CV is only contested by the enemy CV!

[plammbeach]

.........

 

i had a game today actually a few, and most of them was decided to which team that had the better cv.  - I dont dislike the CV in general. but i must say i get abit salty when one team has a pro cv and the other has a potato... the game is basicly decided in advance. - even if im on the team with the better cv.

 

 

your thoughts?

[KaraMon]

force everyone with WR lower than 50% to play co-op only, i bet they wont notice they are beaten by bots

[beercrazy]

.........

 

i had a game today actually a few, and most of them was decided to which team that had the better cv.  - I dont dislike the CV in general. but i must say i get abit salty when one team has a pro cv and the other has a potato... the game is basicly decided in advance. - even if im on the team with the better cv.

 

 

your thoughts?

 

tbh you should always presume the enemy has a good cv player and adjust your play to it

watch for where planes are on mini map and turn towards em when they come at you and always stick in groups so it makes it harder for the enemy cv player to get easy torp hits

no mater how good the enemy cv player Is you can working as a team counter it but the problem is the word "team" as most of the time most players just go of and do what they want and ignore the team

[KptStrzyga]

.........

 

i had a game today actually a few, and most of them was decided to which team that had the better cv.  - I dont dislike the CV in general. but i must say i get abit salty when one team has a pro cv and the other has a potato... the game is basicly decided in advance. - even if im on the team with the better cv.

 

 

your thoughts?

How many AA improving skills has your captain? Did you spend precious upgrade slot for AA range upgrade or for something else? If you have so many problems playing against CV I can guess you didn`t bother with good AA setup.

So why are you blaming others if you aren`t doing anything to protect yourself from planes?

These days almost every ship has AA good enough to make unpenetrable wall of himself for any CV. All you need is few skills and module slot. 

[Antique_Nova]

Always turn towards the torpedoes and never away. Trust me, you'll really annoy a CV player by doing that as you'll force him to spend more time trying to get the perfect run on you and you're more likely to dodge his torps.

[Cmdr_Kouta]

Well actualy most ships that where upgraded during the 41/42 time, where quiet able to kill of fighters and bombers good enogh. Exept 4 CV's with a total of like 300 planes attack one single target, wich in most cases did not happen. Even then, most planes would either be shoot down (i consider that lucky) or have to crashland their planes as their to badly dmg'd to even properly land, in the proces either making it, or dieing wile actualy made it home (wich is worse than being shoot down by AA). So well WG still has a lot to do, they might thing that midway , leyete gulf and of corse the last stand of the yamato had only limited loses to CV planes.. this is clearly wrong. IJN AA guns in total might have ben inferior, yet still duo to extensive use of Sanshikidan shells (Beehive shells as their also called yet their name is Type 3 Shells and their not only for AA fire, their also quiet good against ground instalations (kongou proved this as well as some other ships) most planes that where lucky enogh not to get shoot down had extensive damadge dealt to them making them imposible to use afterwards. This is still missing ingame and should be handled more like :Squad took dmg and lost a few planes in the process, yet the total remaining health is lower than like 10 to 20 % of the max health, making them useless and even when landing should be considerd lost. Would even ballance Hakuryuu's awesome bomber assault , she would not lose many planes, yet some of them would still be useless afterward.

[GulvkluderGuld]

Have to agree with the op, he has a point about reasonably close games.

 

A good CV will hunt down the other teams dds or keep them permaspotted --> almost impossible for this team to get caps.

A good CV will also do tons of dmg and probably sink 3-4 ships because the potato is unable to stop him.

Meanwhile the potato does basically nothing useful and probably no dmg.

 

How many AA improving skills has your captain? Did you spend precious upgrade slot for AA range upgrade or for something else? If you have so many problems playing against CV I can guess you didn`t bother with good AA setup.

So why are you blaming others if you aren`t doing anything to protect yourself from planes?

These days almost every ship has AA good enough to make unpenetrable wall of himself for any CV. All you need is few skills and module slot. 

 

Works for cruisers and bb, but you fail to grasp is the kind of targets a good cv will go after.

take out the enemy teams dds and they cant cap, cant spot and will lose very fast because bigger ships will be perma-spotted with no means of defending themselves. Meanwhile the potato CV player will lose most of his planes torping some big fat bb.

 

Ironically the recent aa buffs you mention also means the only real target for a cv atm is the enemy dds.

Again, a bad CV player isnt able to line up the torps properly and make them impossible to dodge for the dd while a good one will sink them reliably.

 

And we all know from Ranked games what happens when one side loses all their dds.

[AgarwaenME]

force everyone with WR lower than 50% to play co-op only, i bet they wont notice they are beaten by bots

 

You do realise that this would mean that in the end there would be exactly one person playing random battles?

[AgarwaenME]

Well actualy most ships that where upgraded during the 41/42 time, where quiet able to kill of fighters and bombers good enogh. Exept 4 CV's with a total of like 300 planes attack one single target, wich in most cases did not happen. Even then, most planes would either be shoot down (i consider that lucky) or have to crashland their planes as their to badly dmg'd to even properly land, in the proces either making it, or dieing wile actualy made it home (wich is worse than being shoot down by AA). So well WG still has a lot to do, they might thing that midway , leyete gulf and of corse the last stand of the yamato had only limited loses to CV planes.. this is clearly wrong. IJN AA guns in total might have ben inferior, yet still duo to extensive use of Sanshikidan shells (Beehive shells as their also called yet their name is Type 3 Shells and their not only for AA fire, their also quiet good against ground instalations (kongou proved this as well as some other ships) most planes that where lucky enogh not to get shoot down had extensive damadge dealt to them making them imposible to use afterwards. This is still missing ingame and should be handled more like :Squad took dmg and lost a few planes in the process, yet the total remaining health is lower than like 10 to 20 % of the max health, making them useless and even when landing should be considerd lost. Would even ballance Hakuryuu's awesome bomber assault , she would not lose many planes, yet some of them would still be useless afterward.

 

This is just absurdly wrong in pretty much every detail.

[Phlogistoned]

 

This is just absurdly wrong in pretty much every detail.

 

I'm not familiar with everything he says, but Yamato was attacked by many hundreds of planes over quite a long time - that is correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ten-Go

 

"Around 10:00 on 7 April, Task Groups 58.1 and 58.3 (TG 58.1 and 58.3) began launching almost 400 aircraft in several waves from eight carriers"

"At about 12:30, 280 bomber and torpedo bomber aircraft arrived over the Japanese force."

"The second attack started just before 13:00."

"The third and most damaging attack developed at about 13:40."

 

However; "A total of 10 U.S. aircraft were shot down by anti-aircraft fire from the Japanese ships".

 

That doesn't sound like the AA was "quiet able to kill of fighters and bombers good enogh".

 

On the other hand, Yamato was relatively unscathed after the first attack (of 280!! planes), so maybe the AA was _effective_ enough - until multiple hits and strafing on the superstructure took out and suppressed a lot of AA guns, allowing the third attack to unfold.

 

[plammbeach]

Always turn towards the torpedoes and never away. Trust me, you'll really annoy a CV player by doing that as you'll force him to spend more time trying to get the perfect run on you and you're more likely to dodge his torps.

 

 

"Just remember i dont mind losing a game!, or having my vessel destroyed!"

 

yesterday i was in a game with my gearing, i wont give him pride by naming him. but let us just say he only play cv.

He was targeting dd first target, - nothing really you could do.  we was even ahead on scoreboard by alot.! but the game slowly tilted their way. our fleet 4 bb and 2 ca got slowly picked of by him one by one. nothing they could do..! .

I just noticed the major difference when a good cv plays against a bad cv..! The game was already decided/lost the moment it started...

 

What i'm trying to say, if a game is decided by 1 ship.! and 2 players. i would like a concede flag,

 

 

 

[AgarwaenME]

 

I'm not familiar with everything he says, but Yamato was attacked by many hundreds of planes over quite a long time - that is correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ten-Go

 

"Around 10:00 on 7 April, Task Groups 58.1 and 58.3 (TG 58.1 and 58.3) began launching almost 400 aircraft in several waves from eight carriers"

"At about 12:30, 280 bomber and torpedo bomber aircraft arrived over the Japanese force."

"The second attack started just before 13:00."

"The third and most damaging attack developed at about 13:40."

 

However; "A total of 10 U.S. aircraft were shot down by anti-aircraft fire from the Japanese ships".

 

That doesn't sound like the AA was "quiet able to kill of fighters and bombers good enogh".

 

On the other hand, Yamato was relatively unscathed after the first attack (of 280!! planes), so maybe the AA was _effective_ enough - until multiple hits and strafing on the superstructure took out and suppressed a lot of AA guns, allowing the third attack to unfold.

 

 

It's wrong for precisely the reason you state.

[Aotearas]

.........

 

i had a game today actually a few, and most of them was decided to which team that had the better cv.  - I dont dislike the CV in general. but i must say i get abit salty when one team has a pro cv and the other has a potato... the game is basicly decided in advance. - even if im on the team with the better cv.

 

 

your thoughts?

 

A good CV player is a big threat, moreso than any other single ship played well, but it's not an automatic game winner. If a single CV can win the game, then the recieving team was cooperating with their demise. Even a good CV can only make a dozen or so attack runs during an entire game until the time limit runs out, so unless he kills his target with every strike or maybe even multiple targets by splitting his attack planes, he won't win the game by himself ... and if every strike is successful, you'll have ample reason to distrust the victims' evasion skills.

[Cosseria]

 

It's wrong for precisely the reason you state.

 

That was Jap AA with their useless guns. Now go see what an US ship like South Dakota could achieve during the Battle of Santa Cruz. 5" proximity fuzed rounds and 40 mm Bofors with their gyroscopic directors were another matter entirely. 

[RamirezKurita]

 

I'm not familiar with everything he says, but Yamato was attacked by many hundreds of planes over quite a long time - that is correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ten-Go

 

"Around 10:00 on 7 April, Task Groups 58.1 and 58.3 (TG 58.1 and 58.3) began launching almost 400 aircraft in several waves from eight carriers"

"At about 12:30, 280 bomber and torpedo bomber aircraft arrived over the Japanese force."

"The second attack started just before 13:00."

"The third and most damaging attack developed at about 13:40."

 

However; "A total of 10 U.S. aircraft were shot down by anti-aircraft fire from the Japanese ships".

 

That doesn't sound like the AA was "quiet able to kill of fighters and bombers good enogh".

 

On the other hand, Yamato was relatively unscathed after the first attack (of 280!! planes), so maybe the AA was _effective_ enough - until multiple hits and strafing on the superstructure took out and suppressed a lot of AA guns, allowing the third attack to unfold.

 

 

​Well, it's also worth mentioning that everything in-game is far more fragile than it was historically. Historically, the Yamato might have been able to shoot down only 10 aircraft, but it also took multiple waves for basically the entirety of TF58 to bring her down. Similarly, the Musashi took 19 torpedoes and multiple bomb hits to bring down, which is in stark contrast to an in-game Yamato class that would be seriously threatened by an attack run from 16 torpedo bombers.

[Erik_Aukan]

 

CVs are rare in high tier games nowadays, for many reasons. In mid tier they

can be powerful, but can not loose any aircraft before the squadrons are depleted.

 

Personally I don't think CVs offer the same fun as the other ship classes

do, and they are plagued by bugs and the airgroup loadout mechanic is bad.

Before the battle you have to decide if you are going strike or Air supperiority.

That's like having to choose AP or HE if you play a cruiser or a BB.

 

I play BBs and cruisers most, but I also want to play carriers. The problem with 

high tier carrier play is that you are limited to a fixed squadron loadout throughout the entire game.

If you meet a AS carrier as a strike, a good player can basically lock down your carrier. On the other

hand, the other carrier only manages to counter 1 of the enemy ships, and when it's done, the game

usually consists of scouting for the other teammates.

 

That's both boring and painful for both carriers.

 

I think the AA defence is good enough as it is. Most ships in high tier games have very good AA on their own,

in groups they are virtually no-fly zones. It is suicide for anything but a strike carrier to try to take out 

ships in a group, with heavy losses. Defensive AA ruins the accuracy, and don't even need to shoot down planes 

to disrupt hitting the target.

 

I rarely see carriers in high tier games tier 8-10, but people complain about them anyways.

I agree that a potato player can ruin the teams effort, and you can screw up a lot in a carrier, but a DD going behind BBs in the start of the game will be equally bad, together with BBs shooting at max range and cruisers suicide run in the front.

 

Bad players ruins the game for the team regardless of what ship they have. Carriers have a special role, so it is noticable when the player is a potato.

 

I've lost more games from bad BBs and DDs. The counter for them is a carrier. High tier games have suffered with stagnant

gameplay, with DDs dominating the minds of the players.

Torpedo soup is a real thing, and something BBs and large cruisers want to avoid. A carrier can break up this stalemate, and forces the players to play better and more dynamic, back and forth.

I think it is a good thing, but CVs need to be improved in how they work today. They are just not enjoyable with the bugs and limitations they have at the moment. Having the ability to change loadout would make them atleast more flexible.

The main problem the OP has, is a bad CV player on his team. Balancing ships will not change that.

You already have the tools in the game to protect you from carriers. 

 

[Unintentional_submarine]

 Similarly, the Musashi took 19 torpedoes and multiple bomb hits to bring down, which is in stark contrast to an in-game Yamato class that would be seriously threatened by an attack run from 16 torpedo bombers.

 

Not really. Musashi was also attacked over multiple waves. Should a Yamato ingame be allowed time to heal up it too would probably be able to soak up 19 torps. It is not really a fair comparison to say that 16 TBs attacking at once would kill a Yamato and then compare it to Musashi which was served by excellent damage control over several hours of attacks (and it should be noted shot down relative few planes, similar to Yamato in her final sortie).

[LilJumpa]

Never seen a thread, which is not an obvious Trollthread, derail and go in a completely different direction so fast.

 

I'll keep it short, since it seems useless anyway:

 

It's harder to carry games with a bad CV on your side vs good CV on the enemy team( almost impossible with 2 vs 2 CVs).

Reason for that is it can't really be countered with another shipclass. I can only fend off his attacks to a certain degree but that comes with the cost of either giving up map control or with the impossible task to bring team game to randoms.

 

[lup3s]

I think it's a bigger problem in low tiers than at higher tiers, as at low tiers the AA is really ineffective.

If one of the CVs manages to snipe the other one in the early stages of the match, the team with the remaining CV usually ends up being the winner (unless the rest of that team are absolute donkeys).

 

It's frustrating to have a potato CV on your team but there's not much to do about it. In the end it's still a 50/50 chance to get the better CV player on your team, so this shouldn't account much to your global WR.

[Bortasqu]

Always turn towards the torpedoes and never away. Trust me, you'll really annoy a CV player by doing that as you'll force him to spend more time trying to get the perfect run on you and you're more likely to dodge his torps.

 

I wish I could always have your enemy CV's on the opposite team. When I queue into a random battle, I get 1 CV that's torpedo loaded, he circles his planes at 5-6km until I get bored of turning, (BB's especially) and when I've lost 90% of my speed, then he cross drops everything he has on me. Repeat until I'm dead or a friendly CA actually bothered to look at the minimap.

 

Yay, balance.

 

Edit: Engrish.

[SV_Kompresor]

How about this:

-Slightly buff AA on ships of tiers 4 and 5 so they can at least defend themselves

-Nerf AA on montana, north carolina and Iowa to what it was before it was OP

-Nerf AA on high tier US and KM cruisers very slightly

-Give hiryu tier 7 TBs

-Give saipan tier 8 planes

-Give certain US carriers an option to remove one of their dive bomber squadrons in exchange for a single 3 plane fighter squadron

[AgarwaenME]

 

That was Jap AA with their useless guns. Now go see what an US ship like South Dakota could achieve during the Battle of Santa Cruz. 5" proximity fuzed rounds and 40 mm Bofors with their gyroscopic directors were another matter entirely. 

 

"Lets pick a situation where one side were entirely out of experienced pilots and using quickly outdating equipment, only to try to enforce some view on "realism" so we can excuse nerfs for one type of ships".

[AgarwaenME]

 

​Well, it's also worth mentioning that everything in-game is far more fragile than it was historically. Historically, the Yamato might have been able to shoot down only 10 aircraft, but it also took multiple waves for basically the entirety of TF58 to bring her down. Similarly, the Musashi took 19 torpedoes and multiple bomb hits to bring down, which is in stark contrast to an in-game Yamato class that would be seriously threatened by an attack run from 16 torpedo bombers.

 

Which is offset by CVs only being able to send a small part of their aircraft at once. Feel free to make BBs take more realistic damage if you don't mind a t10 CV sending 120 planes in a single attack.

[22cm]

Unfortunately,  yes,  the only counter to CV is another CV. Cruisers can maybe defend against them,  but this requires a lot of teamwork which is not possible on randoms,  but not directly counter them. . There is also the disparity between Jap and US CVs,  so usually the team with the Jap CV is in advantage. 

[AgarwaenME]

Unfortunately,  yes,  the only counter to CV is another CV. Cruisers can maybe defend against them,  but this requires a lot of teamwork which is not possible on randoms,  but not directly counter them. . There is also the disparity between Jap and US CVs,  so usually the team with the Jap CV is in advantage. 

 

Oh look, 22cm lies about CVs again, it's like 2015 again.