Royal BB line

[Captain_Riley]

As long as HMS Renown is in it at Tier VII I'll be happy. ^-^

[Todger_Fairmile]

As long as HMS Renown is in it at Tier VII I'll be happy. ^-^

 

I don't know If you could justify putting Renown at tier 7 of a British battlecruiser line. While Gneiseneau may have a similar number of 15" guns, It has about 50% more armour as well as a much heavier secondary battery including torpedoes. I can't see it being any higher than 6 and that's a stretch. The ONLY thing she would have going for her is speed. With only 6 15" guns and 9" of armour (and that after a refit, she originally only had 6") she'll be out classed by the other ships. Even Dunkerque's pushing it at 6, and she's as close as anything currently in the game to Renown.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

to early to say just wait first lol

[Todger_Fairmile]

to early to say just wait first lol

 

True, was just my opinion. I also think Dunkerque would have made a better tier 5. It's very close to Kongo in stats (has better armour, smaller guns). But maybe WG plans to make Strasbourg the tier 6 tech tree ship.

[1MajorKoenig]

 

True, was just my opinion. I also think Dunkerque would have made a better tier 5. It's very close to Kongo in stats (has better armour, smaller guns). But maybe WG plans to make Strasbourg the tier 6 tech tree ship.

 

Dunkerque is much better than Kongo because of her insane guns. She does very well at T6 as a battlecruiser.

 

OP - I think Renown is more of a T6 battlecruiser with Admiral/Hood filling the T7 spot

 

BCs would be something like this:

 

T3 Invincible/Indefatigable 

T4 Lion 

T5 Tiger

T6 Renown 

T7 Admiral

T8-10 paper (e.g. G3)

[VC381]

Unfortunately unlikely. The German line wasn't mixed, so I would assume the RN BB line will be pure battleships, at least to start with. Maybe, in the distant future, we might get a split line similar to IJN DDs, with a battlecruiser branch, or a couple of premium battlecruisers.

 

Renown would be T6 either way, less likely as a premium since Warspite fills that slot already. To be honest I would be surprised if we see anything more than Hood anytime soon.

[Getzamatic]

 

I don't know If you could justify putting Renown at tier 7 of a British battlecruiser line. While Gneiseneau may have a similar number of 15" guns, It has about 50% more armour as well as a much heavier secondary battery including torpedoes. I can't see it being any higher than 6 and that's a stretch. The ONLY thing she would have going for her is speed. With only 6 15" guns and 9" of armour (and that after a refit, she originally only had 6") she'll be out classed by the other ships. Even Dunkerque's pushing it at 6, and she's as close as anything currently in the game to Renown

 

​We have Kongo, which is rather closely related to Renown what with being nearly identical to Renown's immediate precursor, HMS Tiger.

 

"But Kongo was rebuilt as battleship!" I hear you all cry.  Yeah, kinda - but Renown was also comprehensively rebuilt and the rebuilt Renown was superior to a rebuilt Kongo in nearly every respect.

[philjd]

 

​We have Kongo, which is rather closely related to Renown what with being nearly identical to Renown's immediate precursor, HMS Tiger.

 

"But Kongo was rebuilt as battleship!" I hear you all cry.  Yeah, kinda - but Renown was also comprehensively rebuilt and the rebuilt Renown was superior to a rebuilt Kongo in nearly every respect.

 

But how about a rebuilt Tiger, with the WG magic 'wand of modernisation' - that would suit me

[VC381]

 

But how about a rebuilt Tiger, with the WG magic 'wand of modernisation' - that would suit me

 

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll118/kiyone4ever/TigerRebuild.png

 

Look pretty neat to me too...

[thestaggy]

As long as HMS Renown is in it at Tier VII I'll be happy. ^-^

 

The closest we will get to a RN battlecruiser for some time will probably be the Hood as a premium. I reckon the line will look something like this;

 

III - Bellerophon/St. Vincent/Neptune/Colossus-class

III Premium - HMS Dreadnought

IV - Orion-class

V - Iron Duke-class

V Premium - HMS Renown. Her armour would already be stretched at tier 5, so tier 6 doesn't seem like a good fit unless she is released when battlecruiser lines are officialy being introduced.

VI - Queen Elizabeth-class

VI Premium - HMS Warspite

VII - Nelson-class

VII Premium - HMS Hood

VIII - King George V-class

VIII Premium - HMS Prince of Wales or Duke of York

IX - Vanguard-class

X - Lion-class

 

Only problem here is the inconsistency of the guns from tier 7 to 10. Nelson gets monstrous 16-inchers, KGV goes backwards to 14-inchers, Vanguard mounts 15-inchers and Lion would've received 16-inchers. 

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

Only problem here is the inconsistency of the guns from tier 7 to 10. Nelson gets monstrous 16-inchers, KGV goes backwards to 14-inchers, Vanguard mounts 15-inchers and Lion would've received 16-inchers. 

 

Yeah. Nelson will likely be at least Tier 8 or Tier 9 due to it's absolutely insane layout of 9 x 16 inchers. For heavens sake it's the same as Izumo but with all 9 forward pointing instead!

 

I think that Wargaming cares much more about firepower then historical year, 1920 Amagi for example ended up being a Tier 8 next to 1937 North Carolina...

[Getzamatic]

 

Yeah. Nelson will likely be at least Tier 8 or Tier 9 due to it's absolutely insane layout of 9 x 16 inchers. For heavens sake it's the same as Izumo but with all 9 forward pointing instead!

 

I think that Wargaming cares much more about firepower then historical year, 1920 Amagi for example ended up being a Tier 8 next to 1937 North Carolina...

 

​Not a chance.  She's only capable of 23.5 knots and the guns weren't as potent as Nagato or Colorado's either.  Nor will her AA be be up to scratch at tier 8+ and her armour is only really equivalent to that of Colorado (although quite different in detail).

 

The turret layout cannot be the sine qua non of tier position, Dunkerque has an even "better" turret arrangement for bow tanking and she's only tier 6 because that's where the rest of her characteristics place her.

 

Amagi might be alongside the North Carolina at tier 8, but she is in the correct historical sequence for IJN battleships.

[thestaggy]

 

Yeah. Nelson will likely be at least Tier 8 or Tier 9 due to it's absolutely insane layout of 9 x 16 inchers. For heavens sake it's the same as Izumo but with all 9 forward pointing instead!

 

I think that Wargaming cares much more about firepower then historical year, 1920 Amagi for example ended up being a Tier 8 next to 1937 North Carolina...

 

How do you then balance;

 

A - The speed of Nelson. 23 knots on a BB that sees tier 10?

B - the AA of KGV and Vanguard as they are significantly better armed than the Nelsons were in this regard. You'd be looking at a North Carolina running around at tier 7 in terms of AA.

[Getzamatic]

 

The closest we will get to a RN battlecruiser for some time will probably be the Hood as a premium. I reckon the line will look something like this;

 

III - Bellerophon/St. Vincent/Neptune/Colossus-class

III Premium - HMS Dreadnought

IV - Orion-class

V - Iron Duke-class

V Premium - HMS Renown. Her armour would already be stretched at tier 5, so tier 6 doesn't seem like a good fit unless she is released when battlecruiser lines are officialy being introduced.

VI - Queen Elizabeth-class

VI Premium - HMS Warspite

VII - Nelson-class

VII Premium - HMS Hood

VIII - King George V-class

VIII Premium - HMS Prince of Wales or Duke of York

IX - Vanguard-class

X - Lion-class

 

Only problem here is the inconsistency of the guns from tier 7 to 10. Nelson gets monstrous 16-inchers, KGV goes backwards to 14-inchers, Vanguard mounts 15-inchers and Lion would've received 16-inchers. 

 

 I​ think Vanguard will be a tier 8 premium, with the 1939 Lion class at tier 9 and one of the later iterations of the Lion design at tier 10 (perhaps the 57,000 ton version with epic deck protection and rapid fire 16" guns)  Otherwise I think you're on the money.

 

Failing that, Vanguard might be held back for a tier 8 ship in a future Battlecruiser line, following on from the Admirals and leading to the G3s.

[thestaggy]

 

 I​ think Vanguard will be a tier 8 premium, with the 1939 Lion class at tier 9 and one of the later iterations of the Lion design at tier 10 (perhaps the 57,000 ton version with epic deck protection and rapid fire 16" guns)  Otherwise I think you're on the money.

 

Failing that, Vanguard might be held back for a tier 8 ship in a future Battlecruiser line, following on from the Admirals and leading to the G3s.

 

I can see that happening. Kind of like they used the various H-designs when implementing the tier 9 and 10 German BBs.

[philjd]

and Vanguard was officially classed as a Battlecruiser (design specification)

 

[GhostRiderMax123]

Don't think HMS Vanguard would do to well at tier 9 unless it was buffed to make it better???

 

Personally I would rather see her as a tier 8 premium

 

Is it just me or does that HMS Tiger rebuild look similar to the Kongo???

 

[Historynerd]

 

 

Which "Royal" do you mean?

The Italian Navy was the "Regia Marina" (literal translation for "Royal Navy").

And even if monarchy in France did not exist later than 1870, the French Navy was still known back in the day as "La Royale"...

 

Seriously now, I doubt that the Renown can be at Tier VII. I see at that level the Hood, but any earlier ship can't qualify in my opinion.

[philjd]

Don't think HMS Vanguard would do to well at tier 9 unless it was buffed to make it better???

 

Personally I would rather see her as a tier 8 premium

 

Is it just me or does that HMS Tiger rebuild look similar to the Kongo???

 

 

The Kongo class was the 'prototype' of the Tiger, both British designs and builds (Kongo, not the other 3 in the class)

[BuccaneerBill]

Renown will be awesome at tier 6. Top class boat.

[Getzamatic]

 

The Kongo class was the 'prototype' of the Tiger, both British designs and builds (Kongo, not the other 3 in the class)S

​

It seems that Vickers based Kongo on same the proposal for an improved Lion that resulted in Tiger.  They were effectively concurrent designs and in theory HMS Queen Mary could have been built to the same design as Tiger, but the RN was presumably feeling conservative when they ordered her and would only adopt the more advanced Tiger design after the characteristics of Kongo were already known.

[Trainspite]

It's not a shameless plug if you make changes right? 

Good, because hopefully there are no large arguments with this:

 

 

[philjd]

​

It seems that Vickers based Kongo on same the proposal for an improved Lion that resulted in Tiger.  They were effectively concurrent designs and in theory HMS Queen Mary could have been built to the same design as Tiger, but the RN was presumably feeling conservative when they ordered her and would only adopt the more advanced Tiger design after the characteristics of Kongo were already known.

 

There's a year between them, but I won't quibble

[Hauptbahnhof]

The turret layout cannot be the sine qua non of tier position, Dunkerque has an even "better" turret arrangement for bow tanking and she's only tier 6 because that's where the rest of her characteristics place her.

 

Uhm...

 

The Dunkerque has 8x13 inch guns... That gives her less firepower then Kongo at tier 5 with 8x14 inch guns, and significantly less then the other tier 6:s with 15inch / 12x14inch guns!!! ( so the turret arrangement explains why she ends up at tier 6 regardless )

 

My entire point was that turret arrangement in combination with 16 inch guns on the Nelsons gives it way way to much firepower to be considered equal to tier 6 or 7.

 

Just take a look at the following comparison on tier 7 and judge if Nelson fit there:

Nelson: 9 forward 16 inch

Nagato: 4 forward 16 inch

Gneisenau: 4 forward 15 inch

Colorado: 4 forward 16 inch

 

At Tier 8 you at least got the 6 forward 16 inch of USA or Japans Amagi with so great angles you can most of the time use all 10 guns when angled forward still.

 

And I don't see why speed must be an argument seeing as Yamato is only going at 27 knots at tier 10, Nelson is 23.5 knots actually so only 3.5 knots slower of a tier 10 Battleship.

[VC381]

It's not really 9 forward though, except maybe at max range, since the third turret can't fire through the second. Depending on the turret angles, Nelson might have to show just the same broadside to fire all 9 guns as the other ships do to fire their rear turrets. I know the BB meta is "bow in" but I really doubt it will be overly strong. Absolutely nothing else about the ship justfies a higher tier, her shells individually are already weaker than the 16" guns on the other T7 ships and no match for NCs shells, even if the size is the same.