T_H_0_R Players 1,015 posts 4,182 battles Report post #26 Posted August 30, 2016 You are quite right. She did have those "smudges" during the trip to Norway and unless I am mistaken they can also be seen on the photos after The Battle of the Denmark Straight where she can be seen without any stripes. Not sure what it is / was... Something mechanical or a leak of some kind? Protective paint coating due to some collision damage perhaps? Or just plain camo to confuse the casual observer. I don't mind the slightly darker colors. As long as the scheme is accurate. Those smudges are however not missed on the perma camo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[_UKW_] TycBrum Players 387 posts 8,680 battles Report post #27 Posted August 30, 2016 If you want complete accuracy then the swastika also needs to be added on the decks. I still do not see what the fuss is about putting the real flags and markings on ships, for accuracy, no one can get sued from being historically accurate !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T_H_0_R Players 1,015 posts 4,182 battles Report post #28 Posted August 30, 2016 We don't need nor want the swastika. Just the missing black and white stripes on the superstructure to complete the Baltic camouflage. As for reasons why this isn't feasible even if we did - Google is your friend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T_H_0_R Players 1,015 posts 4,182 battles Report post #29 Posted September 11, 2016 A short clip where Bicmarck's full "Baltic camo" can be seen (stolen from Prinz Eugen thread): Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puxflacet Players 1,694 posts 3,784 battles Report post #30 Posted September 11, 2016 A short clip where Bicmarck's full "Baltic camo" can be seen (stolen from Prinz Eugen thread): you can clearly see that the thickness of the stripes is different 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T_H_0_R Players 1,015 posts 4,182 battles Report post #31 Posted September 11, 2016 Yup, definitely not of the same thickness. Btw. I did get a reply on my ticket. Apparently info from this thread was forwarded to developers. With no promises. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[IRQ] AnotherDuck [IRQ] Players 2,930 posts 7,510 battles Report post #32 Posted September 11, 2016 Hopefully it goes well. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T_H_0_R Players 1,015 posts 4,182 battles Report post #33 Posted September 20, 2016 Just a couple more shots with the "Baltic camo": Please finish the permaflage WG! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anonym_hqO9wrVAEQYQ Players 381 posts Report post #34 Posted September 20, 2016 We don't need nor want the swastika. You may not but I do. Plus its historical at some point in its life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T_H_0_R Players 1,015 posts 4,182 battles Report post #35 Posted September 21, 2016 You may not but I do. Plus its historical at some point in its life. Not going to happen. You have mods for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[IRQ] AnotherDuck [IRQ] Players 2,930 posts 7,510 battles Report post #36 Posted September 21, 2016 I don't really care about the swastika. For me it's just a symbol, but I understand that some people are sensitive about it, since mass murder in a game isn't the same as mass murder in real life history, and that symbol does unfortunately carry that connotation. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BONUS] Bellegar Beta Tester 1,866 posts Report post #37 Posted September 21, 2016 What exactly is this camo supposed to do? I mean I can understand how a zig-zag stripe camo throws off the enemy's aim, but this is mostly plain gray. So what's the point, apart from looking very sexy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SerPurr Beta Tester 722 posts 16,744 battles Report post #38 Posted September 21, 2016 What exactly is this camo supposed to do? I mean I can understand how a zig-zag stripe camo throws off the enemy's aim, but this is mostly plain gray. So what's the point, apart from looking very sexy? It's supposed to illustrate that, if given the option to choose out of several camouflages, WG will go to great lengths to choose the worst one possible. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T_H_0_R Players 1,015 posts 4,182 battles Report post #39 Posted September 21, 2016 What exactly is this camo supposed to do? I mean I can understand how a zig-zag stripe camo throws off the enemy's aim, but this is mostly plain gray. So what's the point, apart from looking very sexy? Apparently to throw off range finders which compare two images one on top of the other - made obsolete by the introduction of radar. It's supposed to illustrate that, if given the option to choose out of several camouflages, WG will go to great lengths to choose the worst one possible. More likely someone didn't do his/her homework and just used a famous photo to do the camo, not realizing it was in the process of being painted over. Thus the missing stripes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PAPAT] Sons_of_Horus Beta Tester 67 posts Report post #40 Posted September 21, 2016 But since there is atleast one photo, you really can't say it is "unhistorical". It's just not how you would want it. Besides, like you said before: use mod. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SPUDS] Unintentional_submarine [SPUDS] Beta Tester 4,052 posts 8,765 battles Report post #41 Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) Apparently to throw off range finders which compare two images one on top of the other - made obsolete by the introduction of radar. There are several things going on with the camo. Firstly the stripes are intended to mess up coincidence rangefinders, like the ones the British used. The stereoscopic rangefinders the Germans and Americans used were less sensitive to this sort of camo, but were instead more sensitive to: The fake bow and stern, making the process of matching the two images somewhat more cumbersome. But that part of the camo had more to do with size, speed and heading detection. And if lucky, even class identification. The two pictures in your last post show the fake bow and stern is very strong effect. In fact in the second picture the real stern is almost entirely obscured. In slightly hazy conditions, Bismarck could very well be mistaken for an Admiral Hipper (as happened in the Denmark Strait), and even if correctly classified, she could be given the wrong speed and heading. Bismarck's camouflage appears to be fairly simplistic, but it was pretty well thought out. Edited September 21, 2016 by Unintentional_submarine 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puxflacet Players 1,694 posts 3,784 battles Report post #42 Posted September 21, 2016 But since there is atleast one photo, you really can't say it is "unhistorical". It's just not how you would want it. Besides, like you said before: use mod. the historical problem with in-game camo is that it combines elements of 2 stages of bismarck's appearance which were not present at the same time - dark turret tops, bare superstructure she may look like that for a moment (for a few days perhaps), but there is no evidence for that...and also the stripe thickness is wrong (also the overall shade of gray is a bit darker but that may be just my impression) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BONUS] Bellegar Beta Tester 1,866 posts Report post #43 Posted September 21, 2016 There are several things going on with the camo. Firstly the stripes are intended to mess up coincidence rangefinders, like the ones the British used. The stereoscopic rangefinders the Germans and Americans used were less sensitive to this sort of camo, but were instead more sensitive to: The fake bow and stern, making the process of matching the two images somewhat more cumbersome. But that part of the camo had more to do with size, speed and heading detection. And if lucky, even class identification. The two pictures in your last post show the fake bow and stern is very strong effect. In fact in the second picture the real stern is almost entirely obscured. In slightly hazy conditions, Bismarck could very well be mistaken for an Admiral Hipper (as happened in the Denmark Strait), and even if correctly classified, she could be given the wrong speed and heading. Bismarck's camouflage appears to be fairly simplistic, but it was pretty well thought out. Thanks for the in-depth explanation. Was really wondering what the use of such 'simple' camo was Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T_H_0_R Players 1,015 posts 4,182 battles Report post #44 Posted September 21, 2016 But since there is atleast one photo, you really can't say it is "unhistorical". It's just not how you would want it. Besides, like you said before: use mod. I didn't call it unhistorical. Rather unfinished. As it is - the camo they are asking 3000 dublons for shows a half painted over Baltic camo. I don't want nor use mods. I want the camo for the bonuses it gives. And while I am paying for it I want it to look historical as advertised. If Prinz Eugen's camo is anything to go for (has stripes on superstructure), there is a chance we get this fixed or that they realized their mistake... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[FTR] zFireWyvern Modder, Alpha Tester 1,879 posts 1,162 battles Report post #45 Posted September 21, 2016 I don't want nor use mods. I want the camo for the bonuses it gives. You can use mods and still have the bonuses of the camouflages ingame, it's not an issue to have both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[2DQT] RUSSIANBlAS Players 8,241 posts Report post #46 Posted September 21, 2016 Not wanting to mod camo can be seen as similar to not wanting APR stuff. No one else is going to see it anyway... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T_H_0_R Players 1,015 posts 4,182 battles Report post #47 Posted September 25, 2016 Not wanting to mod camo can be seen as similar to not wanting APR stuff. No one else is going to see it anyway... Exactly. Whats the point if only I can see it, and every other ship will look the same. I keep my ARP stuff disabled (not just because its ARP, but because there are nicer ports in-game and I don't want mine flooded with ships I don't intend to sail in the first place). More importantly, if we are paying for the camo in question. It might as well look correct. Not like a half finished job (missing superstructure stripes, and all of them in the same thickness - as is visible that they were not). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[IRQ] AnotherDuck [IRQ] Players 2,930 posts 7,510 battles Report post #48 Posted September 25, 2016 I think the "paying for it" is one of the strongest arguments. Most of the game is free, but this is paid content. "Just mod it" is just crap in the face. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[2DQT] RUSSIANBlAS Players 8,241 posts Report post #49 Posted October 4, 2016 I think the "paying for it" is one of the strongest arguments. Most of the game is free, but this is paid content. "Just mod it" is just crap in the face. I guess... Since it isn't cheap. I plan to buy it as a reward for hitting Rank 1 which actually makes no sense if I've got there with 400+ Bismarck games as I won't benefit from the XP camo buff... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BONUS] Bellegar Beta Tester 1,866 posts Report post #50 Posted October 4, 2016 I guess... Since it isn't cheap. I plan to buy it as a reward for hitting Rank 1 which actually makes no sense if I've got there with 400+ Bismarck games as I won't benefit from the XP camo buff... You should buy it in advance... look at it as a loan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
