matchmaking, trying to understand.

[Amon_ITA]

As the title says, this is not a whine thread ( surprise !! )

 

In the past week i've been sick, at home, alone with lot's of free time to play WOWS.

 

So my daily count of battles rose dramatically, and i guess i'm starting to see a trend in matchmaking. I'm not talking about fleet composition ( up tiered / low tiered, quantity of DD's, BB's etc ), but quality of opposition / teammates players.

 

My win rate for the first 3 days was over 60 %. Everything came much more easily than usually. Then after the fourth day anything changed. I struggled to mantain 55 % win rate. Many matches ended too soon for me. It became difficult to find targets. My team was often less coordinated than before, while the enemy looked much more coordinated than before.

 

The substance is that i clearly felt that the matchmacher thought, after the 3rd day, that i was going up with my stats, so it decided that i had to be put against better players.

 

At the end of the sixth day, frustration kicked in and my win rateo went to crap.

 

Do someone of you guys think that my reasoning could be true ? That players are grouped in skill brackets ? And when you go up to the next bracket the matchmacker changes the quality of your opposition accordingly ?

 

Not that i think this could be a bad idea, if true.

[ColonelPete]

No.

Variations per day of 5% points are quite normal. I had variations of 40+% points per day´, but my winrate is still climbing.

 

Here my winratings for the last two and half months (scroll down):

http://wows-numbers.com/player/529243319,ColonelPete/

[The_Tyke]

My personal experience goes like this.

 

On my days off (which fall midweek) I do moderately well. I never do REALLY well, I just aint that good. This is between the hours of 8am until about 5pm GMT. Come the evening hours I am totally outclassed. I mean TOTALLY. 

 

Workdays, naturally, it is the evenings I get to play. I get trashed, but I endeavor. So for me it seems that you just get a better class of player at certain times of day. They are mostly at work when I have the best experiences.

[aboomination]

Carry harder 

 

[AgarwaenME]

As the title says, this is not a whine thread ( surprise !! )

 

In the past week i've been sick, at home, alone with lot's of free time to play WOWS.

 

So my daily count of battles rose dramatically, and i guess i'm starting to see a trend in matchmaking. I'm not talking about fleet composition ( up tiered / low tiered, quantity of DD's, BB's etc ), but quality of opposition / teammates players.

 

My win rate for the first 3 days was over 60 %. Everything came much more easily than usually. Then after the fourth day anything changed. I struggled to mantain 55 % win rate. Many matches ended too soon for me. It became difficult to find targets. My team was often less coordinated than before, while the enemy looked much more coordinated than before.

 

The substance is that i clearly felt that the matchmacher thought, after the 3rd day, that i was going up with my stats, so it decided that i had to be put against better players.

 

At the end of the sixth day, frustration kicked in and my win rateo went to crap.

 

Do someone of you guys think that my reasoning could be true ? That players are grouped in skill brackets ? And when you go up to the next bracket the matchmacker changes the quality of your opposition accordingly ?

 

Not that i think this could be a bad idea, if true.

 

With your overall performance you're lucky to have the WR you do. Your issue is that you're confusing early results with how good you really are.

 

What's really been happening is that your early luck fighting other newbies are being deluted as you go into higher tiers, and I'd expect you to drop even more if you don't improve your gameplay.

[Amon_ITA]

No.

Variations per day of 5% points are quite normal. I had variations of 40+% points per day´, but my winrate is still climbing.

 

Here my winratings for the last two and half months (scroll down):

http://wows-numbers.com/player/529243319,ColonelPete/

 

I would be really grateful if you could find a moment to watch my stats on warships today, really.

 

I've used always the same ships, played alwways at the same hours.

 

The graphics for the WTR and Win Rate are really revealing in my opinion.

[Amon_ITA]

Carry harder 

 

 

 

 

With your overall performance you're lucky to have the WR you do. Your issue is that you're confusing early results with how good you really are.

 

What's really been happening is that your early luck fighting other newbies are being deluted as you go into higher tiers, and I'd expect you to drop even more if you don't improve your gameplay.

 

You are reading my stats really wrong. I'm really improving after a terrible start. My sig don't show what were my stats before 195 days ago.

 

But that's not a problem, because i did not made this thread to brag or to whine.

 

 

[aboomination]

I don't read anything into your stats but you read something into yours. And you're doing it wrong, imo. There's no rigged MM, only the climb is real.

 

 

So, keep on climbing or stop whining because of a "bad day". We all have bad days/weeks where the WTR is super-unicum-level and the WR is sub 40%.

That's because you have more influence on your own performance than on the team's performance - especially over a tiny amount of games.

[AgarwaenME]

 

 

You are reading my stats really wrong. I'm really improving after a terrible start. My sig don't show what were my stats before 195 days ago.

 

But that's not a problem, because i did not made this thread to brag or to whine.

 

 

 

There's nothing to "read wrong." You're a player who just about hovers around average, and your WR is evening out to fit that performance.

 

The thing about statistics is that you will see variance within a small subset, so having a bad or a good day is entirely normal, or even a better or worse week or month.

[Amon_ITA]

I don't read anything into your stats but you read something into yours. And you're doing it wrong, imo. There's no rigged MM, only the climb is real.

 

 

So, keep on climbing or stop whining because of a "bad day". We all have bad days/weeks where the WTR is super-unicum-level and the WR is sub 40%.

That's because you have more influence on your own performance than on the team's performance - especially over a tiny amount of games.

 

 

Why do you think i'm whining ?

 

Really, i'm really interested, i've seen many threads in this forum where inquiring OP were labeled as whiners when they really were not.

 

I'm not whining, i would only like to have a decent discussion. I know i'm not a good player, i'm old, i always play after my little son went to sleep, when i'm most tired, i'm overloaded with work, i can't be a good player, i play for fun, that's all.

 

[Amon_ITA]

 

There's nothing to "read wrong." You're a player who just about hovers around average, and your WR is evening out to fit that performance.

 

The thing about statistics is that you will see variance within a small subset, so having a bad or a good day is entirely normal, or even a better or worse week or month.

 

 

The period i was talking about is made of 291 games. Just out of curiosity, is this considered a small subset ? Because the big variation appeared there.

[aboomination]

Really, i'm really interested

 

"Rigged MM" threads have been around since at least mid 2012 when I started playing WoT and if you were interested enough you'd google it 

Also it's always that the MM prevents some player from being gut. Never is it that a streak of good games raises their attention so much that they feel the need to discuss it on the forums.

[ColonelPete]

 

I would be really grateful if you could find a moment to watch my stats on warships today, really.

 

I've used always the same ships, played alwways at the same hours.

 

The graphics for the WTR and Win Rate are really revealing in my opinion.

 

To be honest, I do not see your problem:

http://wows-numbers.com/player/530986894,Amon_ITA/

 

Your average winrate climbed 0.8 % points in the last 10 days.

[Amon_ITA]

My personal experience goes like this.

 

On my days off (which fall midweek) I do moderately well. I never do REALLY well, I just aint that good. This is between the hours of 8am until about 5pm GMT. Come the evening hours I am totally outclassed. I mean TOTALLY.

 

Workdays, naturally, it is the evenings I get to play. I get trashed, but I endeavor. So for me it seems that you just get a better class of player at certain times of day. They are mostly at work when I have the best experiences.

 

 

This could be explained in may opinion by your tireness too ( when you play after work in the everning you are more tired than when you play in the morning in free days ).

 

However in the week / 10 days i observed, i happened to play evenly trough the day, morning, afternoon and everning, till 1pm. I think the quality of the opposition i faced is not dependant by the hour of the day i played, but by something else.

 

 

[aboomination]

Your average winrate climbed 0.8 % points in the last 10 days.

 

According to OP's feelings

 

 

[Amon_ITA]

 

"Rigged MM" threads have been around since at least mid 2012 when I started playing WoT and if you were interested enough you'd google it 

Also it's always that the MM prevents some player from being gut. Never is it that a streak of good games raises their attention so much that they feel the need to discuss it on the forums.

 

 

You continue to think that i'm interested in showing that "the MM prevents me for being good".

 

It's a pity because i've already wrote that i'm not interested in it.

 

Well, i'll carry on somehow.

 

Have a good day, with many wins, if that makes you happy

[aboomination]

You continue to think that i'm interested in showing that "the MM prevents me for being good".

 

 The substance is that i clearly felt that the matchmacher thought, after the 3rd day, that i was going up with my stats, so it decided that i had to be put against better players.

 

So what exactly is your point then?

 

[Amon_ITA]

 

 

To be honest, I do not see your problem:

http://wows-numbers.com/player/530986894,Amon_ITA/

 

Your average winrate climbed 0.8 % points in the last 10 days.

 

 

There is no problem, only curiosity.

 

I checked your link, and i can see why you dont find anything strange. It's the way the graphs are scaled on that site.

 

Click for a moment here if you like:

 

https://eu.warships.today/player/530986894/Amon_ITA

 

Observe the graphs in the progress charts part of the page, hovering the mouse on the curves watch what happens from 2/9.

 

Every thing goes up quite brutally, than change "course" two times. That i find strange.

 

It's a period formed by 291 battles as i said. Are these numbers too low to be considered significative ?

[Amon_ITA]

 

 

 

So what exactly is your point then?

 

 

It's in the OP.

 

I was thinking that maybe, the matchamking could build matches not choosing player in a randomic way, but grouping them together using their stats.

 

Not that mechanism, if existant, could stop me from being better.

 

If you think about ti, and IF this is the way that matchmaker works, it could be a good idea, becuase working this way you could not be put against someone that is too much stronger than you, or too much weaker of course. This could produce more balanced, enjoiable matches, and it is good in my opinion.

 

The "problem" is that, given the not enormous population, and the fact that we have tiers and different classes that all have to be put together without excessive cue times, there can not be so many of these groups. So, when you go up a group, or down, the difference can be felt, if you play enough games in a short period of time.

 

 

[inkedsoulz]

 

 

So what exactly is your point then?

 

 

Cmon... dont be a dck.

OP its just asking the opinion of other people about if the MM may be rigged depending to the players skill.

Thats his point, he just wants other people opinion xd..

[OiMateYouSankMyBattleShp]

 

Cheer up OP, this happens to all of us, I mean I don't really look at w/l ratio, but a losing streak is never fun especially when you died early. Buckle up chin high and just go back to the drawing board and go at it again. 

[Amon_ITA]

 

Cheer up OP, this happens to all of us, I mean I don't really look at w/l ratio, but a losing streak is never fun especially when you died early. Buckle up chin high and just go back to the drawing board and go at it again.

 

 

Thank you

 

I don't live by it and i play this game only because i really really love it, nothing more.

 

I'm past my overly competitive times i can assure you

[Admiral_noodle]

There is no skill based MM.

If you play *even more* and record your W/L you'll see... No pattern. Total chaos. If you are a good player you'll have more W than L as you carry to turn a L into a W *every now and then*. But the pattern will still be random + a bit of your input.

Your brain however, has evolved to recognise patterns in otherwise random data. This is a very useful trait. However in this case it's not useful and your brain is trolling you.

I invite everyone to do the same. Then run it through any correlation function you like - Vs. Tier, vs. Win "run" etc. Anything you want. All you will find is that as games played goes up the correlation to anything goes down.

 

In addition there is no commercial motive in wows to do skill based MM in random. If there was skill based MM it would also make ranked 1) totally pointless and 2) rather embarrassing as a mode

[ColonelPete]

 

 

Every thing goes up quite brutally, than change "course" two times. That i find strange.

 

 

That is NORMAL.

That is why I showed you my winratings graph. There are up and downs, they are lot of it. That is statistic.

 

If you throw a coin and get head multiple times, that does not mean it will continue that way. You will get tails eventually and it is very probable that if you throw the the coin often enough, that you will get sprees of tails.

You winrating is 51% at the moment. That is basicly a coin toss.

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

As the title says, this is not a whine thread ( surprise !! )

 

In the past week i've been sick, at home, alone with lot's of free time to play WOWS.

 

So my daily count of battles rose dramatically, and i guess i'm starting to see a trend in matchmaking. I'm not talking about fleet composition ( up tiered / low tiered, quantity of DD's, BB's etc ), but quality of opposition / teammates players.

 

My win rate for the first 3 days was over 60 %. Everything came much more easily than usually. Then after the fourth day anything changed. I struggled to mantain 55 % win rate. Many matches ended too soon for me. It became difficult to find targets. My team was often less coordinated than before, while the enemy looked much more coordinated than before.

 

The substance is that i clearly felt that the matchmacher thought, after the 3rd day, that i was going up with my stats, so it decided that i had to be put against better players.

 

At the end of the sixth day, frustration kicked in and my win rateo went to crap.

 

Do someone of you guys think that my reasoning could be true ? That players are grouped in skill brackets ? And when you go up to the next bracket the matchmacker changes the quality of your opposition accordingly ?

 

Not that i think this could be a bad idea, if true.

 

You are right Wargaming is using the same matchmaking algorithm as in WoT where if you one day win above a certain threshold you get placed on teams with bad players that have been losing under a certain threshold in order to 'challenge' you and 'help' the bad players but the only result is that the good player will just end up in a losing streak without any chance of influecing the battle outcome. This has not always been the case in WoWS but I believe it was introduced sometime in April or May.

Friday I played 9 games won 8 in CV only, saturday also CV only I won 7 out of 28 battles with 18 defeats in a row while playing on teams with a player composition I am not sure whether they were all bots or simply that inept or stupid.

Also on friday I barely missed any bomb or torpedo drop while saturday the miss rate was about 2-3 times higher even when manual bomb dropping on battleships with perfect aim; to me that more than indicates that the noob bonus from WoT is also in play in WoWS.

There clearly is a pattern of matchmaking manipulation with the intention of making it more difficult for good players to influence the battle outcomes and making it easier for the bad ones by handicapping the good players.

 

Wargaming caters to the inept and stupid players instead of telling them to L2P