British Cruisers

[kbb07142]

1st off I hope the new British light cruisers are nothing like the shitlanta.

 

I would love them to be somewhere between the kutuzov and russian DD's

Size & health, Gun range, Manoeuvrability, AA etc should be inbetween the two of thse

 

Radar.

The british had probably the best radar in the world at that time so it would be a travesty if the cruisers did not get it.

 

Smoke

This one i am kind of iffy on. I think it would work perfectly on them but really the light cruisers are supposed to be fleet escorts and chasing down destroyers or providing AA cover. Maybe I am wrong but i just could not see them producing a smoke screen to cover a convoy...or maybe they did, I am not an expert on naval warfare in WW2 lol

Without the smoke though i just cant see how these cruisers are going to work. You need the smoke to get out of trouble. They will have no armour to speak off and probably low health too. 

 

AA

In order to make them not OP they should have the lowest health out of any cruiser and one of the worst, if not the worst AA rating for any cruiser.

 

Torps & Concealment

I have put these two together because WG has to be careful that with the right equipment and skills, the cruisers are not able to stealth torp.

For the tier 8 cruiser (which is where you get the 1st concealment equipment correct?) I would like the lowest the detection rating can get to, to be around 10-11km.

The torp range would be around 8-9km, with around 55 knots speed, average detection ability & damage.

 

Guns (Range)

The tier 8 should have around a 17km detection range (however WG should be careful that they are not able to stealth fire). The tiers 9 & 10 could get the equipment that increases this and so they would be able to stealth fire...hell if a zao & ibuki can stealth fire than so can these. 

 

Their role should be

1) To use their speed and radar to catch and kill enemy DD's 

2) To use their small size and manoeuvrability to avoid getting hit at by long range fire by enemy battleships and cruisers.

3) To use smoke to get out of any problems, or sit in the smoke and stealth fire battleships and use their torps to nail anything trying to catch them in the smoke.

 

 

 

Now people may say that they will completely negate DD's and that is kind of a yes and no answer.

Russian DD's will still be smaller, more manoeuvrable, stealthier and with the right captain perk about the same gun range. And while they have less health, they also cant be citadel hit. So while the light cruisers will have better guns than the russian DD's, they will be more susceptible to being hit (and citadeled).

Stealth torping DD's will still be able to stealth torp but you will just have to be careful not to get too close to the UK cruisers.

However. towards the end game, DD's will not be able to sail around completely undetected, ninja torping battleships with no chance of ever being found

 

So where as everyone says the russian DD's are small cruisers I would like to see the british light cruisers as big destroyers.

 

Thoughts?

 

[Captain_Singleton]

let me guess, you play DD's??

[Psychocouac]

And then, the great whinning storm of our time begin.

 

Thank you for your wishlist. I m sure WG care a lot.

[kbb07142]

let me guess, you play DD's??

 

They are my 3rd most played class

 

Cruisers are 1st

Battleships 2nd

& Carriers 4th

 

But I am really loving the russian DD's...not so much the jap ones anymore.

Used to love the Lo Yang but people know how to counter that now

[dasCKD]

I have my doubts about the British cruisers. No doubt they'll be good cruisers, but they aren't really the weapons that are really needed in the current Warships climate. Their low gun caliber means that they will suffer from less visibility penalty than their heavy cruiser counterparts and so they probably can stealth fire or bombard HE very well, but there are ships that already excel at that in the game. Their gun caliber isn't large and so they'll get ripped to shreds if they tried close range engagements where cruiser AP starts to become really lethal, and they have torpedoes but history (in game that is) has proven than ship launched torpedoes are far from consistent weapons.

 

Having radar is certainly a plus and I welcome it in the current environment, though what it would be useful for I am not certain. They would make very good destroyer hunters, but all of the existing cruisers already have something that would make them good at their roles. The IJN has ships so stealthy that DDs can barely turn around in time when they spot the cruisers before they get one salvoed by IJN HE. The USN has radar and that machine gun terror at tier 10. The Germans basically have DD immunity with their radar range hydroacoustics. The Russians also have radar and very flat gun arcs.

 

The new threats are the fast and very tough KM BBs and the blisteringly fast and irritating Russian DDs. The British ships could use their torpedoes to deal with the KM, but there are ships that fulfill those roles already. Same goes with the Russian DDs. They may be irritating, but they get caught out once by a Zao or a Hiddenburg then those cruisers just need to decloak and then send the Stalinium bathtubs to rest with the corals and the fishes. The British cruisers are unique to be sure, but as for what they can do I'm not sure. I would still say that they should still get good AA, but good in a different way to the offensive USN and KM AA. They should have very good range to cover battleships and short cooldown on their defensive fire but their AA DPS should be low. This way they won't be able to withstand a CV on their own, but they can support their fleet in a big way. It would also reflect the historical status of the British as the US's allies and hence a user of a large number of their technologies.

 

This could blend well with smoke. They can have large radius but short lasting smoke screen to cover their fleet. This would give them a very unique and yet a very important role that destroyers aren't able to fulfill in their current state as they need to heavily contest caps and attack enemy ships to keep the enemy team at bay. This means that despite their smaller guns they are able to stay with the fleet and do good work there. If they survive long into the battle, they can then use that smoke to both aggressively push the enemies back to allow the allies to advance and they can also deny areas using a very nasty combination of radar, torpedoes, and rapid firing guns.

[dasCKD]

On their visibility though, they're quite short so they won't be very easy to detect which suits low health ships just fine. Also, there are cruisers that can stealth torp: the Mogami, the Ibuki, and the Iwaki are all part of this subset IIRC. Also, no cruiser at tier 8 should have a 17km detection range. That's far too crippling for anything but the pseudo battleships like the Hindenburg, the Roon, or the Moskva.

[Psychocouac]

View PostDarth_Glorious, on 19 August 2016 - 12:22 AM, said:

- FdG turret hit point is still 20.000.

- Only GK turret hit point is buffed to 40.000

- RN tier X Minotaur infos :

+ 2 x 5 152 mm guns, ROF = 15 rpm, AP dmg = 3200, HE dmg = 2200, fire chance = 11%, max range = 15,8 km

+ Detectability range by sea = 11,5 km

+ Using Des Moines radar and sonar (same characteristics). You have to choose between Smoke screen and Radar.

+ 2 x 4 533 mm torpedoes, 62 kt, range 10 km

- RN CL line is basically a full Atlanta/Flint line without Defensive fire consumable.

 

 

No defensive fire atm.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

they not even in game so what u can know

[kbb07142]

On their visibility though, they're quite short so they won't be very easy to detect which suits low health ships just fine. Also, there are cruisers that can stealth torp: the Mogami, the Ibuki, and the Iwaki are all part of this subset IIRC. Also, no cruiser at tier 8 should have a 17km detection range. That's far too crippling for anything but the pseudo battleships like the Hindenburg, the Roon, or the Moskva.

 

Not sure about the Iwaki, but the others cant really stealth torp, with every stealth skill and equipment taken you have like 0.5km before you are detected.

 

Also i did not mean a base 17km detection range, but when firing, and even then it could be less. Is the Mogami able to stealth fire? The last time i played that ship it was so much fun but then they nerfed it  

But even 17km range could be too much so make it 15km or even 14km but the guns only have a 15 or 14km range. (Does the mogami's guns only have a 14km range now? Wow WG hated that ship lol

 

[kbb07142]

View PostDarth_Glorious, on 19 August 2016 - 12:22 AM, said:

- FdG turret hit point is still 20.000.

- Only GK turret hit point is buffed to 40.000

- RN tier X Minotaur infos :

+ 2 x 5 152 mm guns, ROF = 15 rpm, AP dmg = 3200, HE dmg = 2200, fire chance = 11%, max range = 15,8 km

+ Detectability range by sea = 11,5 km

+ Using Des Moines radar and sonar (same characteristics). You have to choose between Smoke screen and Radar.

+ 2 x 4 533 mm torpedoes, 62 kt, range 10 km

- RN CL line is basically a full Atlanta/Flint line without Defensive fire consumable.

 

 

No defensive fire atm.

 

Like everything about this apart from having to chose between Radar and smoke.

Let me have both and it could be something fun and different.

[Psychocouac]

they not even in game so what u can know

 

I have sekret dokument. 

 

Nop, It come from reliable source that used to feed us with accurate informations even if i dont know where these informations come from. 

[Psychocouac]

 

Like everything about this apart from having to chose between Radar and smoke.

Let me have both and it could be something fun and different.

 

If i read correctly you cant have radar + smoke but you can have smoke + sonar which is far more useful in combo i think. 

[Vogel]

View PostDarth_Glorious, on 19 August 2016 - 12:22 AM, said:

- FdG turret hit point is still 20.000.

- Only GK turret hit point is buffed to 40.000

- RN tier X Minotaur infos :

+ 2 x 5 152 mm guns, ROF = 15 rpm, AP dmg = 3200, HE dmg = 2200, fire chance = 11%, max range = 15,8 km

+ Detectability range by sea = 11,5 km

+ Using Des Moines radar and sonar (same characteristics). You have to choose between Smoke screen and Radar.

+ 2 x 4 533 mm torpedoes, 62 kt, range 10 km

- RN CL line is basically a full Atlanta/Flint line without Defensive fire consumable.

 

 

No defensive fire atm.

 

Can I have the source of that post please? Got curious as to what else is mentioned there :3

[Ictogan]

Whatever they do with the british CLs, I really hope that they won't get smoke. Smoke on cruisers is way too OP in the hands of good players imo, especially if the RN CLs will have good concealment.

And anyone having played at high ranks in the last ranked season or in high level team battles/clan vs clan battles knows what kind of meta smoke causes in a competitive environment. And I really wouldn't want that to become even worse.

[dasCKD]

Whatever they do with the british CLs, I really hope that they won't get smoke. Smoke on cruisers is way too OP in the hands of good players imo, especially if the RN CLs will have good concealment.

And anyone having played at high ranks in the last ranked season or in high level team battles/clan vs clan battles knows what kind of meta smoke causes in a competitive environment. And I really wouldn't want that to become even worse.

 

I still believe that it will bring something unique to the battle. They could be given lazy USN heavy cruiser arcs at longer ranges. With their smoke and radar however, they could become the ultimate support ship. They may not earn much from damage, but they'll give the SN a run for their money and the spotting and possibly the cloacking XP in the future. It might also necessitate interesting changes to spotting and smoke mechanics.

[XbodzioXplX]

1st off I hope the new British light cruisers are nothing like the shitlanta.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Atlanta is very solid ship. Not solid in armor but in what she can do on the battlefield.

And I like when someone complain on her while cannot use her properly.

 

Oh wait - you do not have her

[Psychocouac]

 

Can I have the source of that post please? Got curious as to what else is mentioned there :3

 

It's This post.

[Ictogan]

 

I still believe that it will bring something unique to the battle. They could be given lazy USN heavy cruiser arcs at longer ranges. With their smoke and radar however, they could become the ultimate support ship. They may not earn much from damage, but they'll give the SN a run for their money and the spotting and possibly the cloacking XP in the future. It might also necessitate interesting changes to spotting and smoke mechanics.

 

They will do little damage? Don't be ridiculous, smoke is the strongest consumable for doing damage in the game. Or do you just mean that they would get lower XP coefficients for doing damage? In which case it still won't stop them from dominating games way more than other cruisers in the hands of good players.

[kbb07142]

Whatever they do with the british CLs, I really hope that they won't get smoke. Smoke on cruisers is way too OP in the hands of good players imo, especially if the RN CLs will have good concealment.

And anyone having played at high ranks in the last ranked season or in high level team battles/clan vs clan battles knows what kind of meta smoke causes in a competitive environment. And I really wouldn't want that to become even worse.

 

Yes and No its OP

 

The problem WOWS is having right now is that tier 8+ (or even 7+ in some cases) just sucks.

Its so bloody boring. Having battleships sit back at 20km+ away and try snipe the enemy, and if you wander slightly to far from your own team then you die.

 

Smoke on the high tier cruisers would allow for some more aggressive plays.

Having say 15km range on your guns would force you to close the distance and then use smoke.

You would have to take risky moves to get into medium-short range, pop smoke and then hope your team can do enough damage to the enemy that by the time your smoke clears you wont be insta-nuked by an awaiting yamato :p

 

But this is what i think is needed right now at the higher tiers.

I have had the Ibuki and Isumo unlocked for ages now. (The Ibuki i unlocked like 2 weeks after the closed beta finished) and I still dont have a tier 10 because I just cant suffer any more games sitting at the back of the map trying to hit enemy ships 20km away.

 

I also want the smoke + radar combo because the smoke + sonar is something the Lo Yang already has and when they release the german DD's is something they will probably get too.

The smoke + sonar combo is more useful for close range knife fights of the DD's

Where the smoke + radar is more suited to the mid-short range of the light cruisers.

 

Could the smoke + radar be OP?

Absolutely

A battleship chasing down a cruiser with smoke and radar. In a 1v1 I will run away from you and wait until you get to within 9km. Pop smoke and radar and invisa-fire you and if you get too close, launch torps, and there is nothing you can do...oh except use your brain and not run at a cruiser in smoke, but that is too much for most players lol 

[kbb07142]

 

Atlanta is very solid ship. Not solid in armor but in what she can do on the battlefield.

And I like when someone complain on her while cannot use her properly.

 

Oh wait - you do not have her

 

When they 1st released her I thought she was OP as hell and almost did buy it.

 

Then i realised I had "A" and "D" keys and suddenly she stopped being OP.

 

I dont even know what she is supposed to do. Jingles once said she was a good DD killer so I think most people try to play her like that. Honestly whenever i am in a DD and I see a atlanta on the other team I think "oh nice free damage".

 

Seriously what is she good at?

She cant hit anything at range so needs to get in close but if she gets in close she gets blown out of the water because her entire ship is made of citadels.

She can hide behind islands and shoot...but not hit anything

And even if she does hit she only has 127mm guns, I could not care less

[Ictogan]

 

Yes and No its OP

 

The problem WOWS is having right now is that tier 8+ (or even 7+ in some cases) just sucks.

Its so bloody boring. Having battleships sit back at 20km+ away and try snipe the enemy, and if you wander slightly to far from your own team then you die.

 

Smoke on the high tier cruisers would allow for some more aggressive plays.

Having say 15km range on your guns would force you to close the distance and then use smoke.

You would have to take risky moves to get into medium-short range, pop smoke and then hope your team can do enough damage to the enemy that by the time your smoke clears you wont be insta-nuked by an awaiting yamato :p

 

But this is what i think is needed right now at the higher tiers.

I have had the Ibuki and Isumo unlocked for ages now. (The Ibuki i unlocked like 2 weeks after the closed beta finished) and I still dont have a tier 10 because I just cant suffer any more games sitting at the back of the map trying to hit enemy ships 20km away.

 

Let's look at that from the perspective from the awaiting Yamato:

- british CL pops up 9-12km away(we don't know their concealment yet)

- CL pops smoke, starts firing at you

- You can't fire back and the only way you can prevent him from completely wrecking you is to run away unless there is a nearby cruiser with radar

-> surely this will make aggressive play more viable in high tier........ lol nope

And trust me when I say that aggressive play is very much already possible in high tiers. But you have to know when to play aggressively and when to play defensively.

 

 

I also want the smoke + radar combo because the smoke + sonar is something the Lo Yang already has and when they release the german DD's is something they will probably get too.

The smoke + sonar combo is more useful for close range knife fights of the DD's

Where the smoke + radar is more suited to the mid-short range of the light cruisers.

 

Could the smoke + radar be OP?

Absolutely

A battleship chasing down a cruiser with smoke and radar. In a 1v1 I will run away from you and wait until you get to within 9km. Pop smoke and radar and invisa-fire you and if you get too close, launch torps, and there is nothing you can do...oh except use your brain and not run at a cruiser in smoke, but that is too much for most players lol 

 

First, smoke + radar would be OP. Look at the current cruisers that have smoke, none of them has radar nor a fighter plane. This was likely done this way to make sure they have to rely on allies for spotting and can't just spot the enemy themselves while not being spotted.

Second, sorry, but how is a BB supposed to avoid running into a cruiser? With the exception of Iowa any high tier cruiser is strictly faster than any high tier battleship and almost all cruisers are more stealthy.

[ShinGetsu]

So, 4 seconds reload for the tier 10, with smoke. Short gun range but the 16% upgrade will allows 17km range.

Now we're talking ! I'm definitely interested.

The torps are good too.

 

Probably good AA, but no defensive fire. Which is a good thing, CV doesn't need more AA-cruisers in the game atm.

[XbodzioXplX]

Seriously what is she good at?

 

As you said: killing DD is just a pure fun! 2-3 salvos and its gone.

 

The rest?

She can escort BBs (DD and AA protection) and it should be her top job (while random games are without cooperation from players I do not do this).

She is a big "go away" sign to DDs (since she has radar this sign is now bigger)

Spamming shells makes BBs and CA change their course.

She can makes fires but not a lot of them, yet they help to make some dmg.

 

Yes - her shells over 9-10 km often do not penetrate so you see a lot of nothing or 580 dmg (even 10 shells hit the target...).

But I find her a nice killer at close distance. Estuary map is very good for her - the middle section where there is wide island in front of her makes a good place for CA/DD ambush trying to take B/D cap.

At less then 7km range those little cannons can make a lot of citadels.

 

And she is good in taking overpens from other ships (because of low armor).

 

She is uniqe. She is more like DD (like RU DD are more like CL then DDs). But most of my games I'm in top 3 and that is good result.

[kbb07142]

 

As you said: killing DD is just a pure fun! 2-3 salvos and its gone.

 

The rest?

She can escort BBs (DD and AA protection) and it should be her top job (while random games are without cooperation from players I do not do this).

She is a big "go away" sign to DDs (since she has radar this sign is now bigger)

Spamming shells makes BBs and CA change their course.

She can makes fires but not a lot of them, yet they help to make some dmg.

 

Yes - her shells over 9-10 km often do not penetrate so you see a lot of nothing or 580 dmg (even 10 shells hit the target...).

But I find her a nice killer at close distance. Estuary map is very good for her - the middle section where there is wide island in front of her makes a good place for CA/DD ambush trying to take B/D cap.

At less then 7km range those little cannons can make a lot of citadels.

 

And she is good in taking overpens from other ships (because of low armor).

 

She is uniqe. She is more like DD (like RU DD are more like CL then DDs). But most of my games I'm in top 3 and that is good result.

 

But she is terrible at killing DD's

 

Not once have i ever dies to a bloody atlanta in a DD. Her gun arcs are so stupid that I can sit at 8+ km away and dodge her shots all day.

 

The only time she may be usefull at killing DD's is if the DD is in smoke and the atlanta sails up to the smoke, pops radar and then nails it. Otherwise you need to be an idiot to die to an atlanta in a DD.

[XbodzioXplX]

 

But she is terrible at killing DD's

 

Not once have i ever dies to a bloody atlanta in a DD. Her gun arcs are so stupid that I can sit at 8+ km away and dodge her shots all day.

 

The only time she may be usefull at killing DD's is if the DD is in smoke and the atlanta sails up to the smoke, pops radar and then nails it. Otherwise you need to be an idiot to die to an atlanta in a DD.

 

 

Yes, at 8km arc is quite big (but it is not a problem - the rainbow starts at 10-11km). Still I do not have much problems hitting a DD.

How? You can use WASD hax but I won't fire all my battery at one spot but spread them while predicting where you are going to steer.

 

Good captain can fit in difficult situation.