Radar, what the hell am I supposed to do?

[ColonelPete]

The ships with radar are known.

Keep your distance or be ready to bolt any second.

[loppantorkel]

 

1.Torpedo walls are over? Since when? Games are still a godamn torpedo soup at high tiers even though with lower percentages due to Shima changes.

 

2. The Radar does not replace the AA ability but the plane.

 

Its the same situation that many CV players find themselves: They dont know if the US DD carries AA ability or Speed Boost (or Sonar,i dont remember), details that can mess up your game also. 

 

Every class in the game has risks and advantages. Personally i prefer to have a plane cause its a more reliable solution for me. It can still spot crap and it has excellent duration. I run into the risk though of being very vulnerable to DD cause of the lack of Radar.

I wonder how many chooses plane over radar though. Radar seems like a better option. It would seem like a reasonable trade off that a plane could spot over mountains while radar didn't feature x-ray vision...

[Mister_Greek]

While i had the same opinion as you at first, the duration of the radar compared with the reload time puts me off and makes radar very very situational.

 

Plus if you have reached the high ranks by that time,you would have got enough experience to guess where the enemy DD's are.

 

The combination of plane duration/reload time seems more useful as general defense measure compared to the specialized defense radar provides.

 

Plus radar usually acts as a precaution measure due to its short duration. You are rarely able to kill the enemy DD outright but you can mess him quite badly

 

Tested it thoroughly during the pre release phase and the only chance to use it at its full potential is with Divisions,activating it in waves.

 

@Isitari  

 

It depends on the situations used and the mentality of the player.. I prefer to keep it in last effort reserve due to the reload time so i think it can be described as a last measure in my case. 

 

And by the word "Specialised Defence" i am an advocate of "Attack is the best Defense"

[Isitari]

While i had the same opinion as you at first, the duration of the radar compared with the reload time puts me off and makes radar very very situational.

 

Plus if you have reached the high ranks by that time,you would have got enough experience to guess where the enemy DD's are.

 

The combination of plane duration/reload time seems more useful as general defense measure compared to the specialized defense radar provides.

As a DD player I would not describe Radar as defensive, to me it's its incredibly offensive. It allows you to apply damage not dodge torps (like hydro).

[Dee_82]

Without RADAR it was a royal pain in the arse being stalked by a DD wit no means of finding them, it was crap you cant fight against a ship that you cant see, they are faster and unless that DD cpt in really poor, they run rings around anyone, if your lucky you might have an ally DD who can spot them but if you don't, because all your DDs are zoomed off to go cap and couldn't give a stuff about the reset of the team, if you don't have that DD support then your set for a boring match of chase the chost.  RADAR solves that, it has an insanely long cool down time and only lasts a few seconds.   

[Spellfire40]

Turn it on when you're near a DD that isn't spotted or in smoke

Shoot DD

 

Collect delicious salt in chat.

 

​And who exactly fears a Radar CA in a DD? even with CE CAs have a higher detection range than their Radar range and the Duration only matters if your siting still in a smorecloud and half their Team is preaiming au you wich is highly unlikely to happen.

 

After that ist on loooooong cooldown. Radar is just like 20km IJN Torps. A psychological tool that everybody fears but doesnt do anything unless the oponent is VERY stupid. If you let it existence dictates your Actions your fault. Respect it and your fine in a DD.

 

Plus to sucessfully get into range of a DD he has to come Close to caps.....Most CA dont survive the BB Shells that are bound for them very Long.

[loppantorkel]

And who exactly fears a Radar CA in a DD? even with CE CAs have a higher detection range than their Radar range and the Duration only matters if your siting still in a smorecloud and half their Team is preaiming au you wich is highly unlikely to happen.

 

After that ist on loooooong cooldown. Radar is just like 20km IJN Torps. A psychological tool that everybody fears but doesnt do anything unless the oponent is VERY stupid. If you let it existence dictates your Actions your fault. Respect it and your fine in a DD.

This isn't entirely true. It's like saying all radarcruiser players are dumb. It's possible to punish dds pretty hard without them making silly mistakes.

[LeonardoBlue]

ANYTHING can kill a DD with a single salvo, except another DD with it's guns.

 

I've never seen the guns of my Atago doing 3300 damge with HE when I hit DDs. A good salvo does 6000 damage. So let's just do the math ... It will take me around 3 to 4 salvos to sink you in your little Destroyer with almost every Cruiser that packs 8inch guns. That is 45 Seconds or almost one minute to kill you. The radar lasts for 30 Seconds so I need to be accurate because I will only get 2 or 3 rounds towards you before you'll disappear again.

 

And how exactly am I supposed to see which CA has radar

 

It can't be so hard to remember what ship potentially has radar equipped.

 

Now there are only 3 non premium US Cruisers out there that can do that. And two ships with radar of the US Cruiser line are premium ships that are less likely to be seen. And even then there is only a few Russian cruisers that will bugger you in your so called "rather harmless Destroyer". I noticed more than once that I took up to 2400 damage when a Destroyer shot hit waves of HE at me. That is certainly powerful for something that you can't even see. And you can't really shoot back either because all estimates of a Destroyer in the Smoke can be absolutely correct but then there's Wargamings great "Aim Asisstance" coming in, so that your shells land in front of the smoke or somewhere else where you clearly not aimed for. 

 

 

EVERY DAMN game ends with me being killed because of the fuckin radar.

 

And if you're clearly mad with your Tier right now, have you considered changing for a bit? Going down to Tier V or VI?

 

When was the last time a DD killed anything with a single salvo from their guns?

 

How often do you see cruisers and carriers - Hell! - even Battleships do this? I bet not very. Because full life targets take a while until they're done for. Personally, since the new penetration ribbons, I feel like the average damage is a bit less than before. 

 

 

those 200k damage numbers every game you get on BBs

 

And I hope you're not serious about that. 'Cause if you think that this is how it looks like beeing a BB captain I can say you: IT IS NOT! I may be a Cruiser Captain, but I play the japanese Battleship line aswell. And I get around 70.000 to 100.000 damage for a good game. If you really think battleships do that much damage, you need to think again how many HP points exist in these battles and how they are shared over the whole team. 

 

 

So please think a bit about the Situation again and try to get rid of any cruiser or battleship bias. Otherwise I'll introduce you to my Atlanta

(Am I the only one who thinks that the block quote system looks incredibly ugly?)

[Isitari]

Without RADAR it was a royal pain in the arse being stalked by a DD wit no means of finding them, it was crap you cant fight against a ship that you cant see, they are faster and unless that DD cpt in really poor, they run rings around anyone, if your lucky you might have an ally DD who can spot them but if you don't, because all your DDs are zoomed off to go cap and couldn't give a stuff about the reset of the team, if you don't have that DD support then your set for a boring match of chase the chost.  RADAR solves that, it has an insanely long cool down time and only lasts a few seconds.   

 

I wouldn't call https://fleetreview-wows.com/2016/02/21/new-consumable-surveillance-radar/ these duration's and ranges especially when stacked with vigilance (so add 30% to those ranges) 'a few seconds'. Its an almost no skill one button press autowin button against DDs especially as it goes through islands, which might have been an attack run the DD might have been planning for several minutes a tactic particularly employed by USN DD's and might be partially attributive to their appalling win rate compared with their compatriots.

 

I realise too many people play DD, but I'd rather they just limited them to 3 per match and I had to wait a little longer.

[Kysmet]

I play both DDs and cruisers (an Atlanta at that). I don't see Radar as an issue. I will not use radar unless I have a reason to do so. There's only 2-3 charges and the cooldown is pretty long.

 

Unless you mess up and let me know you're in the area I won't use it. If you smoke up and park inside the smoke, you're a free kill. If you use smoke intelligently (like, drop smoke and get the hell out of there), you make me waste a radar charge and you live. If you continuously get found with radar, you're being predictable and need to change your tactics.

[Tungstonid]

 

I wouldn't call https://fleetreview-wows.com/2016/02/21/new-consumable-surveillance-radar/ these duration's and ranges especially when stacked with vigilance (so add 30% to those ranges) 'a few seconds'. Its an almost no skill one button press autowin button against DDs especially as it goes through islands, which might have been an attack run the DD might have been planning for several minutes a tactic particularly employed by USN DD's and might be partially attributive to their appalling win rate compared with their compatriots.

 

I realise too many people play DD, but I'd rather they just limited them to 3 per match and I had to wait a little longer.

 

Last time I checked "Vigilance" increased the range of which you can spot torpedoes. So it has no effects whatsoever on your radar range since you can't spot torpedoes with radar. Maybr you mix it up with hydroacoustic search?

[JG4_sKylon]

 even with CE CAs have a higher detection range than their Radar range 

 

Please check the Chapajew with CE... i don´t remember the exact values (moved the cot to Dim.Don.) but you should have a "stealth radar window" of approx 1km, bit more or less. It was really fun roflstomping 3 enemy DDs who played very well (1 or 2 in smoke, 1 always spotting).

[LeonardoBlue]

Its an almost no skill one button press autowin button against DDs especially as it goes through islands

 

Damn you're right! Because my ships get aimlock, can fire without reload and most importantly though ISLANDS, when I activate radar.... really? Should your attack runs be unstoppable? Or in particular you should be unstoppable? This is such a typical case of "this is op because it can stop me for something I do". 

[plammbeach]

Regarding Radar:

 

1. Most importantly and what most people don't realise is that Radar stacks with Vigilance. Therefore a Moskva can spot up to 13km away with Radar, potentially very nasty.

 

Radar doesnt stack with vigilance, hydro does.!

[Isitari]

 

Damn you're right! Because my ships get aimlock, can fire without reload and most importantly though ISLANDS, when I activate radar.... really? Should your attack runs be unstoppable? Or in particular you should be unstoppable? This is such a typical case of "this is op because it can stop me for something I do". 

 

Ironically I don't do this much as I don't play many USN DDs .

 

And dodging my attack run is relatively straight forward as it is:

 

1. Don't sail in straight lines

2. Have vigilance

3. profit...?

[Isitari]

 

Radar doesnt stack with vigilance, hydro does.!

 

That's good to know but:

1. I've been told by others it does.

2. I've been spotted by Moskva's at over 12km. Again this is what the Moskva told me so it is anecdotal.

 

I'll happily be proved wrong though

 

Edit: Apologies checked it for myself, it seems it was a bug from test server: http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/50048-updateradar-sonar-gui-bugmost-likely/

[LeonardoBlue]

1. Don't sail in straight lines

2. Have vigilance

3. profit...?

 

Point one does most of the work for you anyway. The vigilance is kind of risky after all. 

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

Tell me. When did an invisi-firing DD last kill you with a single salvo, without getting that lucky Detonation? Tell me, how many times greater armor and HP does a BB have over a DD? Tell me, when was the last time a BB had his HP repair voided by a blanket-360°-almost-your-firing-range-instant-activation skill? How long has it been, that people have known how to time and WASD-hack torpedoes?

 

Most of the time one can rely on their mobility to help them survive, but it's just not always possible. What if you need to be in one place long enough to cap? Maybe you're trying to smoke an allied cruiser who bit off too much? There are lots and lots of cases where smoke is the DD's version of armor. It doesn't even mean you're invulnerable, many people actually know how to approximate a DDs position in their smoke and how to hit them. Torps also are wonderful deterrents to smoke-camping. Radar is just one step too far, it not only makes the DDs most important, trademark skill utterly useless, unlike cruisers or battleships they don't HAVE anything else to survive when they're using that smoke.

 

DDs already pay for their stealth with low damage and low survivability. ANYTHING can kill a DD with a single salvo, except another DD with it's guns. DDs can burn you to death but doing so takes minutes, several minutes. The damage they do, if they're not IJN torpedo boats is laughable compared to that of a BB or even a cruiser. It's good enough to have a psychological effect, but it's only that, annoying but not overwhelming. When was the last time a DD killed anything with a single salvo from their guns? You can mostly only speak of torpedos if you're an IJN DD with reliable ones, or maybe even a high tier USN DD. Not if you're RU and the slow speed of your torps makes a hit more a matter of luck than anything else. Not to mention that even if they do hit, you don't do that much damage.

 

Yeah, the good old days. You know, those same good old days allowed the DDs to spam torpedo walls. They're not around anymore, but the radar still is.

 

 

And how exactly am I supposed to see which CA has radar? How do I know they're not using AA instead? It's a [edited]unreliable toss-up you can't bloody use in a battle. Not to mention that you're the one doing the spotting for your team. If ANYBODY has no idea what's coming for you, it'd be a DD scouting in the front line.

 

​I never said you can get one salvo killed by an invisi firing DD. But the high rate of fire, combined speed and agility, can make it extremely difficult to combat.

 

As Far as WASD-hack to evade torpedo's. A CV's torpedo's, yes. A DD with more than one torpedo launcher? not if the DD player actually knows what he is doing. Just turning into the spread will not help you, as there isn't always a gap to go for. Assuming you can turn in time. If your rudder was full on lock in the other direction, and a DD you didn't know about, because it was invisible, has a full spread of torps coming your way, you don't always have a hope in hell in getting out of the way.

 

As for paying for your stealth with a lack of survivability. You need to use your speed and agility a lot more. Plus, I very rarely see a DD one shot killed.

 

Just because you are capping in a DD, doesn't mean you just sit there in smoke and not move. I mean, seriously? you are faster than anything else, and more agile than anything else. You should try hitting a DD with a 2 round a minute BB, when the DD is bobbing and weaving like a nutter.

[Isitari]

I think to sum this thread up:

 

1. Radar is needed for cruisers to do their job.

2. DDs that need to get close to do their job either through torping or USN guns are both suffering from worse tier 10 win criteria (XP, win rate etc.)

3. Too many DDs being played at top tiers hence 'nerfs' to DDs or no buffs.

4. Notice the tier 10 doing well doesn't need to get close and can drop smoke outside radar range and still be highly effective (Khar).

*Radar working through islands is contentious as ever . I'd argue its risky enough getting that close to a cruiser and having very few escape routes in a DD but hey, that's for another thread

 

[AgarwaenME]

 

1.Torpedo walls are over? Since when? Games are still a godamn torpedo soup at high tiers even though with lower percentages due to Shima changes.

 

2. The Radar does not replace the AA ability but the plane.

 

Its the same situation that many CV players find themselves: They dont know if the US DD carries AA ability or Speed Boost (or Sonar,i dont remember), details that can mess up your game also. 

 

Every class in the game has risks and advantages. Personally i prefer to have a plane cause its a more reliable solution for me. It can still spot crap and it has excellent duration. I run into the risk though of being very vulnerable to DD cause of the lack of Radar.

 

I'd rather say games are a.. "BB sitting at max range because they're too scared to approach other BBs which they know are what really hurts them but they need some stupid excuse that's more than "I'm afraid of other BBs" so they still cry about torpedoes and CVs and HE and fire though every patch because that is all they can manage to come up with" - soup.

[Isitari]

 

I'd rather say games are a.. "BB sitting at max range because they're too scared to approach other BBs which they know are what really hurts them but they need some stupid excuse that's more than "I'm afraid of other BBs" so they still cry about torpedoes and CVs and HE and fire though every patch because that is all they can manage to come up with" - soup.

 

Just look at the average damage of BBs vs other classes to back up your statement . To others yes I know that their CV's at tier 10 do higher avg damage but often you won't even find 1 on a team never mind the 3-4 BBs you get normally per team.

[Capra76]

I think to sum this thread up:......... Too many DDs being played at top tiers hence 'nerfs' to DDs or no buffs.

 

Far more BB than DD at higher tiers these days, especially if you exclude the Russian CL DD, and with German BB on the way it's likely to get worse.

 

[duoinvasion]

Learn to play against radar?

I could say how to but it's more fun to watch you make more threads like this

[Isitari]

 

Far more BB than DD at higher tiers these days, especially if you exclude the Russian CL DD, and with German BB on the way it's likely to get worse.

 

 

True, I'm looking forward to those massive turning circles on the German BBs!

 

Learn to play against radar?

I could say how to but it's more fun to watch you make more threads like this

Any suggestions then apart from stay away from them?

 

People used to say that about CVs, look where they ended up and they're still damn good in the hands of good players but stopped being the insane killing machines they were for basically everyone.

 

As I've said before Radar is needed but when 2 out of the 3 DDs generally have to come into Radar range to have a chance of hitting and they're already the worst performing ships at tier 10 it seems a bit of smack in the face ;).

[Mister_Greek]

 

I'd rather say games are a.. "BB sitting at max range because they're too scared to approach other BBs which they know are what really hurts them but they need some stupid excuse that's more than "I'm afraid of other BBs" so they still cry about torpedoes and CVs and HE and fire though every patch because that is all they can manage to come up with" - soup.

 

This "BB sniping" while not as pronounced in low tiers is especially a prob in high tiers due to high cost and general retardation. WHile i agree 90% with what you say,,the problem with torps and fires in high tiers exist (T9-10). I still remember the fights where there were 6-7 shimas per team and the whole match was a torpedo soup.  

 

The "Omg fires OP" whine is absolute BS for the tiers 1-7 (and perhaps 8). From t9 and onwards though its ridiculous especially with DE skill added.

 

If WG only reduces repairs a tad,maybe something might change with High Tier BB players....