Is Flint really that OP?

[ColonelPete]

That never happened to me in over 3000 games. I doubt that will change because of one ship.

[Takru]

 

The "ran into" part means I made a mistake, and they popped up from behind an island. It was a mistake, this is not a question. But nothing killed me before as fast as these two, and without any chance to fight back. You can call me bad player, don't care, really I'm not a big shot, but this little ship has all the powers of the dd's plus the huge He output. It's a new type of danger out there.

 

Kinda odd that you put the blame on one of two ships when both are very similar. Two Atlantas would've burned you down equally fast and a DD could easily smoke those, too.

[_FTD_]

 

We will talk about the Solution when you get burned out by a invisible Flint 

You talk as if there is no solution to this, makes me smile.

[GulvkluderGuld]

As I see from that video, some very special circumstances allowed this Flint to run amok:

- First and foremost, he had an uncontested spotter - that friendly farragut. 

- There was no dd on the other side to contest the spotting.

- Tier 7 max match meaning no Radar ships (the obvious counter)

- Enemy CAs comes at him one at a time, typical random battles style, then break off. Better players would keep pushing into the smoke bow-on with hydro and torping /citadelling the hell out of him.

 

As I see it, this ship certainly is very very good. I will be very curious to see how it does in a Ranked or team battles environment, as I suspect the answer is: not nearly as good.

If the other team smokes up too and contest the spotting dd (as per the ranked season 4 high rank meta) I just dont see the Flint being more than another Atlanta.

It is also an awfull easy target for torpedoes, although equipping Hydro will mitigate that threat somewhat.

 

In Tier 8+ matches it runs into things like Radar ships, BBs with railguns, and engagements take place at longer ranges in general. 

I suspect Flints will do well regardless, but that will be due to expert players sailing it and avoiding BB fire effectively more than to the ship.

[CLyDeThaMonKeY]

Ive seen a couple of Flints now. So far they havent scared me But Chase really makesthe ship look OP in that vid :O A T6 MK with better smoke :O

[javanse]

You talk as if there is no solution to this, makes me smile.

 

Ehm i talk about the Video, there is no Solution for that poor guys. Sure its bad playing, nothing to talk about, but its discusting how long the smoke goes.

 

But yeah maybe i'm wrong and the Flint is okay, i dont have a Problem with this, i'm not that Player who wants balancing or something like that. I plkay some matches in the afternoon, and when i dont want anymore i close the game, so i dont have any ambitions to balance the game for competitive play. I dont care of this, because i'm not that kind of a player. But then you Unicums think its okay, then okay. You have to deal about it in competitive games in the future (maybe or not). 

[Gknight_007]

 

Kinda odd that you put the blame on one of two ships when both are very similar. Two Atlantas would've burned you down equally fast and a DD could easily smoke those, too.

 

Please read, I didn't call it OP, I didn't blame the Flint, I described a situation which happened yesterdey with me, when I made a mistake. 

There are many options to die, a dd can smoke a bb, citadell me, bang, die. One, two or more Atlantas can burn me in a blink, the result is the same only one dd can torp me into oblivion... I just said one Flint and one Atlanta while  using the two ships abiliites right, is surprisingly strong.

 

[_FTD_]

 

Ehm i talk about the Video, there is no Solution for that poor guys. Sure its bad playing, nothing to talk about, but its discusting how long the smoke goes.

So you base your statements on players playing like cannon fodder against the flint?

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

And? You do the same thing as you do with smoked DD.

Torpedos, aim at the origin of the shots.

Depending on range, radar or sonar. A stopped Flint is down in seconds.

Kill the spotter or seek cover or move out of range.

With the size of the ship even blind fire might work.

 

Really no problem, unless you are sailing alone.

You really didnt watch the video did you? Its not so easy to "just do what you do with DDs in smoke" when the "DD" has one of the most feared ROF in the game, has 12 guns that just sphew out fires at you, has great torps that you also need to dodge while burning to death, while you will try and hit something hiding in smoke thats 3 k wide? He can go circles aroud youre ship pretty much in that smokecloud and youre solution is kill the spotter or move out of range? OK, good luck with that!

 

If you die in 20-30 seconds, you are doing something wrong.

How are you doing something wrong if you get surprised by a Flint at mid range, he pops smoke and dissapears and burn you to death before you can "move out of range"?

 

reported as pointless whine.

 

 

You did not even see ship in battle and yet you already whine about it

Omg, how is this "pointless whine"? Have you reported the 4000 actual whine thread in the forum as well or just me? 

If you bother to see my post again its pretty obvious i just saw this sip in game and i got pretty frightened by what this ship can do. I consider myself being atleast above average player and i cant do what this ship did in that amount of time in any of my Premiums or other ships while being safe and undetected.

But, lets see how you guys feel in a couple of weeks after dealing with this crap ship. 

[javanse]

So you base your statements on players playing like cannon fodder against the flint?

 

No i only say that the smoke goes to long, that all I want to say.

[Adrian1914]

Seeing one person's good game, can not give the whole side of how the ship would perform. In that video the Flint just had very good MM. And also this ship would be so rare that I don't see why this is made into such a big issue.

 

Let's put that same Flint in a game where there are more DDs. Just one of them needs to launch a few torps in that smoke and he is dead, because even if he has the Engine module, he would never accelerate in time to avoid the torps.

Let's put him in a tier 9 game - he would have it much harder. Let's also put a tier 9 CV - just a few torps in the smoke and he is dead. Even though he has good AA, a CV can still do a drop on him.

Let's also put him in a match where the enemies are not rushing one by one, but are actually playing smart, or they focus fire him when he gets in the open without his smoke available, or they've made him get out of it.

Let's put him in a situation, where a CA can radar him. A BB just has to spit on him and he is dead.

What we saw in that video was just a good game, and the Flint IMO is still very situational. If the smoke becomes such a massive problem, they could just lower the amount of charges it has and that would make it so that it is used more smart, and not just spammed. I see no problem in it being standard US DD smoke.

[Kuso_Teitoku]

As I see it, this ship certainly is very very good. I will be very curious to see how it does in a Ranked or team battles environment, as I suspect the answer is: not nearly as good.

 

I am not sure about ranked battles, if they are T7 max again it coul be pretty OP

 

Atlantas where really well used in the last season, with the limitation that they needed to stay behind islands or get smoke from the DDs.

 

The Flint negates that weakness and with that long smoke duration will probably pretty good, if your DDs spot for you

 

The only radar in ranked to counter her would be the indianapolis and I think she would have a hard time getting close enough

 

Flint smoke is even big and long enough to smoke Bbs even more effectivley, leaving the DDs to scout

[Mayv]

I am surprised they gave it the same torpedoes as the Benson rather than the Mahan.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

So you base your statements on players playing like cannon fodder against the flint?

 

So, just a question of sincere interest, How would you go about finishing the Flint of in this situation? I really wanna know for the future. 

 

Im looking forward to next season of ranked and how you guys will feel about this ship then. If it ever gets sold on the store im bying it for next season!

[ColonelPete]

Do not get surprised. First mistake.

Do not sail on in a straight line. Second mistake.

[Phlogistoned]

reported as pointless whine.

 

 

You did not even see ship in battle and yet you already whine about it

 

That's the point, isn't it - nobody sees it - it just smokes up!

[_FTD_]

 

So, just a question of sincere interest, How would you go about finishing the Flint of in this situation? I really wanna know for the future. 

 

Im looking forward to next season of ranked and how you guys will feel about this ship then. If it ever gets sold on the store im bying it for next season!

- Don't push without knowing where the flint currently is, wait until it gets spotted once at least to confirm its position

- If you push make sure you have some kind of torpedo or radar support

- Wait out the smoke and then just kill it while staying 12-13km away from it

 

This ship only works against people that have no clue about how to deal with these kind of situations and if you come up with the division argument now i will counter it by just saying your own division can outplay that crap all day and night especially if its a proper division setup with DD/BB/CA | DD/DD/CA | DD/DD/BB

 

I really dont see it being such a big deal... sure it can be abused like crazy in a division, i did that with some of my clanmates yesterday too but its nowhere near OP because it needs very specific situations and potatos to run havoc. At the end of the day it's just an Atlanta with smoke and better torps (which dont make a huge difference)

[teamkill_2014]

Konigsberg is OP

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

Do not get surprised. First mistake.

Do not sail on in a straight line. Second mistake.

 

"Do not get surprised. First mistake."   So what you are telling me is pretty much , dont ever sail around/ near any islands where a Flint can be on the other side of, and dont sail anywhere close to a ship that you dont know its there before hes opening up on you and have deployed smoke?! So pretty much just hug the borders for the rest of all matches and you wont be surprised by a Flint?

"Do not sail on in a straight line. Second mistake". How is sailing in a straight line even an issue? What i could tell he wasent using his torps or AP to get the damage he did in that game? Sure manouver, but Flint can move his guns aswell. And i think that anyone ever being surprised by an Atlanta at mid range will know that it hurts. The saving Grace in those incidents are that you can hurt/kill the Atlanta back. But how you gonna hut something you wont be able to se and that also will move around in a huge smokecloud?

 

And some of the other arguments:

 

 

 

- First and foremost, he had an uncontested spotter - that friendly farragut.   Yeah most games their is a whole bunch of friendly ships spotting a CA that uses his guns for you, having a DD for that is not really necessary. 

- There was no dd on the other side to contest the spotting. How would he contest the spotting? Just killling of a stealty DD in one strike? And how would their DD get so close to spot our spotter without getting instakilled by the Flint?

- Tier 7 max match meaning no Radar ships (the obvious counter) And this will be the reality most times, even if their is a Radar CA in the match it needs to get close enough to use radar without getting spotted by anyone and not getting killed by Fling HE or torps. Good luck getting someone for that suicide mission!

- Enemy CAs comes at him one at a time, typical random battles style, then break off. Better players would keep pushing into the smoke bow-on with hydro and torping /citadelling the hell out of him. Yeah, it is typical "Random style" but since i play most Random i feel this IS gonna be an issue soon. "Better players" pushing in to giant smoke with a flamethrower and torps coming out of it?!  Ok, im guessing im not a "Better player" then because i wont.

 

As I see it, this ship certainly is very very good. I will be very curious to see how it does in a Ranked or team battles environment, as I suspect the answer is: not nearly as good. You cant see it being good in Ranked or Team battles? Really? Whats the drawback for the Flint in Ranked or Team? That he has great firedamage? Great torps? Being invicible 80% of the match? Great AA?

If the other team smokes up too and contest the spotting dd (as per the ranked season 4 high rank meta) I just dont see the Flint being more than another Atlanta. Why do you focus on the spotting DD? How are you gonna be able to do anything to that DD when he is in stealth and you are not in youre CA?! And how is the entire enemy team just gonna smoke up? Have you seen this work much in Random? And sure, the enemy team can use Flints aswell and smoketactics but that really dont say anything more then this ship being OP with this smoke as it is.

It is also an awfull easy target for torpedoes, although equipping Hydro will mitigate that threat somewhat. The problem with this is, with that huge smokecloud you wouldnt even secure a kill with a Shima and its 15 torps. The smoke is HUGE and stays forever and 30 sec after he can pop another one.

 

In Tier 8+ matches it runs into things like Radar ships, BBs with railguns, and engagements take place at longer ranges in general.  See above, who will volunteer to go into smoke in a tier 8-9 battle? You will get spotted by someone and getting focused by all enemy. RADAR is not a OP counter to this ship.

I suspect Flints will do well regardless, but that will be due to expert players sailing it and avoiding BB fire effectively more than to the ship.  You dont really need to be an expert to pop smoke or spam fire.

[GulvkluderGuld]

I am not sure about ranked battles, if they are T7 max again it coul be pretty OP

 

Atlantas where really well used in the last season, with the limitation that they needed to stay behind islands or get smoke from the DDs.

 

The Flint negates that weakness and with that long smoke duration will probably pretty good, if your DDs spot for you

 

The only radar in ranked to counter her would be the indianapolis and I think she would have a hard time getting close enough

 

Flint smoke is even big and long enough to smoke Bbs even more effectivley, leaving the DDs to scout

 

It's true we don't know. That is why I am curious. Atlantas did do well in the recent ranked season. 

Most of the time they werent spotted or accessible to shoot at anyway though. Flints will still die fast to focus fire, just like Atlantas, so if spotted = dead very fast.

 

You've got a point about smoking up BBs - that smoke is really really good. 

As to Radar, Indys and Atlantas both have it now - and most Indy players I saw in ranked played well. They often parked on central rocks but out of line of fire while using radar. 

 

What Flint might do is become the monster escort cruiser for the second cap, where usually you only send 1 dd 1 ca.

It seems well suited to independent tasks.

 

 

 

 

So, just a question of sincere interest, How would you go about finishing the Flint of in this situation? I really wanna know for the future. 

 

Im looking forward to next season of ranked and how you guys will feel about this ship then. If it ever gets sold on the store im bying it for next season!

 

If german or IJN, load AP and go Bow-in and use Hydro at 5-6 kms. Welcome to citadel city. Throw some torps in for good measure for force maneuvers and expose that citadel.

[KaraMon]

So i watched video.

 

This guy is smashing potatos , i don't think he will be able to sit so calmly in smoke against players

 

On tier 1 people know that if you see smoke shoot everything you have there, torps, guns , charge and kill whatever sit in there. On tier 7 potatos seeing smoke run away in panic

[ColonelPete]

@Collin

That corner is well known for ambushes.

You do not sail through the gap, close to the corner if you do not know what is waiting behind it.

Any DD will kill you instantly.

You sail east of the small rock, ready turn further east. You should slow down too.

 

Even if you get surpised, do not sail on straight.

Break and turn away. A slimmer profile with speed and heading variation results in less hits.

 

And if a teamate ignores that and dies in front of you, you do NOT sail on and repeat the same mistakes. You must be braindead to do that.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

- Don't push without knowing where the flint currently is, wait until it gets spotted once at least to confirm its position

- If you push make sure you have some kind of torpedo or radar support

- Wait out the smoke and then just kill it while staying 12-13km away from it

 

This ship only works against people that have no clue about how to deal with these kind of situations and if you come up with the division argument now i will counter it by just saying your own division can outplay that crap all day and night especially if its a proper division setup with DD/BB/CA | DD/DD/CA | DD/DD/BB

 

I really dont see it being such a big deal... sure it can be abused like crazy in a division, i did that with some of my clanmates yesterday too but its nowhere near OP because it needs very specific situations and potatos to run havoc. At the end of the day it's just an Atlanta with smoke and better torps (which dont make a huge difference)

 

I cant really see that you answered my question tho? How do you counter it?

 

- Don't push without knowing where the flint currently is, wait until it gets spotted once at least to confirm its position  So pretty much play like you are scared to crapby the Flint then? Avoiding it at all costs? And thats NOT a sign that it is OP?!

- If you push make sure you have some kind of torpedo or radar support  And what are youre support gonna do? against a huge smokecloud sphewing torps and HE on you? Shoot or torp at something it cant see? Sure you can watch the shells but if he moves around in this you wont be afficient. And you 3 will still need to deal with all the incoming fire from allt the other ships spotting you since you now are pushing in. And this pretty much needs a Division of 3 to do this , because getting help from 2 randoms isnt really an option.

- Wait out the smoke and then just kill it while staying 12-13km away from it. Sure, you can try and kill it in the 30 second window between smokes , but are you really gonna be able? Its not just him and you, you will still need to deal with getting spotted, tyrped, shot by everybody else?

 

This ship only works against people that have no clue about how to deal with these kind of situations and if you come up with the division argument now i will counter it by just saying your own division can outplay that crap all day and night especially if its a proper division setup with DD/BB/CA | DD/DD/CA | DD/DD/BB I ask again, how will deal with this? Still wan an answer. And if you need a Division for it it kind of is OP isnt it?

 

I really dont see it being such a big deal... sure it can be abused like crazy in a division, i did that with some of my clanmates yesterday too but its nowhere near OP because it needs very specific situations and potatos to run havoc. At the end of the day it's just an Atlanta with smoke and better torps (which dont make a huge difference) Yeah, and what is the drawbacks to the Atlanta? Why do people hate the Atlanta? Stealth and torps! Mostly stealth! So they pretty much took away the only drawbacks it had. Was all the sitiations "Specific" in the video? No it wasent. It doesnt need any "Specific" situations at all, It needs to see a enemy ship, pop smoke and go to town on it.?! And if the enemy sail together? What are they gonna do? Shoot more at the smoke. And how long are they gonna sail together after getting 3 fires on deck and incoming torps?

 

It would be awsome if you could tell me how to deal with this!

[ToxicWomble]

what armour does it have though(not seen the video)seriously if it has the same armour as the Atlanta then it will sink just as easy 

 

[Kuso_Teitoku]

As to Radar, Indys and Atlantas both have it now - and most Indy players I saw in ranked played well. They often parked on central rocks but out of line of fire while using radar. 

 

I forgot about the new atlanta Radar, but both Indy and Atlant have pretty short radar range, around 8 km, dont they?

So they would need to get pretty close. Seems you had better Indy players then I did ;) Mine never got close enough to use their radar effectively

 

 

To sum up my thoughts, I think flint might be a bit OP

 

this is not about a cruiser having smoke in general (kutuzov seems fine), this is about a T7 cruiser having a T10 DD smoke without there being a good counter at T7

 

Time will tell