Proposal on how to handle BC/BB and CC/CA in Tech Tree for Germany nad Royal Navy

[backoija]

Hi, 

 

My first post! 

 

I´ve been building a tech tree for SMS/KMS and the Royal Navy. I´ve been trying to incorporate Battlecruisers in a way that makes them competetive in the game. Due to real ship design evolution I see no place for BC in tier 9-10, barely making it to tier 8 acctually. I also made a suggestion for how to handle heavy cruisers in the Royal Navy line.

 

Some comments:

Seydlitz as first premium for Germany, only ship in class, historically famous after the battle of Jutland. 

Deutchland class Panzershiff, I´ve classified it as at heavy cruiser, should be in the game but I don´t know if tier 5 is the right place?

 

After the presentation of the Royal Navy light cruiser line I´ve tried to incorporate the heavy cruisers of Royal Navy in it. The Royal Navy acctually did not have that many heavy cruisers. Ive placed the York class before the County class (not historically correct) due to the amount of guns. York have 6 8-inch guns and County (and subclasses) 8 8-inch guns.

 

Royal Navy BBs, so much to choose in the low tiers, made to lines to tier 6.

Royal Navy BCs, I have the Admiral class in the line and Hood as premium. Hood should be the first BC in game as a premium, a way to present a new shipytype (yeah I know there are BCs in the Jap BB line but I mean as a "real BCs")

 

So, comments? should I never post again?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sophia_Mus]

Very well done young man. I have some of the same ideas. Hope WG takes a look at your work.

[backoija]

Very well done young man. I have some of the same ideas. Hope WG takes a look at your work.

 

Well thank you, but I´m far from a young man...

 

BR / backoija

[Sophia_Mus]

Nor am I ha ha!

Got a huge interest in naval history from a long time ago and my favorite fleets are the Royal Navy and the German High Sea Fleet.

As such I am kind of a scholar in regard to matters concerning those two, but ofc I also know a lot about the IJN and US navies plus the French and Italian ones too.

About Russia and Spain, well I know something, but they are not my top priorities.

 

Greetings from a middelagede "Sealord"

[Trainspite]

I have my RN proposal in my signature, if you want to read for ideas. It is a little outdated, but for CAs & BCs it should still work.

The last true BC is Renown for the RN, after that, it is effectively Fast BB, so getting a line to tier 10 is no problem ;)

[backoija]

I have my RN proposal in my signature, if you want to read for ideas. It is a little outdated, but for CAs & BCs it should still work.

The last true BC is Renown for the RN, after that, it is effectively Fast BB, so getting a line to tier 10 is no problem ;)

 

Hi,

 

I have seen your massive tech tree and it is difficult not to be impressed. I belive that BC does not adapt to the game higher than tier 7-8 when as you say almost all "regular " BB have the speed of a BC but much more armour, i.e fast BB.

 

What do you think about the Deutschland class? Were does it fit?

 

BR / backoija

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

Hi, 

 

My first post! 

 

I´ve been building a tech tree for SMS/KMS and the Royal Navy. I´ve been trying to incorporate Battlecruisers in a way that makes them competetive in the game. Due to real ship design evolution I see no place for BC in tier 9-10, barely making it to tier 8 acctually. I also made a suggestion for how to handle heavy cruisers in the Royal Navy line.

 

Some comments:

Seydlitz as first premium for Germany, only ship in class, historically famous after the battle of Jutland. 

Deutchland class Panzershiff, I´ve classified it as at heavy cruiser, should be in the game but I don´t know if tier 5 is the right place?

 

After the presentation of the Royal Navy light cruiser line I´ve tried to incorporate the heavy cruisers of Royal Navy in it. The Royal Navy acctually did not have that many heavy cruisers. Ive placed the York class before the County class (not historically correct) due to the amount of guns. York have 6 8-inch guns and County (and subclasses) 8 8-inch guns.

 

Royal Navy BBs, so much to choose in the low tiers, made to lines to tier 6.

Royal Navy BCs, I have the Admiral class in the line and Hood as premium. Hood should be the first BC in game as a premium, a way to present a new shipytype (yeah I know there are BCs in the Jap BB line but I mean as a "real BCs")

 

So, comments? should I never post again?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HMS Queen Mary never received the updates that HMS Lion and HMS Prinsess Royal did in the form of better fire control spotter planes AA and improved APC shells (Greenboys) but I do agree that it belongs on tier V as a premium however I think she would be too weak compared to adding a fully upgraded end of service life HMS Prinsess Royal but as with the british dreadnought type battleships there are too many ships with more or less the same capabilities in the tiers III-VI spectrum making it hard to pick which ones to pick.

Also HMS Indefatigable class would certainly fit in tier IV being capable of using all 4 turrets in broadsides while the HMS Lion class with its 13,5" guns might be too powerful?

[Trainspite]

 

Hi,

 

I have seen your massive tech tree and it is difficult not to be impressed. I belive that BC does not adapt to the game higher than tier 7-8 when as you say almost all "regular " BB have the speed of a BC but much more armour, i.e fast BB.

 

What do you think about the Deutschland class? Were does it fit?

 

BR / backoija

 

I know, the classic BC architype of poor armour (i.e. 10" and below) doesn't fit at high tiers, however, after HMS Hood, with it's 12" belt and armour comparable to the Queen Elizabeths, the BC effectively becomes a Fast BB, with slightly worse armour for good speed. 

Looking at some the high tier BC/Fast BB candidates you have:

 

Design - Armament - Speed - Armour - Standard Displacement

RN: (Since you have J3 already)

G3 9x 16" - 32kn - 14" belt - 52.2k

K3 - 9x 18" - 30kn - 12" belt - 49.2k

 

IJN:

Kii       - 10x 16" - 29.75kn - 11.5" belt - 47.7k

No.13 - 8x 18"   - 30kn      - 13" belt    - 47.5k

 

USN

BC-5-1915 - 8x 16"   - 30kn - 13" - 56.5k

Scheme D  - 12x 16" - 30kn - 12" - 49.5k

Scheme C  - 12x 16" - 30kn - 12" - 53.0k

 

HF/KM

SK4542 - 8x 16.5" - 30kn - 12" - 45.0k

GK10     - 8x 16.5" - 32kn - 12" - 44.0k

 

 

Most of these have similar specifications to the Fast Battleships like North Carolina or Iowa that succeeded them. So to top of a tree that starts with BCs, I would use these (J3 to G3, Amagi to Kii etc.)

 

In my opinion, the Deutschland class fits as a tier 7 regular cruiser. Graf Spee as the same tier premium. Because effectively, they are fat but slow Heavy Cruisers which have traded out 8-10x 8" for 6x 11", which can make easier to slice open most cruisers. So tier 7 in a Panzerschiffe/Armoured Cruiser line for me. 

[TheCinC]

KGV, Lion 1938 and Vanguard all at tier VIII?
Like!

There was a huge debate about that in an earlier topic, KGV is vastly underestimated by some.

But it would be blasphemous imho to say that the KGV was inferior to Bismarck.

Bismarck and Tirpitz are very much overrated, everybody keeps repeating that they were the most powerful battleships of their time.

Hogwash.

[GhostRiderMax123]

I would love to have HMS Vanguard in my port I really would

 

[Trainspite]

KGV, Lion 1938 and Vanguard all at tier VIII?

Like!

There was a huge debate about that in an earlier topic, KGV is vastly underestimated by some.

But it would be blasphemous imho to say that the KGV was inferior to Bismarck.

Bismarck and Tirpitz are very much overrated, everybody keeps repeating that they were the most powerful battleships of their time.

Hogwash.

 

To be honest, I think that Lion 1938 should be a semi-stock option for a tier 9 Lion that fully upgraded is a 1942 design in 1945 condition.

 

That is the fame element that overtakes Bismarck & Tirpitz really. 

[Eruantien_Aduialdraug]

I propose calling the tier 10 Lion "Temeraire", as that was a name put forward was one of the Lions.

 

Aynho, I will voice concern over the Revenge, it's worse in most criteria than the QEs, but far too powerful for tier 5. In other news, could the G3 be a tier 9 battlecruiser? And may I humbly suggest HMS Agamemnon and SMS Schleswtig-Holstein as tier 2 premium BBs?

[backoija]

I propose calling the tier 10 Lion "Temeraire", as that was a name put forward was one of the Lions.

 

Aynho, I will voice concern over the Revenge, it's worse in most criteria than the QEs, but far too powerful for tier 5. In other news, could the G3 be a tier 9 battlecruiser? And may I humbly suggest HMS Agamemnon and SMS Schleswtig-Holstein as tier 2 premium BBs?

 

The HMS Royal Sovereign will probably make an apperence as the Arkhangelsk in the Russian BB line, most likely as an premium.

I would like to have HMS Agamemnon and Schleswig-Holstein as tier 2, even as non-premiums. 

 

BR / backoija 

[Mighty_Mongoose]

HOW CAN YOU NOT HAVE THE COUNTY CLASS CRUISERS IN ANY ROYAL NAVY TECH TREE.  Norfolk, Suffolk, Devonshire, Dorsetshire. Some of the most famous vessels in Royal Navy history. Too fast, too powerful for Royal Navy haters at WoWs.

[Trainspite]

I propose calling the tier 10 Lion "Temeraire", as that was a name put forward was one of the Lions.

 

Aynho, I will voice concern over the Revenge, it's worse in most criteria than the QEs, but far too powerful for tier 5. In other news, could the G3 be a tier 9 battlecruiser? And may I humbly suggest HMS Agamemnon and SMS Schleswtig-Holstein as tier 2 premium BBs?

 

I would actually call the tier 9 (1939+1942 designs) Temeraire, as the name Lion gets taken by the Battlecruiser of that name. Thunderer could work though.

 

Revenge should be fine. She has less AA, less speed, and less HP but is more compact and smaller, and hence a bit more survivable. The Rs also should get access to the supercharges for the 15"/42 which gives them a better shell velocity, that can make them quite a bit more powerful. Revenge should be a decent alternative to Queen Elizabeth for those who can handle her. 

 

 

 

[Comrad_StaIin]

York would need an Aoba like RoF buff to work at that Tier 

you could also place it at tier 5 where you could leve it as is

[Tigger3]

With the US having the ST Louis at tier 3 and the Russians having the Bogatyr, I would like to see an equivalent RN ship - along the lines of the Diadems to Monmouths or later.

 

Although some of them like the Minotaurs with their heavy mixed armament would not fit with the curret game meta and some although classed as 1st Class Cruisers were also reffered to at times as Battle Cruisers (in that they were designed to operate as fast trade protection cruisers but still able to operate as part of the fleet).

[backoija]

HOW CAN YOU NOT HAVE THE COUNTY CLASS CRUISERS IN ANY ROYAL NAVY TECH TREE.  Norfolk, Suffolk, Devonshire, Dorsetshire. Some of the most famous vessels in Royal Navy history. Too fast, too powerful for Royal Navy haters at WoWs.

 

Well.... I have the County class at tier 7....so... 

 

BR / backoija

[Close_Quarters_Expert]

This is definitely what I'd like to see in the game. You've hit the nail on the head perfectly, backoija

 

Dreadnought as premium would be my only iffy thing (though I agree, this is most likely going to be what WG choose to do). I think she should be a main tech tree ship due purely to the linear progression of the line, which would naturally have her at the start. Vincent is a good choice, but yeah...Dreadnought is the best T3 choice for Britain as she'll show noobies the ropes well.

[Ferdinand_98]

Dreadnought as Premium. You don't know how much I hate you.

 

Neat Tech Tree, BTW