5.12 changes

[Xevious_Red]

 

Maybe they are opening up slot 6 early for tier 7 cruisers as a bonus?

 

It's possible. If they have full access (I. E. Concealment + TAS) then it's certainly a buff to tier 7 cruisers. If they only have the rudder thing then it will be odd, but a buff.

 

I still suspect it will be in the same slot as the existing rudder shift/propulsion equipment, because as you say it's unlikely people would drop concealment for it (I wouldnt)

[Vanhal]

 

 

You seem to forget, that the enemy has the same problem you're crying about here. So instead of shedding your tears over your lost ability to ignore him, how about you say hello to shooting him instead? You will simply have to play smarter than you used to. If you think you're gonna fare better by sniping from the map border you're in for an unpleasant surprise...

 

Could you plese show up on the other occasions and say that when other classes players are also whining about their nerfs? Because you aren't wrong.

 

What is wrong in this change is that it is completely counterproductive to the announced reason and desired result.

 

 

Every T7 BB has 25mm already and it has the same effect vs same or higher Tier.

Problem? Not really in my Opinion. Yamato loses, all other BBs win.

 

Then it would be better to buff the same armor that is getting nerfed to the point Yamato can't overmatch. So that would only affect this one ship. But it would make too much sense i guess.

 

 

Because that is not the (main) issue? If it were, the test with lower repair costs would have seen more aggressive BB play, and there wasn't. 

 

It might be a part, but then again don't forget why, WG wants to keep the game healthy and it doesn't work if tier X would be profitable or even breaking even for anything then the top players of the server. There might be changes coming to economy, WG indicated it did want to do something, but I wouldn't count on anything major. 

 

 

Well, EU havent revealed anything, but NA dev Boyarsky mentioned that repair cost reduction did result in better gameplay on high tiers.

 

And so, as i understand this new economy will be another nerf, with the repair cost reduction that was sorely needed (no, not to the point of tier 10 becoming "profitable", just not so completely punishing) completely abandoned in favor of yet more punishing?

 

Wtf is this, gulag? No rewards for anything, only punishments?

 

 

I am getting this right? Together this means less rewards for pure damage, because you cannot add new criteria for rewards, while keeping the total rewards constant. So a good player will get the same average rewards, a smaller share of which would be due to damage. A bad player will come worse off simply because whatever small damage he does is awarded less than before. Do you like it? I am not sure I do. Sounds like a hidden profitability nerf, somethings that I expected since long.

 

I completely don't like it. Punishing bad players and not rewarding good ones. Good move, yeah.

 

 

I am expecting to keep roughly the same rewards yes, but I'm counting the changes as MAJOR for the BBabies wanking off in the back,.. which was the whole point. 

 

You got rabies or what? Whit that attitude you are testing the game? Nice feedback you must give...

[Nechrom]

It's possible. If they have full access (I. E. Concealment + TAS) then it's certainly a buff to tier 7 cruisers. If they only have the rudder thing then it will be odd, but a buff.

 

I still suspect it will be in the same slot as the existing rudder shift/propulsion equipment, because as you say it's unlikely people would drop concealment for it (I wouldnt)

 

Thinking about it I don't even know what they mean by slot 6. The 6th slot in the row? The 6th slot you unlock as you go up the tiers?

No matter how you turn it, there's no way that would mean the slot with the normal Steering Gears 2 upgrade.

If it occupies the "concealment slot", then yay for tier 7 CA I guess. If it occupies the 6th slot you get (for advanced armament upgrades) then yay for tier 7 and 8 CA.

[SBS]

I love how everybody is complaining before the test server is even up and running. Can we at least give it a shot before we cast jugdement?

 

I mean, speculating is all well and good, but immediatly calling it a bad decision is stupid as we haven't even tried it yet.

 

I mean, I am not sure if the decreased bow armor will actually prevent anything as people will allways stay at range anyway becuase they got the range and people fear damage.

 

But really, at the end of the day it is the damage current way that damage/armor works that make BB not show broadsides to fire all guns like they would in real life.

I doubt the change to bow armor will make much of a difference, but we will see.

 

Personally I think that the Kahaba needs the nerf, but this is coming from someone who has only fought against one.

 

I can see the idea with the cruiser mod, properly to make it easier for them to evade and thus avoid citadels, but if it will have the desired effect I am not sure.

Will ofcourse also make it easier to avoid torps and thus might give them more of a motivation to go hunt DD, but I personally think that torps were allready nerfed enough 

 

Then again, as I said all of this is just speculation. We will see on the PTS.

[aquiles7389]

"The armour thickness of regular Tier VIII-X battleships has been decreased. This change will allow penetration of the affected ships in the forward section with large-calibre AP shells."

 

Well....time to stop being agressive and start to fire from the background and be passive...

GG WG

[Xevious_Red]

I suspect there's a typo in there. Otherwise that's a bit too large to not bother putting in the notes - tier 7 or possibly 8 cruiser getting access to slots they previously didn't have? Which is why I suspect they meant 5th slot (the 1m one).

 

But I'm prepared to be bemused by what they actually do

[SBS]

I suspect there's a typo in there. Otherwise that's a bit too large to not bother putting in the notes - tier 7 or possibly 8 cruiser getting access to slots they previously didn't have? Which is why I suspect they meant 5th slot (the 1m one).

 

But I'm prepared to be bemused by what they actually do

 

Well, they could just make the 6th slot available with only that upgrade. Nothing says that opening the slot allso gives access to everything else.

[jure_eruj]

I am so happy that my bismarck is getting reduced armor. I have a secondaries build and I was always trying to get close enough to enemy to put secondaries to good use, relying that my armour will protect me for a reasonable time.

 

With armour nerf, I am getting back and I will snipe from a distance, probably causing half less damage than now, but I will live longer and enjoy the stream of tears from snowflakes.

 

Well done, wargaming, you really can piss all the players with your idiotic "balances".

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

I play BB's from time to time, i'm certainly no expert, but from my experiences with them i think nerfing them is not needed, i thought they balanced the armour in BB's quite nicely, not too weak, not too strong. Nerfing them will probably change the game causing an influx of long range sniping, maybe WG want this, i don't really know

[Panzerblitz]

Sniping BB's is what the change is aimed at fixing, but I can't point that out without having rabies. Weak man, weak 

 

Are we even playing the same game ?

 

Wargaming wants to fix "sniping BBs" by making them MORE vulnerable ?

 

We are talking about that majority of BB players who turn away at the first sign of danger, hugging the map borders all game long and running scared at the first scratch to their paint.

 

Here's what's gonna happen:

 

BB players will be even more scared and reluctant to get into each others range. While at the same time being even more eager to shoot at stuff which is less dangerous, namely cruisers.

[LilJumpa]

 

Then it would be better to buff the same armor that is getting nerfed to the point Yamato can't overmatch. So that would only affect this one ship. But it would make too much sense i guess.

 

 

Yeah makes total sense. If you want to reduce the bow on playstyle, just buff everyones bow so they cannot damage eachother. Excellent suggestion. 

[KPtja]

Well....time to stop being agressive and start to fire from the background and be passive...

GG WG

 

And doing this you will gain very little exp (I hope). As wargaming put it: "However, players whose behaviour is mostly "one-dimensional" (for example, battleship players that stay away from the heat of battle and try to only cause damage to the enemy, rather than lead the attack; or destroyer players that focus on capturing key areas but do not perform any reconnaissance) will be less generously rewarded."

 

jure_eruj, on 20 September 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

With armour nerf, I am getting back and I will snipe from a distance, probably causing half less damage than now, but I will live longer and enjoy the stream of tears from snowflakes.

 

 I guess the same (above) goes for you.

 

 

[jure_eruj]

You

 

And doing this you will gain very little exp (I hope). As wargaming put it: "However, players whose behaviour is mostly "one-dimensional" (for example, battleship players that stay away from the heat of battle and try to only cause damage to the enemy, rather than lead the attack; or destroyer players that focus on capturing key areas but do not perform any reconnaissance) will be less generously rewarded."

 

 

 I guess the same (above) goes for you.

 

 

 

Yes, it does. As I see the idiotic moves from our beloved Russians, i have absolutely no desire to play anything above T8, and I have a shitload of ships in T5-T8 range, so no need for XP right now.

[Panzerblitz]

 

.... rather than lead the attack; or destroyer players that focus on capturing key areas but do not perform any reconnaissance) will be less generously rewarded."

 

 

 

 

 

This is the perfect example for the completely messed up Meta that the game is suffering from.

 

BBs have the armor and HP to lead, but without a screen they either get torped or burned down in no time. DDs should be BB screens, but have double duty as cappers and if you play something like the Khaba or Udaloi you usually get bigger scores by going hunting. And if you play mighty Nippon you want to stealth torp. Which leaves us with US DDs and their horrible high-angle guns. 

 

And lastly we have cruisers: in a cruiser you want to be nowhere near a leading BB, cause you will be spotted and sunk.

 

Back to step 1 and the problem that unsupported BBs cannot lead the attack on their own, while other classes usually get better scores and a longer lifetime by NOT escorting BBs. The whole element of mutual, inter-class support is simply not working as it should.

 

My idea: Escorting XP.

 

If a DD or Cruiser stays within a certain range of a BB you get extra points for damaging ships which are shooting the BB, as well as more xp for anything damaged by the BB while you are within the escort range. Therefore you want your BB to live as long as possible, but you also want them to get into low-dispersion range to do meaningful damage. At the same time the BB player benefits from active support and protection.

[Gatt]

Dunkerque players will be happy with this bow armor nerf

 

[LilJumpa]

 

This is the perfect example for the completely messed up Meta that the game is suffering from.

 

BBs have the armor and HP to lead, but without a screen they either get torped or burned down in no time. DDs should be BB screens, but have double duty as cappers and if you play something like the Khaba or Udaloi you usually get bigger scores by going hunting. And if you play mighty Nippon you want to stealth torp. Which leaves us with US DDs and their horrible high-angle guns. 

 

And lastly we have cruisers: in a cruiser you want to be nowhere near a leading BB, cause you will be spotted and sunk.

 

Back to step 1 and the problem that unsupported BBs cannot lead the attack on their own, while other classes usually get better scores and a longer lifetime by NOT escorting BBs. The whole element of mutual, inter-class support is simply not working as it should.

 

My idea: Escorting XP.

 

If a DD or Cruiser stays within a certain range of a BB you get extra points for damaging ships which are shooting the BB, as well as more xp for anything damaged by the BB while you are within the escort range. Therefore you want your BB to live as long as possible, but you also want them to get into low-dispersion range to do meaningful damage. At the same time the BB player benefits from active support and protection.

 

The rewards (credits/xp) are getting more diverse with this patch and are adressing this. Maybe not being perfect but it is a first step. What we know is the type of information they gathered over the last couple of patches and which showed up on the stats page.

 

Screening:

- number of ships spotted

- number of torpedos spotted

- damage done to enemys which you spotted

 

So long range snipers of any kind (and smoke shooters) will have to share some of their damage XP with the ships/planes actually spotting the target.

 

BBs spearheading:

Potential damage done will be a XP/credit source of some kind. 

Again long range snipers which rarely get shot at or targeted by torps and invisible firing ships will get none of that. 

 

Since the total amount of XP will not go up, the sources for XP in the current game will give less now.

 

Dunkerque players will be happy with this bow armor nerf 

 

 

Dunk is not even affected......... way of reading the topic

[Gatt]

Dunk is not even affected......... way of reading the topic

 

Ah OK, thanks.

[chazwozza]

Aye only 8-10 also someone stated regular BBs so does the nerf effect prem BBs?

[RUSSIANBlAS]

The high tier BB nerf only makes German BB stronger and maybe the Yam too.

 

The Germans suffer less from having no invincible front as the rest of their armour is so good. 

 

Front armour was a key strength to the Iowa  Izumo just got another level added to their joke status.

 

 

Why not add the xp revamp first then see if the bow nerf is needed??

[Zombie_Wizard]

I don't understand why the bow armor nerf is considered a general BB nerf. It might be a nerf to Bismarck, but I still hope they make an exception for her (getting front-penned whithout beeing able to do de same in return would not be fun). Overall BBs ar not getting weaker against any other class, they're just more vulnerable to other BBs. Someone pens you in the face? So what? Pen him right back! In a 1v1 whoever is better at maneuvering and aming will come out on top, as it should be.

I mean, at lower tiers bow overmatch is already a thing, and noone is having much trouble with that. People are not standing still or reversing (except Dunkerques, but you can't blame them^^),

So I guess the big problem are the repair costs. Bow in is a thing, because it's the only way to not eat massive amounts of damage when further forward. Being penned from the front would not be such a huge problem if one didn't have to pay obscene amounts of silver for every percent of damage you take.     

[VC381]

Will people stop calling it a nerf to BB armour? There is no armour on the outside of the bow of a BB, this is just structural steel. The idea that this section could bounce a shell is laughable, so stop crying about the removal of a mechanic that should never have existed in the first place. All the BBs still have a huge great plate of armour closing the front of their citadel, which is as thick as the belt if not thicker. You just need to learn to "angle" that part as well, so the optimum will be approaching at 45 degrees.

 

The game is meant to capture the feel of naval battles. These are dynamic, everyone always moving. The stop-reverse thing BBs do is one of the most immersion-breaking elements of the game.

 

And so what if BBs use their range a bit more? To be honest as a cruiser player I welcome this. The recent German BB spam proved to me that what kills cruiser gameplay is BBs being able to push without risk. A camping/sniping BB is no threat to a cruiser with half a brain because you can dodge anything at long range. It can actually create space in the centre of the battlefield for cruisers to push and support DDs at caps.

 

It will hopefully also force BB players to stay on the move and learn to find an optimum range to engage, comprising between accuracy and safety. I know most won't but that's true for all classes. I think it will add some more skill requirements to BB play.

 

Overall, big thumbs up this change!

[Spellfire40]

Lowering the armor thickness of destroyers is not a nerf. Yes, they will take more damage from light guns, but they will also get more overpenetrations and less regular penetrations from AP.

And who fight DDs? Other DDs and Ca/CL? This is a direct nerf to their survivability.

[aquiles7389]

 

And doing this you will gain very little exp (I hope). As wargaming put it: "However, players whose behaviour is mostly "one-dimensional" (for example, battleship players that stay away from the heat of battle and try to only cause damage to the enemy, rather than lead the attack; or destroyer players that focus on capturing key areas but do not perform any reconnaissance) will be less generously rewarded."

 

 

 I guess the same (above) goes for you.

 

 

 

Gain a little amount of xp or lose credits because my ships are more fragile (and thus, easier to sink)....

I take the little amount of XP thank you.

[anonym_yABmLAWoZ6QF]

Can I say I like the change to the mini-map. 

 

[mtm78]

 

Gain a little amount of xp or lose credits because my ships are more fragile (and thus, easier to sink)....

I take the little amount of XP thank you.

 

Problem identified, it's not the mechanics it's the players. 

 

BB survivability is higher then ALL other classes ( except perhaps CV's.. not sure ) but the first thing BB player says when hearing about having to do be actually useful for their team: I might sink.

 

Sorry for picking you out here, if it was anyone else though I would have said the same it's not personal.