Radar, what the hell am I supposed to do?

[AgarwaenME]

 

This "BB sniping" while not as pronounced in low tiers is especially a prob in high tiers due to high cost and general retardation. WHile i agree 90% with what you say,,the problem with torps and fires in high tiers exist (T9-10). I still remember the fights where there were 6-7 shimas per team and the whole match was a torpedo soup.  

 

The "Omg fires OP" whine is absolute BS for the tiers 1-7 (and perhaps 8). From t9 and onwards though its ridiculous especially with DE added.

 

If WG only reduces repairs a tad,maybe something might change with High Tier BB players....

 

But if far more minor damage sources are "ridiculous", then what is AP soup? Citadel spam? These are the major actual sources of damage, and while fire can be repaired nearly fully, a CA or BB taking multiple citadels (or even normal AP pens) will not be able to repair much back at all.

 

Also, the amount of battles with 6-7 shimas per team? Near to none. Shimas even at the height of their popularity just weren't played at a high enough rate to be able to make that common (and no more common than battles with 6-7 t9-10 BBs per team). It's like "tiger tanks" during WWII, people had a game with 5 random USN/IJN DDs and in their mind those all turned to shimas.

 

Also, the reduced repair cost we had for a while (and that was with ranked flags on top of it even) didn't do anything. People aren't magicly going to grow a spine just because it's slightly less costly to sink.

[Isitari]

 

This "BB sniping" while not as pronounced in low tiers is especially a prob in high tiers due to high cost and general retardation. WHile i agree 90% with what you say,,the problem with torps and fires in high tiers exist (T9-10). I still remember the fights where there were 6-7 shimas per team and the whole match was a torpedo soup.  

 

The "Omg fires OP" whine is absolute BS for the tiers 1-7 (and perhaps 8). From t9 and onwards though its ridiculous especially with DE added.

 

If WG only reduces repairs a tad,maybe something might change with High Tier BB players....

 

It was certainly true when 1/3 to 1/2 of the team were shima's all with long range 15km fast moving torps, but now it's rather different! 

 

But fire damage should decrease as you go up the tiers due to each tier having a higher fire prevention chance more than cancelling out the effect of DE.

Oh found some stats from 0.3 ~ when AFT was still affecting 152mm and even then the fire damage was far smaller in comparison to BB AP. http://imgur.com/a/qaLv7

[duoinvasion]

Any suggestions then apart from stay away from them?

 

People used to say that about CVs, look where they ended up and they're still damn good in the hands of good players but stopped being the insane killing machines they were for basically everyone.

 

As I've said before Radar is needed but when 2 out of the 3 DDs generally have to come into Radar range to have a chance of hitting and they're already the worst performing ships at tier 10 it seems a bit of smack in the face ;).

My post was to the OP BTW (; am bored at work so posted for giggles.

Stay away or bait out radar. My only good advice for this topic.

[Isitari]

My post was to the OP BTW (; am bored at work so posted for giggles.

Stay away or bait out radar. My only good advice for this topic.

 

Fair enough

[AnotherDuck]

So, last I met a radar, it was while I, in a Kamikaze, was parked in the middle of the A cap on Estuary. Two Atlantas were parked behind the islands south of the cap, volleying shots over them. First one of them fires up the radar, and they start shooting at me. Then once that's ticked down, the other Atlanta fires up her radar. Over the course of two radar durations, and during which I sat mostly still, they managed to take about half my health. With cruiser players as crap as that, sure, they need radar. They need any help they can get, and it probably still won't be enough to kill an 11k HP destroyer.

 

1.Torpedo walls are over? Since when? Games are still a godamn torpedo soup at high tiers even though with lower percentages due to Shima changes.

 

Well, torpedo soup is what radar encourages. Have fun.

[Isitari]

So, last I met a radar, it was while I, in a Kamikaze, was parked in the middle of the A cap on Estuary. Two Atlantas were parked behind the islands south of the cap, volleying shots over them. First one of them fires up the radar, and they start shooting at me. Then once that's ticked down, the other Atlanta fires up her radar. Over the course of two radar durations, and during which I sat mostly still, they managed to take about half my health. With cruiser players as crap as that, sure, they need radar. They need any help they can get, and it probably still won't be enough to kill an 11k HP destroyer.

 

 

Well, torpedo soup is what radar encourages. Have fun.

 

Unfortunately at tier 10 the story is very different. My 20K+ HP shima has been killed in 20 seconds on multiple occasions due to radar even whilst piloting away at full speed with flags (44+knots). It normally happens at the beginnings of games where you're trying to cap and you don't know yet where the cruisers are but you need to cap because you're a DD and if you don't the enemy team certainly will. It's a bit of a catch 22. Radar later game can still be effective especially when you've taken some damage but generally it's far easier to survive as people are engaging other targets. Oh and don't get me started on CV's combined with Radar in divisions...

[_GGHF_]

 

Unfortunately at tier 10 the story is very different. My 20K+ HP shima has been killed in 20 seconds on multiple occasions due to radar even whilst piloting away at full speed with flags (44+knots). It normally happens at the beginnings of games where you're trying to cap and you don't know yet where the cruisers are but you need to cap because you're a DD and if you don't the enemy team certainly will. It's a bit of a catch 22. Radar later game can still be effective especially when you've taken some damage but generally it's far easier to survive as people are engaging other targets. Oh and don't get me started on CV's combined with Radar in divisions...

 

That right there is exactly what my problem is. People keep telling me to L2P and to dodge radar ships and to stay out of range. As if that were my choice.

[_x_Acheron_x_]

It's good. It stops those pathetic "im in smoke you cant see me pew pew ima machine gun you for 4 minutes straight hahah im a scrub" dd players.

[159Hunter]

 

That right there is exactly what my problem is. People keep telling me to L2P and to dodge radar ships and to stay out of range. As if that were my choice.

 

Plz, tell me again how radar bothers you in a RU DD?

Also, equip your NO with radar when you have a chance and test it. See if you still consider it OP

[_GGHF_]

 

Plz, tell me again how radar bothers you in a RU DD?

Also, equip your NO with radar when you have a chance and test it. See if you still consider it OP

 

The NO is generally a bit of a disappointment (especially after the upgraded Pensacola) so good use of the radar would rely on other of your team being around to fire at the uncloaked DD. I'm talking about the Atlantas, Des Moines, Zaos and many RU CAs. Atlantas not so much, they need the radar or hiding behind islands is all they could do. They have a short range as well, so they can't as easily take advantage of other ships' radars. Still, if they detect a DD, that DD doesn't even have a chance, and at the start of a game where not only you might smoke, but also the enemy DD, you haven't got a chance to figure out where that Atlanta is coming from. But yeah, most cruisers in Radar range will kill a DD with two salvos and often enough with only one. Except that there RARELY is only that one ship, usually there's another 2 or even 3, in which case the DD gets to live for all of 5 or so seconds. And all because you don't have a bloody choice not to cap, even in a RU DD. It's rare that the team has 3 other DDs that each go to a different cap, which are the only games where Radar doesn't instakill me. 4 DDs aren't that rare, but even then you often have another RU DD along, or the other DDs head for the same cap, or for whatever other reason, you ARE forced to go capping yourself.

[ColonelPete]

No chance against Atlanta?

Keep your distance. With these guns they have a hard time hitting you at 12km+

 

RU DD should not cap alone. Fight with another DD or get air cover (when available). If that is is not possible the team has to push that cap.

[sLendeR4skin]

If you havent figured which ships have radar and which dont the situation is hopeless for you and you should quit

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

So, last I met a radar, it was while I, in a Kamikaze, was parked in the middle of the A cap on Estuary. Two Atlantas were parked behind the islands south of the cap, volleying shots over them. First one of them fires up the radar, and they start shooting at me. Then once that's ticked down, the other Atlanta fires up her radar. Over the course of two radar durations, and during which I sat mostly still, they managed to take about half my health. With cruiser players as crap as that, sure, they need radar. They need any help they can get, and it probably still won't be enough to kill an 11k HP destroyer.

 

Mister_Greek, on 08 August 2016 - 07:08 PM, said:

1.Torpedo walls are over? Since when? Games are still a godamn torpedo soup at high tiers even though with lower percentages due to Shima changes.

 

Well, torpedo soup is what radar encourages. Have fun. 

This topic is golden, and this comment above is just number 1. Love it. 

 

[ghostbuster_]

Oh yeah, how do you avoid the radar cruisers you don't know are there? What are RU DDs supposed to do, if they'Re not allowed to fire their guns? Oh and, why the [edited]are you even telling me not to fire my guns? They see the smoke, they turn on their radar. Shells or no shells. I'm sorry, but your suggestion to stay outside 10km range is rarely viable. There are many, many situations where it's just not feasible. If it were feasible, Radar would not exist because it would never have been useful from the start.

RU DDs are spotted all the time anyways. You shoot your guns non stop. If you sit in smoke like a fish you dont need a radar ca to die. You would die to torps anyway. And like someone said, if you see a radar ca get ready. Radar is not push to win button.

[AnotherDuck]

This topic is golden, and this comment above is just number 1. Love it. 

 

A lot of high-tier mechanics encourage camping. I don't like camping, so I don't do it. I like to play a far more risky playstyle. Otherwise I probably wouldn't enjoy playing destroyers in the first place. It's even more amusing when they realise what I do different. One time someone called me retarded for a specific thing, calling it useless. Because, you know, it's useless, even though it killed her. Actually even more amusing than annoying the crap out of radar cruisers with invisifire.

 

But overall, radar feels kind of like detonations. Rare, but when they happen (by someone who actually realises a clue isn't something you find in the local convenience store, unlike the previously mentioned Atlantas), they're nukes. That's not good balance.

 

Russian DDs don't have a problem with radar, most of the time. They rely on WASD hax, speed, and comfortable range to stay alive. Long-range trollpedo boats don't have much of a problem either.

[ScottishSalmon]

OP, you're right. Radar is an overpowered mechanic. But that's the whole point of it. It's designed specifically to counter DDs who are dancing outside of detection range or hiding in smoke. Its gives the few ships who have radar a chance to fight back instead of having to sit back and take it.

 

Its pretty hard to kill a DD outright when its used though, unless you time it just right - ideally with allied support. It doesn't last long and the cooldown is massive. I think sonar is overall more useful.

[aboomination]

So, last I met a radar, it was while I, in a Kamikaze, was parked in the middle of the A cap on Estuary. Two Atlantas were parked behind the islands south of the cap, volleying shots over them. First one of them fires up the radar, and they start shooting at me. Then once that's ticked down, the other Atlanta fires up her radar. Over the course of two radar durations, and during which I sat mostly still, they managed to take about half my health. With cruiser players as crap as that, sure, they need radar. They need any help they can get, and it probably still won't be enough to kill an 11k HP destroyer.

 

That's a lot of salt, don't belittle their good efforts to ruin your capping attempt 

Meanwhile in the cruiser section http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/53523-atlanta/page__st__100__pid__1210639#entry1210639

 

 Players also learned Atlanta is paper armor and inprecise,  so many DD-s , istead of escaping are now accepting direct fight against Atlanta inflicting heavy damage.

 

 

 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Good and very good players will make radar deadly, while average and new players will get better results with hydro. To use radar to it's full effectiveness one need's quite a lot of experience, captain skilled in camo, and at least basic communication with team or division mates.

 

But for DD skippers, it seems too harsh man. Being spotted results in traumatic experience for them, crying in corner, or dripping foam from mouth, licking walls... Really sad sight. I think we should start some therapy group like: "Violated by Radar" or "One spot can ruin your life".  

 

[AnotherDuck]

That's a lot of salt, don't belittle their good efforts to ruin your capping attempt 

 

Oh, I had already capped at that point. I was mostly just taking a break from gunning down other destroyers. Or at least I think it was that game... Should've saved the replay.

 

Edit: Actually, I did mix it up with a different game. It was actually in the Fubuki, which is a larger (I think) and slower ship (although has far better guns). It was at 8 km range, and I took a little less damage than I thought. I was actually re-capping the base, so that point was true.

 

After that one of the Atlantas got gunned down by other ships, and the other got hit by one of my torps, before also sinking shortly after. It was a T9 game, though, so not a whole lot they could do about the sinking part.

[Blue_Bug]

As a DD player I love the radar. It gives an extra challenge. If you look at the ships that are most played, only a few use Radar. It is quite easy to know those. Every decent player will choose Radar above its plane. You have many games without a CV, but almost all games have DD's. 

 

If you don't like the challenge, don't play DD's. DD play is all or nothing. High risk, High reward. Your detectability range is always lower as the CA with Radar.  Keep your distance from them. They will only use their radar when they know there is a DD around. So in the neighbourhood of a radar CA be extra carefull. With an hight tier US or IJN DD you can try to stealth torp ships and get out of the Radar range.

 

If you are detected by radar it is your mistake or well played by CA player. As an high tier DD player you should know the duration , distance and cooldown of the different radars.

 

 

[AnotherDuck]

There's a fair bit of double standard with radars. If you're in a cruiser, with or without radar, and can't kill a DD, you have a bad ship. If you're in a DD and get killed because of radar, you suck.

[300ConfirmedKills]

I have no problem with radar as a DD player. I got deleted by a cruiser with it in one of my first T8 matches - I changed my tactics so it won't happen again. That said, being able to spot through walls feels a little cheap. The 'assured detection' radius is already enough of that for me. In exchange for removing that capability of radar, I'd prefer if the duration was longer and/or you were given a bearing on ships beyond the current radar range (within an additional 2-4 km) with a margin of error that shrank as you approached the target. Perhaps that could be reserved for ships with the Target Acquisition Systems Mod? TAS still needs buffs to be more competitive with Concealment Mod IMO.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 There's a fair bit of double standard with radars. If you're in a cruiser, with or without radar, and can't kill a DD, you have a bad ship. If you're in a DD and get killed because of radar, you suck.

This sentence might have a little sense, if poor DD's skipper didn't have some magic ability, that once ever 2 minutes or so, they can mystically vanish for considerable amount of time. Oh, right, they have it. If you can't play without smoke - then you suck. Indeed, double standards. 

 

[AnotherDuck]

This sentence might have a little sense, if poor DD's skipper didn't have some magic ability, that once ever 2 minutes or so, they can mystically vanish for considerable amount of time. Oh, right, they have it. If you can't play without smoke - then you suck. Indeed, double standards. 

 

This is the kind of crap I was talking about. A radar is a required and realistic addition. Anything at all relating to DD detectability (in the DD's favour) is hax and magic.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 This is the kind of crap I was talking about. A radar is a required and realistic addition. Anything at all relating to DD detectability is hax and magic. 

You didn't understand. Radar is as long great addition to the game and totally balanced, as long as DD has their smoke ability. If you're willing to drop smoke - CA's will not need radar anymore.