0.5.12 Economy Feedback

[Cynd3r]

Hey Commanders,

 

Please answer the attached poll regarding economy feedback.

[L_E_Potato]

So, to add to an already punishing economy in high tiers you have now came up with a way to further reduce player income. So, if a BB plays like a BB, he gets punished with less credits. But if it plays like a DD, gets rewarded but won't last 2 minutes in the battle.

[Holle74]

AFK players ships still have active secondary and AA guns opening fire automatically when opponent reach range of fire limit... so penalty for AFK can be still avoided. NO GOOD!!!

[Flukeyluke]

t9-10 is now barricaded off from players who dont have primium due to the repair costs.

closeing in and brawling is no longer a viable way of playing battleships over t8

 

just had an above average game in my amagi

if i had been useing camo (-8k) and upgraded consumables (-67k) i would of lost money at T8,

2 Daily missions granted 55k but this is unreliable and should not be counted on since its rng based and only attainable once per day

this is not a problem i face on the live server unless i play t10s or get detonated

 

looks like the only way to play battleships AND turn a profit will be to sit at the far end of your detection range and let your team take the damage while you fire and drop back into stealth

 

pictures below of my game to back up what i said

 

Edit 2, the lower income and takeing more damage seems to be forceing the battleships to sit EVEN further out than they are on the live server

[krautjaeger]

One thing I do not understand so far, I was at the front line the whole time, even further than the DDs, and I got 2902 spotting damage. Is the mechanic different in WoWs compared to WoT in some way?

[GhostRiderMax123]

I don't think the new patch is going to help the BB camping issue if anything it will make it worse.

[Shanchat]

If a player looses their connection either at the start of a game and can't get it back in time I guess they'll be punished through no fault of their own. 

No credits at the end of game as you purpose but turn their ship yellow for not fighting. Although to be fair I've had games were I haven't been fast enough to do any damage or if my shooting is bad.

If the persist in not fighting after x amount of games then punish them harshly.

 

[krautjaeger]

Ok, so now I've been on the very front as a BB in a few battles and get very little spotting damage even though I can view much farther than the rest and ships pop in and out between islands. It seems to me that the one that gets any kind of spotting damage is the one that spots it first. Like a DD that goes in, spots, then retreats to safety. This will be exploited if so. If you are at the front, and you are keeping people lit, you are the one that should get the bonus for at as you are tanking and keeping it going.

[naztb]

Didn't notice any real change in the economics and you don't know what actually earns you credits and XP  this needs to shown in the post battle report what exp and credits were earned for what action they were awarded for ?

XXX XP XXX credits for capping XXX XP XXX credits for spotting first  XXX XP XXX credits for assistance damage while continuing to spot target as it takes damage  XXX XP XXX credits for damage caused unless you get specific breakdowns you don,t know what you got or where you went wrong.? before it was simple you did damage or capped you got xp and credits no one actually knows what the xp and credits are awarded for now

 

One thing that is insane apart from the repair costs at High tier in coop battle you only get 50% of rewards but you still have to pay the full cost of repairs which is wrong the repairs should be scaled to match the rewards so if reward is 50% less than random battle then repair cost should be 50% less. I play early hours of the morning and there are not a lot of people on so you only really have coop as there are not enough high tier to make teams 

[krautjaeger]

Now in a DD, on the very front lines, spotted three BBs and got absolutely no spotting damage. I do not understand how this mechanic is supposed to work, please explain to us.

 

EDIT: In essence, you need to be more transparent on how this new economy is supposed to work for us to test it properly. You can't have a vote when no one knows what's going on in detail.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

Now in a DD, on the very front lines, spotted three BBs and got absolutely no spotting damage. I do not understand how this mechanic is supposed to work, please explain to us.

 

EDIT: In essence, you need to be more transparent on how this new economy is supposed to work for us to test it properly. You can't have a vote when no one knows what's going on in detail.

 

Agree absolutely.

Please stop these childish guessing games and tell the players how XP really works. Thank You.

[Mandyxx]

I just played a battle as a "bot player". I start the battle (in co-op), set a course at low speed on last line and did nothing. Didn`t shot, nothing.

Still got good xp for a "bot player". In random probably was better xp and credits.

 

You still have to change something.

[Segador]

 

Is normal in PTS to earn in a T9 BB 140.000 credicts and 1600 xp in a victory, whit premium, +50% for first victory and 80k dmg done?

 

Because if this is the new economy count me out.

 

[300ConfirmedKills]

Considering that there are effectively no economic limitations on the PT server, I'm at a loss as to why anyone might ascribe the behaviour of the players there to the profitability of the economic regime in place.

 

The mechanics of the spotting rewards are quite opaque at the moment. The UI makes it very easy to see how well you're doing with damage dealt or points captured. Not so for spotting. Before spotting ships becomes part of the economy, it needs to be represented in the UI. I suggest a ribbon which tracks ship-seconds spotted.

 

Finally, I don't understand why the announcement of the PT said the econ changes were, in part, intended to punish destroyers who capture empty flags. Games are decided by points so often that it is clearly a very important part of a destroyer's job to capture flags, and the XP gains in place currently reflect this. The announced rationale sends out a very mixed message.

[Smeggo]

Devs said that economy changes is not tested in PT anyway....

[SirBlemmingtonSmythe]

 I don't understand why the announcement of the PT said the econ changes were, in part, intended to punish destroyers who capture empty flags. Games are decided by points so often that it is clearly a very important part of a destroyer's job to capture flags, and the XP gains in place currently reflect this. The announced rationale sends out a very mixed message.

 

This!  Having the fast speeds that destroyers are capable of means they are the vessel to re-cap flags, I mean that's how the game has played and it's an obvious strategy.  You're not going to have battleships steaming full speed at 18 knots to re-cap a flag in a hurry are you?  Penalising destroyer players for helping the team to win doesn't sound like an exercise in teamwork to me.

[Kalybeos]

Now in a DD, on the very front lines, spotted three BBs and got absolutely no spotting damage. I do not understand how this mechanic is supposed to work, please explain to us.

 

EDIT: In essence, you need to be more transparent on how this new economy is supposed to work for us to test it properly. You can't have a vote when no one knows what's going on in detail.

 

Hi Krautjaeger,

 

From what I know about the game mechanics I'd say it works as follows:

 

Every ship has a Detectability Range on it, in which, if a ship enters it with Line of Sight towards it, it will be uncovered and visible.

So if you are the first one, that gets within that circle of the enemy Ship, with Line of Sight towards it, you'll be the one that spotted it, and be rewarded the Spotting Damage.

 

If you drive a BB trying to spot things, it doesn't matter how far you can see, this is only interesting for what will be shown on your Monitor.

If you drive a DD spotting BBs that have huge Detectability Areas, it can very well be, that others either spotted them before you, or kept spotting them after you went into hiding (Islands, Soke etc.)

Also, if you are in a BB and there where other ships ahead of you when an enemy ship gets uncovered, it is very likely that they where the ones that spotted it.

 

If a ship gets Spotted by a friendly ship, it will be spotted by that ship until it leaves the Detectability Area of the spotted ship or Line of Sight is no longer given.

 

[THE_GENERAL89]

The new system is not how the earning credits and exp should be need to be more transparence and constructive unswer from the moderators or the developers of the game why make things so  complicated guys like (spoting first, potencial damage and other stuff like this) if u have intention to improve the economy of the game make it more simple raise the bonus for each nation % earned in specific tiers or category in a new code and the problem will resolved or just make a new list of how to earn credits like if 1) u cap a flag or enemy base u get example 30.000 credits 2) kill a enemy cruiser 25.000 3) kill a BB 40.000 credit etc etc  if the tier ship u kill are lower than yours -1 u get a penality of -75 % earned if -2 tiers below -50 %  is more simple to undestand like this just gived a example  this way ppl will make there own calculation how much they earned  and will push em to grind to get those kills making ppl play agresivly cuz they will at last cover the repairs  of this big ships in high tiers. I understand that the game need to earn and is a bussines company but this take out the joy of playing the desire ship that we want. Thank u for reading my long message THE_GENERAL89 salute u  

[Spithas]

Now in a DD, on the very front lines, spotted three BBs and got absolutely no spotting damage. I do not understand how this mechanic is supposed to work, please explain to us.

 

EDIT: In essence, you need to be more transparent on how this new economy is supposed to work for us to test it properly. You can't have a vote when no one knows what's going on in detail.

 

It's simple really.

 

Unlike World of Tanks the ships in World of Warships are very easily spotted. Once a ship has fired it's gun unless it's a DD or a Zao sitting all the way in the back it will be spotted by everything within at least 15km of it. BBs are practically spotted by anything with a line of sight after they fire. So even though you might be the closest ship in these cases even the ships that are 10-15km behind you are also spotting the targets on their own.

 

So the opportunities for getting spotting damage are extremely limited to the following scenarios: 1) You are spotting a stealthy DD  that noone else is in range to spot and your team is damaging him 2) you are flanking the enemy team spotting ships that are behind islands etc and your team are shooting them and finally 3) You are hydroing or radaring smoked up ships and your team hits them.

 

This entire patch basically shows that WG has absolutely no clue how this game is played. If they had just kept the economy as it was or maybe slightly nerf it ... like 5% max and kept the spotting XP - Credits as an additional bonus it would be fine... but they thought that spotting etc would make up for the current earnings which shows how clueless they are.

[DXANDER]

WG please take into account people paying for premium ships that want more credits by playing those ships - you should increase credit income for all premium ships , to take into account your "economy balance". In the current state premium ships , except those at tier 8, do not earn enough net credits. Also , you should NOT nerf credit income for standard battleships players and you should NOT take into account spotting and capping for battleships , just damage - otherwise you will reward players which rush and die in the first minutes and do not do any significant damage .... If you want faster matches , just buff speed on all ships with 10 knots and decrease match length to 15 minutes.

[PeterBrooks_1]

Didn't notice any real change in the economics and you don't know what actually earns you credits and XP  this needs to shown in the post battle report what exp and credits were earned for what action they were awarded for ?

XXX XP XXX credits for capping XXX XP XXX credits for spotting first  XXX XP XXX credits for assistance damage while continuing to spot target as it takes damage  XXX XP XXX credits for damage caused unless you get specific breakdowns you don,t know what you got or where you went wrong.? before it was simple you did damage or capped you got xp and credits no one actually knows what the xp and credits are awarded for now

 

One thing that is insane apart from the repair costs at High tier in coop battle you only get 50% of rewards but you still have to pay the full cost of repairs which is wrong the repairs should be scaled to match the rewards so if reward is 50% less than random battle then repair cost should be 50% less. I play early hours of the morning and there are not a lot of people on so you only really have coop as there are not enough high tier to make teams 

If WG would make the full XP calculation public it might avoid bad feeling like this. Same for credits.

[RonWhisper]

WARGAMING, This is your answer!!! KARMA-CIRCLES

 

What you are doing now with your "PUNISHMENT MECHANIC" is trying to FORCE people to change their gameplay. This will not work, but will only make people more scared. Gameplay will be alterd much more easily when you motivate people. Just like "it's a lot easier to teach a dog a trick,with a cookie than a stick". The following can be applied to any kind of game-type. Give a credit boost for being in the heat of the action. Give DDs MORE credits for going in to caps and for spotting. THAT is their JOB. Give Cruisers a credit boost for being near a cap when it is being captured or when they are defending it, They NEED to support their DDs. Give BBs a credit bonus for moving up to a supportive distance from their cruisers. They need to defend their cruisers, not sit in the back more than they already are doing and snipe while praying to RN-Gsus (and this is what WILL happen now that you are nerfing bow armour on BBs).

 

My suggestion is VERY simple. Since you guys already proved you can draw circles very good, these are a fiew suggestions that WILL ENCURRAGE people to play more agressive twords the enemy and supportive to their team members. Here's the rolldown in a fiew very easy steps per class and how to set it up.

 

FIRST OFF!!!

Introduce a new game mechanic: Let's call this the "Karma-Circle" (You can couple this to the maneuverability stat of the ships)

Draw an invissible circle around ships. Per default, make these circles around the ships a minimum of 5km for ships with a maneuverability of/exeding 65 points. Increase this circle up to 12.5km for ships with a movement rating of below/less than 20 points (you can even tweek this per class)

 

CHANGES TO THE SHIP ECONEMY PER CLASS

 

DD's: 

- REWARD them when they go in to a cap and take this for the team. DOUBLE the credit reward for this and HALF their repair bill when they die or suffer damage in

  or close to a contested cap! (close to, meaning when their Karma-Circle overlaps the borderzone of a base/cap)

- REWARD DD's when they are spotting enemy ships so the friendly ships can engage these targets. Don't give them the XP for the spotting, but give them 50% of 

  the credits for the damage done to those enemies by their team members while spotting these targets,

- Draw an invissible circle around bases and Caps 5 km greater than the base/cap circle, creating a 5KM border around the base/caps. When DD's die in this area,

  and within the cap (both friendly base/caps and contested)  REDUCE their repair bill by HALF (after all, they are fullfilling their role as DDS: Spotting and capping).

 

Cruisers:

- REWARD them when they get in close to a cap and support the DD's while they cap. Give them DOUBLE credits when engaging (or sinking) targets from inside the

  border zone (or when the Karma-Circle overlaps the base/cap) wich are contesting that specific cap. HALF their repair bill when they die in or close to a contested cap!

  (read: when their Karma-Circle overlaps the "borderzone")

- REWARD them when they support DD's who are spotting enemy units taking a friendly cap by DOUBLING the credit bonus when engaging those spotted units. When

  they are spotting enemy ships so the friendly BB's can engage these targets. Give them 50% bonus credits for the damage done to those enemies by friendly units

- When the Karma-Circle is overlapping the borderzone of a friendly base/cap area that is contested REDUCE the repair-bill for the direct/indirect damage received from

  enemy Units on that cap (indirect meaning spotting damage) by HALF, and DOUBLE the credit income for the damage done to the enemy units on that cap

  

 

Battleships:

- REWARD them when they support the Cruisers and  DD's on cap. Give them DOUBLE credits when engaging (and sinking) targets that are contesting that base/cap

  when their Karma-Circle is overlapping the border zone (or inside the base/cap). HALF their repair bill when they die in or close to a contested cap (read: when their

  Karma-Circle overlaps the "borderzone"), or suffer damage supporting the capture of that contested base/cap.

- REWARD them when they support DD's/Cruisers who are spotting enemy units taking a friendly cap by DOUBLING the credit bonus when engaging the spotted units

  and give a 25% bonus to credits for engaging spotted enemy targets wich are engaged by the spotting friendly. Take away this bonus when the spotted target is more

  than 80% of the fire-distance away (unless the spotted target is the only target vissible on the map).

- When the Karma-Circle is overlapping the base/cap area that is contested REDUCE the repair-bill for the direct/indirect damage received from enemy Units on that

  base/cap (indirect meaning spotting damage) by HALF, and DOUBLE the credit income for the damage done to the enemy units on that cap

 

Carriers:

- REWARD them when they are using their aircraft to spot enemy ships that are contesting a cap. Give them a XP bonus of 50% for the spotting-damage dealt to enemy

  ships for spotting with fighters and empty dive-bombers/torpedo-bombers, and a 25% XP-bonus to spotting damage for spotting with dive-bombers/torpedo-bombers

  wich still have their ordinance (spotting bonus does not stack). 

- REWARD them by giving +50% credits reward for damage done to spotted targets (this bonus stacks when spotting in multiple locations), up to a max spotting bonus of

  100% with a single extra credit-bonus added when the spotting is done on contested base/caps

- Provide carriers with a bonus boost of 15% to AA cover (call it "Co-ordinated AA Cover" or something like that) when their Karma-Circle is overlapping that of a friendly

  unit. How ever, this bonus will be taken away if the supporting unit has no Karma-Circle cover on other friendly ships other than the CV and that friendly unit will suffer a

  negative AA bonus of 15%

- REWARD them with DOUBLE credits to damage done when engaging targets who are contesting a cap or friendly base

 

On a final note, the credit rewards need to be increased to the point where it's also viable for people WITHOUT a premium account to be able to play in a tier 8, 9 or 10 game, without first having to grind tier 6 for 3 houres to financialy compensate for the single game in tier 10.

[RonWhisper]

Oh, when it comes to spotting. Grant ALL people who are spotting a certain target a spotting bonus. Don't just give this to one person and leave the rest of the people staring at a facepalm.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

WOULD WG STAFF CARE TO COMMENT ON THE FOLLOWING:

 

Post #287 in thread http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/62286-512-changes/page__st__280#topmost

 

"A potentially interesting point by WellDone:

 

Source: http://forum.worldof...номика/#topmost

 

This iteration of public test contains no changes to the economy. Please stop panicking till you have a reason to. I appologize for not informing the players about the absence of changes regarding the economy."

[DeadMen_TellNoTales]

Page with Patch notes has been updated:

 

"We have encountered a technical issue with the planned Public Test changes to the in-game economy. The fix for this will be applied on 23 September. We apologise for any inconvenience."