New to teir V

[Thracen]

Hi there, I've been really enjoying getting into wow, loved my IV DD's and CC's but now I'm in tier V I seem to have no impact at all. My DD's get spotted by aircraft and all I seem able to do as  CC is sit behind a battleship and hope someone gets within my much shorter range.

 

I watch a lot of youtube tutorials but I feel there must be something or a few things I'm missing. Any help would be really appreciated, I really don't want to throw in the towel yet.

[IntelligenceData]

No need to throw the towel m8. I just took a quick look at your profile,for someone with only 114 battles played you are doing exceptionally well

Tier 5s getting harsh MM most of the times but you will deal with it. Don't rush to quick to higher tiers is probably the best advice I can give you.

[ollonborre]

Tier 5 has become a lot trickier since the new matchmaking changes. DD's fair alright, especially japanese DD's that you play since they are very stealthy. Try to cap points first as they give you the highest amount of XP and put pressure on the enemy, and whenever possible fire your torpedoes at battleships. Basically try to stay hidden.

 

Cruisers are trickier. No point in staying with your battleships as a stock Omaha since you can't really help them with AA. Instead try to wolfpack. Follow your higher tier/same tier cruisers and try to move in a group. The Omaha is difficult however since your detection range is so huge, and you will often get focused because of your easy to hit citadel. But it does pack a lot of firepower and its guns are very well rounded for tier 5, as both the HE and AP can pose a threat to any ship in your tier range. 

 

I think that you should try and get the C hull as quickly as you can on the Omaha. You loose some guns but you do gain more range and better AA, so you can act more effectively as a fleet escort. In this new MM I think that this is not a bad choice. And as the above poster said, you are already doing pretty well for a new player, so hang in there.

[Thracen]

Great, thanks for the tips and encouragement guys. You've given me stuff to focus on and if I get really stuck I'll drop a tier for a breather.

[EsaTuunanen]

Tier IV is quite safe but Tier V ships now meet often Tier VIIs making them more demanding.

Like said stealth torpedo spamming IJN DDs do well even with harsher MM, but other ships can suffer more.

 

Anyway before taking new ship into battle, you want to always check effect of various available ship upgrades.

For example battleships usually get vastly improved AA defense from hull upgrades along more armor and there gun/range upgrades.

So before doing PvP battles in Tier V, you might want to play that battleships/cruiser some matches in PvE/Co-op for getting enough XP to research some of the ship upgrades.

And few matches in Co-op is always good idea when getting new style ship to learn its guns and handling:

Actually making that turn instead of ship colliding to ground surely saves from lots of frustration in PvP.

 

Other option is playing more at lower tiers or other ships to get enough free XP for some of those upgrades when getting new ships:

Normal XP is bound to ship used for getting it and only available for researching upgrades of that ship or stock hull of next possible ship in line. (or line opening from that ship)

Free XP again can be used for reasearching anything on any ship maknig it lot more useful.

But you get it only at rate of 5% compared to standard XP making it also lot harder to get.

So never waste free XP for researching next ship in line, but save it to those bigger improvement offering ship hull upgrades.

 

And then there are those upgrade modules bought with credits:

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Upgrades

[Thracen]

Is there a big difference between random battle and co-op exp/earnings? That's certainly a good tip, I did notice that there are some clearly key upgrades for some ships.

[thepuma2012]

yes, the difference is very big. much lower xp in co-op

[SinkTheOthersNotMe]

Always upgrade your ships first (play  coop if necessary).

 

since you seem to like playing CA/CL and DD, at tier 5-6:

German:

- nurnberg/konigsberg: very good CL, stay at max range, if possible fight while fleeing (2 turrets at the back) and of course never show broadside, you will do well with its high ROF

 

USSR:

- Ognevoi: A good DD, stay at max range (if possible a captain with AFT + DE) and rain HE shells on the enemy

- Gnevny: Good DD, stay at max range and rain HE shells, captain with AFT + DE + EM is better

- budyony: Great cruiser for starting fire with HE while angled at long range

- Kirov: Citadel city, always show your bow, stay at max range and rain AP on anything broadside and HE at angled BB

 

IJN:

- Minekaze - Mutsuki: Standard IJN stealth torping DD, avoid USN and USSR DD and sink BB

- Furutaka: Great IJN CA, you have 203mm guns no other nation has at this tier + workable torps, just do not show your broadside

- Aoba: Furutaka big brother

 

USN:

- Nicholas - Farragut: Great DD, workable torps but above all a great ROF, go DD hunting and remember to use smoke (when nobody can torp you) and then invisifire.

- Omaha/cleaveland: Great firestarter what more to say

 

 

Depending on your playstyle and preference, tier 5-6 have good to great ships.

Nicholas-farragut can easily play against tier 7 and still perform well to very well, other ships might suffer a bit but of course if you are bottom tier -> force yourself to let your higher tier teamates go first and then you support them.

 

 

 

 

[Thracen]

That's a great summary, reading that I think part of my problem is not knowing what I'm up against. I shall see how I fair with my new knowledge. It's great to know there is a community here to help out people getting stuck. I hope to be useful for when ranked opens up again and maybe mercenary my way onto a nice team.

[EsaTuunanen]

For cruisers Omaha is gunnery wise easy ship having guns on both sides, good fire rate and nice HE making it good for sinking destroyers and starting fires on bigger ships.

But protection wise it's more demanding against skilled opponents.

Omaha is vulnerable to any caliber HE shells with big unarmored area of bow, stern and deck.

And it has huge easy to hit citadel.

While on paper having armor matching Furutaka it's actually lot less protecting and even destroyer caliber AP shells can penetrate it easily from straight angle.

In fact Soviet 130mm AP citadels Omaha from over 9km range.

Meaning unangled Omaha is basically pinata for well played gunboat destroyers:

 

So Omaha should angle armor against anything firing AP and overall try to keep wiggling around to throw of aim of long range fire and be harder target...

Especially because 203mm and bigger APs always penetrate bow.

 

Against higher tier enemies you also need to be able to use your full gun range and know how to lead targets:

 

For battleships knowing gunnery is even more important because of slow fire rate making every shot/miss count.

Good thing is if you learn to lead using shell flight time that same lead works always for that same target.

Even if target distance can vary for 10s flight time necessary lead is always same no matter the ship you're playing.

 

Knowing how torpedo boat destroyers work also helps to play battleships because you know how to be harder target and what kind situations to avoid.

[SinkTheOthersNotMe]

Omaha has less range than her little brother phoenix and omaha is like murmansk hard to play to its full potential especially if bottom tier (this said omaha and murmansk well used can be amazing).

 

For someone who wants to do well at tier 5-6 even when bottom tier, I recommend the nicholas-farragut (captain with BFT + last stand + superintendent + DE + CE, BFT for faster reload so more dmg - last stand because you don't want to be a sitting duck - superintendent because you want more smoke to deal more dmg safely - DE to light more fires as you fire mainly HE - CE so you can be more sneaky especially against IJN DD)

 

All the other DD, CL need skills and might not fit everyone's playstyle.

[lup3s]

not everyone has a 15-point captain at T5 ;)

[EsaTuunanen]

USSR:

- Ognevoi: A good DD, stay at max range (if possible a captain with AFT + DE) and rain HE shells on the enemy

- Gnevny: Good DD, stay at max range and rain HE shells, captain with AFT + DE + EM is better

- budyony: Great cruiser for starting fire with HE while angled at long range

- Kirov: Citadel city, always show your bow, stay at max range and rain AP on anything broadside and HE at angled BB

Gnevny is stealthy enough to hunt destroyers.

It just needs good planning ahead to handle Furutaka fast gun traverse.

Also Soviet 130mm AP is good for citadelling side showing lighter armored cruisers at flat trajectory ranges. (actually its penetration is heavily nerfed from real ballistics)

With good aim half shape Omaha (like Phoenix and Kuma) goes down literally in two salvos/5 second before it can fire back if looking other way.

It's tier 7 Kiev where Soviet DDs really change to more like small cruisers... while finally getting better than cruisers gun traverse speed.

And if close enough torpedoes have strong punch and are fast.

 

In comparison USN destroyers have always the fastest turning guns with fastest fire rate.

But bad news is that starting from T5 Nicholas those guns have lousy ballistics.

Meaning it takes lot time for shells to fly to longer ranges causing need for lot bigger leading of target making hitting especially smaller and maneuvering targets harder.

Though for close range brawling it's the ultimate DD of its tier like Clemson:

With way fastest gun traverse and two triple torpedo launchers on both sides of the ship allowing to fire 12 torps in short time.

That torpedo layout is also best for torpedoing ships coming past islands or for ambushing and rushing two battleships at same time.

 

 

And its now Omaha which is that floating citadel of Tier 5 to almost any enemy seeing its side.

Since overballasting buff couple months ago Kirov's citadel is hard to hit for smaller caliber APs unable to penetrate water easily.

Also while Omaha with its 35 knot design speed got slowed down to 34 knots Kirov basically has no weaponry&load trial speed allowing it to more easily corner destroyers in later game.

(destroyer has lot easier time running away with 3-4 knot speed advantage over cruiser than with half of that)

[Sub_Eleven]

I would just like to add that from tier 5 on the battleships get a lot better compared to cruisers for example. Ships like the Kongo, Bayern and Fuso become a serious threat for cruisers. The horrible dispersion from the lowest tiers is manageable now and battleships are able to delete broadsiding cruisers in one volley if rng is on their side.

 

The safest "training wheels" you can use to get familiar with all the enemy ships are the IJN destroyers. There will be lots and lots of battleships in every game due to the recently launched german battleship line. As you noticed though, plane spotting can be very annoying if you end up in a game with 2 carriers. Just remember that planes also spot your torpedoes, so if a plane is hovering over you its pretty much pointless to fire torpedoes as they will be insta spotted for the entire enemy team.

[Thracen]

i can report I have been making some progress in my IJN DD, I think I might move to the BB classes once the royal navy CC line comes out when the ques aren't flooded with German BBs.

[CavScorpion_2014]

i can report I have been making some progress in my IJN DD, I think I might move to the BB classes once the royal navy CC line comes out when the ques aren't flooded with German BBs.

 

Lot of fun to be in a Minekaze right now with all the scrubs grinding the German BB line, yesterday was a target rich environment indeed :-)

 

Sadly, the Minnie is the last IJN DD I feel is playable with the recent nerfs, I've always preferred Cruisers and the occasional sortie in my Lexington myself. However the damn carriers are feeling a little useless right now, and I've actually been enjoying a bit more BB brawling of late.

 

In the end - loads to choose from in the game, it's come a long way in a year no matter what some people might say and you will find a lot of helpful stuff on the forum amidst the moans ;-)

[SinkTheOthersNotMe]

CV useless? Well go ask some very good CV players and I can assure you a good CV player can still ruin your game no matter which ship you are driving.

 

IJN DD: Fubuki is a beast, though I started badly I now am getting better with it (48k dmg average only though) and whenever I have a bad game I then jump in my fubuki, mix of good torps + good guns + amazing concealment = unbeatable, so no IJN DD were not nerfed that much....but yes I suck in the minekaze.

 

 

 

 

[EsaTuunanen]

Just remember that planes also spot your torpedoes, so if a plane is hovering over you its pretty much pointless to fire torpedoes as they will be insta spotted for the entire enemy team.

Up to Tier V IJN DD torpedo reload is fast enough that it's better to fire those torps unless there's clearly better target coming really fast or planes are flying away from you.

Unlaunched torpedo has no damage chances all and you never know if enemies are paying attention.

And instead of firing all at lead indicator it's possible to spread them to cover directions where enemy might turn.

Three separate launchers of Isokaze/Minekaze are excellent for that.

 

And torps in water can distract people from shooting you.

[CavScorpion_2014]

CV useless? Well go ask some very good CV players and I can assure you a good CV player can still ruin your game no matter which ship you are driving.

 

IJN DD: Fubuki is a beast, though I started badly I now am getting better with it (48k dmg average only though) and whenever I have a bad game I then jump in my fubuki, mix of good torps + good guns + amazing concealment = unbeatable, so no IJN DD were not nerfed that much....but yes I suck in the minekaze.

 

 

 

 

Come on dude, what's with the flame?

 

I said: "feel a little" (An impression)..... that's a far cry from "CV's are useless' (definitive statement)

 

Mostly due to the MM - T8 Lex against a T9/T10 field solo, the AA cover is hard to work against, not impossible, but bloody hard.

 

Regarding IJN DD nerf - I'll stick with the stats which are widely published, I guess I do better with the Minnie due to opposition at that tier, you can carry a match with it when needed, I don't find that higher up - though I'm far from a DD specialist so I will state - just a feeling, though the stats back it up.

 

Fubuki btw - bottom of the results in its tier/class

 

https://eu.warships.today/vehicle/4287510224/Fubuki

 

Also a great post about how ineffective it was in ranked with some very detailed descriptions on why in the ranked thread.

[DarthDon49]

For Japanese DD's, I like the Hatsuharu and Minikaze the best. The Tachibana can be a lot of fun, too.

[Thracen]

OK chaps, I'm making slow progress with the Japanese DDS but the Omaha just makes no sense to me. It is too slow to doge air dropped torps and doesn't have the AA to defend against it. It doesn't have the range to sit behind a battle ship and it gets spotted at a distance further than it can shoot. I've tried running with a pack of CCs but it just looks like lunch to all these German BBs. The only tactic I've found is to do very very little and wait for the enemy to be less patient that you, which is not my idea of fun. 

 

Does it get better after the Omaha? or should I just give up this role entirely? Again I throw myself on the mercy of you kind souls.

[EsaTuunanen]

Omaha, like most cruisers should easily be able to dodge at least automatic torpedo drops.

Though with current MM making Tier 5 often bottom tier Omaha is now rather weak ship untill upgraded and being post WW1 design A-hull has bad AA.

So upgrading it is very important.

C-hull also gives more much needed range.

 

Another thing in Omaha is its huge citadel so be carefull about showing side to gunboat destroyers:

And naturally cruiser guns will just smash it.

 

 

Tier VI Cleveland is very different ship with WW2 design.

It has in practise completely submerged citadel with thick armor for cruiser making it durable against any smaller APs with citadel missing higher penetration APs overpenning rest of the ship.

On the other hand that ship takes HE damage easily because of light construction.

For guns it has 12 fast reloading 152mm guns in four turrets. I think their ballistics is slightly worser meaning you need to learn to lead to use them effectively.

AA defense on it is again strong and with AA barrage it will swat down lots of planes if they make the mistake of attacking/flying over. (save barrage for attack squads)

 

Tier VII Pensacola is again vey hard ship to play.

While 203mm guns have good trajectory and punch their fire rate basically drops to half of upgraded Cleveland.

And it has weak citadel armor along with battleship like detectability making it the focus point of enemy if trying to go first.

It should basically keep with BBs or use islands as cover.

[HMS_Antelope]

Hi

 

Some great advice so far, there are some good premium ships at T5 if that's something your looking at.  Great for credits and crew xp, if you like the US line the Texas and Marblehead are good.

 

I see so many players showing there broadsides in game, I actually feel bad some times at the start of a match when players turn in front of a cap and then receive multiple citadel hits and it's really difficult if your very low health to have an impact or probably enjoy the game so for me it's think ahead, maximise your ship strengths and carry on what your doing.

[Thracen]

I think the reason why I really don't get on with the Omaha is that I can't see any strong points, when a gunboat dd is a bit of a fight and angling only stops citadels as opposed to pens. The only real play style advice I've found is the roam in groups which can be applied to any ship. Even this isn't effective because among any group the Omaha will be singled out by good players as the best first target and the amount of damage you can practically add is negligible when grouped with a couple of good BBs;

 

My best Omaha games go like this: group up, get singled out and flee while angled and maneuvering. This draws in enemy ships that get to focused on me and makes easy food for BBs. This play style nets me little in exp or currency because I can't cap points or return fire well. Effectively I'm trading my small and vulnerable health pool to keep My BBs confident and healthy which doesn't feel quite right. Yes I make a big difference when I pick of IJN DD but those are rare moments.

 

I am enjoying the game, especially in my little dds but it does seem like the exp/earnings system is tilted towards the other classes and away from cruisers. BBs do big damage earning that way while dds cap and get the odd good torp hit. Whats the equivalent for a CC?

[mikelight1805]

Hi OP. I haven't played the Omaha since the game came out, but i do play the Murmansk and Marblehead regularly. I find the best thing to do with these light scout cruisers is to try and hang back and play a supporting role with HE spam. These ships have a high rate of fire, have guns on both sides, so even with the most violent manoeuvring you can still bring a lot of guns to bear in a short period of time. I always stay with other cruisers, and try to ensure there is some one or something between me and enemy. If i am the nearest thing to the enemy i always try to sail at a 30 to 45 degree angle to ensure i am a difficult target to hit. keep up a barrage of HE, after a couple of fires i find most enemies will get bored and try shooting at something else. I find the AP can be quite devastating at close range against broadside cruisers. and don't forget you have the torps in reserve if anyone gets too close. Once you can get through to the enemy battleships you can do very well with fire damage!

 

If you like playing cruisers, but are struggling with the US line, i found good results with the German line, A tactic with them that i find works is to sail directly away from enemies and use the rear bias of fire power as mentioned above. AP works well on the Germans, as the shell arc is very favourable for this.

 

With any cruiser though it is always important to remember to disengage if the fight isn't favourable to you. you have a decent amount of speed and i find disengaging briefly will allow me a bit of breathing space to re-access  what threats and what targets need priority. If you focus too heavily on one target and stay on one course, you will find the better players will focus you, as you are an easy citadel!

 

Don't stay committed to a losing fight unless you are resetting a cap or something critical like that

 

Best of luck, and i hope you find a ship you do well in.