BB`s Bow On

[Dirty_Filthy_Scrublord]

Just participated in a truly depressing battle. I`m in a Tirpitz, started firing at max range against two Iowa`s....the only tactic used by the enemy?? No surprise, bow on and reverse while firing at long range.

My advance was halted abruptly when two more BB`s joined in the funfest of "Bow on, and reverse". Why bother playing a BB if that`s all you can manage??

One response is to start firing HE at the bow on BB`s, but that just feels wrong. The major selling point of a BB is the massive damage output possible from a well placed AP salvo, that is becoming harder to achieve with the rapidly growing fondness of bow on and reverse.

No wonder I prefer a destroyer or cruiser. At least in those class of ships you get to turn now and then...using the wonderful WASD hack.

In short, BB "tactics" and I use that term in the most loose form possible is making sailing them tedious to the point of falling asleep. And I do like BB`s, just not the way they are played by a growing majority.

Oh and just to clarify, this is not a post about nerf this nerf that, or I cant win like this...it`s about keeping the game fun.

 

[ScratxNeko]

They're Iowas, that's a smart play for them. Not every BB can pull that off well. For that matter, if they apply only that tactic, they are giving up ground and tactical control of the battle pacing to you, aren't they? Just take advantage of that.

[Kann_Nix_Extreme]

Carriers were the ship class meant to prevent people from doing this, they kept the game in motion. The fact that a pack of two Iowas is able to effortlessly resist their supposed hardcounter nowadays, is as you said depressing...

[RUSSIANBlAS]

If you really need to use HE as a BB then do so. Swallow your pride...

 

You possibly shouldn't be shooting an Iowa at max range anyway. When they're bow on your shells will likely bounce off them like rain drops... Kill cruisers first then help others take down the BB. 

 

Still if they're doing the current high tier meta by camping miles out then just go for the objectives.

[Aotearas]

Sounds like it worked pretty well on you.

 

Going bow-on is an excellent way of diging your heels in and just tank. An Iowa has two thirds of its firepower up front and strong bow armour. That means unless you're in a Yamato that can overmatch the bow armour that isn't at an auto-bounce angle, your practically immune to AP barring superstructure hits, whilst you can still deliver a majority of your dpm against any opportune targets.

 

Stopping bow-on and reversing is typically also a sound tactic since it means you don't risk exposing a broadside in a turn to any enemy ships that would just love to put a couple shells into your citadel. You don't get out of harm's way as fast than if you turned, but you risk less damage taken in return.

[Shirakami_Kon]

If you are close instead of a max range I'd say Tirpitz can use that bow on tactic even better that Iowa (actually I don't know, I don't own Iowa, but I own a Tirpitz), Tirpitz at close range bow on laughs at any BB shell not going for the turrets or maybe a Yamato, but Amagis, North Carolinas, Iowas, Izumos and Montanas? They can't do anything against a Tirpitz perfectly bow on with AP, if they shoot the bow every single shot bounces. At long range they can hit the deck though and still do damage.

[Venom_Too]

I don't see your Problem:

 

Simple Solution

 

If you see the Iowa BOW on to you .. You Simply do the same.

 

If she Goes reverse you go full Speed on her.

 

She Can't pen you either through the Citadel so as you can't...

 

Then Close the Gap (With HE loaded instead of AP) and torp her death.

 

Yes it sounds pretty easy and yes it is pretty easy!

 

Edit:

If you are close instead of a max range I'd say Tirpitz can use that bow on tactic even better that Iowa (actually I don't know, I don't own Iowa, but I own a Tirpitz), Tirpitz at close range bow on laughs at any BB shell not going for the turrets or maybe a Yamato, but Amagis, North Carolinas, Iowas, Izumos and Montanas? They can't do anything against a Tirpitz perfectly bow on with AP, if they shoot the bow every single shot bounces. At long range they can hit the deck though and still do damage.

 

Only the Yamato can Reliable Hit your Cit Constantly

[Fino_93]

Tirpitz must fight at close distance, it's your responsability to drive her closer to your target or find a target that you can get close to.

 

however (1), as someone said some posts ago you were taking 2 t9BB away from the real battle with a single T8 BB, so you were tecnically playing a winning play, the fact that the game give you the money only for damage and capping is another discussion.

 

however (2), as someone else said in another post, there should be carriers for avoid this situations, the fact that iowas(or a north carolina in t8, cause they do the same thing) are invulnerable to carriers is another matter again.

[ghostbuster_]

Just participated in a truly depressing battle. I`m in a Tirpitz, started firing at max range against two Iowa`s....the only tactic used by the enemy?? No surprise, bow on and reverse while firing at long range.

My advance was halted abruptly when two more BB`s joined in the funfest of "Bow on, and reverse". Why bother playing a BB if that`s all you can manage??

One response is to start firing HE at the bow on BB`s, but that just feels wrong. The major selling point of a BB is the massive damage output possible from a well placed AP salvo, that is becoming harder to achieve with the rapidly growing fondness of bow on and reverse.

No wonder I prefer a destroyer or cruiser. At least in those class of ships you get to turn now and then...using the wonderful WASD hack.

In short, BB "tactics" and I use that term in the most loose form possible is making sailing them tedious to the point of falling asleep. And I do like BB`s, just not the way they are played by a growing majority.

Oh and just to clarify, this is not a post about nerf this nerf that, or I cant win like this...it`s about keeping the game fun.

 

Using HE should feel wrong to you. You can do good damage with HE und you can also set them on fire. Or try to flank them if its possible.

[ghostbuster_]

Just participated in a truly depressing battle. I`m in a Tirpitz, started firing at max range against two Iowa`s....the only tactic used by the enemy?? No surprise, bow on and reverse while firing at long range.

My advance was halted abruptly when two more BB`s joined in the funfest of "Bow on, and reverse". Why bother playing a BB if that`s all you can manage??

One response is to start firing HE at the bow on BB`s, but that just feels wrong. The major selling point of a BB is the massive damage output possible from a well placed AP salvo, that is becoming harder to achieve with the rapidly growing fondness of bow on and reverse.

No wonder I prefer a destroyer or cruiser. At least in those class of ships you get to turn now and then...using the wonderful WASD hack.

In short, BB "tactics" and I use that term in the most loose form possible is making sailing them tedious to the point of falling asleep. And I do like BB`s, just not the way they are played by a growing majority.

Oh and just to clarify, this is not a post about nerf this nerf that, or I cant win like this...it`s about keeping the game fun.

 

Using HE should feel wrong to you. You can do good damage with HE und you can also set them on fire. Or try to flank them if its possible.

[dasCKD]

Just participated in a truly depressing battle. I`m in a Tirpitz, started firing at max range against two Iowa`s....the only tactic used by the enemy?? No surprise, bow on and reverse while firing at long range.

My advance was halted abruptly when two more BB`s joined in the funfest of "Bow on, and reverse". Why bother playing a BB if that`s all you can manage??

One response is to start firing HE at the bow on BB`s, but that just feels wrong. The major selling point of a BB is the massive damage output possible from a well placed AP salvo, that is becoming harder to achieve with the rapidly growing fondness of bow on and reverse.

No wonder I prefer a destroyer or cruiser. At least in those class of ships you get to turn now and then...using the wonderful WASD hack.

In short, BB "tactics" and I use that term in the most loose form possible is making sailing them tedious to the point of falling asleep. And I do like BB`s, just not the way they are played by a growing majority.

Oh and just to clarify, this is not a post about nerf this nerf that, or I cant win like this...it`s about keeping the game fun.

 

 

1.  Find a friend with a firestarter ship: an Atago, a Mogami, a Chapayev, a Kuzutov, or even an Ibuki if you're feeling adventurous and stupid enough.
2. When Iowas go bow on, focus on another ship and have your cruiser friend begin roasting the Iowas.
3. Close distance.
4. When Iowas get nervous and tries to flee, gut them.
5. If they don't flee, continue to cook at Soviet/Imperial shell temperature.
6. Break three sprigs of rosemary over the Iowas and glaze with honey.
7. Prepare cooking until the red parts turns black.
8. Enjoy your Iowa roast.

[ShinGetsu]

Well, I just started playing Izumo, and the only thing I can say is : "If I'm not playing bow on, I'm dead." 

However Izumo at least have one of the worst AA for her tier, so she is balanced by her needing to keep close to cruisers or having a friendly CV to protect her from strikes.

(Tbh, I'm thinking of going for a full AA build with Izumo. The secondary battery build isn't very viable as they can't fire forward, and with AFT and Flag I'm already opening fire at more than 9km, manual secondary skill doing the rest, adding the 20%AA range and 25%AA DPS seems not stupid. At least it should works against tier 7-8 carriers...)

 

Iowa and NC can just sit and reverse, because planes needs to be either brave or oblivious to try striking them. However as long as Iowa isn't angled, he take citadel  hits one after another. Just aim below turret #2 and enjoy the fireworks.

 

With a Tirpitz, your best bet is to load HE and rush them to torp at point blank. Or just help your friendly cruisers to burn them to death.

[viceadmiral123]

Tirpitz shooting AP at long range bow-on battleship? No effect?! Let's show the forum how good I am at this game!

[Shirakami_Kon]

Well, I just started playing Izumo, and the only thing I can say is : "If I'm not playing bow on, I'm dead." 

However Izumo at least have one of the worst AA for her tier, so she is balanced by her needing to keep close to cruisers or having a friendly CV to protect her from strikes.

(Tbh, I'm thinking of going for a full AA build with Izumo. The secondary battery build isn't very viable as they can't fire forward, and with AFT and Flag I'm already opening fire at more than 9km, manual secondary skill doing the rest, adding the 20%AA range and 25%AA DPS seems not stupid. At least it should works against tier 7-8 carriers...)

 

Iowa and NC can just sit and reverse, because planes needs to be either brave or oblivious to try striking them. However as long as Iowa isn't angled, he take citadel  hits one after another. Just aim below turret #2 and enjoy the fireworks.

 

With a Tirpitz, your best bet is to load HE and rush them to torp at point blank. Or just help your friendly cruisers to burn them to death.

 

Yesterday I was playing my Tirpitz and faced a lone Izumo, so I charged it bow on, he panicked and tried to run (a very bad play, because he couln't shoot back at me excep presenting broadside, of which I took advantage), in the end I get close enough to torp it, but I can tell that even if he did 0 damage to me with the main guns I lost half my HP in that chase because of secondaries and fires, I wouldn't understimate the secondaries that much.

 

But well, thinking of it, you have to take in count the amount of people that would have the balls to still get close if "omg, secondaries are shooting at me!! it's huuuuuurts!!!", yeah...

[ShinGetsu]

 

Yesterday I was playing my Tirpitz and faced a lone Izumo, so I charged it bow on, he panicked and tried to run (a very bad play, because he couln't shoot back at me excep presenting broadside, of which I took advantage), in the end I get close enough to torp it, but I can tell that even if he did 0 damage to me with the main guns I lost half my HP in that chase because of secondaries and fires, I wouldn't understimate the secondaries that much.

 

But well, thinking of it, you have to take in count the amount of people that would have the balls to still get close if "omg, secondaries are shooting at me!! it's huuuuuurts!!!", yeah...

It may be because I still have the stock hull, but the secondaries of the Izumo can't shoot forward.

Which is a very bad thing for a BB that absolutely need to stay angled. Amagi with secondary build was amazing in this regard. Even a DD coming from front would start sweating heavily when the rain of secondaries with manual aim starts pouring on him.

 

TBH if I were in my Izumo and a Tirpitz would start rushing me me I don't really know what I would do, as being a sitting duck is a horrible choice, I would probably turn back and run away while he's still far, since the secondaries can hurts and the rear angle of the turret isn't bad. Turret #3 have horrible angle forward, but turret #2 and #3 have good rear angle, so I can keep some angle, shoot from at least two main battery, and open fire from secondaries.

I don't have enough experience with Izumo yet, but I think I would also load HE on Tirpitz to knock out his torpedo tubes.

[Admiral_noodle]

Wait... OP. You say there were two iowas then two more joined in. What are you supposed to do? Disengage and go somewhere else. They have a great position why fight there?

 

 

[dasCKD]

It may be because I still have the stock hull, but the secondaries of the Izumo can't shoot forward.

Which is a very bad thing for a BB that absolutely need to stay angled. Amagi with secondary build was amazing in this regard. Even a DD coming from front would start sweating heavily when the rain of secondaries with manual aim starts pouring on him.

 

TBH if I were in my Izumo and a Tirpitz would start rushing me me I don't really know what I would do, as being a sitting duck is a horrible choice, I would probably turn back and run away while he's still far, since the secondaries can hurts and the rear angle of the turret isn't bad. Turret #3 have horrible angle forward, but turret #2 and #3 have good rear angle, so I can keep some angle, shoot from at least two main battery, and open fire from secondaries.

I don't have enough experience with Izumo yet, but I think I would also load HE on Tirpitz to knock out his torpedo tubes.

 

I mostly learnt to engage Tirpitzes with my Amagi, and my Izumo has yet to see the spray of the ocean. Even so, in general I find that the bow on and reverse thing doesn't work that well on Tirpitzes unless you have a nearby island you are reversing behind. I personally find that beyond 14-15 km, the Tirpitz guns are either too weak or too inaccurate to do any worrying damage to even my Amagi. As the Izumo is considerably better armored than the Amagi (which I found out the hard way during a particularly embarrassing suicide rush using a New Orleans), I'd imagine staying at some distance and using your superior accuracy and shell size to whittle down the Tirpitzes is the best option for dealing with them.

[Turnipsi]

I always smile slowly when I see BB's doing that because most of the time they're doing it against a cruiser heavy opposition which means they just made it really easy for us to burn them down.

 

Even as  BB, I just throw HE at them. Almost guaranteed to set them on fire with one salvo and do around 6-7k damage.

[ShinGetsu]

 

I mostly learnt to engage Tirpitzes with my Amagi, and my Izumo has yet to see the spray of the ocean. Even so, in general I find that the bow on and reverse thing doesn't work that well on Tirpitzes unless you have a nearby island you are reversing behind. I personally find that beyond 14-15 km, the Tirpitz guns are either too weak or too inaccurate to do any worrying damage to even my Amagi. As the Izumo is considerably better armored than the Amagi (which I found out the hard way during a particularly embarrassing suicide rush using a New Orleans), I'd imagine staying at some distance and using your superior accuracy and shell size to whittle down the Tirpitzes is the best option for dealing with them.

 

The problem is "staying at some distance" with a brick that absolutely need to stay angled if he don't want to get citadelled by everything including cruisers. (Yes, cruisers. I citadelled more than one Izumo with my Hipper and Roon. And I know Baltimore and DM can too)

 

Also a lone Izumo is a dead Izumo, so there's no point arguing too much about this. XD

 

Welp, Izumo is clearly hard to play. I have to try different things, but I personnally think that my best bet would be showing the chasing Tirpitz my rear armor, letting him come inside my secondary range and then keeping the distance at max speed (Izumo goes 27/28kts, it's sufficient to keep the Tirpitz away for some times), while spamming him with HE to knock out annoying guns and torp tubes, and AP if he opens the angle.

[dasCKD]

Also a lone Izumo is a dead Izumo, so there's no point arguing too much about this. XD

 

I wasn't planning to. I have no experience with her.

Welp, Izumo is clearly hard to play. I have to try different things, but I personnally think that my best bet would be showing the chasing Tirpitz my rear armor, letting him come inside my secondary range and then keeping the distance at max speed (Izumo goes 27/28kts, it's sufficient to keep the Tirpitz away for some times), while spamming him with HE to knock out annoying guns and torp tubes, and AP if he opens the angle.

 I have reservations with using HE in a battleship, but I guess I am reaching the kinds of tiers where it is necessary.

[ShinGetsu]

 

 I have reservations with using HE in a battleship, but I guess I am reaching the kinds of tiers where it is necessary.

I did some testing with HE on Amagi in training room.

 

It CAN be useful. On bow on BB it's obvious, but even a whole salvo in a broadside CA can hurts lot (around 15k + fire + knocked-out modules, rudder, engine and torps tubes included). though only once as the part aimed will instantly be depleted of HP. It can be a good way to finish off a CA at close range without risking stupid overpens.

[Shirakami_Kon]

Yeah, the mistake of that Izumo was sailing alone and that it was too close to me, but on the other hand, I have a 15 skill points german captain with CE and I was running that, which I used to sneak close enough to the Izumo undetected. Also Concealment Expert is pretty good for Tirpitz to sneak closer to enemies because as dasCDK said, Tirpitz is weak at long range, so that help to get close it's very helpful.

 

And trolling other BBs or even cruisers (I got the concealment of my Tirpitz down to 12'3 km) dissapearing between shots it's just priceless. 

The amount of times I trolled whole groups of ships because they got mad at me dissapearing in their face, tried to focus me, I waited thanks to my concealment and my team got tons of broadsides and when they angled agains my team I got broadside myself... I can't get tired of that. 

[Venom_Too]

Their are serveral Occasions were HE Loading is more Important then AP.. Yes they are not that often..

 

But usually if you go against higher tier BB's with better Armor ... or If you have a SH** Ton of DD in the enemy team, can it also not be wrong.

[ShinGetsu]

Yeah, the mistake of that Izumo was sailing alone and that it was too close to me, but on the other hand, I have a 15 skill points german captain with CE and I was running that, which I used to sneak close enough to the Izumo undetected. Also Concealment Expert is pretty good for Tirpitz to sneak closer to enemies because as dasCDK said, Tirpitz is weak at long range, so that help to get close it's very helpful.

 

And trolling other BBs or even cruisers (I got the concealment of my Tirpitz down to 12'3 km) dissapearing between shots it's just priceless. 

The amount of times I trolled whole groups of ships because they got mad at me dissapearing in their face, tried to focus me, I waited thanks to my concealment and my team got tons of broadsides and when they angled agains my team I got broadside myself... I can't get tired of that. 

 

Yeah, I got the same build on my Tirpitz (He uses my Roon captain) and the concealment troll is indeed fun to use.^^

 

I'm used to play it like that since I also got an Atago.

[Cmdr_Kouta]

First: HE is no shame when used at the right time (especiel after the patch that is comming where AP even on perfect angle and stuff literarely has a 70% chanze not to hit citadel no mather what)

Second: You then have the controll of the battle, wile the iowa's and other ships can only bring like 2 guns with heavy spread to bear on max range, YOU can actualy outflank em (their vunerable to bombers too)

Third: The whole range camping only occures because of the sad HE ballance(and AP to some degree), if WG would make BB's imune to 8 inch AP fire (like they should be exept you hit them from like 1 km away) and nerf HE dmg output (alpha dmg, not the burn dmg), then more BB would seek the close encounter. I saw what a proper BB can do up close utilizing the secondary mod, the 2 secondary skills and the pin point lvl 5 ability for them... Obliberating DD's and Cruisers that dare come into a 5 km dead radius by just sidearms and nearly perfect aim (it was an Amagi Btw. i was part of 3 ships (2 cruisers and me as a Hatsuharu) that attacked that "certain kill" yet it wiped all of us out. THATS how it should be all the time, no cruiser without torps or even DD with torps should get close to a BB. Torps are not even close range weapons their purpose may be to kill BB yet most of the torps fired where either in spray and pray, or to push the enemy fleet into a certain direction giving other ships the oportunity to just blast the crap out of em.

 

Back to the problem: It has some easy , and one harder, way to be counterd. The easy is using HE and outflanking, the hard would be to push WG to finaly make BB nearly invincible exept from other BB and close quater combat and torps.