New Orleans - need advice with this ugly duckling

[GulvkluderGuld]

So I took up my New Orleans, fully upgraded and with a 12 point captain in it. 

And I seem to be placed in Tier IX matches 9/10 games (the 10th being the odd Tier X match). 

 

I'm primarily a DD player, but I also play BB and CV.  

I can carry hard in any gunboat, US BB or low tier CV. But I can't seem to get CAs to work for me, except for the utility part of it (Radar, DF, escorting).

The problem is nothing seems ever to enter my range, and that is boring and makes me run a deficit.

 

NO has amazing AP and I've landed many good citadels with her, but her ROF is bad, she can only use two turrets, and most importantly - she is always outranged.

Her concealment is amazing - 10.8 km with module - but with DDs in game she will almost always be spotted anyway.

And with everybody focusing CAs, I dare not put her rear turret to work. 

In short, she feels like my North Carolina, except mostly an inferior version that packs some utility.

 

Thus I am mostly reduced to 

1) If there is a CV in the game - great - I pick myself a BB to escort and usually wreck any planes and DDs venturing into my range

2) Stick around whatever cover I can find - islands or smokescreens -  and try to keep in cover from all but my one target.

3) Escort DDs to the caps at the start, park behind a handy island and use Radar.

4) otherwise play her like NC - go bow in. If things turn sour, slam her into reverse and pray.

 

So my question to you guys is: How do you play her? How do you handle tier 9/10 games? 

Also, how do get any damage done? If I do 40k I consider it a good game. 20-30k is more the average (I do usually survive though).

My avg damage in this ship is lower than any of my gunboat dds, so clearly I must be doing smth wrong.

[VC381]

Well, firstly I don't think you're doing anything wrong as such. NO is a hard ship to play, as are all T8 cruisers that get screwed by the MM, and your damage isn't far off server average.

 

It's weird because she performs badly but there's nothing about her that's specifically bad. Even the range that you mention is more than Mogami/Atago so it's not the worst point about her. RoF is also better than IJN although of course it will feel slow coming from DD.

 

Having said that, I do enjoy the ship although my stats are only slightly better than yours. I feel going bow in is viable but wastes another of the ships strong points, the amazing agility. Rudder shift and turning circle are amazing, as is speed retention in a turn. What I try to do is use the concealment to judge the battle and go where the enemy BBs aren't, or making sure I shoot when their guns aren't pointed at me. I prefer staying full power and dancing to dodge fire. It's a fine balance and doesn't always work, but as you saw the AP is great so you can put the hurt on higher tier cruisers when you get the chance.

 

So I don't have any magic tricks to make her carry and get 100k damage but if you have a good survival rate that's a good start you can build on. I think you should just enjoy the ship for what it is, it's a T8 cruiser and that's hard work right from the start. I like how she feels, as I said agility and good turret turn make her smooth and not frustrating to sail. Just tread carefully. Also I object to ugly duckling probably one of the most beautiful cruisers of the period as far as I'm concerned. That and the history of the class make me enjoy playing her more.

 

Oh, add me in game if you feel like doing NO divisions. I don't promise I'll do better than you but at least there will be two of us to take advantage of RADAR, focus enemies etc.

 

Good luck!

[cro_pwr]

the shell arcs are horrible on that ship, so every usn cruiser from t8-10 suffers greatly from that.

because of that, they are best played as a stealthy brawlers (pretty much one trick pony).

aka use your concealment, get to 11 km away from enemy broadside cruiser, turn your bow to them, and wreck them with AP.

if you try to engage any other cruiser at 15km away, you will loose that fight, simply because of horrible shell arcs / slow shells, that are easy to dodge even in a BB, let alone cruiser...

and dont yolo in to use your radar, you will die in 2 mins, rather save it for the times when enemy DD made a mistake and came too close...

[VC381]

the shell arcs are horrible on that ship, so every usn cruiser from t8-10 suffers greatly from that.

because of that, they are best played as a stealthy brawlers (pretty much one trick pony).

aka use your concealment, get to 11 km away from enemy broadside cruiser, turn your bow to them, and wreck them with AP.

if you try to engage any other cruiser at 15km away, you will loose that fight, simply because of horrible shell arcs / slow shells, that are easy to dodge even in a BB, let alone cruiser...

and dont yolo in to use your radar, you will die in 2 mins, rather save it for the times when enemy DD made a mistake and came too close...

 

The shell arcs are same on Pensacola, NO and stock Baltimore. Only Baltimore second guns and DM have worse arcs. Yes they're higher than other cruisers but I think saying that on NO the arcs are so bad a BB can dodge is a bit of an exaggeration...

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

It's not you mate, it's New Orleans

 

[Sub_Eleven]

New Orleans is gorgeous but her dpm is lacking a bit. best advice I can give you, is try to get your captain up to 15 points as soon as you can. The difference between 10.8 and 9.5 km detection range is considerable and will make your life much much easyer. If you happen to have a USN premium ship (I used the Indianapolis) level the captain on that first, it will save you some headaches.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

I had one of my best NO games when my aft turret was obliterated by the first BB AP salvo I took. I took no or only little damage but lost that turret anyway. From that moment on I learned what bowtanking truly means The loss of your aft turret completely prevents you from even slightly showing your sides to anyone, and NO's vertical bow armor is superb thanks to the pointy angle and her narrow hull. Only watch out for plunging fire that still pens your deck armor with ease.

Maybe go with option 4 and try to pretend you lost your aft turret, no matter how good the gun angle is?

[cro_pwr]

 

The shell arcs are same on Pensacola, NO and stock Baltimore. Only Baltimore second guns and DM have worse arcs. Yes they're higher than other cruisers but I think saying that on NO the arcs are so bad a BB can dodge is a bit of an exaggeration...

 

OK, they can't, if they don't press A/D on their keyboard.

 

[piritskenyer]

 

OK, they can't, if they don't press A/D on their keyboard.

 

 

NO fires the 853m/s AP shells, which is faster than IJN shells. Check it.

 

It's the god-damned B-more and DM that fire superheavy shells at some 765m/s.

[cro_pwr]

 

NO fires the 853m/s AP shells, which is faster than IJN shells. Check it.

 

It's the god-damned B-more and DM that fire superheavy shells at some 765m/s.

 

I know that baltiless and DM have even lazier shells, but I don't remember NO being particulary good in long range engagements as well... Maybe I should play it once again (LOL NOPE) to refresh my memory.

[piritskenyer]

The shell arcs are not as bad as you're trying to make it look, it's all we're trying to say. Plus if you have nothing comstructive to add to the poor guy's topic, why bother at all? 

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 I know that baltiless and DM have even lazier shells, but I don't remember NO being particulary good in long range engagements as well... Maybe I should play it once again (LOL NOPE) to refresh my memory. 

It's not, cause it has 16,4 km range, which, in 99% of engagements, goes quickly down to 14 km range. NO is just crap. End of the story. Yeah, in some games you will do some crazy stuff, in others you will die quickly, as with all cruisers. But, and this is the main problem, when the situation calls for you to do the "carrying" part, when you're focused, when you need to eliminate your targets quickly and exploit their mistakes to maximum, that's where NO is just a big DENIED. However, I've already written shitloads of how bad NO is and how much it buggers me, so I just wanted to pat Gulvkluder on back, and show him the ultimate goal, the Arc of Freedom, the Unending Oil Well, and the Cradle of Delicious Hamburgers, which is the Des Moines - endure the pain of NO, and you will be worthy to be called a "HE spammer" with 203 mm guns. 

 

[S4h3L]

real pain comes with Baltimore

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Baltimore has HP regen. Baltimore has armour that actually does it's work against other CA's, Baltimore has slightly better RoF and freedom AP shells. It's still crap, but it's less crappy then NO, which is just tier VII CA placed on tier VIII.

[ShinGetsu]

A well played NO is actually a huge pain in the arse for any BB in her range.

Her main strenght is the maniability and size. NO is a nimble small ship. Staying at 12-14km and spamming either AP or HE makes it horrendous for a BB that will struggle to hit her and waste some precious time and HP trying to catch the pesky spammer.

 

And no, NO's arc are nowhere near bad. They are the same as Atago and every other IJN 203 from Aoba to Ibuki.

[S4h3L]

Baltimore has HP regen. Baltimore has armour that actually does it's work against other CA's, Baltimore has slightly better RoF and freedom AP shells. It's still crap, but it's less crappy then NO, which is just tier VII CA placed on tier VIII.

 

its true that Baltimore has more hp (finaly bcs from T6 to T8 its almost same hp pool) and hp regen but he is bigger, less agile and any shot from BBs is penetration or worse 

about armor, I cant count how many german cruisers switched to HE against my NOrleans from pure frustration bcs they have done nothing to my frontal armor only scratching my superstructures so armor on NO is OK

Baltimore has AP with bigger alfa and better penetration but slower travel time and his guns has worse dispersion than NO so its funny that at long range NO is doing more dmg than Balti bcs she can actualy hit her target

and one last thing - concealment NO has 9,5km max spot and Baltimore 9,7km, 200m its no difference at all

BUT from air its 5,9km for NO and 7,3km for Baltimore and this is big difference that makes surprise ambush less doable

both NO and Balti are cruisers with worst perfomance on their tiers - its fact not just my opinion, but in NOrlaeans I can have fun, its challegne but I can. In Baltimore on onther hand its just pain and suffering

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

and any shot from BBs is penetration or worse 

It;s the same for NO, or worse. And it actually hurts more, cause you have less HP tier vs tier, and you don't have Repair Party. So when that happens, it hurts much more on NO, cause you can't vanish and repair.

 

 about armor, I cant count how many german cruisers switched to HE against my NOrleans from pure frustration bcs they have done nothing to my frontal armor only scratching my superstructures so armor on NO is OK

Then you must be doing something wrong, cause Baltimore is unpenetrable fortress for other CA when showing only front. And you might be experiencing more HE shots from GE CA's, cause their HE were recently buffed, so it became a viable choice for angled opponents (for me it always was, but now it's just better).

 Baltimore has AP with bigger alfa and better penetration but slower travel time and his guns has worse dispersion than NO so its funny that at long range NO is doing more dmg than Balti bcs she can actualy hit her target

Again, I had no problems with hitting BB's at 17+ km range. Yeah, no full 9 hits, but 4 - 5, enough to set fires - and that;s what matters. On close range, using camo, you again fare much better then NO, cause after sinking your opponent, you can replenish your HP. No can't do that.  

and one last thing - concealment NO has 9,5km max spot and Baltimore 9,7km, 200m its no difference at all

BUT from air its 5,9km for NO and 7,3km for Baltimore and this is big difference that makes surprise ambush less doable

It is true, but on the other hand, you have much better AA and radar that goes 9,5 km range with more uptime, and faster reload, not much, but still. Which means, that you have better chances to actually seal the deal when you spring your ambush.

 

 both NO and Balti are cruisers with worst perfomance on their tiers - its fact not just my opinion, but in NOrlaeans I can have fun, its challegne but I can. In Baltimore on onther hand its just pain and suffering

That, I agree. Recently bought Ibuki and I'm astounded how good she is. Roon was also a pleasure to play. Baltimore is meh, NO is very bad. But, to each it's own, if you have fun in NO and not in Balti - you're absolutely free to proceed. But, objectively, Baltimore is better on it's tier, than NO is on it's own. 

 

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

Thank you all for your replies!

 

I actually rather like playing her, and the bowtanking aspect is montrous. It is her horrible shell-arcs I've got problems with.

It's not, cause it has 16,4 km range, which, in 99% of engagements, goes quickly down to 14 km range. NO is just crap. End of the story. Yeah, in some games you will do some crazy stuff, in others you will die quickly, as with all cruisers. But, and this is the main problem, when the situation calls for you to do the "carrying" part, when you're focused, when you need to eliminate your targets quickly and exploit their mistakes to maximum, that's where NO is just a big DENIED. However, I've already written shitloads of how bad NO is and how much it buggers me, so I just wanted to pat Gulvkluder on back, and show him the ultimate goal, the Arc of Freedom, the Unending Oil Well, and the Cradle of Delicious Hamburgers, which is the Des Moines - endure the pain of NO, and you will be worthy to be called a "HE spammer" with 203 mm guns. 

 

Didnt realize it, but this is EXACTLY my problem with the NO. 

I had one of my best NO games when my aft turret was obliterated by the first BB AP salvo I took. I took no or only little damage but lost that turret anyway. From that moment on I learned what bowtanking truly means The loss of your aft turret completely prevents you from even slightly showing your sides to anyone, and NO's vertical bow armor is superb thanks to the pointy angle and her narrow hull. Only watch out for plunging fire that still pens your deck armor with ease.

Maybe go with option 4 and try to pretend you lost your aft turret, no matter how good the gun angle is?

Bowtanking is my second nature with NO due to my experience with the NC, I do it all the time.

It is monstrously effective, but it is strictly a last resort for me, since NO is easily outranged and suffers from horrible hitting problems at long range vs anything but BBs.

New Orleans is gorgeous but her dpm is lacking a bit. best advice I can give you, is try to get your captain up to 15 points as soon as you can. The difference between 10.8 and 9.5 km detection range is considerable and will make your life much much easyer. If you happen to have a USN premium ship (I used the Indianapolis) level the captain on that first, it will save you some headaches.

Noted that concealment will improve her. However I do not own a US premium ship.

the shell arcs are horrible on that ship, so every usn cruiser from t8-10 suffers greatly from that.

because of that, they are best played as a stealthy brawlers (pretty much one trick pony).

aka use your concealment, get to 11 km away from enemy broadside cruiser, turn your bow to them, and wreck them with AP.

if you try to engage any other cruiser at 15km away, you will loose that fight, simply because of horrible shell arcs / slow shells, that are easy to dodge even in a BB, let alone cruiser...

and dont yolo in to use your radar, you will die in 2 mins, rather save it for the times when enemy DD made a mistake and came too close...

This is EXACTLY my problem with the ship. Along with slow ROF these arcs makes hitting stuff >12 km almost impossible to hit.

Will try the stealthy brawler build.

I'm thinking the NO is probably best used in the later stages of the game, since ambushing relies on having isolated targets to shoot.

[piritskenyer]

Problem hitting stuff at 12k? Are we talking about the same guns? The same ship? I dislike the ship so far, but not because of her guns. Far from it. The guns are the same as one tier lower, and maybe it's because I'm a Pensacan and had a lot of practice, but I find the guns to be quite confortable. They fly flat and true and when 5 of them hit under the funnels, the enemy ship suddely has a whole lot of world of pain to deal with.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Probably because I havn't been playing NO/Pensa for a long loong time and I'm used to BB shell arcs.

12 km is the distance I can pretty much guarantee hits on other things than BB. Anything more and CAs have time to use wasd-hacks. From 14-16 km it gets hard to even hit them.

 

The Ap is very good though.

[T_H_0_R]

Baltimore has HP regen. Baltimore has armour that actually does it's work against other CA's, Baltimore has slightly better RoF and freedom AP shells. It's still crap, but it's less crappy then NO, which is just tier VII CA placed on tier VIII.

 

its true that Baltimore has more hp (finaly bcs from T6 to T8 its almost same hp pool) and hp regen but he is bigger, less agile and any shot from BBs is penetration or worse 

about armor, I cant count how many german cruisers switched to HE against my NOrleans from pure frustration bcs they have done nothing to my frontal armor only scratching my superstructures so armor on NO is OK

Baltimore has AP with bigger alfa and better penetration but slower travel time and his guns has worse dispersion than NO so its funny that at long range NO is doing more dmg than Balti bcs she can actualy hit her target

and one last thing - concealment NO has 9,5km max spot and Baltimore 9,7km, 200m its no difference at all

BUT from air its 5,9km for NO and 7,3km for Baltimore and this is big difference that makes surprise ambush less doable

both NO and Balti are cruisers with worst perfomance on their tiers - its fact not just my opinion, but in NOrlaeans I can have fun, its challegne but I can. In Baltimore on onther hand its just pain and suffering

 

I found Baltimore way more fun than New Orleans, and due to her phenomenal armor & heal you can actually do something in the game i.e. get out when getting is good unlike NO which eats cit pens from almost every angle except from the bow on. Precision wise, I found her more accurate than NO.

 

I almost gave up on the line with NO. Loved Pensa to death but NO was a huge downside for me. Baltimore after her - a breath of fresh air. Although not having tried other cruiser lines at that tier I will trust others that per say she is mediocre with only saving grace being radar that can work wonders when in a pack with other cruisers. If you think NO is tanky bow on, Balmer is nearly impenetrable by anything but +16" shells.

 

NO isn't a bad ship. It is the tier she is in - you don't have DPS, torps or anything that would make you stand out over other cruisers except radar which is useless unless in a group of other ships. Even AA is mediocre after 0.5.3 range nerfs. Hipper and Kutuzov are so much better AA platforms than NO.

 

All T8 cruisers live a hard life, but NO suffers the most from being bottom tier so often in T10 games. Pensa would too, except she is as much top tier as NO is bottom tier.

 

15pt captain helps to keep your sanity with 9.5km concealment, but doesn't help in carrying games which this ship is so hard to do with.

 

 

[damo74]

I think the problem with the New Orleans, and to an extent all other T8 cruisers, is that it finds itself up against T9-10 too often. I haven't had New Orleans long and it's my only T8 ship. But I don't think I've yet to have a game where T8 is the top tier.

 

The New Orleans is mediocre, but I'll happily take mediocre over the toilet that was the Pensacola. I'm currently grinding up the German cruiser line now as all German cruisers after T5 seem to be very good. yes even the Yorck which I am enjoying.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

 I found Baltimore way more fun than New Orleans, and due to her phenomenal armor & heal you can actually do something in the game i.e. get out when getting is good unlike NO which eats cit pens from almost every angle except from the bow on. Precision wise, I found her more accurate than NO.

Oh, and Baltimore doesn't have the giant weakspot of NO, which is the rear hangar - guaranteed citadels from stern. It's incredibly fkin frustrating, when CA gameplay often is hit and run tactic, and you can't run, cause you will be blown out of water while being [edited]-raped by BB shells. I played few games with NO this weekend, and now I remember why I hate doing it

 NO isn't a bad ship. It is the tier she is in - you don't have DPS, torps or anything that would make you stand out over other cruisers except radar which is useless unless in a group of other ships. Even AA is mediocre after 0.5.3 range nerfs. Hipper and Kutuzov are so much better AA platforms than NO.

I've written a big guide for CA skippers in PL section, and NO was my latest addition to the guide. When I actually sat, and thought (meditated under waterfall of BB shells) what is NO good at. Well, she kinda can brawl, but she has the least amount of HP. She also doesn't have torps for this finishing moves or deterrent. And that's it. She can't kite, cause of this stupid weakspot, she can't escort, cause her AA is weaker then few BB's and CA's, she can't hunt DD's with 14s reload guns with average balistics. I mean, cmoooon. She's worse then Atlanta, which at least has it's DD-wrecker niche. 

 

 

[Sub_Eleven]

I think the problem with the New Orleans, and to an extent all other T8 cruisers, is that it finds itself up against T9-10 too often.

 

Not true for all other cruisers. The Kutuzov for example doesn't care which tier it fights, it does very well vs everything. New Orleans, not so much . Difference between New Orleans and Kutuzov is night and day.

[T_H_0_R]

 

Not true for all other cruisers. The Kutuzov for example doesn't care which tier it fights, it does very well vs everything. New Orleans, not so much . Difference between New Orleans and Kutuzov is night and day.

 

Part of what makes Indianapolis great for me is her range. Kutuzov has crazy good range and ballistics o match. Add to it insanely OP AA for the tier she is in - no wonder she does great in T10 battles which most often end start or even finish as camping / sniping fests.