FULL CAPTAIN SKILL TREE SUGGESTION POLL

[aleksandrov2]

I have already started a separate topic about captain skill tree where I described which skills in the current version of captain skill tree are pretty useless and should be replaced by something else, but also which skills needs to be rebalanced because they are too good or too weak. I got a great amount of feedback and suggestions from other players, which encouraged me to think about FULL captain skill tree without any empty spaces. Please read this forum threat first to see what I proposed:

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/60661-new-captain-skill-tree-suggestion/

 

As I said there my aim is to give players more CHOICE and put more DIVERSITY in the game! I don't want to have useless skills that nobody takes, but I also don't want so called 'no brainer' skills which currently exist, where there is a skill that all members of specific ship class take. I want a skill tree where there are multiple choices in each row for each class of ships to pick and enable the players to make their own builds (gunboat DDs, torpedoboat DDs, fighter CVs, strike CVs, sniper BBs, brawling BBs.....). But of course don't expect to have a dream build for a specific playstyle. There are not enough skills to give all types of players completely perfect builds!!! So please don't go torpedo DDs fanboys for example in the comments and wine about how you don't have perfect skill in every row. I personally tried to be objective and make as fair captain tree as I could.

 

Another thing a good skill tree should have is that higher tier skills have to be better then lower tier skills (which is not a case right now)!!! Also please don't argue about the stats of the skills. I put them just as the example, therefore the developers are the ones who will have to do a further testings.

The last thing I would like to add is that please make a constructive debate. Don't start with anger and disrespect other members just because they have different opinion!!! If you disagree give us an argument why .

So lets go to my proposal.

 

TIER 1 SKILLS

 

Measuring instruments expertise

This skill would reduce the shell arc of shells fired from main battery guns for 8-15%. This would reduce the travel time of the shells and enable the player to hit the targets more reliable, because this skill would reduce the distance shells have to travel. Importaint thing here is that this skill would not increase the speed of the shells, but only reduce the travel distance. Speed of the shell is one of the main factors which determines penetration, therefore increasing speed of the shell instead of shell arc would mess up the current penetration system and this is the reason why I don't want to change the speed.

I would also make this skill usefull for CVs by reducing the 'no return' zone when manualy droping with torpedo and dive bombers for 10-30%. No return zone is a circle around your manual drop. When planes enter this zone you can not cancel the attack order!!! Please note that this skill would not enable carriers to drop torpedos closer to the ships, the torpedo armament distance would stay the same as it is now!!! It only helps by giving you more time for preparation for the attack and enable you to make more last second adjustments by lowering the distance when your planes get lock in attack order. 

 

EDIT: I think this skill should become tier 2 and skill Expert marksman should become tier 1

 

Basic firing training

I would leave it as it is. 

 

High alert

This skill would reduce reload time of the damage control party by 10-15%. The reason I put in in tier 1 is that I want higher tier skills to be better then lower tier skills. Basics of survivability is very good and pretty much all BBs, CVs, CAs take it in tier 1 right now, therefore I think it should be higher tier. If you combine basics of survivability skill with Damage control system modification 2, you can get -30% reduced flooding recovering time and fire extinguishing time. So in my opinion high alert is just not as good and therefore should be tier 1 instead of basics of survivability.

 

Incoming fire alert

I would leave it as it is, so you get a warning that somebody is shoting you when shell travel time to you is higher that 6 seconds. In last post about captain skills I complained that the skill is too weak, but many people said that they use it on paper CAs and some of them even on DDs, therefore I would leave skill as it is. I placed it to tier 1 just because I believe there are far stronger concealment skills further down. 

 

Aircraft acceleration

This skill would increase aircraft speed for some percentage or by a flat value. For example 2-5% higher speed or 2-5 knots increase. I don't know what the exact value should be, because this would require further testing by the developers. It should be something small (even +2 knots to speed would be OK). We are still at tier 1 and I don't want this skill to be a no brainer for CVs. Give a little boost to speed and force carriers to think hard whether to take aircraft acceleration (faster aircraft) or measuring instruments expertise (more flexibility when you manual torp or bomb other ships).

 

Maneuverability expert

This skill would give you 5-10% rudder shift reduction and 5-20% faster engine acceleration. This skill would work well with the modules Steering gears modification 2 and Propulsion modofication 2. It has the potencial to be a good choice for every class of ships. 

 

TIER 2 SKILLS

 

Expert marksman

I would make this skill to increase turret travers for guns up to 127mm for 2.5 degrees per second and to increase turret traverse for higher caliber guns for 0.7 degrees per second. I want BB drivers to think hard whether to take expert marksmen or basics of survivability. But I also want DDs to think whether take expert marksmen, torpedo armament expertise or last stand. 

 

EDIT: I think this skill should be in tier 1 and skill Measurment instruments expertise should become tier 2

 

Torpedo armament expertise

I would leave it as it is, so -10% reload time for ships torpedos and -20% to torpedo bombers servicing time. 

 

Basics of survivability

I would leave it as it is. I put it in row 2 because I think it is to powerfull for tier 1. 

 

EDITED: later some people pointed out that in tier 2 basics of survivability is still no brainer for BBs. So maybe this captain skill tree needed to be changed in a way that fire prevention would become tier 2 skill and basics of survivability would become tier 3 skill!!!!

 

Stealth master

This skill would give you 300-1000 meters to your proximity detection range. For all that don't know what this is: every ship has a 2 kilometers circle around it and if an enemy ships is inside that 2 km circle you will spot him even if he is in smoke or there is a mountain between you and him. This might seem like a useless skill, but please look at this video where a pro player Flamu is able to destroy his opponents by using sonar on a DD (sonar also increases your proximity detection):

 

 

Please note that this skill would not help you detect the enemy torpedos faster!!!

But to not make this skill usefull only for agressive DDs who want to contest the caps, I would also make it a detection after fire debuff. So basicly when you fire your main battery guns your detection range gets increased by a lot and stays increased for another 20 seconds (even if you meanwhile stopped firing). So this skill could also dicrease time your detection stays increased from 20 to 10-16 seconds. This would make this skill usefull for agressive DDs, stealth CAs and stealth BBs. 

 

Aircraft servicing expert

This skill would reduce servicing time for all aircraft squadrons for -10%. I really like that now CVs will have to decide whether they want -10% servicing time for all aircrafts or take torpedo armament expertise and have -20% servicing time just for torpedo bombers. Again hard decision and more diversity which I like.

 

Last stand

I would leave this skill as it is. All DDs must think hard in this row. Torpedoboat DDs have to chose between torpedo armament expertise and last stand, but also gunboat DDs have to chose between expert marksman and last stand. 

 

TIER 3 SKILLS

 

Reduced dispersion

This skill would reduce the dispersion of the main battery guns by 4-8%. Good choice for all ships with bad dispersion. 

Also to get rid of no brainers for CVs I would make this skill to give 8-20% better dive bombers dispersion. This would make US CVs to think hard about whether they want to buff their dive bombers or they want to take dogfighting expert in this row and buff their fighters. Overall this is a welcome change since many people complain that US dive bombers are way to inaccurate compared with IJN CVs. IJN CVs won't take this skill because their dive bombers dispersion is already very small. 

 

Torpedo acceleration

This skill would give you 5 knots faster torpedoes, but you would lose 10-15% of your torpedo range. As you can see I changed this skill a little bit, because it used to reduce your torpedo range for -20 %. The reason behind this are the news I heard about IJN DDs change. I heard that Wargaming is not happy with long range torpedo spam. They already nerfed 20 km torpedoes, but they apparently are not happy even with 15 km torpedoes. As you probably know the IJN DDs line will get reworked and will split and as far as I know their torpedo range will also get shorter. That doesn't mean IJN DDs will not be able to stealth torp, it just mean that they will all have shorter range torpedoes (max 12 km). So because the default torpedo range will decrease, I think so should the penalty for this skill. 

Also if this thing about IJN DDs is not correct please don't attack me in the comments. I just write what I hear. If IJN DDs will not get changed, then this skill should be left with -20% torpedo range penalty. 

 

Fire prevention

I was not satisfied with this skill in my last post and I am still not. Right now this skill is multiplicative and not additive. So if enemy has 7% chance of fire per shell and hits you, his chance of fire doesn't go down on 0% (if you have fire prevention). Actually his chance of fire is 6.5% (7*(1-0.07)=6.5%). Sollution to make this skill actually usefull is to either make it additive so that it would reduce fire chance for 1-2% per shell or leave it multiplicative but make it to reduce fire chance for 15-30%. Because 7*(1-0.15)=6% and 7*(1-0.3)=4.9% which would actually make it usefull even if it is multiplikative. The exact method and number of this skill should be determined by devs and require further testing, but I think we all agree that in the current state this skill needs serious rework. It shouldn't reduce fire chance too much, because this would make all ships which relly on HE ammo useless, but also it shouldn't be in the same state as it is right now, because nobody would pick it. 

I am also thinking that this skill should additionally reduce chance of flodding for some percentage (like 5-10% less chance of flooding) which would make it more interesting to pick.

 

EDITED: later some people pointed out that in tier 2 basics of survivability is still no brainer for BBs. So maybe this captain skill tree needed to be changed in a way that fire prevention would become tier 2 skill and basics of survivability would become tier 3 skill!!!!

 

Dispersion camuflage

This skill would increase the dispersion of the enemy shells fired at you by 6-10%. I think it should increase the dispersion more than you can decrease it by reduced dispersion skill. The reason is that if both skills would provide the same percentage bonus, good players will always take reduced dispersion, because they would know bad players can not aim that good. Of course developers would have to balance those two skills out so that BBs, CAs, DDs will have to think hard which one to pick. Also in this row BBs and CAs will have to decide whether to chose dispersion reduction, fire chance or dispersion camuflage.

 

Dogfighting expert

This skill would increase damage your fighters deal for 3-7%. I really like that now US fighter heavy CVs will have to think whether to get a little buff to their fighters damage or take reduced dispersion skill and get a good buff to dive bombers damage since all fighter heavy setups relly on dive bombers to deal damage. US strike CVs will have to chose between torpedo acceleration (faster torpedoes) which will enable to hit more torpedoes or reduced dispersion skill. IJN CVs will also have to think very hard either to take torpedo acceleration (more torpedo hits) or dogfighting expert in order to get better chance against larger US fighter squadrons. 

So overall I think CVs have plenty of options and decision to make in the row 3 ( I like this a lot ).

 

Engine boost

This skill would boost you engine power or increase your top speed. For example either 3-6% more engine power or 1-3 knots better top speed. The exact numbers needs further testing, but this skill would really bring more variety to tier 3 row of skills. Now gunboat DDs will have to chose between reduced dispersion, dispersion camuflage and engine boost. Also torpedo DDs will have to chose between torpedo acceleration, dispersion camuflage and engine boost. So this really gives plenty of options in tier 3 skills for DDs which I like.

 

TIER 4 SKILLS

 

Demolition expert

This skill should be reworked so that it will be balanced with the skill fire chance. It can be multiplicative or additive just balance it out with fire chance. Maybe it would be interesting to additionally give this skill to increase chance of flooding of your torpedous. By this change skills fire prevention and demolition expert would fight with each other for fires and floodings and demolition expert would become interesting skill even for CVs, because their torpedoes have very little chance of flooding. Maybe give demolition expert very high increase to chance of flooding so that it will become a viable skill for CVs. Again I have to stress out that developers have to balance this skill with fire chance very carefully!!!

 

Advance firing training

I would leave this skill as it is. Almost all BBs and CAs go for it in the current state, but since I gave a lot more other good  skills in this row it will no longer be a no brainer skill. It will be good for ships which want to increase their AA range or/and secondary batteries range.

 

Survivability expert

This skill would increase hp for the ships. For example for each tier of the ship you get 300-500 more hp for DDs, 500-800 more hp for CAs, 1000-1300 more hp for BBs and 1400-2000 more hp for CVs. Or it could just be 10-20% more hp for all classes of ships. I don't know this also require further testing, but the current version of this skill is only good for the DDs and I want this skill to be OK option for every class not only DDs.

 

Vigilance

I would leave this skill as it is. Maybe even buff it to 30% to aqusition range of torpedo detection, since it is now in the row 4. Good skill for anyone who doen't want to get hit by torpedoes. 

 

Aircraft survivability expert

This skill would increase all aircraft hp for 5-10%. Now CVs have to think between demolition expert (big buff to their torpedoes flooding chance and little buff to bomb fire chance), survivability expert (you can hardly be CV sniped in the beggining of the match due to a lot more hp) or aircraft survivability expert (more hp to all planes). 

 

Superintendent

I would leave this skill as it is. Now all BBs and CAs have hard choices to make. They can take advance firing training (increase their AA and secondary batteries), survivability expert (flat increase to their hp pool), vigilance (avoid torpedoes better) or superintendent (get additional radar, hydroaqustic, AA panic, hp heal...). CAs can also go for demolition expert. 

DDs also have to think a lot now. Gunboat DDs can chose between demolition expert, advance firing training, vigilance or superintendent and torpedoboat DDs can chose between survivability expert or superintendent. Overall I like that finally in this row there is no no brainer skills and everyone has to think hard what skill to pick.

 

TIER 5 SKILLS

 

Expert loader

This skill would decrease loading time of your main battery guns for 5-10%. Great skill for BBs, since even with 5% reload reduction your reload goes from 30 seconds to 28.5 seconds. 

 

Manual secondary control

I am not a BB player, but I heard that this secondary build is just not good enough. It is said that this build is only good on Bismark. So maybe lets reduce dispersion for secondaries for -70% instead of -60%. Or maybe make dispersion different for each tier by this formula which was suggested by @Kenliero ( formula is: 40 + (Tier * 3) ):

 

tier 1 you have -43%

tier 2 you have -46%

tier 3 you have -49%

tier 4 you have -52%

tier 5 you have -55%

tier 6 you have -58%

tier 7 you have -61%

tier 8 you have -64%

tier 9 you have -67%

tier 10 you have -70%

 

Of course this is just a suggestion, but I think it is a good way to start and rebalance this skill. Also the problem is that your secondaries only fire on the targets you select. This is good because it requires players involvement, but why not make just that secondaries will fire on all targets in range with normal dispersion and if player select a target then all secondaries that CAN fire at that target fire with BETER dispersion, but secondaries on the other side of the ship will also be able to fire on other ships in range, but with NORMAL (bad) dispersion. This would make this skill a clear better upgrade and will enable more ships to chose this setup. 

 

Preventive maintenance

This skill would reduce for 60-90% chance of all your modules and turrets to get damaged or destroyed. Also it would reduce the chance of being magazined detonated for 70-100%. I mean we are in tier 5 skill row, therefore this skill should really be something good and be competative with other skills in this row. 

 

Concealment expert

This skill would reduce detectability by 6-9% for DDs, 9-11% for CAs, 10-12% for BBs and 18-24% for CVs. This is currently the skill for all DDs, CAs and even most BBs. So that is the reason why I nerfed it for all these classes (I don't want no brainer skills). But I even buffed this skill for CVs in order to encourage them not to take air supremacy.

 

Air supremacy

I would leave this skill as it is. It is still pretty strong skill for CVs and since I don't want this to be a no brainer for CVs, I buffed the concealment expert so that CVs get 18-24% concealment reduction and maybe US CVs will consider between those two skills.

 

Jack of all trades

This skill would reduce cooldown on all mounted consumabels for 15-30%. Now combine this with high alert and premium repair and BBs can push their cooldown on damage control party down to 52 seconds (if jack of all trades is 25% reduction). This could be interesting build for agressive and brawling BBs which could extinguish fires and floodings a lot more often. 

 

 

Now a tier 5 skill row finally has good skills and it also forces people to make choices. Stelath firing CAs and BBs can take concealment expert, brawling BBs and agressive CAs and DDs can take expert loader, ships where something breaks or get magazined detonated can take preventive maintenance, brawling BBs can take jack of all trades and CVs can take air supremacy or concealment expert.

 

So my friends tell me what you think? Do you agree with my suggestions or would you introduce complitely different skills? Please write down in the comments and lets make a constructive debate.

 

 

EDIT:

1.) I think Expert marksman should become tier 1 skill (you force BBs and CAs to chose either Expert marksman or High alert in tier 1) and Measurment instruments eksperties should become tier 2 skill. Reason is that I think Measurment instruments eksperties is just better, so it should be in higher tier.

 

2.) I think Basics of survivability is still no brainer for BBs in tier 2, therefore Fire prevention should become tier 2 skill and Basics of survivability should become tier 3 skill! In that way captain skill tree would not have so much 'no brainers', because many people complain that without this change BBs would take High alert, Basics of survivability, Reduced dispersion... But now in tier 1 and 2 there are no 'no brainers' and in tier 3 BBs have to choose between Reduced dispersion, Basics of survivability and Dispersion camuflage.

 

3.) Some people disagree with Air supremacy skill for CVs beeing in the captain skill tree, because it is too strong and just another no brainer. Well what about removing it and introducing these skills for aircrafts:

 

tier 1: Expert rear gunner... it is pretty useless skill but I don't know what else to put here, we are still in tier 1 and skill here should not be very strong.

 

tier 2: Aircraft servising expert... I would leave this skill here, because CVs have to decide whether they want -10% servicing time for all aircrafts or take Torpedoo armnament expert and get -20% servicing time for torpedo bombers only.

 

tier 3: Dogfighting expert... I would leave this skill here, there should be something which enhances fighters, but still CVs have to choose between this skill or Torpedo acceleration (faster torpedoes) or Reduce dispersion (lesss dispersion for dive bombers). Especialy US CVs will hate decide whether to buff their fighters or their dive bombers. 

 

tier 4 & tier 5: Aircraft survivability expert & Aircraft accelertion... I honestly don't know which skill should be in tier 4 and which in tier 5. Both are prety good, for example +10% to all aircraft hp and +5% more speed to all your aircrafts are very good CV skills, but I really don't know which would be better. Remember faster bombers spend less time under AA fire and can escape from enemy fighters, while faster fighters can catch enemy bombers more efficently, therefore both skills are really good. 

Stats I gave up there are just examples and I guess they should be choose carefully by developers, but anyways I just edited this post because I am interested what is your opinion about my suggestions?

[Ictogan]

Too many too powerful skills = larger gap between skilled and unskilled captains.

How good a ship is should be influenced more by player skill and only to a small degree by the captain skills.

[woodyudet_17]

rather than new skills, the ability to still gather skills beyond 17 would be useful - i'd rather be able to keep training captain to access more of the current skills i.e. don't cut off at 999,999

[aleksandrov2]

Too many too powerful skills = larger gap between skilled and unskilled captains.

How good a ship is should be influenced more by player skill and only to a small degree by the captain skills.

 

But what is the point of a captain grinding then? I believe this full captain skill tree gives you the ability to customize your captain according to your preferences and play style. Also I don't believe here are too powerfull skill. I gave a wide range of possible stats for each skill and specificlly said that the skills require further testing. Furthermore skills I proposed don't change the balance that much that captain skills would give you definite adavantage where players skills would not matter anymore.

What is then your alternative? Which skills in this full captain tree do you think are to powerfull? Are you happy with current skill tree where actually there are a lot to OP skills?

[aleksandrov2]

rather than new skills, the ability to still gather skills beyond 17 would be useful - i'd rather be able to keep training captain to access more of the current skills i.e. don't cut off at 999,999

 

Well of course everyone would like to progress faster, including me

But still I would rather have this full captain tree where skills are beter balanced with each other and where you actually have a choice and ability to train your captain acording to your playstyle.

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

Some interesting ideas there, and I'd be quite happy if some of them were developed further. WG refreshed the tree earlier in the year, because they know that there are too many "no-brainer" choices.

 

My particular grievance with Captains skills is that you are forced to choose something from each tier. My own view is that if you have 10 points to "spend" than you should be able to spend them how you want. For example, If this means 1 x Tier 4 skill, 2 x Tier 2 skills, 2 x Tier 1 skills and zero Tier 3 skills, then so be it!

[aleksandrov2]

Some interesting ideas there, and I'd be quite happy if some of them were developed further. WG refreshed the tree earlier in the year, because they know that there are too many "no-brainer" choices.

 

My particular grievance with Captains skills is that you are forced to choose something from each tier. My own view is that if you have 10 points to "spend" than you should be able to spend them how you want. For example, If this means 1 x Tier 4 skill, 2 x Tier 2 skills, 2 x Tier 1 skills and zero Tier 3 skills, then so be it!

 

Thank you for your compliment sir.

 

Although I disagree with you suggestion. High tier skills are a lot more usefull than lower tier skills and by enabling player simply choosing skills in any order you would get a situation @Ictogan was worried about: captain skills would become very importaint factor instead of player skills. 

[Shirakami_Kon]

rather than new skills, the ability to still gather skills beyond 17 would be useful - i'd rather be able to keep training captain to access more of the current skills i.e. don't cut off at 999,999

 

In the supposed case this tech tree would become available I think WG could also rework the XP needed for each captain point and allow a few more points cap. + 2/3 points or something like that because that 9999999 points in the end just look ridiculous. If they don't want to give captains a higher point cap then just put a limit to the XP they can get and at some point they just stop earning XP and points for skills, but that 9999999 XP needed for the last point it's just ridiculous.

[aleksandrov2]

 

In the supposed case this tech tree would become available I think WG could also rework the XP needed for each captain point and allow a few more points cap. + 2/3 points or something like that because that 9999999 points in the end just look ridiculous. If they don't want to give captains a higher point cap then just put a limit to the XP they can get and at some point they just stop earning XP and points for skills, but that 9999999 XP needed for the last point it's just ridiculous.

 

XP needed for each captain point shouldn't be set to low, because that would eliminate the grinding element, but also shouldn't be too high. Some kind of balance have to be applied here. I agree that the current 9 999 999 XP for last skill is just overkill and it should be dropped. 

Although I disagree about adding more captain skills. Max ammount of skill should be 19. The reason behind this is that 20 point captain would allow you to get 2 tier 5 skills and this is too strong in my opinion (looking at my captain skill tree). But even if we look at the current captain skill tree there are problems. By allowing a lot more skills players could take concealment expert (curently very strong 'no brainer' tier 5 skill) and then also take multiple tier 4 skills (tier 4 skills are one of the strongest ones currently). 

 

I admit that if my captain skill tree would be implemented the problem would get even worse. Because all my skills are usefull in some extend, by allowing 25 skill captain for example, you would take away the player skill and really reward heavilly top skill captains. Also my high tier skills are really strong so having 20 point captain or more would give players the ability to get two tier 5 skills which is too OP in my opinion.

 

So to summarize everything: 

- I am against increasing maximum number of points captain can have (even in the current captain skill tree)

- I support lowering XP for specific captain point (but not massive decrease there should also be grinding involved)

- I would even be OK with max 15 point skill captain, JUST give us the usefull captain skill tree where all skills are usefull, there are no ''no brainer'' skills and you have ability to spec the captain to suit your own preferances and playstyle!!!

[gizaman]

I do like the idea of getting rid of the no brainer choices.

 

I would make the skill tree a bit different.

 

There are some different types of playstyles and ships. Sadly your suggestion does not benefit them all.

 

Your skill tree would effectively buff the battleship immensely and nerf the cruisers a lot.

 

Battleships would pick this : high alert, BoS,  fire prevention, Vigilance/survivability expert, jack of all trades.   The 16-17 and 18 should be used on , measuring instruments and reduced dispersion.

I am not sure what your intentions are but if it is to make cruisers , the ipn ships completely useless that is a good step in doing so. Some ships only way of playing is to use fire, if that is not viable then what is the point.

Both reducing time of burn AND reducing fire chance will effectively make some ships non playable. It is a fine line. 

 

Yes the demolition expert gets nulified by the fire prevention skill but that essential just a buff of the battleship. Reduce fire damage is at the moment a nerf of cruisers and a hard one.

 

 

 

 

d

[aleksandrov2]

I do like the idea of getting rid of the no brainer choices.

 

I would make the skill tree a bit different.

 

There are some different types of playstyles and ships. Sadly your suggestion does not benefit them all.

 

Your skill tree would effectively buff the battleship immensely and nerf the cruisers a lot.

 

Battleships would pick this : high alert, BoS,  fire prevention, Vigilance/survivability expert, jack of all trades.   The 16-17 and 18 should be used on , measuring instruments and reduced dispersion.

I am not sure what your intentions are but if it is to make cruisers , the ipn ships completely useless that is a good step in doing so. Some ships only way of playing is to use fire, if that is not viable then what is the point.

Both reducing time of burn AND reducing fire chance will effectively make some ships non playable. It is a fine line. 

 

Yes the demolition expert gets nulified by the fire prevention skill but that essential just a buff of the battleship. Reduce fire damage is at the moment a nerf of cruisers and a hard one.

 

 

 

 

d

 

Thanks for the constructive critisism. You are right in the extend that my captain skill tree has a potential to become a buff to the BBs. BUT!!! as I said in the beggining I gave a large interval of options for stats of all skills, therefore further testing could put those stats high or low according to get a balance skill tree. 

I specificly wrote under fire prevention and demolition expert that those skills should be really well balanced with each other not to make one of them too OP. I don't know what specific stats these skills should get, but I think we could both agreee that fire prevention in the current state is one of the most useless skills in the game. 

About me ruining cruiser I have to say this: it is extremelly hard to make a balance. You are afraid that my skill tree will nerf the HE spam cruisers, but look at the forum and you will see countless BB posts about how OP are those HE spammers and how they can not do anything. I am not saying that you are wrong and they are right, but just lets try to be objective and look at the empirical data about which class is getting more average xp. 

Also I disagree there are no good skills for cruisers in my skill tree. In tier 1 there is measuring instrument expertise to make them more likely to hit their target (because shells will reach their target faster), incoming fire alert for paper cruiser (maybe for incoming british CA) and manuverability expert to make faste manouvers and avoid getting citadeled by a BB. In tier 2 IJN CAs could make use of buffed expert marksman, stealth master (to dissapear out of detection faster), basics of survivability (to reduce damage taken by floodings and fire) or torpedo armemnt expertise (for torpedo CA). In tier 3 they can get reduced dispersion, dispersion camuflage or engine boost ( to sail away from the danger faster). In tier 4 they can take demolition expert (increase their fire chance and flooding chance), advance fiing training (for AA CAs), survivability expert (for additional hp), vigilance or superintendent (high tier CA have hp heals). In tier 5 they can go for expert loader ( increase their DPM ), concealment expert or jack of all tradees to get faster reload for hp heal, radar, hydroaqustics... I don't think my skills are that bad for CAs.

[_GrimLock__]

The skills u sugested are quite nice,not so sure for the current meta (sniping bbs) .They could chose the dispersion skill and sit even further in the back but the ones with reduce rudder may also make them push into  the front lines ,as they now have more acceptable rudder shift time.Not bad ,not bad at all

[gizaman]

The issue is, when you have an useless skill like fire prevention and you make it an incredible good one. 15 or 30% lower fire damage is a big deal. Then it is a nerf of ships that NEEDS those fires. The entire british cruiser line that comes soon is based on fast 152mm fire spamming. They are completely depend on that mechanics. Some of the ideas are correct they will help but they will also help the battleship in nuking the cruiser so I do not see them that helpful.

Fire damage was the last time i saw it from a chart around 14% of the damage battleships take. I can not see a problem in that.

 

My warspite can heal 5 times and with 20% more heal that is 11k each time. Furthermore with upgrades it takes around 6-7 k of damage for a fire. It is really not a big issue. I think most battleships players just wants their ship to be total immune of damage. Nerf destroyers, nerf cruisers etc. It is really not that hard to avoid torps and the fire is seldom an issue.

[aleksandrov2]

The skills u sugested are quite nice,not so sure for the current meta (sniping bbs) .They could chose the dispersion skill and sit even further in the back but the ones with reduce rudder may also make them push into  the front lines ,as they now have more acceptable rudder shift time.Not bad ,not bad at all

 

Yes as I said before skills need to be balanced out. But right now you can take modules to reduse the dispersion for 7% I think. So if this tier 3 skill reduced dispersion would give you only 4% better dispersion I don't think it would be really OP.

[aleksandrov2]

The issue is, when you have an useless skill like fire prevention and you make it an incredible good one. 15 or 30% lower fire damage is a big deal. Then it is a nerf of ships that NEEDS those fires. The entire british cruiser line that comes soon is based on fast 152mm fire spamming. They are completely depend on that mechanics. Some of the ideas are correct they will help but they will also help the battleship in nuking the cruiser so I do not see them that helpful.

Fire damage was the last time i saw it from a chart around 14% of the damage battleships take. I can not see a problem in that.

 

My warspite can heal 5 times and with 20% more heal that is 11k each time. Furthermore with upgrades it takes around 6-7 k of damage for a fire. It is really not a big issue. I think most battleships players just wants their ship to be total immune of damage. Nerf destroyers, nerf cruisers etc. It is really not that hard to avoid torps and the fire is seldom an issue.

 

Look my aim is not to buff the BBs ( by the way I am not even playing BBs!!! ). It is hard to make a balanced change because right now there are BBs drivers on the forum crying how OP HE spammers are and saying that with introduction of british CAs the situasion will get even worse. I want to make fair captain skill tree.

 

You say fire damage BBs take is on average 14%, so lets suppose this is true. On the first note I agree with you, that feels too small to me. But there is a way to change that. If CAs really need more fires then lets make my skills in that way. Fire prevention can also be 15% or 10%, if they really need help. This captain skill tree could also be changed so that fire prevention become tier 2 skill and basics of survivability become tier 3 skill. In row 3 there are some other usefull BBs skills, therefore not all BBs will take basics of survivability. 

 

Or if this is not enough you could buff demolition expert accordingly. I did not write down any stats for it, because I know that it will be hard to balance out fire prevention and demolition expert. 

 

The developers should look at the empirical stats (which class has more average xp) and then balance those two skills.

 

 

 

 

[Hedgehog1963]

I want situational awareness back where it belongs on the third row, like it was in Closed Beta.

 

[aleksandrov2]

I want situational awareness back where it belongs on the third row, like it was in Closed Beta.

 

 

Really? I like it a lot that they put it on all ships as a default. I mean situational awarness is so essential on all class of ships (even on BBs), therefore I would not put it in the captain skill tree.

[Fionia_DK]

I do think, the skills should be adjusted. 
WG could start with the weaker once, such as Fireprevention and expert loader. They are currently not usefull.

 

 

Fionia

[aleksandrov2]

I do think, the skills should be adjusted. 

WG could start with the weaker once, such as Fireprevention and expert loader. They are currently not usefull.

 

 

Fionia

 

Agreed. But what about my skill tree. Do you think it is too powerfull?

[S4h3L]

I would like to see DE and AFT as T5 skill to bring some diversity to CE hegemony for most cruisers and DDs

aaand I would remove CV talents, its no point to have them if every CV captain is go for them (except dogfight) and are no use for other ships

[aleksandrov2]

I would like to see DE and AFT as T5 skill to bring some diversity to CE hegemony for most cruisers and DDs

aaand I would remove CV talents, its no point to have them if every CV captain is go for them (except dogfight) and are no use for other ships

 

You see this is the problem I am talking about. You want to put demolition expert and advanced firing trainig in row 5, which would actually mean nerf to the cruisers. But people like @gizaman are saying my captain skill tree is a massive BBs buff already. Everyone has different opinion.

In this case I disagree with you. I would not move demolition expert and advance firing training in the tier 5 skills. They are complitelly OK in tier 4. 

I also would not remove CV talents. I agree with you that these CV skills should not be very strong, otherwise they would become no brainer choice for CVs. So lets give them such statistics that CVs will also think about taking other skills like (reduced dispersion, concealment expert, measuring instruments expert...).

Don't forget that aircrafts are primary CV weapon, therefore by removing their skills you would put them in the unfair possition. Of course in some rows there are other good skills to chose instead of aircrafts skills, but don't just remove all their skills.

[EsaTuunanen]

Also I disagree there are no good skills for cruisers in my skill tree. In tier 1 there is measuring instrument expertise to make them more likely to hit their target (because shells will reach their target faster), incoming fire alert for paper cruiser (maybe for incoming british CA) and manuverability expert to make faste manouvers and avoid getting citadeled by a BB.

And guess what ships would suffer most from shell trajectory buffs?

Those which can't take any extra hits and fires.

Meaning destroyers (like most IJN DDs need further nerfing) and cruisers which lack "healing" ability.

Max range sniping would become more easier (we need more of that?) with long range spammers probably benefiting most.

While USN T7-9 cruisers without high firerate or anything special would probably be even bigger losers than currently.

And while Des Moines could benefit from it other ships with railguns and lasers would become even more deadlier from their max range.

 

 

Also I've found whole Survivability Expert not so great for balancing from the start no matter how it's done.

Hitpoints of the ships are one thing used for balancing ships between each others and tiers.

So ships meeting more than fair share of highter tier ships are already in disadvantage and if ships being more times top tier can further boost hp difference problem just increases.

 

Captain skills just aren't something separate which can be changed without looking how they affect overall game balance.

[EsaTuunanen]

I would like to see DE and AFT as T5 skill to bring some diversity to CE hegemony for most cruisers and DDs

That would nerf USN DD guns massively.

(or required sacrificing stealth)

 

It's just that at this state of the game "development" bigger changes to one area are going to have notable effect elsewhere.

Like what rumoured nerfing of IJN T4/5 DD torpedo range would do to overall game balance in current already BB heavy environment... with latest BB tree even having more secondaries.

[Hedgehog1963]

 

Really? I like it a lot that they put it on all ships as a default. I mean situational awarness is so essential on all class of ships (even on BBs), therefore I would not put it in the captain skill tree.

 

It was just the first step in what has been a relentless degrading of the ability of DDs to fight the bigger ships.

[aleksandrov2]

 

Any idea how stealthy some IJN CVs are?

 

Basically they would become stealthier than some destroyers.

 

While that Bogue would be still fast as continental glacier and without stealth.

 

Well first of all I don't think people will have tier 5 skills in low tier CVs. We are talking about higher tier CVs. And if you look at the stats Hakuryu has 15.7 km surface detection range. By talking concealment module (-10% detection) you can go down to 15.7*(1-0.1)=14.13 km. Then lets suppose that we would buff the concealment expert to the insanity (-24% detection). Then Hakuryu would have 14.13*(1-0.24)=10.7 km.

I don't think this is something too OP. CVs have planes and if you follow their planes, then you generally now where they are. 

Also do you actually believe that now suddenly all CVs would take concealment expert? I still think most of them would go for air supremacy.

In my opinion IJN CVs would prefer air supremacy because this would enable them to have better chances against US fighters and since they have more squadrons they will get overall more planes in the air. On the other hand US CVs will be able to pick air supremacy (to complitely rule the skys) or concealment expert (to limit their great weakness and this is their massive detection range). So I don't believe IJN CVs will suddenly all go for concealment expert.