another Hatsuharu hate thread... is what comes next worth freexping it?

[Quetak]

im sending one torp salvo also behind marked location. And its because my own torp dodge move. When I spot torps I usualy(not always) turn ship to them (full rudder) and also full brake for a while and then again full forward. Full left/right rudder and full brake seems to me that is fastest turning possible. I saw that also many other ppl are using brake when they see torps - so thats why Im sending also one salvo behind.

Hatsu is very similar to Fubuki so If OP doesnt like hatsu he will not like Fubuki. For me are much better/fun US DDs - Mahan/Benson/Fletcher.

 

[Diabolik__]

 

I must be doing something right, it is not like i'm a very good dd, but i would like to think im quite decent.... im not the best at engrish, its abit difficult to explain every scenario. cause they are all different in the end,!

I'm just saying(pointing out) that OP will have "alot more succes by not torping behind, & fire it ahead instead.

Instead of judging it, give it a try and tell me how it works for you.!

 

You got me interested in this because I love playing with IJN DDs, with Hats I am doing good with Fubuki better and better but my strategy for launching torps is like this:

 

 

First picture: First salvo a bit ahead of him(if he speed ups or to trick him into slowing or dodging) second salvo a bit behind him and third salvo behind him.

 

Second picture: When a player spots first salvo ussualy he will start slowing down or dodging torps on port or starboard side and when he does that torpedo aim (grey bolt) will start going behind him so he will eat my second or third salvo.  

 

This is my logic for using torpedos(and I am doing very good like this) and you are presenting something totally different so I am very interested in that and would like if you can explain us your tactics?

 

Thanks

 

p.s.

I hope that everone will understand my drawings and my explanation

 

[plammbeach]

The thing is, lets take your scenario, - which is an ideal target to fire torpedo at;
if targets turns  port(right) he will have bow on much easier time to dodge torpedo.... But, if he turns starboard(left). you will have a devasting strike, when firing at that angle

 

[creamgravy]

Don't forget the target ship will have over 60 seconds to press WASD until the torpedoes hit if you fire them at 9-10km. 

 

Hatsuharu is a fantastic destroyer, I love mine. 

 

Here's some tables some might find interesting.

 

Torpedoes.

A general overview of the torpedoes.

 

Time to target = Accuracy.

Reaction w/Vigilance = The time most ships get to dodge them.

TA = Torpedo Acceleration.

 

Without concealment expert.

Type	Range (km)	Speed (Knots)	Damage	Reload (s)	Detection (km)	Reaction (s)	w/Vigilance (s)	Ship Concealment (km)	Launch distance (km)	Time to Target (s)	Active (s)
Type 8 mod.2	10	59	16267	76	1.5	9.8	12.2	6.5	6.9	45.0	65.2
Type 90 mod.1	10	62	17233	82	1.6	9.9	12.4	6.5	6.9	42.8	62.0
Type 8 mod.2 (TA)	8	64	16267	76	1.5	9.0	11.3	6.5	6.9	41.5	48.1
Type 90 mod.1 (TA)	8	67	17233	82	1.6	9.2	11.5	6.5	6.9	39.6	45.9

 

With concealment expert.

Type	Range (km)	Speed (Knots)	Damage	Reload (s)	Detection (km)	Reaction (s)	w/Vigilance (s)	Ship Concealment (km)	Launch distance (km)	Time to Target (s)	Active (s)
Type 8 mod.2	10	59	16267	76	1.5	9.8	12.2	5.8	6.2	40.4	65.2
Type 90 mod.1	10	62	17233	82	1.6	9.9	12.4	5.8	6.2	38.5	62.0
Type 8 mod.2 (TA)	8	64	16267	76	1.5	9.0	11.3	5.8	6.2	37.3	48.1
Type 90 mod.1 (TA)	8	67	17233	82	1.6	9.2	11.5	5.8	6.2	35.6	45.9

 

Comparison.

Type	% accuracy increase	% harder to dodge	% reload increase	% damage increase
Type 8 mod.2	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0
Type 90 mod.1	4.8	-1.5	7.9	5.9
Type 8 mod.2 (TA)	7.8	7.8	0.0	0.0
Type 90 mod.1 (TA)	11.9	6.1	7.9	5.9

 

Comparison agasint other tier 7 destroyers.

Ship	Torpedo	Range (km)	Speed (Knots)	Detection (km)	Damage	Number	Reload	Ship Concealment (km)	Launch distance (km)	Time to Target (s)	Time in water (s)	Reaction time (s)	Vigilance (s)
Mahan	Mk15 mod.0	9.2	55	1.1	11600	12	87	6.9	7.3	51.0	64	7.7	9.6
Sims	Bliss Leavitt Mk7 mod.2B	9.2	49	1.0	8500	8	72	6.6	7.0	54.9	72	7.8	9.8
Błyskawica	Mk X	8	57	1.2	14400	6	70	6.8	7.2	48.6	54	8.1	10.1
Hatsuharu A	Type 8 (TA)	8	64	1.5	16267	6	76	5.8	6.2	37.3	48	9.0	11.3
Hatsuharu B	Type 90 (TA)	8	67	1.6	17233	6	82	5.8	6.2	35.6	46	9.2	11.5
Hatsuharu	Type 8	10	59	1.5	16267	6	68	5.8	6.2	40.4	65	9.8	12.2
Hatsuharu	Type 90	10	62	1.6	17233	6	74	5.8	6.2	38.5	62	9.9	12.4

 

Type 8 mod.2.
Compared to a T5 Kamikaze torpedoes they're 20% less accurate, 20% easier to dodge and have a 38% longer reload time, all for a 12% damage and 30% range increase. Great....

(Kamikaze = 32s to target with a 7.9s reaction time)

OK, they take a long time to reach the target and the 3x2 spread is bad (no sniping half decent players with these) but you can hit areas from a good range. Our best 'spammy' torpedo option.

 

Type 90 mod.1
 A rather disappointing upgrade, the stats are just shifted around a bit. They're better at sniping but still not good enough compared to the best IJN torpedoes.

 

Type 8 mod.2 (TA)
A 8% increase in accuracy and reduces reaction time by 8%. Now we're getting somewhere, pick these if you want the hardest to avoid torpedoes with a good reload.

 

Type 90 mod.1 (TA)
12% increase in accuracy and reduces reaction time by 6%. The best torpedo for those looking to hit enemies hard like a Minekaze. Although you'll need concealment expert for the best accuracy.

 

 

Guns

 

Using guns agasint destroyers.

	First HE Salvo	HE DPM
Hatsuharu B	1575	7156
Hatsuharu A	2100	8050
Sims	1350	11880
Błyskawica	2125	12102
Mahan B	1800	12375
Kiev	2000	12800

 

Characteristics: A good broadside but low DPM, which is typical for all IJN destroyers (excluding AA hulls)

 

1. Get into a good position to spot.
2. Shoot a few well aimed salvos for 2-6k. (25%+ the destroyers HP in some cases)
3. Retreat into stealth. (only pop smoke if cruisers start shooting at you)
4. Repeat until the enemy destroyer sinks or goes somewhere else.

 

This classic tactic as was OP when turrets were made from paper but it's still very effective. IJN cruisers also use it to great effect.

 

Using guns against Battleships.
 

Name	HE DPM	FPM	FPM with DE
Hatsuharu B	3593	1.24	1.66
Hatsuharu A	4043	1.40	1.86
Sims	7128	1.60	2.55
Mahan B	7425	1.66	2.66
Błyskawica	6490	2.46	3.38
Kiev	6864	2.77	3.80

 

DPM drops off as your shells start hitting heavy armour more often. Fires become the bulk of your damage, being able to overwhelm damage control is very important.
Hatsuharu isn't the best for spamming HE at battleships without AFT and DE but don't be afraid to try, 2+ fires is brutal in WOWS ..esp with flooding.

 

Using guns agasint cruisers.
Ahhh run away! Only hit cruisers with HE at range when it's safe or they're low.
AP performance is quite good at 6km but a slow reload means cruisers will angle (agasint the threat of torps) before you can get a second AP salvo off, so switch to good'ol HE straight away.

 

General.
The 3rd gun turret rotates around the front, this can lead to more aggressive plays compared to Fubuki, Kagero and Shimakaze. (Fun!)
Expert Marksman is very important and can be taken over LS or TAE if you use guns all the time (I can't stand using IJN destroyers without EM, too frustrating!)  
Even with a good first salvo make sure you have a 2-3k HP advantage if your set for a destroyer dual to the death (Fight!)
Don't forget to read this for general DD gun play > http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/50581-onkeles-gunboat-destroyer-guide/

 

DPM = Damage per minute. (agasint a tier 7 ship)
FRM = Fires per minute (agasint a tier 7 ship)
DE = Demolition expert.

 

[Diabolik__]

creamgravy, do you have stats like this for Fubuki and Kagero?

 

 

 

 

[creamgravy]

Yep.

 

Torpedoes.

Ship	Torpedo	Range (km)	Speed (Knots)	Surface detection (km)	Damage	Number	Ship Concealment (km)	Launch distance (km)	Time to Target (s)	Time in water (s)	Reaction time (s)	Vigilance (s)	Vigilance and TASM (s)
Fubuki	Type 90 mod.2	15	57	1.4	17233	9	5.5	5.9	39.8	101.2	9.4	11.8	14.2
Fubuki	Type 90 mod.2 (TA)	12	62	1.4	17233	9	5.5	5.9	36.6	74.4	8.7	10.9	13.0
Fubuki	Type 93 mod.2	10	67	1.7	20967	9	5.5	5.9	33.9	57.4	9.8	12.2	14.6
Fubuki	Type 93 mod.2 (TA)	8	72	1.7	20967	9	5.5	5.9	31.5	42.7	9.1	11.4	13.6
Shimakaze	Type 93 mod.3	12	67	1.9	23767	15	5.9	6.3	36.2	68.9	10.9	13.6	16.4
Shimakaze	Type 93 mod.3 (TA)	9.6	72	1.9	23767	15	5.9	6.3	33.7	51.3	10.1	12.7	15.2
Shimakaze	Type F3	8	76	1.9	21367	15	5.9	6.3	31.9	40.5	9.6	12.0	14.4
Shimakaze	Type F3 (TA)	6.4	81	1.9	21367	15	5.9	6.3	29.9	30.4	9.0	11.3	13.5
Shimakaze	Type 93	20	62	2.5	20967	15	5.9	6.3	39.1	124.1	15.5	19.4	23.3
Shimakaze	Type 93 (TA)	16	67	2.5	20967	15	5.9	6.3	36.2	91.8	14.4	17.9	21.5

 

Kagero uses a mix between the Fubuki and Shima, you'll probably be launching them at similar distances too.

With CE you can get close to Kamikaze style accuracy, they're easier to dodge but you can cover a greater area.

 

Check out those 20km type 93s. A ship with Vigilance and TASM will see them 23 seconds before hitting (assuming they stand still...)

 

 

Guns:

Name	Tier	Guns	Reload (s)	Hit rate (%)	Shells per min	HE Alpha	HE shell average	Armour Level	HE Salvo	HE DPM	Fire chance (%)	BB Hit rate (%)	Shells per min	BB HE shell average	BB HE DPM	BB FPM	FPM with DE
Fubuki/Kagero B hull	8/9	6	8.1	0.45	20	2100	525	21	2625	10500	9	0.70	31	173	5390	1.68	2.23

 

In general you can do 13k (10k + first salvo) in 60 seconds agasint other destroyers, not bad. They're also fairly solid for spamming retreating BBs, I'd rate them higher than the 4 gun layout of a Sims or Benson.

 

[Diabolik__]

Thank you

[Drunken_Jedi]

Apologies if I hijack this thread for just a moment. I'm grinding towards the Fubuki atm since I can see the potential with the guns being much better than what came before it and the torpedoes are not bad either. I'm on the Mutsuki at the moment and I truly hate it, only two guns and the torpedoes for gaining 3km range take so long to reload it's insane. I could deal with the low torpedo hit rate (players aren't as stupid as they used to) but the guns are so lack lustre a Minekaze will outgun me completely. It feels like a total downgrade from the Minekaze a tier lower. I'm tempted to free XP to the Hatsuharu but from what I see here it's not that much better there either.

 

I use her to cap points but when I keep getting put in standard battles it leaves me with pretty much no role since I have very limited success with the torpedoes even launched from close(ish) range.

[Omnichr0n]

@Drunken_Jedi: I personally enjoy the Hatsu more than the Mutsuki, but it might be because I find the guns to be quite decent at range (not as good as the Russian DDs, but still...) and if you manage to steer those torps in the right direction, you can score some awesome damages... (which is why Hatsu is one of the ships I've done the most damage with).

 

However, there are games where you don't get much done... I just try to keep scouting, dropping torps and help the team out with my guns blazing whenever I feel like I can get away with it. Most of the times I do decent damage at least.

 

However, if you truly hate the Mutsuki... well, the Hatsu isn't a ship to love either I think. I prefer the US DDs a lot more, so I don't play the Hatsu as much these days. I still have some fond memories of great torp runs though!

[CPL_Sivi]

Hatsuharu isn't a bad ship, but it's worse than the ones that come before, and it plays a bit differently (use guns more).

 

Fubuki is strong and in my opinion worth the grind through Hatsu, but if you didn't adapt to Hatsu, you will struggle with Fubuki. Yes, Fubuki has 9 torpedoes, but the guns are also excellent and need to be used if you want to be successful.

 

Personally, I think the T9/10 of the Japanese line have seen one too many nerfs, so I hardly play my Fubuki these days. There's nothing magnetically drawing me to Kagero and Shima except for history reasons.

 

The playstyle of Minekaze, spamming torpedoes everywhere from stealth, is gone and will not come back later in the line.

 

Actualy thats exactly what i do with my fubuki. Camo module with 5th perk got stealth to 5.5 km and thats just awesome to play with 10km torps. Sometimes i just rush BB and sometimes i spam from safety. U have much more options than with mutsu or hatsu. Those ships are spot cap first, damage second. I had same problems when i advanced from minekaze, almost abandoned the line. Then found a thread that explained how to use those two things and finished the grinds. Fubuki is much better in my opinion. Grinded thru but i didnt get the kagero yet. 3X3 setup looks much more fun than 2X4. Kagero can wait.

[ulcusrodens]

by the way, i changed a bit my approach to hatsuharu, and in the end i did pretty well with it. i became less aggressive, started focusing on capping and scouting and kills came along...

 

[Mike_Chaffin]

 I've spent quite a few games running around trying to Citadel cruisers, and it does work on some of them... Doesn't seem to do much damage though? I've had 10 hits including a citadel only give me a 3k or so damage.

 

 Has anyone ever done a guide on which ships you can penetrate the side armour on with a Hatsu? Is it range dependant?

 

 I utterly hate this ship, I can see the attraction of it's guns but the ship itself handles like a barge. Slowing down in particular is annoyingly slow... One thing I've had some success with is effectively charging battleships head on, hitting smoke and stopping then wait for them to come to me. They have to expose a broadside eventually at which point I'll often pick up my obligatory single torp hit whilst the 40,000t monster that handles better than my supposedly nimble 1800t destroyer deftly weaves a dance around whatever torpedo pattern I try. Good fun merrily plinking away though during. Suffice to say I haven't had much success getting away afterwards... Well, once I think.

 

 Checked my stats and my oh so stealthy Aoba is actually a better torpedo boat than this heap of junk. I've reinstalled the original hull as the extra gun makes far more of a difference than, what is it a paltry 3 knots of speed on the torps? Even using TA along with the faster torps never resulted in more than 1 hit.

 

 Still haven't got to CE points on my captain yet so maybe things change for the better.... ?

[tadaMonika]

Call me dumb, but... I played maybe 30 DD games and many, many games with Cruisers that have torps and I just learned about the indication marker for torps in this thread.... I feel so stupid now =.=

 

But back to topic: I never played DDs much (only starting now and free-xped my way to Mutsuki and halfway to Hatsuharu, but I dont find it that bad, although my torpedo-hitrate is abyssmal (because I am dumb, apperantly).

But I mostly capped or banzai-rushed enemy BBs, because thats kinda my playstyle (not hitting with torps above 7km range may have something to do with it,too). Working for Fubuki now :3

[theWulfen]

Hatsuharu feels strange in the line, but is actually quite powerful! I have some of my best game in her. But she has her problems unfortunately. You really need to stay at range and play stealthy.

Hitting with Torpedo's is harder as your opponents get more unpredictable and have more plane cover. I usually get more exp with the Hatsu than any other ship I have! (regular get 3000+ base exp games)

 

I guess my top list would be:

1.Minekaze/Hatsuharu

2.Gnevny    (started out hating the Gnevny, but once you dial in how to play her she is a monster! 100K+ damage games in about 33% of the games)

3.Ferragut

 

Fubuki is troublesome, it can outgun DD's when you fight at range (not on short range). But the torps feel very weak. I have more luck with the 15km range torps and just shooting from stealth with my range upgrade.

But shooting doesn't do much damage as you just don't shoot that often.

Still have to unlock the T8 of the Russian and USA DD's tho (really looking forward to the Benson)

 

[Meremortal]

Good god the IJN split cannot come quickly enough.... I Despise this dreadful pile of RUBBISH... it's AWFUL!   Every aspect of this ship is AWFUL.  A Torp hit in a game makes it a good game, 2 torp hits make it a miracle game.  In every aspect it's worse than it's predecessor.   I HATE IT.