NEW CAPTAIN SKILL TREE SUGGESTION

[aleksandrov2]

Even though 0.5.3 patch gave us great captain skill tree, I think there is still some room for the improvement. Please note that some things I will suggest might require further testing or developers will realise they are too OP to be introduced, but still these are my ideas and I wellcome you to contribute constructively in this debate. 

First you should know that my ultimate goal is a CHOISE. I don't want a captain tree where for some classes of ships decisions of which skills to chose are no brainer. I don't want useless skills which nobody chooses. I want DIVERSITY! 

So lets begin. I will write down all the skills from tier 1-5. For each skill I will tell whether I would change it in some way or leave it as it is.

 

TIER 1 SKILLS

I think this row needs to be reworked since it is a no brainer. BBs, CVs and CLs go for basics of survivability, DDs go for basic firing training.

 

Expert loader

One of the most useless skills in the game, I would just remove it and instead give something like -5% dispersion for the main battery guns. It could also be -10% dispersion. Like I don't know exact number that would require further testing by developers, but I would like to give here something to choose. Maybe US BBs could take it over basics of survaivability. I mean basics of survaivability is still very good, but just give us more options. 

 

Basic firing training

I would leave it as it is.

 

Basics of survivability

I would leave it as it is

 

Expert rear gunner

Another useless skill. The improvement you get is so minimal and anyways with the introduction of strafing rear gunners are even less importaint. I would exchange that skill with aircraft acceleration. Maybe something like +5% faster planes, although this might be too much in higher tiers so even fixed increase would be OK (like +5 knots aircrafts speed). This could eliminate no brainer for CVs which take basics of survivability. 

 

TIER 2 SKILLS

Another row with no brainers. BBs, CLs go for expert marksman, CVs for torpedo armament expertise and DDs for last stand. 

 

Expert marksman

I would leave it as it is.

 

Torpedo armament expertise

I would leave it as it is.

 

Fire prevention

Right now the problem of this skill is that it is multiplicative and not additive. So if enemy has 7% chance of fire per shell and hits you, his chance of fire doesn't go down on 0% (if you have fire prevention). Actually his chance of fire is 6.5% (7*(7-0.07)=6.5%). So I would change this skill that it would decrease fire chance for 3% per shell! Of course the correct number requires further testing, but this is highly needed change.

 

Incoming fire alert

It is also pretty useless skill, but I don't know with what skill should I replace it. So for now lets leave it as it is. Maybe put it in tier 1 skills since it is so bad.

 

Last stand

I would leave it as it is.

 

TIER 3 SKILLS

This is most balanced row overall and would require just minimal change.

 

Torpedo acceleration 

I would leave it as it is.

 

High alert

Pretty good skill, although others are so much better that even BBs don't really take it. You can just take premium repair. So maybe this skill could get some boost like +15% faster cooldown on damage control party. I am not sure about that, but still 10% cooldown is just not decisive enough so I think we could improve it. 

 

Vigilance

I would leave it as it is.

 

Dogfighting expert

This is only completely useless skill in this row. 10% improvement for your fighters for each tier of difference (if other carrier is higher tier) is just useless. Because of mirror matchmaker you will rarely see higher tier carriers. In higher tiers you are even limited to 1 carrier per team so you shouldn't take that skill. I would exchange it for something like +5% higher damage for your fighters or +10% more health for your fighters. At least give us something usefull.

 

Superintendent

I would leave it as it is.

 

TIER 4 SKILLS

Pretty balanced row also, but survivability expert is too weak for anything exept IJN DDs.

 

Demolition expert

I would leave it as it is.

 

Advanced firing expert

I would leave it as it is.

 

Survivability expert

It is too weak right now for most ships. Change it so that added health for each tier would maybe be like +400 for DDs, +700 for CL, +1000 for BBs and +1100 for CVs. You can see that I increased hp per tier for a lot and this is because I want to make this a strong alternative to other skills which are pretty good. Again exact numbers should require further testing, but this skill definatelly needs a rework.

 

Aircraft servicing expert

I would leave it as it is.

 

Manual AA

I would leave it as it is. I really like that WG include skills which demand some players involvement. 

 

TIER 5 SKILLS

Now here is a big problem because tier 5 skills should be reallly strong, but I see many players just skipping this row because there is nothing for them or many go for concealment expert. As I said before I want diversity and choise so I buffed other skills in order to do so .

 

Last chance

I can't believe WG included this skill in 5 row. It is so situational that it is crazy. This skill should be really something great. I would make it -5% reload time for your main battery guns. I think that -10% reload time is too much, since there is module which reduces reload time for 10% and with this skill combined reload -20% faster is just OP. But -5%reload is still very good. Like if BB reload time is 30 seconds then 5% reduction puts you on 28.5 so this would still be a good buff.

 

Manual secondaries

I am not a BB player, but I hear that this secondary build is just not good enough. It is said that this build is only good on Bismark. So maybe lets reduce dispersion for secondaries for -70% instead of -60%. I really like though that WG include skills which demand some players involvement. 

 

Preventive maintenance

I think this skill needs further buff so -60% chance of modules getting damaged or destroyed and -60% chance of being magazined detonated. So it should be really something good because it should be competative with other skills in this row.

 

Air supremacy

I would leave it as it is. It is still no brainer skill for CVs.

 

Consealment expert

I would leave it as it is. Almost anyone goes for this skill (even in BBs) so this is the reason why other skills in this row should be buffed. Again there should be more alternatives.

 

Jack of all trades

Now this is clearly aimed at BBs but still I don't know whether they use it a lot. So maybe even buff it to -20% faster reload time for all consumables (I want to make it a good option)

 

 

So my friends what do you think about my suggestions? Would you maybe even add some new skills? Please let us make a healthy discusion and not just another threat where people are insulting each other. Everybody is entiteled to his/her opinion and please respect that. Tell me what you think and if you dissagree write an argument why .

[SomeoneYouKnow2]

Pretty good suggestions. There are also some holes in the captain skill tree that needs to be filled.

 

Tier 3 artillery could be reduced dispersion for example. It would compete with Superintendent giving you the option of more lethal guns or more potential health.

 

Tier 2 aircraft could be increasing speed of fighters by some percentage. It would compete with reducing servicing time for TBs and actually give a choice for a CV player.

 

Tier 4 concealment and acquisition could be increase incoming dispersion of shells similar to some camo schemes. (could be called: Make an offering to RNGesus)

 

Tier 1 special skills could be an overlay of WASD in big semi-transparent flashing letters in the middle of the screen. Sorry I am out of ideas at this point...

[Riggerby]

Honestly, I think Air Supremacy should be removed. Its such an OP skill when someone who has it comes against someone who dosent. I mean.. Take a Saipan for example, If a Saipan captain has that skill, There is not a single carrier in her tier that can rival her. 

 

And, Its not just her, Any carrier who dosen't have that skill, And they get matched against the same carrier and they do have it, They stand no chance, They may aswel just exit to port as they're litterally stuffed...

 

Its unfair that a skill can completely give one player an absolutely gargantuan advantage over the other. They either need to make Air supremacy a lower tier skill so its accesable to all carrier players early on so they dont have an absolutely massive grind of being innadequate and underpowered to reach it, or they just need to remove it entirely to level the playing field.

 

It makes Japan strike and American Air superemacy loadouts OP. Too many fighters and too many bombers for an opponent who dosent have the skill to counter.

 

Skills should enhance a ship, Not ensure it complete dominance, Its a truly broken skill.

 

Hell, if anything, Just remove the +1 fighter and just leave the +1 bomber, Hell, Even make it +2 bombers (Since bombers are RNG based anyway, Dosent matter much), But.. The extra fighters are just completely unfair.

[Kenliero]

Manual Secondary skill -% dispersion could be something like: (40 + (Tier * 3))

With that formula, you have:

 

tier 1 you have -43%

tier 2 you have -46%

tier 3 you have -49%

tier 4 you have -52%

tier 5 you have -55%

tier 6 you have -58%

tier 7 you have -61%

tier 8 you have -64%

tier 9 you have -67%

tier 10 you have -70%

 

That would encourage Tier 9-10 to go closer and also make secondaries somewhat useful in lower tiers.

[aleksandrov2]

Honestly, I think Air Supremacy should be removed. Its such an OP skill when someone who has it comes against someone who dosent. I mean.. Take a Saipan for example, If a Saipan captain has that skill, There is not a single carrier in her tier that can rival her. 

 

And, Its not just her, Any carrier who dosen't have that skill, And they get matched against the same carrier and they do have it, They stand no chance, They may aswel just exit to port as they're litterally stuffed...

 

Its unfair that a skill can completely give one player an absolutely gargantuan advantage over the other. They either need to make Air supremacy a lower tier skill so its accesable to all carrier players early on so they dont have an absolutely massive grind of being innadequate and underpowered to reach it, or they just need to remove it entirely to level the playing field.

 

It makes Japan strike and American Air superemacy loadouts OP. Too many fighters and too many bombers for an opponent who dosent have the skill to counter.

 

Skills should enhance a ship, Not ensure it complete dominance, Its a truly broken skill.

 

Hell, if anything, Just remove the +1 fighter and just leave the +1 bomber, Hell, Even make it +2 bombers (Since bombers are RNG based anyway, Dosent matter much), But.. The extra fighters are just completely unfair.

 

I disagree. Tier 5 skills should be very strong and at the same time air supremacy has its drawback. You can get out of planes faster!! And btw if you know what you are doing you can still compete with enemy CV who has air supremacy (even if you don't have). Also I can still defeat saipan (in both loadouts) even if he has air supremacy in my hiryuu any time of the day.

This skill would be OP if it would increase +1 plane for your torpedo bombers

[SomeoneYouKnow2]

Manual Secondary skill -% dispersion could be something like: (40 + (Tier * 3))

With that formula, you have:

 

tier 1 you have -43%

tier 2 you have -46%

tier 3 you have -49%

tier 4 you have -52%

tier 5 you have -55%

tier 6 you have -58%

tier 7 you have -61%

tier 8 you have -64%

tier 9 you have -67%

tier 10 you have -70%

 

That would encourage Tier 9-10 to go closer and also make secondaries somewhat useful in lower tiers.

 

Why have a different percentage based on tier at all?

[Kenliero]

 

Why have a different percentage based on tier at all?

 

Because Mikasa would kill Yamato.

[aleksandrov2]

Pretty good suggestions. There are also some holes in the captain skill tree that needs to be filled.

 

Tier 3 artillery could be reduced dispersion for example. It would compete with Superintendent giving you the option of more lethal guns or more potential health.

 

Tier 2 aircraft could be increasing speed of fighters by some percentage. It would compete with reducing servicing time for TBs and actually give a choice for a CV player.

 

Tier 4 concealment and acquisition could be increase incoming dispersion of shells similar to some camo schemes. (could be called: Make an offering to RNGesus)

 

Tier 1 special skills could be an overlay of WASD in big semi-transparent flashing letters in the middle of the screen. Sorry I am out of ideas at this point...

 

OMG these are some great suggestions right here. Yes I really like what you are thinking! You are forced to chose between different options (where both of them are good). So yeah I guess lets leave expert loader and expert rear gunner as they are and introduce artillery dispersionat tier 3 and aircraft acceleration at tier 2. Also in tier 4 under concealment and accusition increasing dispersion of enemy shells I LOVE THAT IDEA. Again great suggestions, you got my like sir.

[procrastinatingStudent]

Manual Secondary skill -% dispersion could be something like: (40 + (Tier * 3))

With that formula, you have:

 

tier 1 you have -43%

tier 2 you have -46%

tier 3 you have -49%

tier 4 you have -52%

tier 5 you have -55%

tier 6 you have -58%

tier 7 you have -61%

tier 8 you have -64%

tier 9 you have -67%

tier 10 you have -70%

 

That would encourage Tier 9-10 to go closer and also make secondaries somewhat useful in lower tiers.

 

not sure i agree with all of those numbers but a sliding scale would be so much nicer so my warspite will hit some thing witht the secondays at longer (really close) range and you don't sudenly just to hitting so much more at the same range in a gneisena.

it would just be a manner of testing the numbers

[SomeoneYouKnow2]

 

Because Mikasa would kill Yamato.

 

You totally convinced me

[Namolis]

Last chance is such a stupid skill in all possible senses of the word. First of all, its situational. Even if you were fighting bots who were not inclined to focus low health targets, it's still just (30% buff)*(10% of the time) = 3% useful (assuming HP loss is linear). Too weak for 5 points.

 

Then there is the whole concept... I mean, I get that this is an arcade game and all, but the idea of your ship suddenly performing better after it has had the living #"(/%&"(/# shot out of it takes the suspension of disbelief thing a tad too far for me. If there was some kind of mechanic that lowered performance of a low HP ship (due to crew deaths injuries and general system damage) that this skill then let you ignore, I'd have less trouble accepting it. I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually a relic of some idea like that. In it's current form it's just beyond stupid imo.

 

So, yeah, exchange it for something more useful, like a buff in rof of, say, +0.15 shots per minute. That would make BBs have something other than the selfish concealment builds to go for, which would reduce the time people spend sailing empty at the start of the game.

[aleksandrov2]

Last chance is such a stupid skill in all possible senses of the word. First of all, its situational. Even if you were fighting bots who were not inclined to focus low health targets, it's still just (30% buff)*(10% of the time) = 3% useful (assuming HP loss is linear). Too weak for 5 points.

 

Then there is the whole concept... I mean, I get that this is an arcade game and all, but the idea of your ship suddenly performing better after it has had the living #"(/%&"(/# shot out of it takes the suspension of disbelief thing a tad too far for me. If there was some kind of mechanic that lowered performance of a low HP ship (due to crew deaths injuries and general system damage) that this skill then let you ignore, I'd have less trouble accepting it. I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually a relic of some idea like that. In it's current form it's just beyond stupid imo.

 

So, yeah, exchange it for something more useful, like a buff in rof of, say, +0.15 shots per minute. That would make BBs have something other than the selfish concealment builds to go for, which would reduce the time people spend sailing empty at the start of the game.

 

That is exacly the reason why I want all tier 5 skills to be usefull. Concealment expert is just so strong right now that even BBs take it. Also last stand is indeed completely useless. I proposed +5% faster reload speed of main battery guns

[1MajorKoenig]

Manual Secondary skill -% dispersion could be something like: (40 + (Tier * 3))

With that formula, you have:

 

tier 1 you have -43%

tier 2 you have -46%

tier 3 you have -49%

tier 4 you have -52%

tier 5 you have -55%

tier 6 you have -58%

tier 7 you have -61%

tier 8 you have -64%

tier 9 you have -67%

tier 10 you have -70%

 

That would encourage Tier 9-10 to go closer and also make secondaries somewhat useful in lower tiers.

 

This! If it should be this formula or another - I don't care. But certainly not just on/off. The skill is pretty useless below T7 with 15%!

 

 

[aleksandrov2]

Manual Secondary skill -% dispersion could be something like: (40 + (Tier * 3))

With that formula, you have:

 

tier 1 you have -43%

tier 2 you have -46%

tier 3 you have -49%

tier 4 you have -52%

tier 5 you have -55%

tier 6 you have -58%

tier 7 you have -61%

tier 8 you have -64%

tier 9 you have -67%

tier 10 you have -70%

 

That would encourage Tier 9-10 to go closer and also make secondaries somewhat useful in lower tiers.

 

I also like this idea. As always this needs further testing, but we need this skill to be reworked. Right now I heard it is only good on Bismark, even on Yamato it is not worth it. So definitely buff it and I like that it is slowly becoming better, because it definately can't be like -70% dispersion on tier 4 (that would be OP)

[Shirakami_Kon]

Very good sugestions, the only problem I see is that while I strongly agree that the Fire prevention skill (and even the  module) need to stop being [edited] garbage we would need to adjust the buff of that with a buff for Demolition expert, because as it is now, Fire prevention is as worth as air supremacy in a BB captain, it feels like it does absolutely nothing to the point that you prefer the ridiculous buff that expert marksman gives to the big guns a BB has, even if that skill is intended for DDs or very low tier cruisers, because if for two captain point you reduce the fire chance per shell you recive to 3%, with Demolition expert as it works would mean that only the people who spend 4 captain points of that gets a 6% chance no matter what, that would make BBs to OP, almost fireproof and Demolition expert would jump from one of the bets skills in it's row to the new Fire prevention skill as it is now.

 

As an idea to improve Fire prevention but balance it with Demolition expert would be... Yes, please make the % bonus of Fire prevention additive, not multiplicative, but buff Demolition expert acordingly.

 

For example: let's say that Fire Prevention becomes a raw -3/4% to the chance of fire of the shell that hits you, that would make the skill quite good already, almost certainly even a no brainer skill and help every type of ship, not only BBs, but since you could get that skill very easily (just two points) Demolition expert should be buffed to compensate for that skill and get a bonus. My idea would buff Demolition Expert to +6% chance of fire. That way Demolition expert would compensate for the "new" Fire prevention skill and still retain it's actual bonus which should retain, especially because you have to invest 4 captain point on that, which is not as easy as just two for Fire Prevention.

 

I see flaws in my idea, for example, with my idea people who doesn't get the Fire Prevention skill would have to deal with a +6% additive boost to fire from the cruisers and DDs that get that skill, but well, take my idea as some sort of "template" to what I try to say, not that literally, those two skills are quite hard to compensate and need quite the time of thought to how to do it, but anyways, Fire prevention and the module for fire chance reduction needs a serious rework, because how they are now they are just worthless. I don't know anyone who uses Fire prevention skill or notices a difference in case of doing so, and BBs use the fire and flooding module because at least the flooding reduction seems to me that it's additive (not sure though, but I think it is) and because BBs get absolutely nothing from preventing damage to their engine or rudder so that module it's pretty worthless too.

[Corvi]

I think Last Stand should be in Tier 1 instead of the Expert Loader, and Expert Loader on Tier 5 but instead of what it does now it would give some % of boost to reload speed.

[Gnomus]

Fire preventation, as it is currently calculated, should have something like 20-30% reduction, so that for example 9% fire change would drop to 6%, instead of 9->8.37.

 

Manual secondaries would need two fixes. One is arbitrary massive difference between T6 and T7 ships -15% to -70%. Kenliero's suggestion would be great.

 

In addition I would change it to work similar to manual AA. Bonus from skill gets applied when priority target is chosen, but otherwise AA/secondaries would work normally. Now manual secondaries is one of very few skills that can have negative impact, and it costs 5 points. Alternatively drop it to 3 or 4 point skill and keep non-firing "feature".

[Corvi]

Fire preventation, as it is currently calculated, should have something like 20-30% reduction, so that for example 9% fire change would drop to 6%, instead of 9->8.37.

 

Manual secondaries would need two fixes. One is arbitrary massive difference between T6 and T7 ships -15% to -70%. Kenliero's suggestion would be great.

 

In addition I would change it to work similar to manual AA. Bonus from skill gets applied when priority target is chosen, but otherwise AA/secondaries would work normally. Now manual secondaries is one of very few skills that can have negative impact, and it costs 5 points. Alternatively drop it to 3 or 4 point skill and keep non-firing "feature".

 

Thats actually a good idea for Manual Secs. I already had a couple of situations where i was surrounded by two enemy ships, one enemy on one side was utterly destroyed by my secondaries while the otehr one just calmly sailed past me because the other side of my ship didnt fire a single shot .. If they would actually fire without the bonus but still would fire id be a happy potato

[aleksandrov2]

Very good sugestions, the only problem I see is that while I strongly agree that the Fire prevention skill (and even the  module) need to stop being [edited] garbage we would need to adjust the buff of that with a buff for Demolition expert, because as it is now, Fire prevention is as worth as air supremacy in a BB captain, it feels like it does absolutely nothing to the point that you prefer the ridiculous buff that expert marksman gives to the big guns a BB has, even if that skill is intended for DDs or very low tier cruisers, because if for two captain point you reduce the fire chance per shell you recive to 3%, with Demolition expert as it works would mean that only the people who spend 4 captain points of that gets a 6% chance no matter what, that would make BBs to OP, almost fireproof and Demolition expert would jump from one of the bets skills in it's row to the new Fire prevention skill as it is now.

 

As an idea to improve Fire prevention but balance it with Demolition expert would be... Yes, please make the % bonus of Fire prevention additive, not multiplicative, but buff Demolition expert acordingly.

 

For example: let's say that Fire Prevention becomes a raw -3/4% to the chance of fire of the shell that hits you, that would make the skill quite good already, almost certainly even a no brainer skill and help every type of ship, not only BBs, but since you could get that skill very easily (just two points) Demolition expert should be buffed to compensate for that skill and get a bonus. My idea would buff Demolition Expert to +6% chance of fire. That way Demolition expert would compensate for the "new" Fire prevention skill and still retain it's actual bonus which should retain, especially because you have to invest 4 captain point on that, which is not as easy as just two for Fire Prevention.

 

I see flaws in my idea, for example, with my idea people who doesn't get the Fire Prevention skill would have to deal with a +6% additive boost to fire from the cruisers and DDs that get that skill, but well, take my idea as some sort of "template" to what I try to say, not that literally, those two skills are quite hard to compensate and need quite the time of thought to how to do it, but anyways, Fire prevention and the module for fire chance reduction needs a serious rework, because how they are now they are just worthless. I don't know anyone who uses Fire prevention skill or notices a difference in case of doing so, and BBs use the fire and flooding module because at least the flooding reduction seems to me that it's additive (not sure though, but I think it is) and because BBs get absolutely nothing from preventing damage to their engine or rudder so that module it's pretty worthless too.

 

Of course numbers I said were just examples. Fire prevention should probably be like 1-2% less fire chance per shell. Even if it is only 1% that would still be much better than the current version. Then demolision expert should be like +4% fire chance per shell. Fire prevention is only 2 tier skill so it shouldn't be tooo good and demolision expert is tier 4 skill so it should increase fire chance more then the tier 2 skill decreased it. But demolision expert of course should't be very high because then people who wouldn't have fire prevention would suffer. Again maybe give it 1-2% fire reduction

[aleksandrov2]

 

Thats actually a good idea for Manual Secs. I already had a couple of situations where i was surrounded by two enemy ships, one enemy on one side was utterly destroyed by my secondaries while the otehr one just calmly sailed past me because the other side of my ship didnt fire a single shot .. If they would actually fire without the bonus but still would fire id be a happy potato

 

That also could be the sollution yes. Manual secondaries fire normally on all sides on all targets, but if you select a target then all available guns that can fire will fire at that ship and will fire with -70% dispersion. Other guns will fire on other available targets and will not get -70% buff. Same logic is applied at manual AA.

I like this idea because in this case this skills are a clear buff. Noob players won't get screwed, if they forget to manually clik the target and pro players will enjoy the benefits without the nerf you get right now.

[Cosseria]

Interesting discussion; my 2 cents:

Incoming fire alert is still quite useful on a handful of ships, notably the glass cannon cruisers. I wouldn't touch it.

Another thing which I would like is the possibility to choose the speed/range ratio for the lvl 3 torpedo skill. You could choose your own custom value in a restricted range (so as not to give players 2 km Skhval 300 kts rocket torps) in order to make it viable for different ships or to try different gameplays on the same one. That ratio could be changed at any moment, just like you can shift from B to C hull on ships.

I would like every skill or module giving an advantage at the expense of other parameters to be customizable in such a way.

[Sub_Eleven]

What's with the Last Stand bashing? Yes it's pointless on a carrier but its a mandatory skill on most if not all destroyers.

[Capra76]

I think the starting point should be identifying the possible different builds for each ship class then build a skill tree around that, for example:

 

DD: pure gunboat(SN)/hybrid (USN)/pure torpedo-boat (IJN);

CA: AA specialist/counter-DD specialist/invisible firehose;

BB: Tank/long range sniper/AA/secondaries;

 

i'm sure there are other possible builds, my point is look at what you are trying to achieve first then build a skill tree from there.

 

It could actually be a good way to balance the game, if WG are fed up with the camping meta at high tiers then make the BB sniper build incredibly weak and the tank build incredibly strong.

[Capra76]

What's with the Last Stand bashing? Yes it's pointless on a carrier but its a mandatory skill on most if not all destroyers.

 

I did find an enemy Kagero today who opted not to go for it, I actually asked the question in chat and a friendly one said he didn't have it either.

 

Quick tip: if you're not running Last Stand on your Kagero, do not fire on a Fletcher under any circumstances.

[aleksandrov2]

What's with the Last Stand bashing? Yes it's pointless on a carrier but its a mandatory skill on most if not all destroyers.

 

Well I would much rather have last stand on my DDs than incoming fire alert, but as I said then lest leave this skill as it is.