Scharnhorst: A call for tips

[Kazomir]

Okay, got this ship based on the reviews that came with it. "Really fun ship etc etc."

 

Yet I dont know what to do with it. Its AP cannot damage other BBs, and all cruisers (3 per team) that are in the meta right now turn like hell when they see you. Also you get targeted by CVs and DDs every game, since new ship gotta sink it....

 

So, lay it down on me. Builds, captain builds, when to use AP and HE, everything. Give it to me.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

It's not like her shells could not damage enemy ships - they just do not hit

Seriously, I have no idea how to perform well in this ship, and I am repeating myself in every Scharnhorst-related thread as I am struggling the same way as you do. She is fun to sail but that's about it.

Maneuverability: Just great. Nothing to complain here. Maybe the only reason I play her every once in a while.

Armor: Great protection on lower hull and not easily citadelled (except through her bow - only side armor is strong). But her superstructure takes huge damage. If a Scharnhorst angles against my Admiral Hipper I still easily deal 6-9k dmg just by penning her superstructure. If Scharnhorst turns sideways I deal about 12k dmg per AP salvo. And her wooden deck is constantly on fire. No real torpedo belt.

Guns: Can't hit the side of a barn from inside. 'nuff said. HE shells have 20% fire chance - but only on paper. Used HE a lot in the beginning due to he Boot Camp mission at that time, fired countless HE shells at all sorts of enemies (DDs included), mostly hit their superstructure, caused 1 fire every 40-50 hits.

Torpedoes and secondary armament: Main source of damage

[Kazomir]

I am also interested in who the hell tossed the phrase "Cruiser killer"  This thing simply cannot citadel cruisers. I think ive gotten 1 or 2 now. Close, at range, whatever, you just get normal pens and no citadels.

 

The only thing I citadelled was a Nurnberg, but the nurnberg is a floating citadel that STILL is sitting WAY too high in the water.

 

Kinda getting sad that i bought the scharn, which youtubers said was sublime, instead of Dunkquerque, which youtubers dissed for some reason.

 

The guns' dispersion really kills this ship.

 

Basically its a close range ship in a meta that does not support close range gameplay AT ALL. IE, useless and obsolete.

[lafeel]

Seriously? 

 

If I can get a 104k damage game in the Scharnhorst (and I make no claim to be the greatest WoWS player ever) then surely the problem that you're claiming to be the ship actually is between your keyboard and chair.

 

Also, claiming that the meta "does not support" close range gameplay is quite frankly utter bollocks.

[Kazomir]

Seriously? 

 

If I can get a 105k damage game in the Scharnhorst (and I make no claim to be the greatest WoWS player ever) then surely the problem that you're claiming to be the ship actually is between your keyboard and chair.

 

Also, claiming that the meta "does not support" close range gameplay is quite frankly utter bollocks.

 

Claiming that the problem is within me is quite a high call for you. But Il let it rest.

 

Explain to me how the meta is NOT actually a long-range slugfest. If you call my argument bollocks you have to prove it.

 

Oh, And I dont intend ANY of my topics to be flame-fests. If you intend to post posts like this either do better ones or get out. I only asked for tips and builds.

[lafeel]

Simply put, if you're trying to sit back at maximum range in ANY bb and snipe you're playing her wrong. (imho)

 

That's all the tip you're going to get, as it's all you really should need. 

[Kazomir]

Simply put, if you're trying to sit back at maximum range in ANY bb and snipe you're playing her wrong. (imho)

 

That's all the tip you're going to get, as it's all you really should need. 

 

Dont know why you even bothered posting in a thread requesting tips if all you are going to tell me is a known fact. 

[Mucker]

OP, you are doing 71K average damage and 33% MBH in Scharnhorst and still claim this ship does not do damage and is inaccurate? I think you are exaggerating.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

Scharn can rekt any bb in side, last game side iowa 18k dmg no cita , sure u cant get good dmg at front , thats why u got fuel he

 

[Kurbain]

Play it like a Tirpitz, but use more HE because of the smaller caliber.

Obviously you will have to wait longer before you charge in since there are more BBs around at the moment.

 

Short summary:

Sail around at full speed while staying 13 to 17 KM away from the enemies.

Shoot AP at cruisers and broadside BBs.

Shoot HE at DDs and angled BBs.

If only 1 or 2 enemy BBs are left on your flank and you see an opportunity, charge in and use your torpedoes.

 

Captain skills:

T1: Basics of Survivability

T2: Expert Marksman

T3: High Alert/Vigilance/Superintendent

T4: Manual AA Control. Very important if you want your AA to be any good.

T5: Concealment/Jack of All Trades or another T4 skill like AFT/DE.

 

 

That aside, I must admit I'm not enjoying my time in the Scharnhorst as much as I expected either, because

1. The low caliber makes it difficult to damage enemy BBs with AP.

2. More BBs around than usual because of German BB release and DD nerfs.

3. AP isn't as useful against cruisers as I expected. At long range the accuracy is an issue and at short range you still overpenetrate just like all the other BBs. Shells also bounce more often since 283mm only overmatches up to 19mm.

 

 

These are not good times for battlecruisers like the Scharnhorst and Dunkerque since they have difficulties dealing with proper BBs.

[Mr_Mistery]

k i tell you my tactic with sharn if you use or not that your decision.

1.ALWAYS aim the supertructer(with AP,better then HE) at any distance expect when enemy show her side then i aim a little lower but the main armor belt oh and try go closer dont snipe sharn not good that.

2.when enemy come close try using the torp,sharn has very good torp angle i suprised many players who dont know the torp.

3.when come close you can try aim the water line if not make cit hit but can make 10k (i remeber one match when is kill a texas or new yorck in close range with cit hit and he stared to angled her ship)

4.always try angled your even a little some 380 or 406mm shell can bounce if do that(the turrets has good in the match max 1 time knocked out my second turret)

5. use her good speed.

[Kazomir]

OP, you are doing 71K average damage and 33% MBH in Scharnhorst and still claim this ship does not do damage and is inaccurate? I think you are exaggerating.

 

Now do I ? Still. Feels wonky. Damage could be more.

[EsaTuunanen]

[deadly_if_swallowed]

Scharn can rekt any bb in side, last game side iowa 18k dmg no cita , sure u cant get good dmg at front , thats why u got fuel he

 

Last game: full broadside on a low-hp Bismarck 7 km away. 9/9 missed. Rear gun fired too short, front guns probably killed a whale behind her. Tell me, how do I have to aim with this ship?

[Mucker]

 

Last game: full broadside on a low-hp Bismarck 7 km away. 9/9 missed. Rear gun fired too short, front guns probably killed a whale behind her. Tell me, how do I have to aim with this ship?

 

You have 31% MBH in Scharnhorst. Compared that to your Nagato (27%) and Amagi (25%), the alleged sneipr BBs, you are doing very well. Incidents like this happen all the time to all BBs, It's RNG, 

[deadly_if_swallowed]

IJN BBs were my first grind and I was very stupid back then, even upon reaching T8. Those do not count as reference Trollorado is a more appropriate comparison for this Tier as I grinded USN BBs much later.

 

Yes, I have 31% hit rate with Scharnhorst. But it feels like most of them are HE non-pens and AP overpens or ricochets.

[Kittykami]

Aiming the guns as you would a cruiser (shoot for upper belts and superstructure) works for me. Got some 10k salvoes against a Tirpitz the other night. I've also found her dispersion to be really good at usable ranges, especially when snapshotting DDs. YMMV I guess. 

 

If you have a German BB commander with AFT and manual secondaries that would be really good on her I feel. My captain isn't quite at that level but the secondaries are still great. 

[DeckardBR]

I was gifted a Scharnehorst (very lucky me!) and I have to say I am loving it. I have, for the longest time loved and done the best in my Terpitz, compared to any other BB up to an including the Yamato and Iowa (both of which I enjoy). It was going to take one hell of a ship to kick the Terpitz out of the top spot but this ship is definitely it!

 

I like to brawl so most of my BB/BCs are set up to maximize secondary firepower, and this ship is better at the brawl than even the awesome Terpitz. Longer range secondaries, rapid fire main gun, very maneuverable and fast with torps and excellent Armour. I agree with Kurbain and Mr_Mistery about how to handle her, you definitely need to pick your moment to engage and not get caught out in a cross fire from half the enemy fleet. Even 2 on 1 the Scharnhorst is BRUTAL at close range. I use the Tier 5 perk manual secondary fire control, makes a big difference to the hit rate of secondary batteries to the point where nearly 1 quarter of all my damage comes from secondaries or the fires they cause.

 

She does burn badly though, there are a few ships I have learned to keep away from, namely the Atlanta and Kutzhov! I also find it useful to have a platoon mate, in one and built for secondaries as well, because the ships are even more brutal in pairs ha ha!

 

It's an awesome ship if you like the high risk / high reward style of the brawler and are choosy with your targets, always be looking for people who go flat on to you and punish them for it, or use your rapid fire to keep setting them on fire, get rid of a third to half their health before you even brawl with them up close. 

[Darloc]

She is my favorite ship at the moment, if you play her like a BB it's probably not going to work, she is a battlecruiser so play her like a cruiser. If you are top tier you can push and if you know how to angle you will take little damage from BB or cruiser at or below your tier, her belt armor is very good but not her bow armor (she is no Derpitz), so try to invite shots at your angle side. She is fast so be the spearhead for your cruisers, you can tank shell that would wreak them. You can also go after DD, yes I am serious, she is fast and maneuverable (if you take the ruder shift upgrade) and you got very good secondaries. If you know how to torpedo beat then DDs are little treat to you, I even shoot AP at them as it can cause massive damage even if you overpen. 

If you are not top tier then spend the first half of the game hanging back, let the top tier BB start the engagement and wait for your moment. This is where the skill of playing the Scharnorst is, you need to know when to push. She can tank but will get deleted if you overextend against higher tier BB and cruiser. But she is very good at exploiting opponent mistakes and hole in their lines. I went after two Iowas once, they did wreak me but I managed to do a massive amount of damage to both of them using secondaries torps and aiming AP at their superstructure.  

I haven't found that she is burning that much but I equip premium consumables for that. CV will go after you but it hasn't been a huge problem. If you got get into trouble you can use her excellent handling and speed to get away, she can easily disengage. If the CV really becomes  a problem, stick with your cruisers, it will be costly for the CV to go after you, you have enough speed to keep up with the cruisers in your team.

I found that shooting HE with her is a waste of time unless the target is very angled or bow on, usually it does little damage and AP will do more at the superstructure if you aim properly. At long range she has bad dispersion but the trajectory gets flat below 13km making a lot easier to align shots. 

All in all a very strong ship, a cruiser worst nightmare and a very agile and fast BB.

 

[CLyDeThaMonKeY]

Usually me and my friends are doing the Gneis/Scharn/Cleve combo. Really fun And we take turns playing the three ships

Scharn is probs one of the most fun ships in the game atm

[deadly_if_swallowed]

Had one decent Scharnhorst game yesterday. To be fair, I was top tier and most enemies were T5... Most of the time I aimed for superstructure and did about 2-3k dmg per salvo. Not much but at least some hits. Whenever I aimed for a cruiser's citadel like I would in any other ship, the whole salvo was wasted. But by aiming way higher than usual I even scored some random citadel hits. Yay...

Summed up to 3 kills and 127k dmg, including 3 torp hits before getting burned down by a Kongou. Another defeat nonetheless.

She is fun to play but I just cannot perform well in her.

 

Regarding her reputation as "a cruiser's worst nightmare" - well, not mine. I have no fear picking a fight with Scharnhorst with Admiral Hipper 1v1. Probably would not be afraid with Yorck either (sold her in favour of Roon). At longer range both have better accuracy and don't have to rely on random hits, both have HE shells that actually start fires, in close combat both have torpedo advantage and sonar.

[Darloc]

3 kill and 127k dmg and you think she underperforms? wow....

What upgrade did you put on her? At extreme range the deviation is bad but I found at medium it's quite ok, it's a BB after all. No scarred by cruisers with her, but I am usually not playing isolated, I try to stick with cruisers/dd for support.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

That was one game out of 24, and it was a sealclubbing MM. I wonder what I could have done with Colorado ;)

I will edit my mods this evening after work

 

edit:

I am currently using the following specs (I use my cruiser captains on German prem BBs but the build should still be viable)

Ship modules	Captain skills
Main battery	BoS + BFT
Seconday range mod*	Expert marksman
Damage Control 1	Vigilance
Damage Control 2	AFT
--	Concealment expert

*) I used Aiming Systems before but wanted to try the enhanced secondaries yesterday. Surprisingly I hit much better with my main battery now.

[Mucker]

I really don't know why you all have such problems with fire. Use premium consumables and associated signals (-20% burn time, + 20% hp restored) and it becomes a non issue, unless you sail right into the middle of 5 HE spammers.

 

As for the built, I'd recommend: 

 

Ship: Auxilliary mod, AA mod, Damage control 1, steering gear mod

Captain (15 points): BoS+ BFT, Marksman, Superintendent, AFT + manual AA.  

 

This is basically a full AA build, but if you meet a carrier, you will get focused. While you still may get a bloody nose, the airgroups will too. 

[deadly_if_swallowed]

I really don't know why you all have such problems with fire. Use premium consumables and associated signals (-20% burn time, + 20% hp restored) and it becomes a non issue, unless you sail right into the middle of 5 HE spammers.

 

Scharnhorst is a yummy prem ship. It gets focussed by everyone in range even if there are better targets around. Lesson I learned with Tirpitz: always burn the walletwarriors first

And you got to admit the wooden deck is very likely to catch fire. Usually with the first HE shell that hits it, not to mention salvoes.