USA top tier DD's - OP ?

[MurderousKitten]

Yes , i know every 5th post is about some ship being op !

But still , cut me min here.
Benson - det. range 7.4 km, with skill upgrades and camo wich makes it  23 % better you get 5.7km , torps are 9.2 km ( ok they are slow- 55 , but you understand what i mean ) 

The guns - well , we all agree that guns ar USA DD's strong point .

Fletcher - det. range the same ( 7.4 km, with skill upgrades and camo wich makes it  23 % better you get 5.7km) , torps are good - 19k dmg , 10.5 km range , 66 speed ( 8.6 range and 71 speed with torp skill ) against Kagero's 21k dmg ,8 km range and 76 speed . 
And i dont need to start myself about guns
Gearing - det. range 7.6 with skill upgrades and camo wich makes it  23 % better you get 5.9km , torps - 18k dmg , 16.5 km range , 66 speed ( 13km range and 71 speed with torp skill ) agains Shimekaze's  24k dmg , 12km range and 66 speed ( 9.6km range and 71 speed with torp skill ) . And Shimekaze gets THE SAME det. range that Gearing .
And you know the drill about the guns

So - problem is in the fact , that from tier 8 and up , every thing IJN DD's can do with torps , USA DD's are ALMOST as good , and if it comes to gun fight between them , the victor is 95 % USA DD .

Call me picky , but this is not balanced .
IJN DD's have their specific place,  but in reality it is made useless , because you can easlly set up USA DD in a manner , that it will kill any DD's in close range and still can effectivly torp capital ships outside det. range .

[GenerallKrizmuz]

no, IJN are UP

[Msiiek]

I don't think they are op. They are maybe just stronger, not op.

[Elenortirion]

depends on what you are taking as a baseline for "balanced"

 

if you take current situation of IJN DDs as what should "balanced" look like then USN DDs are OP

 

but then question is if it is not the case of actually IJN DDs being recently overnerfed and by thus being UP

[Nechrom]

no, IJN are UP

 

^ This.

 

Only the top tier RU DDs could be considered OP.

[ColonelPete]

No, not really.

They are versatile, but not that strong.

[Sub_Eleven]

IJN destroyers need some love at higher tiers, we just have to wait how the sub branch reshuffle will turn out (Shima seems fine though, she has pretty nice guns. Just a lot of Shima skippers ignore them for some odd reason).

 

Haven't played the russian high tiers yet but they seem to be doing rather well. They are ships I'd rather avoid in my USN gunboats if I have the option. Going up against a Udaloi or a Kabab in a Benson or Fletcher (my most played destroyers) ends badly most of the times. Gearing does much, much better due to it's higher rate of fire and extra gun, but often times its easyer to keep them spotted then to trade in a large portion of your health for a kill secure.

 

Yes, USN high tier dd's are good and fun to play, but they are not OP. Hitting anything other then a battleboat over 10km range with their orbital moon arcs becomes quite the challenge.

 

 

[Nechrom]

IJN destroyers need some love at higher tiers, we just have to wait how the sub branch reshuffle will turn out (Shima seems fine though, she has pretty nice guns. Just a lot of Shima skippers ignore them for some odd reason).

 

Haven't played the russian high tiers yet but they seem to be doing rather well. They are ships I'd rather avoid in my USN gunboats if I have the option. Going up against a Udaloi or a Kabab in a Benson or Fletcher (my most played destroyers) ends badly most of the times. Gearing does much, much better due to it's higher rate of fire and extra gun, but often times its easyer to keep them spotted then to trade in a large portion of your health for a kill secure.

 

Yes, USN high tier dd's are good and fun to play, but they are not OP. Hitting anything other then a battleboat over 10km range with their orbital moon arcs becomes quite the challenge.

 

The buffed rate of fire on the Shima should help.

But I still can't understand why she has such horrible gun range. Way worse than the previous DD.

[Tungstonid]

IJN destroyers need some love at higher tiers, we just have to wait how the sub branch reshuffle will turn out (Shima seems fine though, she has pretty nice guns. Just a lot of Shima skippers ignore them for some odd reason).

 

In my opinion (got my Shima 2 days ago) the gun handling is a problem. You can choose to make wider turns thus being easier to hit so your guns can follow moving targets especially in DD vs DD fights or when getting the hell out of a danger zone. Or you do sharp turns to dodge but your guns just can't keep up with the movement of your ship. It is the same problem as the Kagero has. Can't remember the Fubuki but I guess it was the same. I installed Main Armement Modification 2 (+ Reload, + Turret Traverse) now that it is cheaper and it works better. Unfortunately I have no skill points available and planned to spend on Expert Marksman.

so what use do the best guns have when you have a hard time handling them?

[GenerallKrizmuz]

 

In my opinion (got my Shima 2 days ago) the gun handling is a problem. You can choose to make wider turns thus being easier to hit so your guns can follow moving targets especially in DD vs DD fights or when getting the hell out of a danger zone. Or you do sharp turns to dodge but your guns just can't keep up with the movement of your ship. It is the same problem as the Kagero has. Can't remember the Fubuki but I guess it was the same. I installed Main Armement Modification 2 (+ Reload, + Turret Traverse) now that it is cheaper and it works better. Unfortunately I have no skill points available and planned to spend on Expert Marksman.

so what use do the best guns have when you have a hard time handling them?

waste of skill

take TAE, you're welcome

[KaraMon]

So something is doing good job in the game

 

NERF! NERF ASAP!

 

no one ever thinks that other ships simply are underperforming?

[GhostRiderMax123]

The only thing I would say about the U.S. DD's is that their main guns seem to be belt fed you could say the same for the Russian DD's as well.

[Sub_Eleven]

 

The buffed rate of fire on the Shima should help.

But I still can't understand why she has such horrible gun range. Way worse than the previous DD.

 

Wouldn't it get abused if it could invisifire with DE and her gun arcs though? You can still do it, if you take AFT but you'll lose either CE (not really an option) or DE or SE.

[Nechrom]

 

Wouldn't it get abused if it could invisifire with DE and her gun arcs though? You can still do it, if you take AFT but you'll lose either CE (not really an option) or DE or SE.

 

That would be a good point if the Yugumo didn't have way longer gun range, the same number of guns, the same rate of fire and also lower detection range.

I don't think the buff to torpedo numbers and top speed when moving up to the Shima validates all those nerfs to the guns and detection range.

[AnotherDuck]

Wouldn't it get abused if it could invisifire with DE and her gun arcs though? You can still do it, if you take AFT but you'll lose either CE (not really an option) or DE or SE.

 

Shima is overall the worst performing T10 ship. Something abusable in that ship wouldn't exactly break anything, especially with how invisifire isn't nearly as effective as people make it out to be.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

they not op , but sure they way better then jp

[Darky_007]

So - problem is in the fact , that from tier 8 and up , every thing IJN DD's can do with torps , USA DD's are ALMOST as good , and if it comes to gun fight between them , the victor is 95 % USA DD .

 

 

well lets look

Fubuki (torps 10 km), Benson (9,2) , Tashkent (8,0), 1:0:0 for IJN

Kagero (20 km), Fletcher (10,5 km), Udaloi (8,0 km), 1:0:0 for IJN

Shimakaze (20 km), Gearing (16,5 km), Khabarovsk (10 km),1:0:0 IJN

 

So all top tier DD IJN have BIG advantage in torpedoes

 

let see Concealment

Fubuki (7,0 km), Benson (7,0) , Tashkent (9,4), 1:1:0 for IJN
Kagero (6,8 km), Fletcher (7,4 km), Udaloi (8,6 km), 1:0:0 for IJN
Shimakaze (7,6 km), Gearing (7,6 km), Khabarovsk (10 km),1:1:0 IJN

 

After all I can only say IJN DD are OP against USN and RU.

And for balancing that advantage USN and RU have better guns, case closed.

 

[Tungstonid]

waste of skill

take TAE, you're welcome

 

Maybe you misunderstood me?

I have no points for Expert Marksman. Got Last Stand instead and as soon as I have another 2 points I'll take TAE.

 

 

well lets look

Fubuki (torps 10 km), Benson (9,2) , Tashkent (8,0), 1:0:0 for IJN

Kagero (20 km), Fletcher (10,5 km), Udaloi (8,0 km), 1:0:0 for IJN

Shimakaze (20 km), Gearing (16,5 km), Khabarovsk (10 km),1:0:0 IJN

 

So all top tier DD IJN have BIG advantage in torpedoes

 

let see Concealment

Fubuki (7,0 km), Benson (7,0) , Tashkent (9,4), 1:1:0 for IJN
Kagero (6,8 km), Fletcher (7,4 km), Udaloi (8,6 km), 1:0:0 for IJN
Shimakaze (7,6 km), Gearing (7,6 km), Khabarovsk (10 km),1:1:0 IJN

 

After all I can only say IJN DD are OP against USN and RU.

And for balancing that advantage USN and RU have better guns, case closed.

 

To compare only two values does not really work out. The higher the range of the IJN torps the easier they are are spotted plus the slower they are and therfore easier to avoid. The effective torp range is on par anyway since3 you barely hit anything on ranges > 10 km.

And while the IJN DDs don't have a concealment disadvantage they definitively lack speed on tier 8 and 9 to get away from USN DDs

[Gnomus]

 

well lets look

Fubuki (torps 10 km), Benson (9,2) , Tashkent (8,0), 1:0:0 for IJN

Kagero (20 km), Fletcher (10,5 km), Udaloi (8,0 km), 1:0:0 for IJN

Shimakaze (20 km), Gearing (16,5 km), Khabarovsk (10 km),1:0:0 IJN

 

So all top tier DD IJN have BIG advantage in torpedoes

 

let see Concealment

Fubuki (7,0 km), Benson (7,0) , Tashkent (9,4), 1:1:0 for IJN
Kagero (6,8 km), Fletcher (7,4 km), Udaloi (8,6 km), 1:0:0 for IJN
Shimakaze (7,6 km), Gearing (7,6 km), Khabarovsk (10 km),1:1:0 IJN

 

After all I can only say IJN DD are OP against USN and RU.

And for balancing that advantage USN and RU have better guns, case closed.

 

 

Yeah, those are so massive advantage on torp ranges to have 10km instead of 9,2km (or even 8). That will surely bring victory. Camo advantage is only on Kagero, and even there it will be reduced by camo skill and paint to only few hundred meter, not enough to avoid contact on crossing courses.

 

Meanwhile Japanese DD's are very underwhelmed on gun abilities and both US and USSR DD's will make short work of any JP DD they encounter. Those guns are much more important than few hundred meters of torp range (all top tier DD's can camo torp) or parity or slight advantage on camo (if you do not have enough advantage to avoid contact it doesn't help much).

 

EDIT: And pretty much no-one uses those 20km torps on JP DD's as they are spotted so much earlier than US/USSR torps. After all it's not about range, but about hitting anything with those torps.

[creamgravy]

no, IJN DD players are UP

 

[Nechrom]

well lets look

Fubuki (torps 10 km), Benson (9,2) , Tashkent (8,0), 1:0:0 for IJN

Kagero (20 km), Fletcher (10,5 km), Udaloi (8,0 km), 1:0:0 for IJN

Shimakaze (20 km), Gearing (16,5 km), Khabarovsk (10 km),1:0:0 IJN

 

So all top tier DD IJN have BIG advantage in torpedoes

 

let see Concealment

Fubuki (7,0 km), Benson (7,0) , Tashkent (9,4), 1:1:0 for IJN
Kagero (6,8 km), Fletcher (7,4 km), Udaloi (8,6 km), 1:0:0 for IJN
Shimakaze (7,6 km), Gearing (7,6 km), Khabarovsk (10 km),1:1:0 IJN

 

After all I can only say IJN DD are OP against USN and RU.

And for balancing that advantage USN and RU have better guns, case closed.

 

This is the most intellectually dishonest comparison I've yet to see on this forum, and that's saying something.

I can do this too.

 

Torp detectability:

Fubuki (1.7 km), Benson (1.1 km), Tashkent (1.1 km), 0:1:1 to USN and RU

Kagero (2.5 km), Fletcher (1.4 km), Udaloi (1.1 km), 0:0:1 to RU

Shimakaze (2.5 km), Gearing (1.4 km), Khabarovsk (1.1 km), 0:0:1 to RU

 

Torp speed:

Fubuki (67 knt), Benson (55 knt), Tashkent (55 knt), 1:0:0 to IJN

Kagero (62 knt), Fletcher (66 knt), Udaloi (60 knt), 0:1:0 to USN

Shimakaze (62 knt), Gearing (66 knt), Khabarovsk (56 knt), 0:1:0 to USN

 

Torp reload:

Fubuki (90 sec), Benson (122 sec), Tashkent (70 sec), 0:0:1 to RU

Kagero (120 sec), Fletcher (106 sec), Udaloi (116 sec), 0:1:0 to USN

Shimakaze (150 sec), Gearing (136 sec), Khabarovsk (116 sec), 0:0:1 to RU

[Kenliero]

I personally prefer Fubuki over Benson in random battles, even though Benson is better in knife fights. Torps in Fubu are so much better.

[Nechrom]

I personally prefer Fubuki over Benson in random battles, even though Benson is better in knife fights. Torps in Fubu are so much better.

 

Indeed. But that's also where the IJN DD line stops evolving.

Fubuki is a decent DD at tier 8 because she's basically the same as the two following DDs.

It's like the Kagero and Shima were balanced as if they were also tier 8. For every upgrade over the previous DD they sacrifice something. WG temporarily forgot that ships are supposed to improve overall as they increase in tier.

[GenerallKrizmuz]

 

Indeed. But that's also where the IJN DD line stops evolving.

Fubuki is a decent DD at tier 8 because she's basically the same as the two following DDs.

It's like the Kagero and Shima were balanced as if they were also tier 8. For every upgrade over the previous DD they sacrifice something. WG temporarily forgot that ships are supposed to improve overall as they increase in tier.

The Shima is a nice ship. 15 torps x23k damage are nothing to [edited]with

[AnotherDuck]

I actually use Kagero's 20 km torps on occasion, but only if I also have Torp Acceleration (which brings them down to 16 km), and with the Torpedo Reload Booster. They're not great for hitting stuff (although I did get a 15 km torp kill last Kagero match I played). They are better for area denial or forcing enemies to turn, though. For shorter distances, I find it doesn't actually matter that much. I don't really have a great deal more success with the faster ones.