Armor Penetration Curves

[fnord_disc]

The work in this thread is based on this thread and this reddit thread. Both those threads explain how the curves are obtained, so please keep that discussion out of this thread. If you still have questions after reading those two, please ask me via PM. Here is a little bit about overpenetrations.

 

If you want to do these calculations yourself, here is the source code. The linked source code is an updated version of the one used to generate the curves in this thread. The results are not identical, but the linked source is more accurate.

 

I will start this thread off by reposting all curves already generated by me in the past, but now that we have moved out of the experimentation stage, I feel like more curves do not need experiments. Therefore:

 

Request a ship and I will edit this post with the penetration curve over distance!

 

To show you what this looks like, I will add the German ships at the bottom.

 

Arizona / New York / Texas

 

Budyonny / Kutuzov / Chapayev / Shchors

 

Cleveland

 

Kongo / Fuso

 

Moskva

 

Furutaka / Aoba / Myoko / Mogami / Ibuki

 

New Orleans / Pensacola / Indianapolis

 

USN 12.7 (higher tiers)

 

Zao

 

Hatsuharu / Fubuki / Kagero / Shimakaze

Edited December 21, 2016 by fnord_disc

[fnord_disc]

Scharnhorst

 

Kaiser / König

 

Bayern

 

Warspite

 

Gneisenau / Bismarck / Tirpitz

 

Iowa / Montana

 

Friedrich Der Große / Großer Kurfürst 406mm

 

Friedrich Der Große / Großer Kurfürst 420mm

 

Hipper / Roon / Hindenburg / Prinz Eugen

 

Baltimore / Des Moines

Edited August 28, 2016 by fnord_disc

[Carnivore81]

Actually Montana and GK Would be nice. 

THX Btw

[fnord_disc]

Nagato / Amagi

 

Izumo

 

Colorado

 

Wyoming

 

Ishizuchi

 

Yamato

 

Nikolai I

 

Kirov

 

Molotov / Dmitri Donskoi

 

New Mexico

Edited August 28, 2016 by fnord_disc

[fnord_disc]

North Carolina / Alabama / South Dakota

 

Dunkerque

 

Nassau

 

Königsberg / Nürnberg

 

Yorck

 

Katori / Tenryu / Kuma / Iwaki A / Yubari / Kitakami / Nagato (secondaries) / Amagi (secondaries)

 

Gnevny, Ognevoi, Kiev, Udaloi, Tashkent, Khabarovsk, Udaloi, Blyska, Mogami 155mm

HERE

 

Perth, Belfast, Leander, Fiji, Edinburgh, Neptune, Minotaur

HERE

 

Akizuki

HERE

 

Spee

HERE

 

COMPARISONS

 

Arizona, Fuso, Warspite, Mutsu, Bayern, Nagato

HERE

 

Bismarck, Amagi, North Carolina

HERE

 

Gaede, Maass, Z-23, Z-26, Z-52, USN DD

HERE

Edited January 8 by fnord_disc

[mtm78]

This might be a 'weird' request, but what if I don't have any actually specific ship but rather would like to be able to look up every ship in the game? I don't want to request you to just go down each tech tree as I don't want to burden you with to much work...

 

edit: 

 

Also, this topic is more likely to get pinned in the 'Newcomers' section then in 'Gameplay'. The former is where all the informative 'tutorials' reside, and this would fit in nicely imo. 

Edited August 19, 2016 by mtm78

[avenger121]

Indeed this thread needs to be stickied.

 

OP, pen values from WG´s North Carolina armada vid: 622 @ 5km, 563 @ 10km, 479 @ 15km.

Also your Zao chart: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/58289-disappointed-with-zao-ap/page__pid__1201895#entry1201895

 

 

 

[fnord_disc]

This might be a 'weird' request, but what if I don't have any actually specific ship but rather would like to be able to look up every ship in the game? I don't want to request you to just go down each tech tree as I don't want to burden you with to much work...

 

edit: 

 

Also, this topic is more likely to get pinned in the 'Newcomers' section then in 'Gameplay'. The former is where all the informative 'tutorials' reside, and this would fit in nicely imo. 

 

Hopefully the mod will move it, then.

 

To be able to look up any ship in the game, a web dev has to design a front end around my formula (which I will give to anybody). He can then either make a database with the shell constants and generate the curves dynamically with Java or something or pre-generate them.

 

I hate website dev, so I will definitely not do this myself.

 

Indeed this thread needs to be stickied.

 

OP, pen values from WG´s North Carolina armada vid: 622 @ 5km, 563 @ 10km, 479 @ 15km.

Also your Zao chart: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/58289-disappointed-with-zao-ap/page__pid__1201895#entry1201895

 

I'll edit the Zao in above.

 

I'm about 95% sure that WG made a mistake when they published the NoCal penetration data for the 5km distance because there is not way to fit that point into a decay curve, whatever you try to do. The other two points at 10 and 15km are fine, but I don't want to confuse readers by including a spurious dataset.

[duoinvasion]

The 90° impact angle is hitting the bow and 0° impact is hitting broadside? Or do I have it backwards?

[VC381]

Hi, excellent work! Would it be possible to get the curves for Warspite, even better on the same graph as Bayern? Thanks!

[fnord_disc]

The 90° impact angle is hitting the bow and 0° impact is hitting broadside? Or do I have it backwards?

 

90° means the shell hits perfectly "broadside", so to say, and with impact angle is also broadside but including the angle of descent of the shell at the end of its ballistic curve and including internally angled armor (but set to unangled in these plots).

 

Hi, excellent work! Would it be possible to get the curves for Warspite, even better on the same graph as Bayern? Thanks!

 

Yes, but not in the same plot.

[Ictogan]

Could you also make these for deck armor penetration? Would be particularily interested in the North Carolina.

[fnord_disc]

Could you also make these for deck armor penetration? Would be particularily interested in the North Carolina.

 

I can, but I have to add an additional function to the script because right now this only calculates for belt armor. It's very little work, though, and I'll add a deck armor plot for NoCal later this evening.

[Ictogan]

 

I can, but I have to add an additional function to the script because right now this only calculates for belt armor. It's very little work, though, and I'll add a deck armor plot for NoCal later this evening.

 

Also another question, are you accounting for normalization? If not the deck armor penetration graph would probably end up rather inaccurate.

[fnord_disc]

 

Also another question, are you accounting for normalization? If not the deck armor penetration graph would probably end up rather inaccurate.

 

The belt armor: No.

 

But your deck armor: Yes ;-)

 

[removed because it was inaccurate] Edited August 31, 2016 by fnord_disc

[alkiap]

Very interesting info, definitely needs to be stickied.

I looked up some examples and the ones calculated above are quite close, if not almost identical, to real life known or calculated data (for example the 38cm gun of Bismark, which had a 510mm penetration at 10km,and also the US 8"/55). Makes since, singe WG would have to use real data at least as a basis for their penetrationg algorithms

The value mentioned for the North Carolina on the other hand seems to be quite inferior to the real life values

Range

Range	Side Armor	Deck Armor	Striking Velocity	Angle of Fall
0 yards (0 m)	29.74" (755 mm)	---	2,300 fps (701 mps)	0.0
5,000 yards (4,572 m)	26.60" (676 mm)	0.76" (19 mm)	2,090 fps (637 mps)	3.0
10,000 yards (9,144 m)	23.51" (597 mm)	1.87" (28 mm)	1,900 fps (579 mps)	6.8
15,000 yards (13,716 m)	20.47" (520 mm)	3.04" (77 mm)	1,743 fps (529 mps)	11.7
20,000 yards (18,288 m)	17.62" (448 mm)	4.29" (109 mm)	1,604 fps (489 mps)	17.9
25,000 yards (22,860 m)	15.05" (382 mm)	5.76" (146 mm)	1,521 fps (463 mps)	25.4
30,000 yards (27,432 m)	12.77" (324 mm)	7.62" (194 mm)	1,490 fps (454 mps)	34.1
35,000 yards (32,004 m)	10.49" (266 mm)	10.57" (268 mm)	1,531 fps (488 mps)	45.2

[DominusEdwardius]

How do the IJN 127mm gun AP compare with the USN 127mm's and the VMF 130mm (both high tier ones)?

Edited August 19, 2016 by DominusEdwardius

[Woofbark]

Would like to see the German cruisers AP, can you do one for Roon? Also how would you account for angled armour? Is it like WoT where you simply increase the effective armour as a result of the angle? Would be nice to be able to work out how close you have to be to pen at different angles. 

[Woofbark]

So you have to be 18km away to deck pen someone, do we have mathematical proof of why the game encourages people to snipe?

[Ictogan]

 

The belt armor: No.

 

But your deck armor: Yes ;-)

 

 

 

Jump because anything shorter is autobounce.

 

Thanks.

Seems kinda weird to me though, once got a citadel on a Tirpitz at ~16km. Don't know how that would be possible without using plunging fire, but according to the graph it would be impossible.Think I'm gonna do some testing in training room regarding this.

Also, as a minor nitpick, that graph should start at 28mm due to overmatch.

[mtm78]

 

Thanks.

Seems kinda weird to me though, once got a citadel on a Tirpitz at ~16km. Don't know how that would be possible without using plunging fire, but according to the graph it would be impossible.Think I'm gonna do some testing in training room regarding this.

Also, as a minor nitpick, that graph should start at 28mm due to overmatch.

 

That would depend on exact armor layout at the point of impact no? Currently it's almost impossible for us to properly judge some of the in game behavior since we don't have access to all the data needed. Also, Tirpitz armor was 'bugged' before, it has been fixed ( turtledeck for front turrets was extended I think, there was a gap before ). 

[fnord_disc]

 

Thanks.

Seems kinda weird to me though, once got a citadel on a Tirpitz at ~16km. Don't know how that would be possible without using plunging fire, but according to the graph it would be impossible.Think I'm gonna do some testing in training room regarding this.

Also, as a minor nitpick, that graph should start at 28mm due to overmatch.

 

This is with the new normalization. Old NoCal had more normalization and normalization makes a big difference for deck pen.

 

But at 16km it might just be the thin upper belt and then through the citadel roof, which is only about 150 angled upper belt + 100 flat citadel roof = maybe 400 or so including the angling and NoCal still has about 450 at that range. At shorter ranges this gives you autobounce on the citadel = penetration damage.

 

Tirpitz's salami armor makes it hard to tell which areas you penetrated exactly to get the damage that you go.

[SCFighterr]

At close range the German 40,6 cm Guns have better penetration than the 420mm guns?

Am i reading this right, or am i missing something?

Edited August 19, 2016 by SCFighterr

[fnord_disc]

At close range the German 40,6 cm Guns have better penetration than the 420mm guns?

Am i reading this right, or am i missing something?

 

That's correct. Higher velocity and better krupp values (thanks, WG) are greater than the higher weight of the 420.

 

The overmatch mechanic means that the 420 might subjectively feel like they have more penetration to you, but in terms of pure broadside armor penetration, they are inferior at most ranges.

Edited August 19, 2016 by fnord_disc

[SCFighterr]

 

That's correct. Higher velocity and better krupp values (thanks, WG) are greater than the higher weight of the 420.

 

The overmatch mechanic means that the 420 might subjectively feel like they have more penetration to you, but in terms of pure broadside armor penetration, they are inferior at most ranges.

 

I dont know what do say about this