Preferential Matchmaking for Arizona and Warspite Needed

[TheIdesOfMarch93]

I'm the proud owner of my Arizona and I've got no complaints about the ship at all. But there is one issue that bugs me badly, and that is how often I get into extremely lopsided battles where I'm nothing but XP pinata for other ships to munch on. 

 

Wargaming is no stranger to giving preferential matchmaking for premium stuff, and I find that in the case of the battleships Arizona and Warspite both ships could really do with some MM help to prevent them from getting into impossible battles. Battles like running into North Carolinas and Amagis and generally any ship that is Tier 8. Dealing with Colorado and Nagato is already dangerous enough because Arizona's armor cannot take 16-inch alpha damage hits well when angled and will get absolutely massacred if I show my broadside (as I rightly should be punished for!), the last thing I need is to get into a battle with a North Carolina on the other side with 21+km range compared to mine which is barely 16km without range module upgrades. And don't even get me started on going against CVs, Arizona already has weak AA due to her following historical layouts that never saw her AA systems upgraded, so dealing with T6 CVs is already a pain in the arse. I really don't need to have some Lexington or Shokaku ROFLSTOMP all over me when they see me in their match because they know their planes are too fast for me to dodge, my AA guns can't kill their planes, and even with cruiser support one or two torps/bombs will always get through and deal severe damage to me. 

 

I believe the same grievances are faced by Warspite captains too. I mean hey, we could try our best to make things work out, but more often than not we get impossible match situations where we don't have the speed to keep up with the fleet, we can't adequately defend ourselves against other ships who massively outrange us making kiting impossible. And so what if I manage to run towards my teammates, by the time the cavalry arrives to the rescue (assuming they do at all) I'm already dead and the enemy player's already made a profit from killing a battleship. Of course we could do island hopping and hiding moves but that means we don't get to contribute as much to our team's firepower since half the time is spent hiding, and what's the point of that in a battleship with all those guns being useless? 

 

Any thoughts? 

[44smok]

My thoughts are Arizona is the best t6 tin can now and there's absolutely no reason to buff it.

[TheIdesOfMarch93]

My thoughts are Arizona is the best t6 tin can now and there's absolutely no reason to buff it.

 

Not calling for a buff. Keep her the way she is, just don't let her get into T8 matches. 

[ColonelPete]

New Mex is fine in Tier VIII, so my guess is Arizona is fine too. I know that Warspite is fine in Tier VIII.

Just be more carfeful.

[Pekoe_Darjeeling]

 

Not calling for a buff. Keep her the way she is, just don't let her get into T8 matches. 

 

Not every ship can be OP. If you don't like it don't play it. +-1 MM for one premium ship would be kinda P2W.

[44smok]

 

Not calling for a buff. Keep her the way she is, just don't let her get into T8 matches. 

 

That would be a buff

[lup3s]

My thoughts are Arizona is the best t6 tin can now and there's absolutely no reason to buff it.

 

more health and guns than the Colorado (I noticed yesterday)

[RedStorm1]

I do not have the Arizona but from the reviews I have read, where its shells hit, no grass grows again.... and with 18km range, it is for sure Tier 8 worthy.

 

 

I do have the Warspite and have been one of the strongest critics of this ship in Tier 8 battles because of its terrible armor model. Actually over 80% of my games in the past were Tier 8 battles and I was really sick and tired getting citadeled even by DDs.

However, since patch 0.5.9 Warspite's model changed back roughly to what I had when I initially acquired it 2 years back.

Now Warspite is still a difficult ship but tier 8 battles is no major issue.

 

So, post patch 0.5.9 I will claim that Tier 8 battles is a perfectly comfortable situation for both ships (although the Warspite captain will have to work harder and depend on luck (map selection))..

 

 

 

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

The only issue the Warspite now has in T8 battles, is gun range. You just have to be careful, and not get isolated (which is easier said than done sometimes).

[Takeda92]

No. Premium ship doesn't mean you should have an advantage over the regular ships. 

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

No. Premium ship doesn't mean you should have an advantage over the regular ships. 

 

Exactly. You buy a premium ship because of its history. I fully expect the regular Queen Elizabeth BB's to be no different in gameplay, to my Warspite, once they arrive. You then get premiums like the Atago, which despite being based on the Myoko, you cant actually get that class in the regular tree.

[Takeda92]

 

Exactly. You buy a premium ship because of its history. I fully expect the regular Queen Elizabeth BB's to be no different in gameplay, to my Warspite, once they arrive. You then get premiums like the Atago, which despite being based on the Myoko, you cant actually get that class in the regular tree.

 

Premiums used to be all about credits earning, captain retraining, and stuff that are too different for the tech tree, or ships that are famous but take a while for the regular ships to come in. But now, most premiums are way over-competitive that most of them are used in ranked or other modes and are preferred over the regular ships.

[tsachev]

The problem of Arizona (New Mexico) is the speed. Colorado has the same speed and is OK being 1 tier higher. 

[Odo_Toothless]

Very bad idea. Fighing with higher tiers makes us better players and give challenge. So New Mexico should have better MM too ? To make life easier just pick up incoming fire alert skill and kite highier tier BB shells from long distance. It works very well on Warspite. First I was massacred on open by high tiers BB, but this is a past time now.

 

From all premiums probably only Atlanta have serious problems vs IX tier ships and need preferential MM +1.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Warspite is fine vs higher tiers, sure it won't be top dog and will get bullied but you can minimise the issues by playing smart. 

 

Isn't there an extra credit/xp reward for destroying higher tier ships?

 

Out of all the T6 BB I own, NM, Fuso and Warspite I'd pick NM to be up-tiered in, you seem to live the longest because of her armour pattern...

 

[Listy]

Warspite is fine vs higher tiers, sure it won't be top dog and will get bullied but you can minimise the issues by playing smart.

 

 

And thus relying on your team to carry you, and not taking an active part in the battle? Or so it seams. I keep getting maps where the entire team heads off to the most open area possible. So I have two choices, go play in the covered area, by myself facing a superior higher tier force, or stick with the main group and do nothing.

As you admitted the lower tier BB's are just cannon fodder. Being a punching bag for higher tiers just isn't fun. Look at the MM changes that WG applied to carriers for exactly that reason.

[Sonic_157]

 

Arizona is a ver powerful ship right now.

Limiting its MM would be an indirect buff and there is no need for that.

 

 

 

[RedStorm1]

 

And thus relying on your team to carry you, and not taking an active part in the battle? Or so it seams. I keep getting maps where the entire team heads off to the most open area possible. So I have two choices, go play in the covered area, by myself facing a superior higher tier force, or stick with the main group and do nothing.

As you admitted the lower tier BB's are just cannon fodder. Being a punching bag for higher tiers just isn't fun. Look at the MM changes that WG applied to carriers for exactly that reason.

You always go for the covered area, regardless what your team does.

Warspite is no cannon fodder post patch 0.5.9

You need tave a highly skilled captain and good secondairies

 

I also realised that playing during morning hours puts me usually in tier 6-7 battles.

Playing during evening hours, mainly into tier 8.

 

 

 

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

 

And thus relying on your team to carry you, and not taking an active part in the battle? Or so it seams. I keep getting maps where the entire team heads off to the most open area possible. So I have two choices, go play in the covered area, by myself facing a superior higher tier force, or stick with the main group and do nothing.

As you admitted the lower tier BB's are just cannon fodder. Being a punching bag for higher tiers just isn't fun. Look at the MM changes that WG applied to carriers for exactly that reason.

 

it's a little different in CV as they're alot weaker when facing higher tier carriers.

 

BB of similar tier can still hurt each other, especially Warspite with her 15" guns and Arizona with her bug shotgun salvos.

 

I'm fairly sure Warspite's concealment is fairly good. If the battle is in the open and you're forced there then you don't need to shoot until you're spotted. And you could load HE to shoot DD first. Could even go with the DD and mix it up close in between islands.

 

T6 vs T8 is far from a helpless battle. I've killed two NC pre 0.5.9 in a brawl. Granted the pair underestimated me and didn't shoot me until it was too late 

[damo74]

I've wrecked a pair of Tirpitz before with my Warspite. So It can do very well in T8 matches and can certainly deal out the pain. On occasion I do get games where the enemy team focuses me before I even get in range to shoot back and this can be frustrating.

 

Warspite's biggest problem is that it burns like it's made of tinder.

[Pyro_O]

I can't comment on the Warspite, but Arizona fares even better than New Mexico in Tier 8 battles. And that doesn't mean New Mexico is a bad ship in Tier 8 battles, it does just fine. Arizona probably needs preferential matchmaking the least from all Tier 6 BB's. Only downside is the poor AA, but CV's aren't exactly the most common thing out there and you can somewhat protect yourself by sticking close to allied BB's and CA's.

[Listy]

You always go for the covered area, regardless what your team does.

Warspite is no cannon fodder post patch 0.5.9

You need tave a highly skilled captain and good secondairies

 

I also realised that playing during morning hours puts me usually in tier 6-7 battles.

Playing during evening hours, mainly into tier 8.

 

 

 

 

 

I normally play in the morning as well, and lal I seem to get is tier 8s

 

 

BB of similar tier can still hurt each other, especially Warspite with her 15" guns and Arizona with her bug shotgun salvos.

 

I'm fairly sure Warspite's concealment is fairly good. If the battle is in the open and you're forced there then you don't need to shoot until you're spotted. And you could load HE to shoot DD first. Could even go with the DD and mix it up close in between islands.

 

I'm not saying that a lower tier can't hurt a higher tier, however both these suggestions boil down to either:

"Have loads of upgrades" or "don't take part in the battle"

 

Surely the ships out the box with a free captain should be the balance point not a fully pimped ship Vs a stock one?

 

Now I'm not arguing about the Arizona here, as I don't own her and haven't played her. But Warspite is something I've gotten some experience with. Like the others say a limited MM isn't necessarily the solution.

Perhaps some other buff or subtle tweak could be implemented? The bow torpedoes for example, or changing the MM weight or something.

And lets not also get locked into the concept of BB vs BB. T8 Cruisers are bloody horrific for a short ranged T6.

 

Maybe that's the issue here, the guns range? For T6 cruisers due to the MM hijinks that prevent them from seeing lower tiers these days increase their range, or accuracy at extreme ranges?

[Listy]

Had a think about the above ideas, and better accuracy while working upwards would negatively effect downwards tiers. Preferential MM would also just move this issue up a tier to tier 7.

 

So what to do?

 

The idea I next had was to decrease the recharge time for repair consumables, but that leads to a unsinkable ship that's a real pain for lower tiers. Then I applied the idea to the Spotter plane.

The issue seems to be one of range. Being unable to get to grips with enemy BB's while they can brutalise you at will. So why not make the spotter plane either stay up longer, or have a reduced cooldown?

That way you get to engage at long range, even if your accuracy is going to suck massively. Against lower tiers it isn't going to be overpowered, if at all, simply becuase lower tier maps seem to have more cover. Even if they don't one or two extra hits isn't going to destroy game balance.

[mtm78]

@op

 

Warspite and Arizona are perfectly balanced tier 6's, they don't need protected MM it would make them overpowered. 

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

With prem heal the Warspite can take obscene damage. Some have quoted 100k+ hp but I dunno if it's that high. As long as you don't blow up you can heal way more hp than any other BB.

 

Zombie Regeneration Ship