What I do not like in WoWs.

[brutus007]

Do not get me wrong - I still play WoWs, but there is lot of issues I would like to talk about.

 

1) Blatant disrespect to current players and undercutting to new players. There was always tons of invite codes with nice bonuses and not so much for current accounts. However last "invite a friend" special is slap into face for veteran players.

2) PtW in form of premium ships which are clearly superior to their normal counterparts. This is something WG was able to (mostly) avoid in WoT and I have no idea why they implemented this in WoWs.

3) Some of the game core mechanics are promoting bad gameplay (camping). In more then 2/3 of my games BB's are simply camping edge of the map and and trying RNG shots at max distance.

4) Some of the game mechanics are implemented poorly with terrible balance issues (CV's & AA).

5) Some tiers are completely unbalanced (low tiers and DD's, torpedoes etc)

6) Map variety is quite poor

 

Overall I am not quite happy with WoWs and if I look at the number of players on the server I think I am not alone. As I have stated - I still play, but it is mostly because I really like ships... as from the gaming experience I am not that much impressed at all.

 

[ColonelPete]

1)I got rewards. If you are a playing customer, you got them too.

[BabyAdmiral]

As I have stated - I still play, but it is mostly because I really like ships... as from the gaming experience I am not that much impressed at all.

 

Interesting. For me it's the opposite. I had no prior interest in ships (or tanks for that matter) before getting to know Wargaming games. The ships look good and all, but it's the gameplay that have gotten me hooked on WoWs.

[SV_Kompresor]

I was about to agree, and then I saw this

2) PtW in form of premium ships which are clearly superior to their normal counterparts. This is something WG was able to (mostly) avoid in WoT and I have no idea why they implemented this in WoWs.

 

Anybody who thinks premium ships here are p2w is just incompetent when playing against them, because they really aren't (even saipan isn't p2w. It is overpowered but it still doesn't guarantee you a win)

[brutus007]

I was about to agree, and then I saw this

 

Anybody who thinks premium ships here are p2w is just incompetent when playing against them, because they really aren't (even saipan isn't p2w. It is overpowered but it still doesn't guarantee you a win)

 

I think we simply do not share the same view on definition of P2W.

For me P2W is any item in the cash shop which gives advantage over similar item you can get via actually paying the game. This is something which is IMHO fully achieved with Kutuzov, Atago and if info about KM BB line is true also Tirpitz. (I am quite sure there is more but I have not read through all the specs of all ships)

 

Just to be specific (shameless copy/paste from great review by LittleWhiteMouse here http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/73921-premium-ship-review-vmf-mikhail-kutuzov-20/ ) ....  :

Like the pre-order destroyer, the Mikhail Kutuzov is better than the same tier Soviet counterpart found in the tech tree.  You need only go through the checklist, comparing the Chapayev to the Mikhail Kutuzov.

 

• Gunnery:  They have the same guns, but the Mikhail Kutuzov is longer ranged.  (Winner: Mikhail Kutuzov)
• Secondaries:  The Chapayev's torpedoes hit harder and are faster but she has less of them and they are painfully short ranged. (Winner:  Mikhail Kutuzov). 
• Durability:  The Chapayev has less HP and a similar armour scheme, but has radar.  The Mikhail Kutuzov has more HP, better AA power and a smoke screen. (Winner:  Mikhail Kutuzov)
• Maneuverability:  The Chapayev is 0.5 knots faster but has much worse rudder shift and almost a 900m turning circle.  (Winner: Mikhail Kutuzov)
• Concealment:  The Chapayev is more stealth (Winner:  Chapayev).

 

[SV_Kompresor]

 

I think we simply do not share the same view on definition of P2W.

For me P2W is any item in the cash shop which gives advantage over similar item you can get via actually paying the game. This is something which is IMHO fully achieved with Kutuzov, Atago and if info about KM BB line is true also Tirpitz. (I am quite sure there is more but I have not read through all the specs of all ships)

 

Just to be specific (shameless copy/paste from great review by LittleWhiteMouse here http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/73921-premium-ship-review-vmf-mikhail-kutuzov-20/ ) ....  :

Like the pre-order destroyer, the Mikhail Kutuzov is better than the same tier Soviet counterpart found in the tech tree.  You need only go through the checklist, comparing the Chapayev to the Mikhail Kutuzov.

 

• Gunnery:  They have the same guns, but the Mikhail Kutuzov is longer ranged.  (Winner: Mikhail Kutuzov)
• Secondaries:  The Chapayev's torpedoes hit harder and are faster but she has less of them and they are painfully short ranged. (Winner:  Mikhail Kutuzov). 
• Durability:  The Chapayev has less HP and a similar armour scheme, but has radar.  The Mikhail Kutuzov has more HP, better AA power and a smoke screen. (Winner:  Mikhail Kutuzov)
• Maneuverability:  The Chapayev is 0.5 knots faster but has much worse rudder shift and almost a 900m turning circle.  (Winner: Mikhail Kutuzov)
• Concealment:  The Chapayev is more stealth (Winner:  Chapayev).

 

 

Fair enough, although none of these are unfair advantages, they are very slight ones, they have a very very small chance of impacting the results of the match by themselves.... This is why tirpitz got its bad reputation. Because almost everybody who bought it when it was first on sale was a complete noob. I actually hated my tirpitz for a long time because it's unable to penetrate any BB whose captain knows that the word angling starts with the letter A.

 

For me the definition of P2W is something that gives you an unfair advantage (example would be gold ammo in WoT), so yeah, we see it differently

[Quetak]

I dont see P2W issues here. I have some premium ships (T2-6) and dont think that they are super strong against standard ships.

Its same like any other ships. All have some strengths and weaknesses.

Their biggest benefit is that they are credit machines (looking at you Warspite) so when I need credits its way to go.

 

[KaLeuWillenbrock]

well .. it should have been like premiums in wot. most of them were somewhere between stock and fully researched. off course there are exceptions as well - its still wargaming but most premium-tanks were quite ok - especially those that could be brought from the ingame tree with gold. they have less HP, a weaker gun, they are slower ect. most of them were not op - thats where the russion experimental tanks are there for. ;) 

 

edited because ... wrong language

 

[Robert_Parsons]

First Post ever...

I am not convinced this game is P2W, yes you can buy various ships which can be better or at least different from the normal tech tree ones but it is what you do with that ship that gets you the win.

 

All ships can be hit by shells or bombs or trops, In fact you can be the best player with the best ever paid for ship and still lose every game if the team your with is poor or the other side is just better or luckier. 

 

Even with the best ship in the game if the other side gangs up on you your dead. 

 

 

[Zogash85]

I sort of have to agree with the OP here. While playing (at least some of the) premium ships doesn't guarantee a win, it certainly makes your life a whole lot easier. For example, the Murmansk is clearly superior to the regular Omaha in every way that counts, the Gremy clearly outmatches the Gnevny, and the Tirpitz is far more survivable than its Tier 8 peers (for the simple fact that it is incredibly hard to citadel other than with lucky plunging shots), plus it gets torps. I'm especially worried how the Bismarck will perform by comparison. I doubt the improved secondaries will make up for losing the sheer stopping power of the torpedoes, but I guess we'll have to see. I'm not getting my hopes up, though. That you can always put your best captain in them doesn't hurt either.

And let's not even talk about the Imperator Nikolai... if she isn't more powerful than the regular Russian BBs will be, then Njord help us all.

 

Obviously, there are stinkers among the premiums as well: Krasny Krim, Campbelltown, Yubari, and Marblehead range from 'ok' to downright pathetic, but at least they can be used as crew trainers...

 

I'm actually glad they didn't stick to the WoT style of premiums being slightly (or in some cases far) worse than the regular tech tree vehicles - who wants to pay for and play an inferior machine, after all? - but to make some of them significantly better than their tech tree counterparts, that takes it too far, imho.

[cpt_gandy]

Do not get me wrong - I still play WoWs, but there is lot of issues I would like to talk about.

 

1) Blatant disrespect to current players and undercutting to new players. There was always tons of invite codes with nice bonuses and not so much for current accounts. However last "invite a friend" special is slap into face for veteran players.

2) PtW in form of premium ships which are clearly superior to their normal counterparts. This is something WG was able to (mostly) avoid in WoT and I have no idea why they implemented this in WoWs.

3) Some of the game core mechanics are promoting bad gameplay (camping). In more then 2/3 of my games BB's are simply camping edge of the map and and trying RNG shots at max distance.

4) Some of the game mechanics are implemented poorly with terrible balance issues (CV's & AA).

5) Some tiers are completely unbalanced (low tiers and DD's, torpedoes etc)

6) Map variety is quite poor

 

Overall I am not quite happy with WoWs and if I look at the number of players on the server I think I am not alone. As I have stated - I still play, but it is mostly because I really like ships... as from the gaming experience I am not that much impressed at all.

 

On point 2

are you sure you are not confusing p2w with skill as this seems to be a growing trend at the moment as you put any ship in the hands of a high skill player and they will do really well it, put the same ship in the hands of a low skill player and they will do badly almost all the time in it so does that seem pay to win or does it seem like skill is the deciding factor on how well a player does with a ship.

 

You seem to want really bad premium ships while everyone else wants good premium ships for the tiers they are in. If you want to play bad premium content then maybe this is not the game for you.

 

Point 3 is related to a players skill level and there is very little WG can do about that, us players should help educate boarder huggers as the first team that has to turn and run tends to lose the battle. Most people just rant instead of helping.

 

On point 4.

 

Cv game play needs some rework but it does not need to go back to easy mode for Cv players as that is what people seem to want, one single cv player should not always be able to decide the outcome of a battle as this is a team game and most Cv players are not team players sadly . Cv players should have to fight like the rest of the team to do damage and get kills and there is plenty of Cv players progressing through the tiers that don't seem to have the issues the older Cv players do so maybe some adjustment in tactics is needed as well. More players have woken up to the need of doing aa builds on their captains which should make it harder for Cv players. I run a manual aa and stealth build on my zao and that does pretty well against tier 10 Cv captains so it's working as intended and the Cv captain has to use his brains to land torps on my ship.

[KaLeuWillenbrock]

@zogash85

 

you can always give premium ships premium matchmaking ... in this case, a slightly "worse" ship would not be a really big problem. premium ships/tanks are there to make money and xp (and to train crews). they are not there to have the greatest games ever - they are there, to make money for high tier matches.

[praetor_jax]

I have to agree with most of his points. Still dont think its pay to win though, premium ships tend to have more extras that make them special, but overall they feel on par with standard ships.

[Admiral_noodle]

Imperator Nikolai generally proves premiums are not p2w because she is clearly an aberration. And even then she's not got a 80%+ WR. So even Nikolai is "pay to win more" not p2w... And you can't buy her now because WG know she is OP.

[Ferry_25]

1)I got rewards. If you are a playing customer, you got them too.

 

No you don't. At least I'm not getting anything. Don't mean to whine or something. It's just a fact.

[Exustio]

It amazes me that people seem to forget that premiums in the game are not supposed to be played like its "tier equivalent". People crying that that Kutuzov is superior to the Chapayev, and the Murmansk is superior to the Omaha...... To be completely honoust, those are stupid comparisions to make, and here are a few reasons why: 

 

1. If premium ships are exactly the same as their "counterparts", why even bother designing new models. Atago would simply be Mogami 2.0, Murmansk would be Omaha 2.0. Yea, that will surely entice more people to spend money on the game. Not to mention, premiums are 40 euro's (ish), and can u imagine the hailstorm of rage's when WG simply says "This premium (sims) is precisely a Mahan, except u get camo that increases credit/xp gain". Rehashing content does not work, and because the models are different, then the stats are different, which results in a different play style. 

 

2. People cry that premium ships are OP. Thats half the truth, one or 2 are , however the majority is not. Yes, tirpitz has awesome armour, rarely gets citadelled at all. However because it has awesome armour, it rarely gets overpenetrations either. This means that you will get 12k+ dmg salvos from any other BB out there if u are not carefull. Same can be said about the kutuzov, apparently, its superior to the Chapayev. I have played both, and i got both, and i can safely say, u do not play the kutuzov like a chapayev. Chapayev has great guns, whereas the Kutuzov has less favourable ones, however the kutuzov is king of AA when compared to its tiered counterpart. Each ship has its strength and weaknesses, it is your job to understand them. 

 

3. If the game is actually p2w, then EVERYBODY, regardless of skill, should perform beyond rediculous in a certain ship. They dont. A ship can only be as good as its captain, so if u see a good player playing a premium ship, then obv you are going to think its OP. This is however because he spent the time and effort into knowing the ship he is actually sailing! P2W doesnt work in the game, cause P2W decreases the need of requiring skill to win. 

 

Lets not forget, there are premiums out there that are far from P2W, but people seem to conveniently forget that the moment they pull the arguement "p2w" out of the sack. There is NEVER going to be a completely balanced game, no matter how many rules/changes/regulations we invent to try to get close to this. The only way to achieve PERFECT balance, is to have everybody sail the exact same ship on a mirror map. In both cases, it will get boring as [edited]very VERY fast. Nobody wants to play against 12 yamato's, or 12 Shima's, or even 12 Atago's, and have people complain about a lackluster map roster. Can u imagine the cries when every single map is mirrored? 

 

There will always be favourites amongst ships, and there will always be maps favourable to certain type of ships. This diversity is what keeps ANY game going. 

 

It is up to the player to see the difference between ships and maps and play accordingly.

 

You don't play a ship to how u think it should be played. YOU are playing that particular ship in a way that will benefit the strengths of the ship the most on a location in the map where u have the most impact. 

[ColonelPete]

 

No you don't. At least I'm not getting anything. Don't mean to whine or something. It's just a fact.

I have no idea how you manage that.

Do you even play? Heck, even without playing you could get rewards in the past. The last gift were 100 gold for logging in.

[KaLeuWillenbrock]

@ exustio

 

saying "i payed 40 € for this thing, i want better performance!" does not help. you pay the 40€, to make ingame credits. its like a permanent premium account for one ship - its there to make ingame money and xp, to finance other ships.

 

premium ships should never be better than their tier-counterparts - equal in terms of performance? sure! better, because you paid money for it? no way! you have the currency-bonus AND a free premium-camo. that should be enough.

[Gunerstile]

 

1) Blatant disrespect to current players and undercutting to new players. There was always tons of invite codes with nice bonuses and not so much for current accounts. However last "invite a friend" special is slap into face for veteran players.

2) PtW in form of premium ships which are clearly superior to their normal counterparts. This is something WG was able to (mostly) avoid in WoT and I have no idea why they implemented this in WoWs.

3) Some of the game core mechanics are promoting bad gameplay (camping). In more then 2/3 of my games BB's are simply camping edge of the map and and trying RNG shots at max distance.

4) Some of the game mechanics are implemented poorly with terrible balance issues (CV's & AA).

5) Some tiers are completely unbalanced (low tiers and DD's, torpedoes etc)

6) Map variety is quite poor

 

 

 

1. I dont agree.

2. Not true, only arguable better premium than regular ship is the Texas due to insane AA.

3. True, but not WGs fault. Most peoples are cowards who dont know how to play this game.

4. Debatable, yea I would say its bad but acceptable, there is a lot of room for improvement, that much is true.

5. I would rather say that high tiers are unbalanced and not so interesting to play. (IX and X).

6. Not so bad as it used to be but yes, there is also a lot of room for improvement here too.

[SinkTheOthersNotMe]

P2W? Have a lot of battles under my belt in WOT and I always hated premium rounds or the Type 59 just to name a few.

 

WOWS premiums ships and other stuff: Premium consumables give a small advantage but nothing like P2W and for the ships although I love my molotov, tirpitz and sims -> they are in no way P2W simply because:

 

I regularly sink tirpitz, sims or molotov while using same tier regular tech tree ships -> because plenty of untrained people buy those (which keeps the game alive by the way)

 

Closer to P2W notion but not yet there: Gremy or Nikolai are OP ships but not so OP they are unsinkable

 

Now P2W in WOWS would be:

- Premium rounds that can citadel anything even if the target is bow on and perfectly slightly angled (or HE rounds with 100% fire chance)

- Clearly nearly unsinkable premium ship

- Premium DD with 4km concealment + 3x5 torps that go at 90knts and can only be spotted at 0.5km

and so on.....

That would be P2W and I would stop paying and simply leave the game.

[Zogash85]

@Exustio

 

I see where you're coming from, and I'm all for diversity in the game, but there does have to be balance, and, at least imho, a semblance of sense.

 

Your bringing up of Atago kind of proves my point: Atago is a Takao-class cruiser, not a Mogami-class, so you can expect them to play and perform differently (let me just state for the record that I think all Tier 8 cruisers should get the Repair Party consumable to buff their survivability a bit, but that's beside the point). Murmansk, on the other hand, is an Omaha-class cruiser, as is Marblehead. You'd expect ships of the same class to perform very similarly indeed - then why does Murmansk, using the same guns, get a much higher range than her sisters? It makes no sense.

 

Your first point is pretty much disproven by what we can see in WoT - e.g. the premium Cromwell B plays pretty much exactly like the regular Cromwell, yet people are still all over it every time it's on sale. Its added XP and credit earnings, and great crew-trainer ability seem to be reason enough to buy it. Same for the IS-2. So you see, rehashing content does work, if it's done right. If I could get my hands on a premium Cleveland-class cruiser that performs exactly like the regular Cleveland, but gets a higher XP and credit income multiplier, and can be used as a crewtrainer, I'd buy it in a heartbeat, and so would many others, undoubtedly.

 

Concerning your second point, yes, Tirpitz is obviously killable, but unlike NC and Amagi, she can afford to show her broadside occasionally. Show your broadside in your NC for even a moment, and it's citadel city even for CAs! Tirpitz is far more forgiving of mistakes than her peers are. Useless players will still fail in her most of the time, but they won't fail as hard as they would in the NC.

[AnotherDuck]

Some premium ships are better than their equal tier standard counterparts.

 

Some standard ships are better than their equal tier premium counterparts.

 

What's the problem?

[Mayv]

 

Your first point is pretty much disproven by what we can see in WoT - e.g. the premium Cromwell B plays pretty much exactly like the regular Cromwell, yet people are still all over it every time it's on sale. Its added XP and credit earnings, and great crew-trainer ability seem to be reason enough to buy it. Same for the IS-2. So you see, rehashing content does work, if it's done right. If I could get my hands on a premium Cleveland-class cruiser that performs exactly like the regular Cleveland, but gets a higher XP and credit income multiplier, and can be used as a crewtrainer, I'd buy it in a heartbeat, and so would many others, undoubtedly.

 

 

I think part of the reason the Cromwell B and IS2 are  so popular is because of the 100% crew with 0th level Brothers in Arms skill. That could fall under P2W as it is an advantage you can only get by paying.

[Ze_Reckless]

I say russian ship bias > premium ship bias.

Though krispy kream is an outlier.

 

You don't need to pay to enjoy this game. All you get for paying is more diversity in ships and you can reach high-tier camp battles faster.

[ajappat]

Uh oh, someone mentioned P2W, shitstorm incoming.

 

It's not hard to see that many premiums ships are stronger than their regular counterparts.