Do we really need Situational Awereness?

[puxflacet]

I can understand the logic behind this feature in WoT. It's rpg element which represents that the most skilled commanders have sixth sense to feel a danger, but what does it represent in WoWs when every captain has it? Surely it is one of the most ridicule sci-fi things in the game (along with russian tech trees).

 

And i can say it is even immersion breaking - I remember playing ships with captain without SA and remember the situations when everything is calm around you but you are not certain if any sneaky dd is spotting you so you are changing course and speed to avoid unpleasant surprises in form of torpedos or a salvo from 20+km away invisible BB...but now you just sail merrily until the orange exclamation mark pops up.

 

Another thing is that it negates important task of DDs and CVs to spot for their team. I believe there should be more encouragement from the game for DD and CV players to spot - this thing actually do the opposite.

 

IMHO  instead of giving it to everyone, WG should do the very opposite thing and make it level 5 skill so it will represent its original rpg purpose of most skilled captains...or remove this thing completely.

[duoinvasion]

Try playing stealth Zao without SA.

Or a gearing or a shimakaze.

BB don't need it but the squishy ships need it to make good tactical decisions(for me anyways).

And making SA a 5 point skill makes a stealth build less appealing to all but DD. And even then stealth capping would all but disappear so good luck having a DD cap anymore.

[Ictogan]

Another thing is that it negates important task of DDs and CVs to spot for their team. I believe there should be more encouragement from the game for DD and CV players to spot - this thing actually do the opposite.

 

Please explain how it does this.

[Varian_Dorn]

Yes to the topic question, no to your reasoning against SA.

 

To me, SA compensates partially for the (in my opinion somewhat overly excessive) "stealth" mechanic of the game, with a ship being COMPLETELY INVISIBLE if it's not in detection range... or (partially) obscured by smoke. Remember, in reality and under the mostly good weather conditions the game presents us with combat vessels were able to track, identify and target an enemy at ranges 20 kilometers and way beyond, up to the 42 kilometers with Yamato's max firing range.

 

In this game however a warship can sit a handful of kilometers in front of you, in plain sight, with calm sea in brightest daylight, and you can't see even the slightest bit of it, not it's hull and not even the waves it generates while moving. Think about THAT when talking about "Immersion breaking".

 

SA is fine for the way World of Warships is set up. And it's ok all captains have it now.

[Pekoe_Darjeeling]

What is Situational awareness? Some skill or something?

[Agantas]

What is Situational awareness? Some skill or something?

 

It's that triangle that tells you that you've been detected. WoT has a less reliable equivalent skill called "Sixth sense". 

 

 

[Admiral_noodle]

Yes.

 

For immersion imagine someone spotted a smoke trail from a funnel or something

 

It makes the game playable with the detection mechanics. Without SA a totally different method of detevtion would be needed.

 

My verdict - "close enough"

[loppantorkel]

It would be okay in hardcore mode

 

[Admiral_noodle]

It would be okay in hardcore mode

 

Yea. No SA. No detection. No ship icons. Just whatever you see! No aiming help etc. no icons on minimap... 

 

Of of course this is a different game

[Kartoffelmos]

It's not immersion-breaking! Don't you remember the global irradiated spider storms of the 1930s?

 

Also, real ships did not have hit points (in real life, you wouldn't know if a ship was only one shot away from sinking), so I guess you're fine with that because "reasons"?

For that, I have a suggestion: make the UI invisible until you obtain the level 4 skill "Advanced Combat Interface". Now everyone can enjoy a realistic game!

[AnotherDuck]

And we're back to silly realism suggestions.

 

I usually sum up the spotting mechanics to it not actually always being clear weather, the crew not always being 100% alert 360° around the ship for both other ships and torpedoes, and the occasional night battle. In real life torpedoes often went unspotted, and there are cases where even cruisers snuck up within a few km of other ships during night time. And in a real typhoon, visibility would probably not be a whole 8 km. Then you have the whole business of misidentifying targets...

[duoinvasion]

Why must people bring realism into an arcade game I will never understand.

[willsanders84]

Actually agree that situational awareness should be removed completely. I don't think it would be as game breaking as people are suggesting.

 

Would also like the pre-match line-ups to be removed. Think it would be far more interesting if you didn't know exactly what the other team had. Of course new changes to the MM mean you'd have a pretty good idea, but still.

 

I think the removal of situational awareness would make for a far more interesting and tense game.

 

(p.s. also think the torp aiming assist should be removed)

[Admiral_noodle]

Nice ideas but would totally upset balance as it is. However I'd love to see what happens with no torp indicator and no SA.

 

[AnotherDuck]

Nice ideas but would totally upset balance as it is. However I'd love to see what happens with no torp indicator and no SA.

 

You mean no markers on incoming torps nor a warning? That'd be fun.

[Admiral_noodle]

 

You mean no markers on incoming torps nor a warning? That'd be fun.

 

Another thread "hardcore mode"! Or realistic mode. Would be fun to give a go. Would have to add grounding and severe damage from collisions as well as realistic reloads, running out of torpedoes, no targeting assist. Having to identify enemies and friends...

 

back on topic the game as it plays now needs SA - or else DDs become rather powerful. Assuming the detection range remains on the minimap. You'd have to get rid of that as well. 

[OldGrandad]

And i can say it is even immersion breaking - I remember playing ships with captain without SA and remember the situations when everything is calm around you but you are not certain if any sneaky dd is spotting you so you are changing course and speed to avoid unpleasant surprises in form of torpedos or a salvo from 20+km away invisible BB...but now you just sail merrily until the orange exclamation mark pops up.

 

Well yes, it was better when SA was a third skill to achieve but I would not say it was immersion breaking as all ships would have 'look outs' for enemy ships hence what it is now.

[AnotherDuck]

Another thread "hardcore mode"! Or realistic mode. Would be fun to give a go. Would have to add grounding and severe damage from collisions as well as realistic reloads, running out of torpedoes, no targeting assist. Having to identify enemies and friends...

 

I'd call it more hardcore than realistic. In reality, you'd have a whole staff of people doing calculations for you, so you'd actually have less problem multitasking.

 

back on topic the game as it plays now needs SA - or else DDs become rather powerful. Assuming the detection range remains on the minimap. You'd have to get rid of that as well. 

 

The ships that needs it the least are the ships that can assume they're always detected anyway, and the smallest ships that will see anything that detect them anyway, not counting when they fire (although the smallest ships are all torpedo boats), and radar shenanigans.

 

Detection range on the minimap helps, but isn't actually essential. You can look around to get an estimate of where all ships are, and you can look up your own detectability range. Now, if distance numbers weren't on the screen, it'd be a little harder...

[AgarwaenME]

"An rpg element"

 

I might be a nerd, but that might be one of the crazier parts of that post imo.

 

Sure, move it to a t5 skill. And at the same time move repair works, defensive fire, sonar and radar to t5 skills too. Why limit yourself to completely breaking one type of ships? Go all in I say!

[GulvkluderGuld]

 

IMHO  instead of giving it to everyone, WG should do the very opposite thing and make it level 5 skill so it will represent its original rpg purpose of most skilled captains...or remove this thing completely.

 

Primarily a DD player here and I actually find myself in agreement with the spirit of the suggestion. 

I definitely think SA should be a captain skill, not free for all. But making it level 5 would be a really, really bad idea.

IJN spotter boats would reign supreme. Since they have the best concealment in game, they dont need SA while everyone else do - thus they can take CE and be even harder to find, while everyone else will need SA.

 

WG has chosen (or had) to put the most impactful skills for DD at level 1 and 2. Concealment expert is the only other equally impactful skill.

I liked the game much better when captain skill choices actually meant something. When you had to give up some skills in order to get others.

 

These days, all DDs have SA and CE and most have LS. 

The only impactful choice left is on level 3 and possibly level 4 (but even there DE vs SE vs AFT is decided by nation)

In other words, I find WG is removing diversity.

[Nechrom]

I agree on a basic level that a game without SA would probably be more interesting and give more tactical options. You'd once again have use of your ability to read the map and anticipate where hidden enemies might be, but also ambush players who don't expect you.

But it would require a whole bunch of other changes to keep the game balanced as well.

 

The main advantage of everyone actually having SA is that it makes aggressive play easier and less of a gamble. An overly cautious captain without SA will play like he's always spotted when there is actually no need to be that defensive.

Even though it essentially dumbs down the game, it also promotes more active battles. Whether that's a good trade is pretty subjective.

 

[AnotherDuck]

Dunno. When I spot destroyers and cruisers before they spot me, the typical response is to run away. Usually followed by volleys from every ship in range (unless potatoes), so it's probably a fair response.

[dasCKD]

These days, all DDs have SA and CE and most have LS. 

The only impactful choice left is on level 3 and possibly level 4 (but even there DE vs SE vs AFT is decided by nation)

In other words, I find WG is removing diversity.

 

In that case, how are they removing diversity? They made a mandatory skill automatic, so everyone can choose something that better suits their playstyles. That's adding diversity if anything.

[22cm]

It is an unrealistic skill,  this is true. 

[Mister_Greek]

 

Yea. No SA. No detection. No ship icons. Just whatever you see! No aiming help etc. no icons on minimap... 

 

Of of course this is a different game

 

Wait for War Thunder Ships Admiral.

 

It will only take 5-10 years more