Gearing & Fletcher getting nerfed aswell ? General balancing questions.

[br1zz]

Khabarovsk & Udaloy getting nerfed in both Range & Rate of fire, even when i never saw them overperforming in comparison to the T9&10 us dds. they have both different strenghts and weaknesses, yet the russian dds get nerfed for unknown reasons.

 

stats wise the russians are good, but thats mostly because they have a small but competent playerbase. if they get nerfed, expect these players to switch to us dds, which will result in a rising skill level among these dds, which in turn will result in "overperforming us dds". expect the us dds to get nerfed then aswell because players know how to play these. i dont know what wg is thinking....

 

maybe a wg mod can shed some light on this issue pls, why ru dds are getting nerfed ?

and why are ships like the montana who gets easily outplayed by yamato AND the großer kurfürst not getting buffed ? yamato and g. kurfürst overperforming clearly, but no sign of balancing here..

 

 

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

i m sure BB whine that khaba burn them , in other way gearing also do nice , not sure why they not nerfed fletcher

[mzteuszz456]

br1zz, on 20 September 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

 russian dds get nerfed for unknown reasons.

Welcome in WG world.

 these destroyers cause too much frustration to play against as it requires extremely high skill to hit them

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hummus]

No worries OP, they high tier US DD's have a large and incompetent player base, so your few Russian DD players will not make a noticeable impact.

Come try them out and tell me how you like the 11 sec flight time on shells at 13 Km range ..... 

 

Don't get me wrong, the Fletcher is damn good at T9, but what I heard and saw from the Khaba was that is clearly overpowered.... a bit like the Kiev at 7. The average win rates and damage done show this as well, it is over-performing and annoying the hell out of people with it's impunity and high DPM at long range.

[LilJumpa]

I can't tell if you actually played these ships because accounts hidden.

 

But Udaloi/Khaba compared to Fletcher/Gearing are 2 totally different playstyles and the nerf to Khaba is actually needed and, from what I have read , not really that drastic

 

5.0 s reload (from 4.6s) means what with all gun upgrades you still have a reload of ~3.9s (from 3.64 s)

The range nerf takes you from 15.6 km to 13.2 km main gun range for the Khaba.

 

Both things can be dealt with as a Khaba player and atm it is actually ridiciously easy to sail around at 15km with 43-45kn and just pummel everything in sight with Stalinium. All you need is a spotter.

 

Fletcher/Gearing are cap contesters and are deadly with their guns at close range (<10km) and totally useless at longer ranges. For them to reach the same damage numbers as the Khaba you need multiple Torpedohits in a game. But that is not their main role anyway. They have all the tools to cap and spot. No need for nerfs here.

 

 

 

[Nechrom]

stats wise the russians are good, but thats mostly because they have a small but competent playerbase.

 

This has and will always be a completely useless statement in balance discussions. Unless you have any facts that proves this, it's pointless to ever bring something like this up, especially when it comes to good ships.

I could see a reason why bad ships would only keep their hardcore fanbase, but good ships instead have the tendency to attract the FotM players and people who are looking for something to compensate for their underwhelming abilities.

[Shagulon]

stats wise the russians are good, but thats mostly because they have a small but competent playerbase. if they get nerfed, expect these players to switch to us dds, which will result in a rising skill level among these dds, which in turn will result in "overperforming us dds". expect the us dds to get nerfed then aswell because players know how to play these. i dont know what wg is thinking....

 

 

 

you can put as many half truth assumptions as you like into your OP, but stats don't really lie. The khaba is the highest performing T10 DD and has a WR of notably higher and an average damage 25% higher than the other DDs. The Shima was nerfed when it over-performed, now the Khaba is. The only one that actually hasn't over-performed are the US DDs. WG balances from stats.

[Helgey]

1. Regarding russian DD's Nerf, they are the least stealty and least manouverable dd's in game visibility 6,1 versus 3,1 and 3 sec's., and the torpedos are the worst in game: 

Khabarowsk have 2 choices :  Range/speed/dmg 8/56/15100 or 6/53/19500 (suicide mode) 2X5 tubes

Shimakaze have 3 choices: Range/speed/dmg 20/62/20967 or 12/67/23767 or 8/76/21367  3X5 tubes

Gearing have 1 option only : range/spd/dmg 16,5/66/17900 2X5 tubes

So quite simply russian DD's got the stick on torpedoes with 8,7 base detectability versus shimmis and gearings7,6 km.

Regarding guns the following is on clean ship: Turrets X Barrels/reload/range/traverse/damage/dispersion

Khabby: 4x2/4,1/13/10,3/1600-2600/105

Shimmy: 3x2/7/9,8/25,2/2100-2200/89

Gearing: 3x2/3/11,1/7,2/1800-2100/89

I recon the reason that the Khabby is doing well and thet BB drivers hate it is that the Kabby have to be run very agressivly compared to the more laid back style on the shimmy and gearing can choose between the two playstyles. 

2. BB's frontal armour nerf: hm.....  is this a joke? i citadelled  Yamato and G. Kurfurst with a Bismark whats the problem, and im an average Joe player with win/loss ratio of about 50%, 

Recon the next to be hit by nerfbat is cruisers using he to burn down BB's

[LilJumpa]

1. Regarding russian DD's Nerf, they are the least stealty and least manouverable dd's in game visibility 6,1 versus 3,1 and 3 sec's., and the torpedos are the worst in game: 
Khabarowsk have 2 choices :  Range/speed/dmg 8/56/15100 or 6/53/19500 (suicide mode) 2X5 tubes
Shimakaze have 3 choices: Range/speed/dmg 20/62/20967 or 12/67/23767 or 8/76/21367  3X5 tubes
Gearing have 1 option only : range/spd/dmg 16,5/66/17900 2X5 tubes
So quite simply russian DD's got the stick on torpedoes with 8,7 base detectability versus shimmis and gearings7,6 km.
Regarding guns the following is on clean ship: Turrets X Barrels/reload/range/traverse/damage/dispersion
Khabby: 4x2/4,1/13/10,3/1600-2600/105
Shimmy: 3x2/7/9,8/25,2/2100-2200/89
Gearing: 3x2/3/11,1/7,2/1800-2100/89
I recon the reason that the Khabby is doing well and thet BB drivers hate it is that the Kabby have to be run very agressivly compared to the more laid back style on the shimmy and gearing can choose between the two playstyles. 
 

 

That comparison of base numbers says nothing. Three different ships, three totally different playstyles and three totally different roles/main damage sources.

While the Torps on the Khaba are the secondary armament for her, they are the main damage source for the Shima.

For the guns you have to compare turret traverse, shell values (V0, Krupp), range and not the numbers you wrote down.

 

Some things only become obvious when you play the ships:

For example if you compare Fletcher to Gearing: The double turrets on the Gearing are so much better than the single turrets of the Fletcher in a close combat fight. You can go bow on into that fight and have 4 barrels blazing, while the Fletcher has to angle and even go broadside to bring the same amount of firepower. On the other hand, the Gearing feels a lot more sluggish and is slower than the Fletcher so fighting Cruisers is a little tougher in her.

[Nechrom]

 

you can put as many half truth assumptions as you like into your OP, but stats don't really lie. The khaba is the highest performing T10 DD and has a WR of notably higher and an average damage 25% higher than the other DDs. The Shima was nerfed when it over-performed, now the Khaba is. The only one that actually hasn't over-performed are the US DDs. WG balances from stats.

 

Except it never did. But BBs complained about "torpedo soup", the illusion of power. So WG nerfed the Shima and Kagero despite their already underperforming status, without providing any kind of compensation for what they lost.

[br1zz]

i have the khaba myself, and its nowhere near overpowered as poeple want you to believe. if its so overpowered, why isnt every dd in a t8+ game a russian dd ?

 

i dare you to play the khaba yourself and see how it goes. she is big, she is clunky, she has a bad turning radius. her top speed doesnt matter at all when you are constantly evading shots in a big destroyer. as soon as anything hits you, your modules break. and as soon as you get near a us dd, your screwed.

 

bbs get burned down by t8+ cruisers more often. not long until these gets nerfed aswell.

[LilJumpa]

I have played all 3 lines to T10  and my stats are accessible unlike yours.

[br1zz]

i generally dont care if anyone can see my stats, but when i saw xvm for wows i turned them private. im not supporting a tool that promotes toxicity, and i dont know if xvm still works.

[oosel]

I can't tell if you actually played these ships because accounts hidden.

 

But Udaloi/Khaba compared to Fletcher/Gearing are 2 totally different playstyles and the nerf to Khaba is actually needed and, from what I have read , not really that drastic

 

5.0 s reload (from 4.6s) means what with all gun upgrades you still have a reload of ~3.9s (from 3.64 s)

The range nerf takes you from 15.6 km to 13.2 km main gun range for the Khaba.

 

Both things can be dealt with as a Khaba player and atm it is actually ridiciously easy to sail around at 15km with 43-45kn and just pummel everything in sight with Stalinium. All you need is a spotter.

 

Fletcher/Gearing are cap contesters and are deadly with their guns at close range (<10km) and totally useless at longer ranges. For them to reach the same damage numbers as the Khaba you need multiple Torpedohits in a game. But that is not their main role anyway. They have all the tools to cap and spot. No need for nerfs here.

 

 

 

 

finally a thorough explanation from someone who isnt biased and the last part is spot on although from my gearing point of view im only in the cap to try and fend off khabas that do try to cap

[LilJumpa]

i generally dont care if anyone can see my stats, but when i saw xvm for wows i turned them private. im not supporting a tool that promotes toxicity, and i dont know if xvm still works.

 

You started a balance discussion. Just makes it easier to see at what level we are talking here and how expirienced the counterpart is.

Arguing with someone who only knows the ships as opponents is pointless.

[br1zz]

@LilJumpa as i said i have the khaba and udaloy myself. i know how hard it is to play her. she can be rewarding, but small errors will punish you hard.

yes LilJumpas explanation is indeed well formed. and as you say yourself, us dds are cap contesters, they fill a useful destroyer role.

 

but dont forget that ru dds are not really destroyers, they are more like superlight cruisers. so you cant balance them versus other destroyers 1:1

it doesnt make much sense to compare them with other destroyers. its like saying the zao overperforms compared to the gearing.

 

 

[ilhilh]

IMHO khaba is nerfed just because of BB players tears when they was burned to death and cannot do crapbecause they don't have skill in aiming at ships they cannot see.

 

If you want to make a point try and steer clear of petulant statements like that.

 

p.s. added on a bit to really show how idiotic your statement was.

[IceyJones]

khaba nerf is definitely needed!

at the range she is normally "operating" this ship is nearly unhittable with its speed. only SLIGHT course changes result in huge deviations from the former course, thus making salvos miss.

even fast shells and flat trajectories like the hindenburg guns have problems hitting this ship above 13-14 km.

so ask des moines players......if a khaba is above 10km, its nearly pointless to shoot it.

 

in comparison to all other DDs, the khaba is only sinkable with random torps. it is suicide to go into a gun-fight. the gearing with its parachute-shells is barely able to hit it (you have to zoom out to get the right lead) and shima is toast in 20 seconds against a khaba. on top its fact, that hte khaba takes very little HE damage! and even AP bounces regularly.

 

so i appreciate the nerf in range. it will still be enough!

but others get a slightly better chance to defend themselves from this broken 3k-5k AP salvos and HE-firestarting shells of the khaba

hell.....the streamer raskeria DETONATED a yamato with AP shells of a khaba from 14 km!

 

not OP....nooooooooo

[mtm78]

 

you can put as many half truth assumptions as you like into your OP, but stats don't really lie. The khaba is the highest performing T10 DD and has a WR of notably higher and an average damage 25% higher than the other DDs. The Shima was nerfed when it over-performed, now the Khaba is. The only one that actually hasn't over-performed are the US DDs. WG balances from stats.

 

Stop using the high damage as a measure of overperforming, Khaba deals damage, that is it's job, it's not good at contesting caps like other DD's so it deals damage. Higher average dmg is fine with me. The higher WR Khaba has was because of divisions .... I made a post on this last week with screenshots showing that if you select weekly stats from Kharb and you change between 'solo' and 'all pvp' you loose a BIG chunk of wr, and when played solo Kharb was only getting 1.4% higher wr compared with the Gearing for instance. 

 

And it's a matter of perspective if USN DD's over perform. From my IJN DDs then hell yes they overperform. 

[aboomination]

Khebab is getting nerfed because BBabies feel much squishier at higher tiers and blame it on the one dmg source that is the most consistent. Range nerf is ok, ROF nerf is bs.

[br1zz]

btw i tried invisfiring with the khaba, its not viable in most cases, most of of the time you get spotted anyway

[br1zz]

khaba nerf is definitely needed!

at the range she is normally "operating" this ship is nearly unhittable with its speed. only SLIGHT course changes result in huge deviations from the former course, thus making salvos miss.

even fast shells and flat trajectories like the hindenburg guns have problems hitting this ship above 13-14 km.

so ask des moines players......if a khaba is above 10km, its nearly pointless to shoot it.

 

in comparison to all other DDs, the khaba is only sinkable with random torps. it is suicide to go into a gun-fight. the gearing with its parachute-shells is barely able to hit it (you have to zoom out to get the right lead) and shima is toast in 20 seconds against a khaba. on top its fact, that hte khaba takes very little HE damage! and even AP bounces regularly.

 

so i appreciate the nerf in range. it will still be enough!

but others get a slightly better chance to defend themselves from this broken 3k-5k AP salvos and HE-firestarting shells of the khaba

 

you never played the khaba yourself, how can you judge it ?

[viceadmiral123]

Kiev is even more OP because of MM, but fixing t9-t10 battles is priority.

[aboomination]

Kiev is even more OP because of MM, but fixing t9-t10 battles is priority.

 

Really, do you want her to get nerfed again? I never had any problems with opposing Kievs (apart from ranked season 1(?) or 2 (?) I guess, after which she got nerfed).

[IceyJones]

not OP:

[edited]

 

 

and:

 

you never played the khaba yourself, how can you judge it ?

 

 

i FIGHT her! i have eyes!