t10 games are sub-par compared to lower tiers - issues

[Admiral_noodle]

I don't really agree. There are a lot of good players mid tier and a lot of potatoes at low tier. Tier V and below is indeed noob infested but even there there are challenging opponents (who I often wonder if they are sealclubbers)

 

I agree mistakes are heavily punished at high tier. At low tier you might get away with it because RNG will save you. Or your enemies might not notice.

 

There are bad players at tier X. But they are more experienced. So idiot mistakes are less likely. But this also means a lot of bad players simply don't risk anything.

 

I had a tier X yesterday. In a BB. A Khaba (good player) sat in his smoke for the full duration invisifiring at me. I could do nothing. Couldn't turn away there was a Yamato ahead of me. All I could do was slowly reverse and not shoot for about 3 minutes while being pummelled. Eventually a friendly dd came over to help and I was able to slip away behind smoke, reposition and then eventually come second

 

But team play is more important at tier X. This is because good players now play as a team and spot weaknesses in the enemy (I had no screen, my DDs had wandered off. I couldn't reposition because of previously mentioned Yamato.)

 

So I don't see the point in playing tier X random battles. You'll be left out to dry as a BB in many games and just have to sit there and take it. Then get charged for the "fun" you had. Tier X works beautiful. If your team play together. 

 

Team battles. Definitely. Divisions. Maybe. Solo tier X? No.

[_Teob_]

By definition people at tier 10 will at least have more experience.

 

And yeah there are a lot of sealclubbers at tiers 5-6-7. Just keep in mind that these guys are potentially ruining a new player's experience with the game.

 

I do OK at tier 10 both solo and in divisions.

[lup3s]

.. so many campers

 

why play if you don't want to win?

 

just waiting for the enemy to finish off your DDs.. capture the remaining bases.. and win halfway through the battle because they reached 1000..

 

Domination; I wonder if some players even know the basics of this game mode.

[Admiral_noodle]

By definition people at tier 10 will at least have more experience.

 

And yeah there are a lot of sealclubbers at tiers 5-6-7. Just keep in mind that these guys are potentially ruining a new player's experience with the game.

 

I do OK at tier 10 both solo and in divisions.

 

I don't think that's fair for tiers 5-6-7. If anything you could say seal clubbing is worse at tier X if you have thousands of games because your always top tier

 

Experienced players at tiers 5-6-7 is a good thing if they play to help their team and try to teach along the way. Ruining someone's experience? That's a mind set nothing to do with how experienced you are. 

 

Plus I don't agree that of you have tier X you should only play tier X. You're actively encouraged to play other ships. I'll always play tier 3-10 because I want to enjoy the whole game. 

[Schlieffenplan]

When I started IJN grind not long ago I discovered that tier 1 and 2 is the most fun. No one gives a damn, everyone just head straight towards everyone with guns blazing. Theres no camping, theres no self pity. No smack in chat, just chaos.

[_FTD_]

I'll preface this by  saying that I love high tiers and despise lower tiers. 

 

The main issue at high tiers is that there is a lot less room for error. Show your broadside or turn the wrong way and there's a high chance that you will lose your ship in the next 1-2 minutes. At lower tiers that doesn't happen nearly as often. However I for one like that. It's thrilling and for me it makes the game more fun.

 

I really dislike lower tiers mainly because it's so easy to play there. You are up against so many people just starting out in the game. They can't aim properly yet, sail in straight lines etc. It just feels unrewarding every time you get a kill. This is especially true if you do low tier divisions. 

Not to mention that I dislike facing ships 2 tiers higher (Kongo vs Nagato is not even a contest or Nurnberg vs Hipper)

 

If anyone thinks that people at tier 10 have no clue (and a lot of them don't) then just compare with lower tiers. It's night and day. The average player at tier 8+ is significantly better than below tier 8.

 

Different strokes for different folks.

Couldn't have summed it up better.

 

Low tiers just don't feel rewarding whatsoever, the lowest tier i enjoy playing is T6 and that's only the case because of the Anshan ;s.

Admiral_noodle, on 10 August 2016 - 10:06 PM, said: 

Plus I don't agree that of you have tier X you should only play tier X. You're actively encouraged to play other ships. I'll always play tier 3-10 because I want to enjoy the whole game. 

Teob_VG never said that though, I have every T10 in the game except the Midway and yet I don't spam T10 permanently nor do I know anyone who does that. T8-10 is what most of our player (in the Clan) play, the rest is mostly for grinding purposes with some few exceptions like  the Flint, Hiryu, Warspite.

 

 

[mtm78]

Couldn't have summed it up better.

 

Low tiers just don't feel rewarding whatsoever, the lowest tier i enjoy playing is T6 and that's only the case because of the Anshan ;s.

 

If I give you a Gremmy I bet I could change ur mind

[_FTD_]

 

If I give you a Gremmy I bet I could change ur mind

I'd literally pay 40€ for that thing , milk me WG!!!

[Admiral_noodle]

Couldn't have summed it up better.

 

Low tiers just don't feel rewarding whatsoever, the lowest tier i enjoy playing is T6 and that's only the case because of the Anshan ;s.

Plus I don't agree that of you have tier X you should only play tier X. You're actively encouraged to play other ships. I'll always play tier 3-10 because I want to enjoy the whole game. 

Teob_VG never said that though, I have every T10 in the game except the Midway and yet I don't spam T10 permanently nor do I know anyone who does that. T8-10 is what most of our player (in the Clan) play, the rest is mostly for grinding purposes with some few exceptions like  the Flint, Hiryu, Warspite.

 

 

 

Ok I get that, although I like tier 6/7 the best and will play 4/5 sometimes for fun. I felt the post was saying 5/6/7 is seal clubbing and shouldn't be encouraged, which is a bit unfair. Although with MM changes tier IV seriously is sealclubbing (or seal helping depending on your PoV)

[_FTD_]

 

Ok I get that, although I like tier 6/7 the best and will play 4/5 sometimes for fun. I felt the post was saying 5/6/7 is seal clubbing and shouldn't be encouraged, which is a bit unfair. Although with MM changes tier IV seriously is sealclubbing (or seal helping depending on your PoV)

I would never consider tier 5-7 as seal clubbing, if people have fun playing it, go ahead and play it!  

 

It is just the constant hate on high tiers while it's not that much different than T7-8

[Admiral_noodle]

I would never consider tier 5-7 as seal clubbing, if people have fun playing it, go ahead and play it!  

 

It is just the constant hate on high tiers while it's not that much different than T7-8

 

...this is the thing. It is actually no different. I've played a lot of VERY fun games with fellow STs on the test server at tier X. Ships are no more likely to be nuked than at any other tier. The main difference I feel is you can actually got what you're shooting at with high tier ships at decent range. 

 

I love the ships too. Which is why it is so disappointing when the high tier games on LIVE are so depressing sometimes. I do wonder if costs are the main driver behind passive play. I find it very confusing. 

[mtm78]

I would never consider tier 5-7 as seal clubbing, if people have fun playing it, go ahead and play it!  

 

It is just the constant hate on high tiers while it's not that much different than T7-8

 

It is not hate, but discomfort. 

 

For me at least, I just don't play my Zao enough to feel as comfortable in her as for instance I do in my Atago.

 

 

...this is the thing. It is actually no different. I've played a lot of VERY fun games with fellow STs on the test server at tier X. Ships are no more likely to be nuked than at any other tier. The main difference I feel is you can actually got what you're shooting at with high tier ships at decent range. 

 

I love the ships too. Which is why it is so disappointing when the high tier games on LIVE are so depressing sometimes. I do wonder if costs are the main driver behind passive play. I find it very confusing. 

 

This certainly seems the case right? But it's not just economics, it's also performance which isn't publicly tracked or visible. People are less afraid to goof up, in fact we often dismiss our mistakes and claim we have to mimic live server as close as possible ( aka we intentionally pulled an Artic__ I mean tactically beached ourselves somewhere ).

 

 

 

 

 

[avenger121]

It is not hate, but discomfort. 

 

For me at least, I just don't play my Zao enough to feel as comfortable in her as for instance I do in my Atago.

 

.............. but why?

 

I mean, T6 matches are rare for the Atago and T8 matches are nearly identical to T10. The Zao feels just so much better, your firepower feels literally doubled, higher RoF, bigger broadside, more range and the most important the better shell flight time. Playing Atago after Zao just makes you feel so limited in your opportunties. The same reason why I nearly never keep any ships out of the same line. Why would keep the Aoba with only 6 guns, when it is just a circumcised version of all IJN cruisers after her. Ofc the enemy ships at T6 are not as potent as T8 ships, but still, you just feel so limited in comparison to the Myoko, Mogami, Ibuki .............

 

Leaving circumstances like passive play or credits aside ofc.

[Szatanshow]

Just remove caps and timer from tier X game so ppl accualy have to fight to win instead of camping at the edge of map or behind island waiting for battle to end..

To put it simple make Tier X games a total anihilation matches

[mtm78]

 

.............. but why?

 

I mean, T6 matches are rare for the Atago and T8 matches are nearly identical to T10. The Zao feels just so much better, your firepower feels literally doubled, higher RoF, bigger broadside, more range and the most important the better shell flight time. Playing Atago after Zao just makes you feel so limited in your opportunties. The same reason why I nearly never keep any ships out of the same line. Why would keep the Aoba with only 6 guns, when it is just a circumcised version of all IJN cruisers after her. Ofc the enemy ships at T6 are not as potent as T8 ships, but still, you just feel so limited in comparison to the Myoko, Mogami, Ibuki .............

 

Leaving circumstances like passive play or credits aside ofc.

 

Your guess is as good as mine? I just feel like: "ok let's do this" when in Atago and match loads ( even tier X games ), while in Zao I'm like: How to perform as well as possible in this match? It's not unlikely that it is just the amount of games I played at tier 8 vs the amount of games at tier X. From most tier 8 ships I will know the important ships stats and characteristics, and in game I don't have to think about what they are, but this all get's more blurred in tier X games. Maybe it's just that I WANT myself to perform as well as I do on lower tiers, and this isn't happening which frustrates me and increases insecurity which get's to be a vicious circle, as I said I am not sure.

[lup3s]

apparently players at T10 still haven't learned to check where to fire torpedoes.. ate 2 Hindenburg torps in one match (2 different ships; one of them his torpedoes wouldn't even have reached the target )

[Mayv]

Just remove caps and timer from tier X game so ppl accualy have to fight to win instead of camping at the edge of map or behind island waiting for battle to end..

To put it simple make Tier X games a total anihilation matches

 

Like the old standard battles where they nearly all ended in draws.

[mtm78]

 

Like the old standard battles where they nearly all ended in draws.

 

He did say remove timers, kind of hard to draw without timers 

[Ast3lan]

Camping is the issue. I love the Mogami but Im having issues taking it out since if I land in a tier IX - X battle it's a camping fest.

 

It's a really really slow paced boring battle where whoever starts sinking ships usually has the advantage and thats it.

 

In lower tiers there's more fun ( except when you have 5 dds against 5 dds) usually.

 

Problem resides on the players side of things,as no one likes to be hit and sunk.

[DreadRoberts]

I was really excited to get my Zao but less than 50 games in, I'm not compelled to queue for a match for a few reasons.

 

Firstly the credit loss isn't worth it. An extreme example would be a game where I scored 150K damage and was instrumental in winning the match with great xp only to come out with a 23k loss - I would have been better off sailing to a corner of the map and not firing at all while at worst losing a karma point (a what?? I'm sure many of you will be thinking ..... which is a point in itself)

My biggest credit loss was more than 200K while attempting to lead an aggressive push and getting nuked - I didn't bother trying THAT again and think it makes the point that the penalty for ship damage makes camping the best option for anyone who is actively grinding other ship lines, which is practically every tier 10 player.

 

Secondly, the fact is you have 15 point DD captains who can snipe you the entire game without ever being detected as they slowly pick away at your HP and that is the inevitable tactic for certain ship models. For example it's extremely difficult to counter-act a well played Khabarovsk specced to snipe if you do not have a CV and lets face it there are very few CV's at tier 10 while ALL Khabarovsk's are specced to snipe, hell the cheapest tactic for my 10 point Zao would be to sit undetected at 18km and spam HE.

Once again camping is encouraged by the game but with the added bonus of irritation to those being sniped.

 

I don't blame anyone for camping at tier 10 because I think you are encouraged to play that way, the problem is it makes the game boring and at least in my experience low/mid tier matches are way more fun and interesting to play because you can employ bold and aggressive tactics without risk of a quarter million credits when it doesn't work out.

 

The introduction of cyclones has definitely added some interest to high tier games with some epic aggressive moves resulting but it really does highlight how dull the matches usually are and I would love to see some balancing which promotes or at least does not over- penalize a more aggressive play style.

 

Losing large amounts of credit at tier 10 doesn't make people play lower tiers, it just makes them stop playing tier 10.

 

[viceadmiral123]

My general advice for fresh players that are hopeless in the t10 economy:

 

Get to a t10 ship, dock it. Retrain captain for t8 or lower ship and enjoy the game. You will bleed credits in t10 games in general, with some exceptions. Don't forget to troll the enemy t10 captains while you sink them in your t8 ship.

After you buy all the ships, you can use t10 as a money sink. There will be nothing else to spend credits on at that point.