Radar, what the hell am I supposed to do?

[BuccaneerBill]

Yeah...I think radar cooldow needs to be reduced.

[AnotherDuck]

You didn't understand. Radar is as long great addition to the game and totally balanced, as long as DD has their smoke ability. If you're willing to drop smoke - CA's will not need radar anymore.

 

I understand that's what you think. You're just expressing it in the hypocritical way I described. I also don't really care for that idea, which I've expressed elsewhere.

[CLyDeThaMonKeY]

I play mainly russian DDs now and I dont mind having cruisers with radars in the game. Just be aware of what ships has it and what range/duration it has and then stay out of its range.
And then go harass someone else Even after the radar got added to the game, DDs still rules the matches.
There has been that occasional game where no matter where I went there was a radar crusier

As a crusier eqipped with radar is kinda funny tho when a DD actually stops and smokes in front of you

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 Yeah...I think radar cooldow needs to be reduced. 

Are you prepared for flood of traumatised DD captains that *gasp* were actually spotted, or even worse, shot at! Damn those retarded cruiser captains! Why can't they wander here and there while I remain at 7 km from here while being invisible! They ruined everything!

 I understand that's what you think. You're just expressing it in the hypocritical way I described. I also don't really care for that idea, which I've expressed elsewhere.

Clearly, you don't. But, by all means, I will not try to change your point of view, maybe only giggle a bit.

 

[DrCaesar]

Oh yeah, how do you avoid the radar cruisers you don't know are there? What are RU DDs supposed to do, if they'Re not allowed to fire their guns? Oh and, why the [edited]are you even telling me not to fire my guns? They see the smoke, they turn on their radar. Shells or no shells. I'm sorry, but your suggestion to stay outside 10km range is rarely viable. There are many, many situations where it's just not feasible. If it were feasible, Radar would not exist because it would never have been useful from the start.

 

Radar only exist in high tiers as you know and DDs are still out performing other classes in high tier battles(not OP, i don't have any problem with good DD captain and DDs captains in high tiers are good).If you want a proof just get into a high tier battle and 8 out of 10 times there is a DD in top xp(mostly in both teams)

 

Sooo as we can see people are still doing really well in DDs even though there is radar.I can only say try to be more aware of your surroundings, have information about every possible enemy ship such as knowing the radar detection range of different ships is really important

 

[Panzerblitz]

The whole high-tier meta is off because DDs are the Swiss army knife of WOWS and someone complains about a limited consumable with short duration.

 

[AgarwaenME]

The whole high-tier meta is off because DDs are the Swiss army knife of WOWS and someone complains about a limited consumable with short duration.

 

Really? I mean, DDs just dominate CVs don't they.. no wait they're actively hunted as currently they're the best (often only) targets for them, particularly early. Also gunboats just dominate CAs.. no wait, if a CA spots you at ranges where you can land hits on them they'll erase you quickly. Which leaves.. other DDs? Yes some DDs are very good at hunting other DDs, which is why when people like you mindlessly spout "omg 5 DDs on each team" you blindly ignore how many of these DDs will take eachother out. Which leaves.. BBs, which already sits in the back too afraid to approach within 20km of other BBs.

 

Do I mind radar? Not at all as it gives a slightly broader range of opportunities for CAs that lack in some respects. Radar on balti/DM gives these ships another niche which is nice as before this they primarly had the role of "protecting BBs from planes then getting erased by enemy BBs because your teams BBs sat behind your lesser range". In fact, giving these ships the ability to both be amazingly effective against planes, "ok" but situationally so against CAs and BBs, and with a long cooldown ability to use to actively hunt for DDs makes these ships into.. what's that word again.. those things that can be used for many things without being best at anything.. mountain country tool thing.. .. can't remember right at the moment  

[AgarwaenME]

 

 DDs are still out performing other classes in high tier battles

 

Stopped reading right there.

[Cosseria]

I would gladly swap smoke for a chaff launcher/ECM burst to jam radars. With many DD players starting to realise that torping smoke is a good way to score hits, I seldom use smoke nowadays.

[_Teob_]

DDs are still out performing other classes in high tier battles

 

Factually wrong.

 

Radar is fine.

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 I would gladly swap smoke for a chaff launcher/ECM burst to jam radars. With many DD players starting to realise that torping smoke is a good way to score hits, I seldom use smoke nowadays. 

I've written it few times before. DD vs CA, especially US CA, pre - radar was a very one sided fight. A class that was considered to be a DD counter, was fatally handicapped. The only way that CA could do it's "job" was to cooperate with CV. When CV wasn't willing to do so, or was absent (and we all know how many CV's are playing these days), that crippled CA to be blind and frustrated, since it only could spot a DD if the said DD wanted himself to be spotted. Smoke, used defensively, usually covers your mistake in judgement. You didn't read map well enough, played overaggressively etc. When a CA does that, he gets instagibbed by focused CA and BB fire. When DD did that, he just poped smoke and "all was well". Torping smoke is at best unreliable solution. Smoke, when used defensively, is a "way out" or "another chance" for a DD. Which is cool, but can't be 100% foolproof with how the spotting mechanic is implemented. You can't pop smoke defensively, and then retreat from it to safe distance every time. Now you have to outsmart your opponent. Bait the radar out. Dance on the verge of radar range, then vanish and watch if the radar will pop out. Then retreat and wait 30 sec - you're now free to go for 4 minutes. I was playing Fletcher when they introduced radar, and although I'm far less skilled then good DD's skipper, I managed to get nice results in it - so if I can do it, anyone maining DD's wil lhave no problems playing around radar (to an extent of course). 

And radar is a perfect solution for this. Not only it's not overpowered. I mean, only Des Moines and Atlanta have enough firepower to actually kill the DD within the short duration window. Rest of CA's either need support of the team, which, as we all know, is at best rare, or the DD was heavily beaten early in the game. And, let's stop with the nonsense, that when radared the DD is instadead. It's still a nimble target, and unless it's like 5 km from you it still can survive 25 - 35 seconds. It's 3 - 4 salvoes pre-loaded in case of US CA VII - IX and 6 - 7 salvoes in case of Des Moines. And it all boils down to one question - is the DD captain willing to take risk? Cause this is essence of this consumable. You can't dance on the border of your spotting range for 10 minutes while sending wave after wave of torp, and when you screw up, you just pop smoke and retreat to safety - those days are over, as well as AFT CA's, 155 HE shells doing insane damage, US BB's turning on dime, and many other stuff, that needed to be removed. I actually want every CA to have radar, but hydro on tier IX+ GE CA's also somewhat does it's job. 

To sum up - radar is far from overpowered, it's actually pretty balanced, and add's depths both to DD gameplay and CA gameplay

 

[Vulgarny]

JUst acking roll over and die.

[loppantorkel]

To sum up - radar is far from overpowered, it's actually pretty balanced, and add's depths both to DD gameplay and CA gameplay

I agree. This doesn't mean that some changes or even nerfs to some aspects of radar might be beneficial for the game.

[AnotherDuck]

The rest of the team supporting a radar cruiser shooting on a DD is not rare at all. Most of the times I've died due to radar has been by other ships, almost all times I've seen someone been killed due to radar has been by other ships, and I've gotten a fair number of kills in non-radar ships due to radar (which is more kills than some people claim to have gotten with radar). I mean, the argument relies on the radar cruiser being ahead of everyone else, and not hiding behind an island. If the balance relies on teamwork not happening, it's a crappy balance.

[DrCaesar]

@AgarwaenME  isn't that true? Whenever i play t10 games there is always a gunboat/gunboats at the top of xp list

[Meneleus]

Radar is not nearly as gamebreaking as it is portrayed to be. Identify cruisers with radar capability and act appropriately. The 6 minute cooldown is extremely long and the effect duration extremely brief. And yes, I play my Kagero with 8km torpedoes and do a lot better with the ship post-patch.

 

​And who exactly fears a Radar CA in a DD? even with CE CAs have a higher detection range than their Radar range and the Duration only matters if your siting still in a smorecloud and half their Team is preaiming au you wich is highly unlikely to happen.

 

After that ist on loooooong cooldown. Radar is just like 20km IJN Torps. A psychological tool that everybody fears but doesnt do anything unless the oponent is VERY stupid. If you let it existence dictates your Actions your fault. Respect it and your fine in a DD.

 

Plus to sucessfully get into range of a DD he has to come Close to caps.....Most CA dont survive the BB Shells that are bound for them very Long.

 

I agree the reputation of radar far surpasses the danger it poses. It is however very much possible to prep your cruiser for stealth and have a very good indication when there is a destroyer nearby.

 

The Chapayev can have a detection range of 10.2km, having the largest buffer to work with (detection range being 1.5km shorter than radar range). I believe the Atlanta, Baltimore and the Des Moines can have a detection range that slips under their radar range as well, even if it is only barely. The New Orleans and the Dmitri Donskoi can come pretty close (within a few hundred metres), leaving only the Indianapolis and Moskva with a detection range significantly higher than their radar range.

 

Cheers,

 

M

[AnotherDuck]

Khabarovsk, the clearly best performing DD (and lower xp than DM, which is at the top), isn't affected by radar that much. She's more of an agile CL than a DD, and does best outside radar range, where it's hard to hit her, but she can still hit most targets reasonably well (because Russian guns).

 

If you want to go by xp, nerf Des Moines first of all.

 

Shimakaze is the best performing Japanese DD. She's dead last of the tier 10 ships, and below 8 lower tier ships. If any ship needs a buff, she'd be one to pick.

[Fionia_DK]

I play the Shima and the Khaba. I dont recall getting killed in smoke by radar. But I have been killed by torps in smoke.

I also play the Hindi and the Moskva. Hindenburg dont have radar and I dont miss it. Radar is overrated. Some battles I dont get to use it on my Moskva. The ships is not a brawler, so I keep a distance to everything and therefore radar is not used much.

 

Fionia

 

 

 

[Beaker71]

Radar is a pain for USN DDs, as the guns are short range. It's difficult to resist firing from smoke at a BB 7 miles away, but Radar needs to be an option. Ok - a Des using radar behind an island and still being able to spot you is a little unfair - but the game is better for having radar.

 

The long cool down is good, as you really can't afford to waste it - again completely unrealistic - but it's a game after all!

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 Radar is a pain for USN DDs, as the guns are short range. It's difficult to resist firing from smoke at a BB 7 miles away, but Radar needs to be an option. Ok - a Des using radar behind an island and still being able to spot you is a little unfair - but the game is better for having radar.

The long cool down is good, as you really can't afford to waste it - again completely unrealistic - but it's a game after all!

QFT. I'm also kinda against spotting behind islands, but I think it's more of a balancing issue then realistic - it enabled some team cooperation tactics, which is always good. 

 

[Beaker71]

QFT. I'm also kinda against spotting behind islands, but I think it's more of a balancing issue then realistic - it enabled some team cooperation tactics, which is always good. 

 

 

Yes - it's good for the team play. I've only got a New Orleans, but whenever I'm about to use my radar i always give a should out - "Radar in 10s - aim those guns at the smoke/cap" etc. Of course it's annoying when you do spot a pesky DD with Radar, and no other bugger decides to shoot at it!

[Miessa3]

So to sum it up what i learned from this Thread is that Radar is not broken (didn't use "op" on purpose) because its balanced due to the short duration and long cooldown.

So you have to avoid it (the cruisers) at all cost because it is totally not broken. If you are an american DD that HAS TO close in to radar range to do damage, well you are screwed just don't play those bad DDs its clearly your fault.

If you do a perfect stealth ambush on a cruiser with NO RADAR while hiding your aproach with Islands, but got screwed by another cruiser over 10 KILOMETERS away because he descided to use radar because he saw another smokescreen in the cap far away (still in range of the cruiser radar but almost 20 km away from you) well cool the cruisers totally deserved that kill.

And don't argue with "well just avoid cruisers" if you play a normal non domination match and the enemyteam actually know what they are doing and stay together well then you have to close in.

And sometimes you have to kill Cruisers as DD becaue the Battleships are camping and the Cruisers won't go alone.

I think the Cruisers need radar and it should stay in the game. But as it is now it is completely broken and punish DDs even if played perfect and especially the american ones.

It just should spot permanently and not through islands.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

[edited]

[Ictogan]

So to sum it up what i learned from this Thread is that Radar is not broken (didn't use "op" on purpose) because its balanced due to the short duration and long cooldown.

So you have to avoid it (the cruisers) at all cost because it is totally not broken. If you are an american DD that HAS TO close in to radar range to do damage, well you are screwed just don't play those bad DDs its clearly your fault.

If you do a perfect stealth ambush on a cruiser with NO RADAR while hiding your aproach with Islands, but got screwed by another cruiser over 10 KILOMETERS away because he descided to use radar because he saw another smokescreen in the cap far away (still in range of the cruiser radar but almost 20 km away from you) well cool the cruisers totally deserved that kill.

And don't argue with "well just avoid cruisers" if you play a normal non domination match and the enemyteam actually know what they are doing and stay together well then you have to close in.

And sometimes you have to kill Cruisers as DD becaue the Battleships are camping and the Cruisers won't go alone.

I think the Cruisers need radar and it should stay in the game. But as it is now it is completely broken and punish DDs even if played perfect and especially the american ones.

It just should spot permanently and not through islands.

 

Try to bait the radar while at a range where you can still dodge most shells, dodge most shells while being radar'd and have 4 minutes of safety.

[AgarwaenME]

quoted post removed

 

DDs always had the worst odds for survival, so snark like that only makes yo look clueless.