre. I doubt Wargaming likes to do that.

 

L​ess of a roller coaster than QE-Nelson-KGV-Lion

[Oely001]

Coming from the real ships, Nelson has to be T7, no doubt. However, I think this will not happen, for these reasons: The 16'' high-speed guns are very special and don't fit to anything else in the British tree; Nelson will have a special gameplay in any way; Nelson is probably closer to T8 than to T7.

 

Same with KGV: Her 14'' makes her very special on T8, maybe like Scharnhorst on T7. One solution discussed on German forum was KGV with 3x3 15'' for standard T8 and real KGV with 14'' for T8-Premium; same as with Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.

 

Both Nelson and KGV would be Premium then, and Hood of course, an idea Wargaming probably does not dislike...