Smoke mechanic and need of radar

[loppantorkel]

Take OP Flint for example - to counter it you need specific counters and or good teamwork. Why, instead of relying on having radar-cruisers nearby, not make the smoke disguise more dynamic? A large ship that normally is detected at 12km becomes visible at 4 km within smoke and at 6 km if firing guns, a small ship with standard detection of 6km, becomes visible within smoke at 2 km or when assured acquisition kicks in, and at 3 km when firing guns.

 

A ship like Flint would be possible to approach and spot through smoke for a dd without being spotted, if the Flint continues firing from the smoke. Would also be a slight nerf for smoke-firing Kutusovs, Khabas and Gearings, which seems reasonable. It's a mechanic that should have more soft counter than having to rely on specific situations.

[basharran]

Smoke in the Flint is OP, otherwise I don't really have a problem with the mechanics as they are (yes invisifire from a smokecloud can be annoying).

[ghostbuster_]

Do i see right here? Complaining about a atlanta class paper cruiser. It cant be OP with that shell arc and this armor.

[Userext]

Do i see right here? Complaining about a atlanta class paper cruiser. It cant be OP with that shell arc and this armor.

 

 flint has a radar and a smoke cloud. what else do you need for an atlanta class cruiser to be OP? And only the best of the best got it.

[ghostbuster_]

 

 flint has a radar and a smoke cloud. what else do you need for an atlanta class cruiser to be OP? And only the best of the best got it.

Flint doesnt have radar. It has only smoke. Atlanta has radar.

[loppantorkel]

Do i see right here? Complaining about a atlanta class paper cruiser. It cant be OP with that shell arc and this armor.

Where's the complaint? I'm arguing for some changes that could improve the game. It won't take out smoke firing, just some reasonable adjustments.

Also, your logic is flawed. It can't be OP because of some weak aspects of it?! Sure it can.

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

Do i see right here? Complaining about a atlanta class paper cruiser. It cant be OP with that shell arc and this armor.

 

On this occasion i agree

[Ictogan]

Do i see right here? Complaining about a atlanta class paper cruiser. It cant be OP with that shell arc and this armor.

 

So Gearing wouldn't be OP if it was at tier 7?

[Userext]

Flint doesnt have radar. It has only smoke. Atlanta has radar.

 

are you sure? i dont own a flint(duh) but i heard it has radar

[ghostbuster_]

 

are you sure? i dont own a flint(duh) but i heard it has radar

Im sure about it. Search more.

[ghostbuster_]

 

So Gearing wouldn't be OP if it was at tier 7?

What? You are talking about taking a toer 10 ship into tier 7. With captain skill 23k hp DD with good 10 long range torpedos and with superior guns compare to all other tier 7 DDs. So it would be OP. Why did you even post something like that?

[loppantorkel]

Does anyone have a counterargument to what I proposed in OP? ..other than that you want to continue spamming HE from smoke undisturbed ...

[ghostbuster_]

Where's the complaint? I'm arguing for some changes that could improve the game. It won't take out smoke firing, just some reasonable adjustments.

Also, your logic is flawed. It can't be OP because of some weak aspects of it?! Sure it can.

You say its OP and it needs changes. So this is complaining. It could  but its really a weak ship. If it gets out of smoke (i dont even need to say that smokes are torp magnets) its half dead. You dont need a full broadside to citadel it even with CAs.

[Ictogan]

What? You are talking about taking a toer 10 ship into tier 7. With captain skill 23k hp DD with good 10 long range torpedos and with superior guns compare to all other tier 7 DDs. So it would be OP. Why did you even post something like that?

 

Your argument was that something with Atlanta shell arcs and armor couldn't possibly be OP. I gave an example that made clear that it could very well be OP.

[loppantorkel]

You say its OP and it needs changes. So this is complaining. It could  but its really a weak ship. If it gets out of smoke (i dont even need to say that smokes are torp magnets) its half dead. You dont need a full broadside to citadel it even with CAs.

I gave an example of an OP ship which would be influenced by the proposed changes. So, no complaint. I know the flaws of the ship. It can still be OP, and it probably still would be with the proposed changes to smoke. It would just have some more reasonable counters. At least agree that it's a very powerful ship when used properly, and could be a very, very powerful ship when used in divisions.

[ghostbuster_]

 

Your argument was that something with Atlanta shell arcs and armor couldn't possibly be OP. I gave an example that made clear that it could very well be OP.

Your example didnt make any sense at all. You put a gearing a tier 10 ship into tier 7. Yes i gave armor as argument. So lets see, i dont even need to see atlantas full broadside to citadel it with myoko or pensa. Lets say your example is valid, gearing cant be citadeled. So also this makes your argument invalid.

[ghostbuster_]

I gave an example of an OP ship which would be influenced by the proposed changes. So, no complaint. I know the flaws of the ship. It can still be OP, and it probably still would be with the proposed changes to smoke. It would just have some more reasonable counters. At least agree that it's a very powerful ship when used properly, and could be a very, very powerful ship when used in divisions.

Some spot some sit in smoke. So just torp the smoke. Problem solved. According to your logic any DDs which played in divs at higher tiers are OP. So let them get spotted if another DD gets in to normal detection range? No it doesnt make sense at all.

Btw "Its a very powerful ship when used properly" any ship is very powerful if it is used properly.

[Spellfire40]

 

So Gearing wouldn't be OP if it was at tier 7?

 

​Well Gering has less turrets but no 12km detection range no citadel and fast long range torps plus much better speed.

[ColonelPete]

Look at the Tier VII cruiser stats of the Flint players --> similar performance.

Flint is not OP.

[loppantorkel]

Some spot some sit in smoke. So just torp the smoke. Problem solved. According to your logic any DDs which played in divs at higher tiers are OP. So let them get spotted if another DD gets in to normal detection range? No it doesnt make sense at all.

Btw "Its a very powerful ship when used properly" any ship is very powerful if it is used properly.

..or some ship could fire into the smoke and detonate the Flint. Problem solved. Very easy. 

 

I think the issue here is that you're a very conservative guy who thinks the game isn't supposed to change from the current format.

[loppantorkel]

Look at the Tier VII cruiser stats of the Flint players --> similar performance.

Flint is not OP.

How do I find them easily?

[ghostbuster_]

..or some ship could fire into the smoke and detonate the Flint. Problem solved. Very easy. 

 

I think the issue here is that you're a very conservative guy who thinks the game isn't supposed to change from the current format.

Well torpedos into the smoke are very common, effective and easy to do. 

It may change im ok with it when a change is necessary. But its really easy to hunt flints or atlantas with any other ship. I dont see any reason for a change here.

[loppantorkel]

Well torpedos into the smoke are very common, effective and easy to do. 

It may change im ok with it when a change is necessary. But its really easy to hunt flints or atlantas with any other ship. I dont see any reason for a change here.

As I've stated, I think the smoke mechanic could be improved. Instead of seeing bbs flee toward the corners of the map when a Khaba starts shooting from smoke, they could at least see them a bit earlier when the Khaba is shooting, should they try to close in on the smoke. It's not always there are dds or other cruisers around. It would make the smoke slightly more defensive tool again, but still effective to use for firing from smoke. If spotted, just stop shooting and get out if needed. It's a reasonable change - If you shoot from smoke, there should be a slight reduction of cover. It wouldn't break anything.

[Panzerblitz]

The problem is that smoke is supposed to be a defensive consumable - It's the "Get out of jail" card for vulnerable ships like DDs and certain CLs.

 

Instead smoke is now the most powerful offensive consumable, because people can shoot out from smoke without being spotted. And by some magical contraption the ships inside the smoke can see outwards, but you can't look inwards.

 

The best fix to the problem would be to enhance the defensive value of smoke - make it an instant Los break, but at the same time the ship sitting inside the smoke cloud should be blind itself.

[ghostbuster_]

As I've stated, I think the smoke mechanic could be improved. Instead of seeing bbs flee toward the corners of the map when a Khaba starts shooting from smoke, they could at least see them a bit earlier when the Khaba is shooting, should they try to close in on the smoke. It's not always there are dds or other cruisers around. It would make the smoke slightly more defensive tool again, but still effective to use for firing from smoke. If spotted, just stop shooting and get out if needed. It's a reasonable change - If you shoot from smoke, there should be a slight reduction of cover. It wouldn't break anything.

But there is no need. And it would have other effects. From smoke shooting dds could get spoted also by enemy dds nearby and cas or bbs at long distance to that dd in smoke could shoot it and kill it. Are gonna make from smoke shooting dds detectable only by bbs? In smoke sitting dds are really the last thing to worry about.