Upcoming IJN Destroyer split

[DominusEdwardius]

There you go;

bow looking back

 

Improved bridge structure

Stern looking foward

 

Oh and I just noticed Shinonome (seriously why Shinonome of all the Fubuki's) has an updated model so it now looks like a group 1 destroyer special type opposed to the group 2 Fubuki which the Fubuki model ironically is ( Really they should rename Shinonome Fubuki and keep the tech tree Fubuki as Ayanami! at least then the two classes would be correctly represented and Shinonome would no longer be the most pointless premium ever!). From Gamemodels3D:

 

[Takeda92]

Thanks for the pictures.

 

Well from Reddits Q&A:

 

- The reason they chose Shinonome because it fits the stats they wanted better (as in. screw IJN, they don't get to have historically relevant ships)

- Hatsuharu, Shiratsuyu and Akizuki will have the torpedo reload booster in the same slot as speed booster (yeah, give the slowest ships in the game an option to replace speed boost, while German DDs get their hydro for free).

- Apparently, the IJN torpedoes are so borderline overpowered, they can't buff their detection to be similar to other nations. Shame on you guys to play OP ships. You should apologize in chat for every time you hit someone with your IJN DD with a torp. Go play Kutuzov or German DDs instead, those require a lot of skill in sitting inside smoke and shooting carelessly.

- Kagero does 20-25% more torpedo damage than Fletcher, oh the horror, please nerf!

[DominusEdwardius]

So basically....

- I have no words... that is just...

- I have no words again... although at least it is better than having it on smoke

- Seriously I'm starting to run out of words.. good thing you won't have to apologise much considering how hard it actually is to hit something

- So basically either someone is lieing or most US DD captains have the same problem that a large percentage IJN DD captains have with their their guns, they don't use them properly or use them at all!

 

Honestly...

[Takeda92]

So basically....

- I have no words... that is just...

- I have no words again... although at least it is better than having it on smoke

- Seriously I'm starting to run out of words.. good thing you won't have to apologise much considering how hard it actually is to hit something

- So basically either someone is lieing or most US DD captains have the same problem that a large percentage IJN DD captains have with their their guns, they don't use them properly or use them at all!

 

Honestly...

 

I mean, for the first one, I see their point. Shinonome is very different than Fubuki because she didn't live long enough to get modernized. If only they released IJN premiums this year instead of 3rd US BB or one millionth Russian cruiser..

 

For the second one, I just don't know why they are so scared of that consumable, but it makes sense to only give it to the line that will have the fewest torps and the longest torp reload. I guess Akizuki getting few extra knots over her stunning 33 knots was deemed overpowered.

 

For the third one, that is what amuses me. So reducing the torp detection by 200-400 meters will make the ships OP? how will Mutsuki with 6km torps can even be OP? I get it for the 20km torps. they are not good for the game, but seriously!

 

For the Kagero damage, it won't mean much since she'll be replaced by Yuugumo, which will be a much better improvement over Kagero. But will she be competitive with Fletcher and the powercreep German DDs? we'll see.

 

 

To be fair to Sub_Octavian and not sarcstically paraphrase him, this what he had to say on the NA forums

 

phoenix14345, on 10 November 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

The nail to torpedo boats and the IJN DD line

Please STAHP I don't get this attitude at all.
If you feel like burying IJN DD, wait for line split. If even that won't help...maybe these are not your ships?
Because they look good. They really do. I am not going to make things up and say they are weak and to be buffed, because right now this is not the case.
The line has some problems, they are being resolved by the split, with new ships, and several old ships shifting tiers.
But they are not dying, and not underpowered.

 

 

[Takeda92]

OMG.. 

 

https://sea-group.org/?p=1677&lang=en

 

They even nerfed the fire chance to 7% as well as the damage to 1800, and nerfed the damage and fire chance of the 120mm guns on the lower tiers as well (from 2000 8% to 1700 7% chance)

 

Also, they removed the stock and elite torpedoes or Isokaze and Wakatake respectively. It still says that Isokaze keeps the type 92, but Wakatake loses her top torps (only difference is 9k damage against 10.8k damage)

[DominusEdwardius]

I did say a couple of posts back about the 7% fire chance, going back to Shinonome, yes she wouldn't have been modified heavily given she sank about 10 days into WW2 But at the same time why is it a necessity to have premiums in that state at which they sunk to the bottom You could just as easily say Fubuki 1942 condition and still have a reasonably interesting premium from a historical perspective.

 

Thankfully Yugumo is an improvement over the current Kagero, more AA (which isn't hard since Kagero literally has the worst AA tier 6 onwards), more main battery damage (although not as much as it could have been ), marginally faster torpedo reload, more HP and slightly faster. Whether it can best the or match its piers at tier 9 however... maybe.

[Verdius]

They even nerfed the fire chance to 7% as well as the damage to 1800, and nerfed the damage and fire chance of the 120mm guns on the lower tiers as well (from 2000 8% to 1700 7% chance)

 

Because IJN guns were so OP and we all knew that the line with the lowest stats per tier should get nerfed even harder than it already was.

Now you have USN guns only without the RoF and turret traverse that made USN guns good!

 

But don't worry, you can get good torps AND good torpedoes by playing the USN or the DE DDs! Oh and our premiums are also leagues better than their tech tree counterparts! What is balance even?

 

Also what suboctavian is basically saying is that its tough luck if you spend hours grinding a line only for WG to change it to where it doesn't resemble the old line anymore and that those ships you worked hard for are suddenly not for you anymore (so go grind Germand DDs instead). They don't look good, they look mediocre or worse and not competitive.

[fumtu]

Thankfully Yugumo is an improvement over the current Kagero, more AA (which isn't hard since Kagero literally has the worst AA tier 6 onwards), more main battery damage (although not as much as it could have been ), marginally faster torpedo reload, more HP and slightly faster. Whether it can best the or match its piers at tier 9 however... maybe.

 

You can say that for all of them. Fubuki and Hatsu will be better than Mutsuki at T6, same for Akatsuki and Shiratsuyu compared to Hatsu at T7, Akizuki will at least bring something different to T8 and Yugumo is definitely an improvement to Kagero. But question will any of them be competitive to their opponents at respective tiers. I'm not to optimistic about that. Nerfing their gun HE for 300 points and 2% fire chance while only marginally buffing RoF for majority of the line won't help them much. They turret rotation is horrible consistently for all ships in the line. With progression ships have more tools to detect and dodge torps, more health and at higher tiers even cruisers can heal themselves but for some reason as you go higher IJN torps get longer detection range. Except removal 15 and 20km torps, which could be justify, they didn't offer anything for compensation. Hatsu and Shiratsuyu, in so called gunboat line, should benefit from a better stealth fire range but average RoF and nerfed HE (DPS) will greatly limit their damage output especially against BBs. But I wonder how long will take till they nerf that too. Maybe one or two ships could shine but I guess that majority will stay at the bottom of all stat lists (I really hope that I'm wrong about that). Especially once KM dds came along.

[Takeda92]

It all makes sense now, why they picked Shinonome and why she has rather... meh stats.

 

Sh'e gonna be a reward ship for a new mission system similar to WoT,, planned or next patch.

[1MajorKoenig]

These WOT missions sucked big time imo. Too bad I was quiete curious about Shinonome even if her stats look mediocre

[fumtu]

It all makes sense now, why they picked Shinonome and why she has rather... meh stats.

 

Sh'e gonna be a reward ship for a new mission system similar to WoT,, planned or next patch.

 

If they wanted Fubuki class dd that didn't "live" long enough to be get upgrades they could find better choices than Shinonome like Shirayuki or Murakumo. They at lease had longer war carrier and took part in some well known battles.

[Takeda92]

 

If they wanted Fubuki class dd that didn't "live" long enough to be get upgrades they could find better choices than Shinonome like Shirayuki or Murakumo. They at lease had longer war carrier and took part in some well known battles.

 

At least it wasn't Miyuki (sunk even before the war)

[mrak1979]

 

You can say that for all of them. Fubuki and Hatsu will be better than Mutsuki at T6, same for Akatsuki and Shiratsuyu compared to Hatsu at T7, Akizuki will at least bring something different to T8 and Yugumo is definitely an improvement to Kagero. But question will any of them be competitive to their opponents at respective tiers. I'm not to optimistic about that. Nerfing their gun HE for 300 points and 2% fire chance while only marginally buffing RoF for majority of the line won't help them much. They turret rotation is horrible consistently for all ships in the line. With progression ships have more tools to detect and dodge torps, more health and at higher tiers even cruisers can heal themselves but for some reason as you go higher IJN torps get longer detection range. Except removal 15 and 20km torps, which could be justify, they didn't offer anything for compensation. Hatsu and Shiratsuyu, in so called gunboat line, should benefit from a better stealth fire range but average RoF and nerfed HE (DPS) will greatly limit their damage output especially against BBs. But I wonder how long will take till they nerf that too. Maybe one or two ships could shine but I guess that majority will stay at the bottom of all stat lists (I really hope that I'm wrong about that). Especially once KM dds came along.

 

I dont understand WG logic. They increase IJN DDs RoF by good margin but still not comparable to USN DDs. But now they decrease their damage and fire chance. So we are back in the past again. Turret traverse is still horrible so the alpha damage and fire chance compensate it slightly but in prolonged fights with USN or Soviet DD you loose the fight because you cant effectively dodge while firing the guns! Torpedos will be still same so no advantage were left...slightly better concealment not that much better than USN.

 

Im realy curious what is the WG goal in that matter!

[NoirLotus]

 

Im realy curious what is the WG goal in that matter!

 

Very simple, they want IJN DD players to move to german DD ...

[Takeda92]

 

Very simple, they want IJN DD players to move to german DD ...

 

Well if that's the case, then they can shove their new ships up their behinds as far as I'm concerned.

[Nethraniel]

 

Well if that's the case, then they can shove their new ships up their behinds as far as I'm concerned.

 

Totally, unconditionally agreed... I for my part would be quite pi**ed if they would change the playstyle of my IJN DDs drastically and make another Nation the playstyle I like, just better.

[Spellfire40]

 

You can say that for all of them. Fubuki and Hatsu will be better than Mutsuki at T6, same for Akatsuki and Shiratsuyu compared to Hatsu at T7, Akizuki will at least bring something different to T8 and Yugumo is definitely an improvement to Kagero. But question will any of them be competitive to their opponents at respective tiers. I'm not to optimistic about that. Nerfing their gun HE for 300 points and 2% fire chance while only marginally buffing RoF for majority of the line won't help them much. They turret rotation is horrible consistently for all ships in the line. With progression ships have more tools to detect and dodge torps, more health and at higher tiers even cruisers can heal themselves but for some reason as you go higher IJN torps get longer detection range. Except removal 15 and 20km torps, which could be justify, they didn't offer anything for compensation. Hatsu and Shiratsuyu, in so called gunboat line, should benefit from a better stealth fire range but average RoF and nerfed HE (DPS) will greatly limit their damage output especially against BBs. But I wonder how long will take till they nerf that too. Maybe one or two ships could shine but I guess that majority will stay at the bottom of all stat lists (I really hope that I'm wrong about that). Especially once KM dds came along.

 

​Fubuki is not better at T6 that mitsuki because Mitsuki has the one Thing that any curent DD past t6 not have: Speed

A T6 Fubuki will be keept open by a T5 Fujin /kamikaze all day Long with nothing it can do about it. Missing stealth module crap Speed....

 

Who cares abot the new t9 Torp line DD  buffs who Needs AA it wont save you from aserous atack and you unflexilble and limited with the 10km crap range on Torps  it Needs  shimas 12 km Torps and even then 2X4 is very unflexibible. About the T8 Gunboat..... 1 Torp lancher.....33 kn....seriously ? IJN CA will run you down.

 

High Alpha /fire Chance/stealth gave you a Chance to put some hurt and then quickly disengage in smoke if nessesarry nerfing that`? IJN can fight a sustained sps fight agist DDs that are faster and have much higher rof

[Nethraniel]

Agreed to Spellfire40... if (and I still hope that stays an if) the values stay the way they are leaked, I mostly see downgrades for the IJN line. 

[Comrad_StaIin]

well you cant just shoehorn a second launcher on Akizuki..

[Spellfire40]

well you cant just shoehorn a second launcher on Akizuki..

 

​But you can gut in a gunboat that at least slightly outrun a cruiser.....or make the Torp reload boster not replace Speed boost on this one or make gunship speedbost last longer and give more Output if Aki dont fit the bill use Project xyz like they did on 50% of RU ships. realism not over balace......

[fnord_disc]

I really don't think Akizuki is too weak right now...

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm opposed to the general philosophy (from torpedo boat to weird universal boat) that sits behind this split. And I also think the performance of the ships will suffer for the average player. But is Akizuki, with its current stats, too weak?

 

Oh, hell, no.

[Spellfire40]

I really don't think Akizuki is too weak right now...

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm opposed to the general philosophy (from torpedo boat to weird universal boat) that sits behind this split. And I also think the performance of the ships will suffer for the average player. But is Akizuki, with its current stats, too weak?

 

Oh, hell, no.

 

​Vs what? what happens if a CA cases you down or even a german BB? you cant outrun while didging. hope your one Torp Chance does something ? or your 100mm do vs bow on CA BBs?

[fnord_disc]

 

​Vs what? what happens if a CA cases you down or even a german BB? you cant outrun while didging. hope your one Torp Chance does something ? or your 100mm do vs bow on CA BBs?

 

Explain to me how that's not a problem with your tactics and your positioning. If you play the ship like a Minekaze, then yeah, you will get shafted. That's not what it will be good at.

[Takeda92]

As long as Akizuki's HE being able to pen DDs, I think she'll be fine.

 

It's not going to be a competitive ship, that you could use in ranked or clan wars, but it will do well in random battles provided she can any other DD's [edited]in a gun fight. If they didn't give her even that, then it would be weak.

[fumtu]

 

​Fubuki is not better at T6 that mitsuki because Mitsuki has the one Thing that any curent DD past t6 not have: Speed

A T6 Fubuki will be keept open by a T5 Fujin /kamikaze all day Long with nothing it can do about it. Missing stealth module crap Speed....

 

Who cares abot the new t9 Torp line DD  buffs who Needs AA it wont save you from aserous atack and you unflexilble and limited with the 10km crap range on Torps  it Needs  shimas 12 km Torps and even then 2X4 is very unflexibible. About the T8 Gunboat..... 1 Torp lancher.....33 kn....seriously ? IJN CA will run you down.

 

High Alpha /fire Chance/stealth gave you a Chance to put some hurt and then quickly disengage in smoke if nessesarry nerfing that`? IJN can fight a sustained sps fight agist DDs that are faster and have much higher rof

 

Well you can say same thing for current Hatsuharu. It also could be out-spotted by Kamikaze/Fujin. While its concealment is noting special (7km) it's still stealthier than Farragut (7.6km) or Ognevoi (7.7km) and the same as Anshan (7km but with camo). Even at T7 only Shiratsuyu should have better concealment. But unlike Mutsuki you get one triple torpedo launcher more (33% more torps), two guns more than Mutsuki (with upgraded guns) and much stronger AA. And Mutsuki with just to guns at T6 or any other tier is just pathetic. And you have possibility to increase Fubuki speed with a flag to somewhere around 36.75km.