[WPR] JackRansom Players 1,147 posts 22,837 battles Report post #1 Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) Let me say it right from the Start: I dont see this Topic as a " Whine Thread " even if some aspects could lead to that conclusion. And yes i know that Wargaming is only caring about the Russian forum but i still need to adress this. After six games in a row with Five Destroyers on each side i really think that the numbers of Destroyers in high Tier games should be limited. Because right now this directly effects the gameplay in a negative way. The Destroyers of both sides try to cap, smoke the moment they get detected and from that Moment on its a slow death on rates. No Ca or BB wants to get close because nobody wants to be the Idiot getting killed by a swarm of 15 Shima torpedoes or being constantly under Fire by a Khabarowsk without even being able to shoot back because you cant see the Enemy. The other teammates than complain especially about the BBs camping behind but with the insane Repair costs at Tier 9/X i can totally understand them. Carriers could be an Answer but the last AA Buff through the Patch made them a rare sight. And the short timed Radar is only available for US or Russian cruisers, the german and japanese are out. Maybe if Destroyers would be at least visible for a short amount of time when and after they fired Torpedoes, forcing them to act more carefully before shooting swarm after swarm of Torpedoes without any risk. But we know this wont happen. So again their Numbers should be limited because when almost half of the Team consists of a certain class - which also has the most advantages - you have to realize that the balancing is out of control.... My Idea would be maximum three Destroyers for each Side. Edited July 20, 2016 by Stahlmach 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PRAVD] duoinvasion Players 390 posts 9,058 battles Report post #2 Posted July 20, 2016 3 DD max per side is like perfect for the game the number of 4 cap maps is low anyways so 3 is the right amount 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[GOEPT] Crusherheads [GOEPT] Weekend Tester 559 posts Report post #3 Posted July 20, 2016 this has been asked for long time, and so far WG does not give a crap, they either balance it by type or numbers sadly, but never limited their numbers...quite stupid but meh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[3X] TeaCupYuri Players 118 posts 17,780 battles Report post #4 Posted July 20, 2016 Insane repairs cost... Game mode... No matter what. People will always find a way to camp regardless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[POMF] Pekoe_Darjeeling Weekend Tester 2,385 posts 10,008 battles Report post #5 Posted July 20, 2016 2dds per side max. Or even none. Last time I played Shimakaze it was 5v6 dds Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] AgarwaenME Beta Tester 4,811 posts 13,808 battles Report post #6 Posted July 20, 2016 No, it's definately a whine thread. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #7 Posted July 20, 2016 This again... Stay in the shadow of your DDs and no unseen torpedos can sneak up on you. Shimas are the most harmless ship at Tier X, but Yamatos in the enemy team are ok. So much logic. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_FTD_ ∞ Players 908 posts 10,097 battles Report post #8 Posted July 20, 2016 As someone who plays a lot of high tiers i can't really say that there are too many DD's around, people should stop being traumatized because of the old shimakaze meta... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[WPR] JackRansom Players 1,147 posts 22,837 battles Report post #9 Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) As someone who plays a lot of high tiers i can't really say that there are too many DD's around, people should stop being traumatized because of the old shimakaze meta... Its not only about the Shimakaze. Its the general negative effect on the Gameplay that comes with higher Numbers of any Destroyers. Edited July 20, 2016 by Stahlmach Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[WPR] JackRansom Players 1,147 posts 22,837 battles Report post #10 Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) This again... Stay in the shadow of your DDs and no unseen torpedos can sneak up on you. Shimas are the most harmless ship at Tier X, but Yamatos in the enemy team are ok. So much logic. Stay in the Shadow...Yeah great advice. While our DD can more or less avoid the Torpedo swarm, i in a Roon or a Hipper dont have the agility for fast enough Turns. And even if i can spot the DD, there is no possibility to destroy it with one single strike ( if he has full HP ) if not for the rare exception of Detonation. But he on the other side can do with it Torpedos without any Problems. And Yamatos may be a menace but at least i can see ! them and therefore also know when and at which direction they fire and how long until they reload. Edited July 20, 2016 by Stahlmach Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #11 Posted July 20, 2016 If you cannot avoid torpedos that are spotted 5+ km from you, you are doing it wrong. And no, gameplay is not different with less or even no DD. People are primarily afraid of BBs wiping them in one salvo. Therefore they stay back. It is much harder to evade shells than torpedos. Games with few or no BB tend to be more aggressive. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] Kenliero Players 2,478 posts 11,195 battles Report post #12 Posted July 20, 2016 Lol. Roon player whining about DD's.... When ever I play cruisers, I hope for maximum amount of DD's.... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HEROZ] GulvkluderGuld Players 3,467 posts 22,114 battles Report post #13 Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) Let me say it right from the Start: I dont see this Topic as a " Whine Thread " even if some aspects could lead to that conclusion. And yes i know that Wargaming is only caring about the Russian forum but i still need to adress this. After six games in a row with Five Destroyers on each side i really think that the numbers of Destroyers in high Tier games should be limited. Because right now this directly effects the gameplay in a negative way. The Destroyers of both sides try to cap, smoke the moment they get detected and from that Moment on its a slow death on rates. No Ca or BB wants to get close because nobody wants to be the Idiot getting killed by a swarm of 15 Shima torpedoes or being constantly under Fire by a Khabarowsk without even being able to shoot back because you cant see the Enemy. The other teammates than complain especially about the BBs camping behind but with the insane Repair costs at Tier 9/X i can totally understand them. Carriers could be an Answer but the last AA Buff through the Patch made them a rare sight. And the short timed Radar is only available for US or Russian cruisers, the german and japanese are out. Maybe if Destroyers would be at least visible for a short amount of time when and after they fired Torpedoes, forcing them to act more carefully before shooting swarm after swarm of Torpedoes without any risk. But we know this wont happen. So again their Numbers should be limited because when almost half of the Team consists of a certain class - which also has the most advantages - you have to realize that the balancing is out of control.... My Idea would be maximum three Destroyers for each Side. What you are describing sounds to me like a "light" version of the high Ranked meta: - Lots of dds = lots of smoke charges, generally used to shoot from and sometimes for capping. - Any capital ship (BB, CA) not covered in smoke by a DD is a sitting duck and gets BBQ'ed to death by out-of-smoke gunfire - the result in ranked is each team camping in smoke on a cap and very few enemy ships spotted by either side. - spotting is carried out by the DD with best concealment, using 1-2 dds for hit-and-run detection of enemy ships - each team seeks to eliminate the enemys spotting ship(s) and focuses fire Of course in Ranked, the team that is behind on points will usually send the BBs in and push as a fleet at some point. And everybody dodges torps extremely well, so smokescreens are CA magnets. I saw some bad teams in ranked without the degree of player skill and teamwork such a push requires. Basically those games were decided in the first 3 minutes and followed by up by the extremely protracted and agonizing death of one team. Congratulations, high tier player skill has improved! Edited July 20, 2016 by GulvkluderGuld Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #14 Posted July 20, 2016 I doubt that happens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[3X] TeaCupYuri Players 118 posts 17,780 battles Report post #15 Posted July 20, 2016 Stay in the Shadow...Yeah great advice. While our DD can more or less avoid the Torpedo swarm, i in a Roon or a Hipper dont have the agility for fast enough Turns. And even if i can spot the DD, there is no possibility to destroy it with one single strike ( if he has full HP ) if not for the rare exception of Detonation. But he on the other side can do with it Torpedos without any Problems. And Yamatos may be a menace but at least i can see ! them and therefore also know when and at which direction they fire and how long until they reload. Hipper can't turn fast enough? Are you sailing the same ship as I am? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[NAVOC] Niibler Players 723 posts Report post #16 Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) Hipper can't turn fast enough? Are you sailing the same ship as I am? I took a look, OP is sailing the same ship as you but in a very different way. Probably still didn't discovered WASD. Also, making DDs visible when they dropped torpedos would make torp boats useless. I would like to suggest the OP to try and play DDs above T5 with some degree of success, and then come back and whine again. (ok, it will take a couple months but it would free the forum from some of his tears meanwhile). I do however agree that setting the max number of DDs to 3/4 (per side) would avoid some more exotic MM that sometimes happens. Edited July 20, 2016 by Niibler Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[RONIN] 22cm Beta Tester 6,377 posts 36,662 battles Report post #17 Posted July 20, 2016 Nope. See this: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[FTR] Krizmuz Players 780 posts 24,235 battles Report post #18 Posted July 20, 2016 DD spam is more a nerf for the Shima itself than to anybody else, especially Cruisers 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capra76 Players 5,001 posts 7,787 battles Report post #19 Posted July 20, 2016 The problem with a hard cap on DD numbers is it means a LOT longer waiting times for DD, not an extra 30 seconds but more like 10 minutes or more, think about how a queue works and you'll understand why. Incidentally, according to the stats there are far more BB than DD in high tier games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[MORIA] WarburtonLee Players 784 posts 11,585 battles Report post #20 Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) Let me say it right from the Start: I dont see this Topic as a " Whine Thread " even if some aspects could lead to that conclusion. And yes i know that Wargaming is only caring about the Russian forum but i still need to adress this. After six games in a row with Five Destroyers on each side i really think that the numbers of Destroyers in high Tier games should be limited. Because right now this directly effects the gameplay in a negative way. The Destroyers of both sides try to cap, smoke the moment they get detected and from that Moment on its a slow death on rates. No Ca or BB wants to get close because nobody wants to be the Idiot getting killed by a swarm of 15 Shima torpedoes or being constantly under Fire by a Khabarowsk without even being able to shoot back because you cant see the Enemy. The other teammates than complain especially about the BBs camping behind but with the insane Repair costs at Tier 9/X i can totally understand them. Carriers could be an Answer but the last AA Buff through the Patch made them a rare sight. And the short timed Radar is only available for US or Russian cruisers, the german and japanese are out. Maybe if Destroyers would be at least visible for a short amount of time when and after they fired Torpedoes, forcing them to act more carefully before shooting swarm after swarm of Torpedoes without any risk. But we know this wont happen. So again their Numbers should be limited because when almost half of the Team consists of a certain class - which also has the most advantages - you have to realize that the balancing is out of control.... My Idea would be maximum three Destroyers for each Side. And my idea is to triple or quadruple repair costs for loosing team and make them blow up / sink no matter what. That way, the campers will eventually learn Edited July 20, 2016 by WarburtonLee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanhal Alpha Tester 5,609 posts 5,569 battles Report post #21 Posted July 20, 2016 And my idea is to triple or quadruple repair costs for loosing team and make them blow up / sink no matter what. That way, the campers will eventually learn That way, the game dies in two months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TOXIC] ThePurpleSmurf Players 2,554 posts Report post #22 Posted July 20, 2016 The other teammates than complain especially about the BBs camping behind but with the insane Repair costs at Tier 9/X i can totally understand them. Repair Costs are pretty equal at high tier or in general. I am a DD player 95% of my games and i see a lot more DDs die (soon in a match) than anyone else. Usualy while capping and DDs get no backup from cruiser and BBs at all. DDs do not have the ability to shoot 2-3 salvos and sink ships and generate a ton of credits while sitting out of range for most other ships. If you want games to more active, less camping and more fighting, the repair costs have to go down drastically because this is the main reason why people camp and why mediocre players like myself hesitate to get T10 ships because of these insane costs. I stick to T8 and T9 where it is somewhat okay with the costs. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[MORIA] WarburtonLee Players 784 posts 11,585 battles Report post #23 Posted July 20, 2016 That way, the game dies in two months. Why? in other games, on public servers, or "fun-mode", there is often a penalty. Like in the old CS 1.6 where i do come from, survivors on loosing team where in many servers just slayed by default. That way, you had to try no matter the odds, no use in trying to survive 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,178 battles Report post #24 Posted July 20, 2016 Repair costs are a minor issue. You can see such behaviour at even much lower tiers. The problem is that nobody wants to die too early in a match. Therefore people tend to be very careful at the start. The more deadly the tier, the more pronounced that behaviour becomes. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[FTR] Krizmuz Players 780 posts 24,235 battles Report post #25 Posted July 20, 2016 Why? in other games, on public servers, or "fun-mode", there is often a penalty. Like in the old CS 1.6 where i do come from, survivors on loosing team where in many servers just slayed by default. That way, you had to try no matter the odds, no use in trying to survive Except in 1.6 you didn't have to pay repair bills for your character lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
