5.9: Tier 5 ships are a pain to grind now (bottom tier every game)

[GulvkluderGuld]

As the topic says. 

Havn't been enjoying my Kongisberg or Kongo at all lately. Ended up freeXP'ing the last 5k Xp of the Konigsberg because I got sick of being bottom tier.

Even my Murmansk stays in port.

 

Is there any stats we can see that can shed some light on how bad it is?

[beercrazy]

it does feel like every game in a tier 5 ship you are playing against higher tiers

 

[Tungstonid]

Well, I didn't play that much the last days and I have the same feeling although it is more about tier 6 being bottom tier more often than before (tier 5 worked fine). Might have to do something with the tier 3/4 mm change in the last update. Or it is just personal perception.

[Pajosaurus]

Haven't you got the memo? The New and Improved Matchmaker™ knows only 2 mid and high tier brackets: 5-7 and 8-10. If you want to minimise your suffering, not to mention prevent your WR from entering free fall, play only T7 and T10 ships.

 

[Meneleus]

I have played some T5 last few days and yes, I was a bit surprised how often I got into T7 battles and thought I just had a streak of poor luck. Without statistics we only have anecdotal evidence from a few players, not a lot to go on.

 

Cheers,

 

M

[Ze_Reckless]

I'm happy about tier 7 battles in 5s. More xp and credits!

[Deckeru_Maiku]

As the topic says. 

Havn't been enjoying my Kongisberg or Kongo at all lately. Ended up freeXP'ing the last 5k Xp of the Konigsberg because I got sick of being bottom tier.

Even my Murmansk stays in port.

 

Is there any stats we can see that can shed some light on how bad it is?

 

No, bu please hurry up and leave the T5 region ASAP - nothing to see there, all working as intended.

[IanH755]

I've stopped playing my Kirov which is my 2nd favourite ship with over 100 matches because of the amount of T7 games I now end up in which, when I actually kept count was 70% with T6 at 20% and T5 at 10% from 10 games. It's just not "fun" being bottom tier so many MANY times and if it's not "fun" then why should I play it?

 

If WG wanted to protect lower tiers then they should give preferencial MM based on Progress levels, not Ship tiers i.e. Level 1-10 is +/-1 and level 11-12+ is normal +/-2 MM'ing.

[Nechrom]

This is literally the only way to be top tier while playing tier 5:

 

 

Getting one of those super rare two tier battles.

 

On the other hand you get more hilarious results like these:

 

 

Because I've yet to have a battle without tier 7 ships in my Krispy Kreme.

[Tyrendian89]

Haven't you got the memo? The New and Improved Matchmaker™ knows only 2 mid and high tier brackets: 5-7 and 8-10. If you want to minimise your suffering, not to mention prevent your WR from entering free fall, play only T7 and T10 ships.

 

and guess which tier the hotly anticipated upcoming german premium BB will be? How... convenient.

[Phlogistoned]

Haven't you got the memo? The New and Improved Matchmaker™ knows only 2 mid and high tier brackets: 5-7 and 8-10. If you want to minimise your suffering, not to mention prevent your WR from entering free fall, play only T7 and T10 ships.

This, unfortunately, is true.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Haven't you got the memo? The New and Improved Matchmaker™ knows only 2 mid and high tier brackets: 5-7 and 8-10. If you want to minimise your suffering, not to mention prevent your WR from entering free fall, play only T7 and T10 ships.

 

This is unfortunately true. But it isn't really funny the way it works now.

I wanted to post my feedback that this is a step in the wrong direction, because this can quickly kill the game for me.

I'm a veteran, but I can't imagine any newbie will feel any different upon reaching tier 5 and getting rekt 9/10 games by tier 7s.

 

Basicly, now there are

tier 8+ expensive and thus snipefest games

tier 7 games with the same ships over and over we just played the whole ranked season

tier 5-6 snipefests due to being bottom tier and getting rekt by tier 7 BBs

sealclubbing newbies in tier 4 and below

 

That is very little variation!

Previously tier 4-6 were brawling games where one could yolo and go ham without getting blown out of the water instantly by tier 7 railguns. I miss those games dearly!

 

I've stopped playing my Kirov which is my 2nd favourite ship with over 100 matches because of the amount of T7 games I now end up in which, when I actually kept count was 70% with T6 at 20% and T5 at 10% from 10 games. It's just not "fun" being bottom tier so many MANY times and if it's not "fun" then why should I play it?

 

If WG wanted to protect lower tiers then they should give preferencial MM based on Progress levels, not Ship tiers i.e. Level 1-10 is +/-1 and level 11-12+ is normal +/-2 MM'ing.

 

This would make a lot more sense. 

[Machine_Cookie]

Yea I just finished grinding the Furutaka and it felt like I was bottom tier quite alot, but I seemed to do better in tier 7 games.

 

[Belustigungspanda]

Just had 5 games with my Kamikaze since i wanted to finish the Boot Camp mission for its captain. Out of these 5 matches, in 1 i was high tier (4-5) and in 2 each is wasn't (4-6 & 5-7).

With my ARP Kongo, it was the other way round during the last few days (also about 5 matches): I never got into T7 games, but in T6 (3 times) and T5 (2 times).

 

I think that these are - more or less - those two T5 ships that still are able to perform well in T7 matches, Kamikaze/Minekaze because of its stealthyness, Kongo because of range and speed. Some like a fully upgraded Fututaka (which is basically an Aoba), Nicholas & Gnevny (good firepower, speed & smoke) or Königsberg (easy to citadel, but acurate guns and high agility) depend on good positioning and situational awareness but may do well, too. I suppose one suffers in those vessels that provide one special ability at the cost of severe drawbacks...or in those ones that are just mediocre. I'm thinking of Kirov (great guns, paper armor and bad manoeuverability), New York (T5 gun spread, slow) and Omaha (good pew pew firepower, but range issues and paper armor). All T5 ships however are primary targets for CVs.

 

Giving T3 ships preferential matchmaking wasn't a bad decision at all...don't get me wrong here. In many T3 ships you don't stand a chance on T5 because you simply lack range and/or speed. T5 ships are way better suited to deal with high tier enemies than T3 are. But WG should have differentiated between stock T5 ships and upgraded ones. IMHO, stock T5 ships could very well still be sent into T3 games.

[Wolfenbane]

it does feel like every game in a tier 5 ship you are playing against higher tiers

 

 

 

I have to agree,this needs adjusting.I was going to rebuy the Furaka but with her poor range forget it.Just had enough to get the Aoba instead............oh great T8...................and with the Aoba's poor range for T8.There's also another post about people moaning about T8 match ups.So whatever the tier,it usally ends in tears,it would seem.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

Quoting myself from another thread ( http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/57482-059-secret-ninja-nerf-of-all-tier-5s-6s/page__st__100#topmost ):

 

UPDATE

 

Battles fought - 50 (all with Tier 5 and 6 ships, includes the 21 from my last post)

Top Tier (with narrow spread) - 19 battles

Medium Tier - 15 battles

Low Tier - 16 battles

 

 In detail:

 

As a tier 5 - 11 times top tier, 13 times low tier

As a tier 6 - 8 times top tier, 13 times medium tier, 5 times low tier

 

As a BB (Fuso, Warspite, New Mexico) - 6 times high tier, 12 times medium tier, 5 times low tier

As a Cruiser (Omaha, Cleveland, Königsberg, Nürnberg, Murmansk, Kirov) - 10 times high tier, 3 times medium tier, 5 times low tier

As a DD (Minekaze, Kamikaze, Gnevny) - 3 times high tier, 6 times low tier

 

 

So in 24 battles with my tier 5 ships there were 11 "narrow" battles, with only tier 4 and tier 5 ships. And 13 "normal spread" battles with ships from tier 5 to tier 7

And in 26 battles with my tier 6 ships there were 8 "narrow" battles, with only tier 5 and tier 6 ships. And 18 "normal spread" battles with ships from tier 6 to tier 8

 

For me, this spread looks pretty normal. Of course sometimes you get a day, where you are low tier in 80% of the battles. But usually over a longer time it all evens out.

 

And of course the number of ships in each class might interfere with the intended 1/3 per high/medium/low tier dispersion. Of course the MM can only put ships into battle, that are in the queue. So when there's 50% BBs, 5% CVs, 30% cruisers and 15% DDs in the queue all day long and you want to play a BB that surely will influence the tier of battles you'll see.

 

Add to that the fact, that there are ten different tiers and not all are filled with players equally. As a - very uneducated - guess I'd say that the majority of players has ships in the T5 to T6 region. So there's a lot more T5/6 ships for the MM to assign to battles.

 

Everything working as intended.

Stop using small sample sizes as a reason to whine about nothing, please.

[Quetak]

Im not sure if it can help but what about give lower tier ships some in game buffs?

I mean: When you fight against +1T ship you have 10% reduction of incoming damage and 5% buff to your damage (againts that target). 
When you fight against +2T ship you have 20% reduction of incoming damage and 10% buff to your damage. 

This doesnt work for premium ships and torpedo damage is also not affected.

Could it help?

[Admiral_noodle]

It's not every game. However the 5-7 spread seems alarmingly frequent now and I think MM needs another tweak. The release of german BBs will probably upset this current trend anyway.

 

You don't need to put in game "help" for low tier ships. MM should be fiddled with again to prevent endless runs of bottom tier. WG will have the stats tho.

 

Incidentally I feel the 5-7 game domination was there before MMwas changed anyway. To my mind there is simply a glut of tier 7 players. Improves MM has likely made it worse, but I have been in a few IV-V games so they do still exist.

[Pajosaurus]

Incidentally I feel the 5-7 game domination was there before MMwas changed anyway. To my mind there is simply a glut of tier 7 players. Improves MM has likely made it worse, but I have been in a few IV-V games so they do still exist.

 

That is correct. T5-T7 grouping has been there for several months now in my experience. It's only T8 MM that got royally screwed recently for whatever reason.

[Dragnorak]

I'm only playing T5 now and am always up against T7 although mostly the DD's are 5 or 4 even. I saw a Sampson the other day poor bloke. Sometimes I see the odd Mahan but he won't see me much . It's not hurting my stats but then I am in a Mini so it's a different game to a BB granted.

[Admiral_noodle]

 

That is correct. T5-T7 grouping has been there for several months now in my experience. It's only T8 MM that got royally screwed recently for whatever reason.

 

It will be because of relative populations at each tier. I think enough people have got to tier X now that they will always be in queue. So instead of a few tier X games there are many more. However there aren't enough tier X players in queue to have an all tier X game.  So they wait and fill up with tier 8s. With more tier X players the problem reduces. 

 

This also of course has the effect of fewer tier 8 games so you have tier 7s hanging around waiting for a game - which sucks in tier Vs...

 

I wish we had games by tier range stats. I think there are now two clumps. Tier 5-7 and 8-10 which are currently self sustaining. 

[22cm]

On the other hand you get more hilarious results like these:

 

 

Because I've yet to have a battle without tier 7 ships in my Krispy Kreme.

 

I would not bragg about that. The only way to be best player in the Crappy Cream in a tier 7 game is to have an enemy team of [edited], who are only able to kill a SINGLE ship during the whole game (and an Omaha on top of it, ffs! )

[22cm]

I wish we had games by tier range stats. I think there are now two clumps. Tier 5-7 and 8-10 which are currently self sustaining. 

 

... and ruining the life for tiers 5 and 8.

[Admiral_noodle]

I wonder what influx of Scharnhorst will do. It might mean tier 5 and 6 BBs won't be dragged into tier V games because they are already full with scharnhorsts...

[22cm]

I wonder what influx of Scharnhorst will do. It might mean tier 5 and 6 BBs won't be dragged into tier V games because they are already full with scharnhorsts...

 

Yes, it will make it worse. No chance for tier 5 to be even middle tier anymore, only low tier.