Low top tier CV population and AA?

[Cadelanne]

However, as nice as these mechanics are, I think they are secondary to the problem (1) - the (perceived or actual) powerlessness when being focused by a CV.

 

To this, WG could expect players to grow up a bit and accept when something isn't going according to their plan. Maybe it's frustrating if you don't know why the CV is focusing you and that you're sure that you can't do anything about it but ! you still can learn those things, by asking directly to people in game or on forums. Then when you're getting killed by a CV you know what you've done wrong and it's not so frustrating.

[Phlogistoned]

1. Then let's make BB and DD OP threads now. BB can oneshot cruiser easily at 20km at start of the game, before CVs even have planes in the air and cruisers can't shoot back.

 

2. DDs can torp you by hiding behind islands or by staying invisible and you can't shoot back either. Only class that seems to be balanced according to that idea are cruisers, and only those that can't invis-fire.

 

3. Also if you start with this "you seem to be not interested in balance" [edited]I will instantly stop talking to you. I have a whole blog dedicated to pointing out design flaws that is all about making the game more enjoyable for everyone.

 

4. Taking 30k flooding/fire damage is much less bad than 15k torpedo damage, because it's just temporarily lost health. Torpedo damage is mostly permanently lost. That's the idea behind that. You as die-hard BB player that doesn't even touch CVs should really know that difference.

1. What cruiser is visible from 20 kms before CVs even have planes in the air?

 

2. I have no problem with DDs like that. If I eat a DD salvo, it was most likely due to my (lack of) maneuvering. If I eat a CV salvo, it is because the CV said so. Invisifiring is annoying but it generally takes time before you are deleted, so you have time to do something about it.

 

3. Sorry, I wasn't reading your blog. I was reading your forum posts.

 

4. If the end result is deletion, it makes no difference. You can't trigger heals when sunk.

[Cadelanne]

 

2. I have no problem with DDs like that. If I eat a DD salvo, it was most likely due to my (lack of) maneuvering. If I eat a CV salvo, it is because the CV said so. Invisifiring is annoying but it generally takes time before you are deleted, so you have time to do something about it.

 

 

Play some CV games maybe ?

[Phlogistoned]

1. To this, WG could expect players to grow up a bit and accept when something isn't going according to their plan.

 

2. Maybe it's frustrating if you don't know why the CV is focusing you and that you're sure that you can't do anything about it but ! you still can learn those things, by asking directly to people in game or on forums. Then when you're getting killed by a CV you know what you've done wrong and it's not so frustrating.

1. And how has that worked out so far? WG has given their 'solution', which was to buff AA, and it makes the life of CV drivers a pain.

 

2. By now I have learned to try to stick close to friendly cruisers, but I can only *try*. I am really at their mercy. They are faster and more manoeuverable, and if they think things get too hot, or are more interesting elsewhere, I'm SOL.

I could have done everything right up until then, chat and all, but still get deleted. THAT is the frustration. I have no input. I didn't show broadside. I didn't sail in straight line. I didn't beach myself. I didn't YOLO. Just 'deleted'.

 

Oh, I *could* of course stay behind and snipe, and hope the CV goes for a closer target. (And now we can blame CVs for that behavior too... )

[Phlogistoned]

Play some CV games maybe ?

I don't find it enjoyable enough to want to play it much (and by extension learn it properly). It's a very different game from the other ships.

[Cadelanne]

1. And how has that worked out so far? WG has given their 'solution', which was to buff AA, and it makes the life of CV drivers a pain.

 

2. By now I have learned to try to stick close to friendly cruisers, but I can only *try*. I am really at their mercy. They are faster and more manoeuverable, and if they think things get too hot, or are more interesting elsewhere, I'm SOL.

I could have done everything right up until then, chat and all, but still get deleted. THAT is the frustration. I have no input. I didn't show broadside. I didn't sail in straight line. I didn't beach myself. I didn't YOLO. Just 'deleted'.

 

Oh, I *could* of course stay behind and snipe, and hope the CV goes for a closer target. (And now we can blame CVs for that behavior too... )

 

Actually my post wasn't supposed to be splitted into 2 separated points, as what you tagged "2" was the explanation of what you tagged "1". What it means is that I think that maybe people shouldn't expect WG to reduce their frustrations. They should instead be looking forward to become better players, which would of course reduce the frustration. That said, of course sometimes you'll be fucked, but as I said some players manage to deal really good versus CV while sailing battleships, so even if from time to time you're unlucky and really can't do anything, you're still able to have fun overall. Of course it's harder on lower tier where people are a bit clueless but that's the price for sealclubbing

 

I don't find it enjoyable enough to want to play it much (and by extension learn it properly). It's a very different game from the other ships.

 

What I meant is that if you think that CVs are mercilessly picking any target they want and deleting it from the game you're overestimating CVs' strength. Which wouldn't be the case if you actually had some mid / high tier CV games. Now if you think that it's unfair that a CV can deal 20k when bombing you even when you played good well ... remember that your guns can deal twice that amount while having 15% - 20% of a CV strike wing rearming time.

 

Protip edit : main CVs targets are often snipers as they're isolated. CV actually tends to make sniping BBs life harder =)

[Phlogistoned]

Oh, but I have deleted ships myself - even to the extent that I was cursed in chat.

 

Of course it wasn't just *any* ship, and I don't remember the exact circumstances, but for all I know he could have done everything right until the point where he was focused by me.

 

In any case it apparently wasn't a pleasant experience for the receiver.

[Cadelanne]

Of course it wasn't just *any* ship, and I don't remember the exact circumstances, but for all I know he could have done everything right until the point where he was focused by me.

 

So first it doesn't mean he couldn't have done anything at all. And common, you've done it at tier 4, versus mostly people that doesn't know how to play the game yet, in one of the the two tiers were carriers are really OP. That's like a 5k game 60% WR player was coming here saying that BBs are OP and need a rework because he's wrecking havoc in Kongo.

[Phlogistoned]

I think you misunderstand.

 

It was an anecdote where the main point was that even I, a novice CV player could make life miserable enough for another human being, that he cursed me in chat.

 

It does not indicate how easy or hard it was for me or him, only that his experience from that encounter was firmly 'not fun'.

 

It was, among other things, NOT an exciting and evenly matched duel that could just as well have ended with me being sunk.

 

I could have missed, yes, but I didn't.

 

Hitting and missing also has a lot more to do with MY skill than HIS skill. He doesn't have that much input. If I [edit] up he lives. If I drop the torps well he doesn't.

 

How do you make exchanges like that fun, or at least 'manageable', for the recipient of your attention?

[Cadelanne]

Teach them to use their WASD properly so they don't get sunk by torps that easy. I've played some BB too, and even if DDs are often a pain, I'm not having much trouble with carriers. When they strike me I lose like 15k - 20k HPs, over a pool of 60k. I use my heal and keep shooting at ennemy team. If even I, a BAD BB player, can do so, then it should be doable by anybody, given that anybody use more time at learning how torp drops work and how to avoid them than at cursing CVs in chats.

Now let me follow your reasoning and whine about BBs being OP because they're deleting cruisers from the game (truely deleting this time, not taking 30% or 50% of their HPs out) in one salvo.

 

[Phlogistoned]

Teach them to use their WASD properly so they don't get sunk by torps that easy. I've played some BB too, and even if DDs are often a pain, I'm not having much trouble with carriers. When they strike me I lose like 15k - 20k HPs, over a pool of 60k. I use my heal and keep shooting at ennemy team. If even I, a BAD BB player, can do so, then it should be doable by anybody, given that anybody use more time at learning how torp drops work and how to avoid them than at cursing CVs in chats.

 

Now let me follow your reasoning and whine about BBs being OP because they're deleting cruisers from the game (truely deleting this time, not taking 30% or 50% of their HPs out) in one salvo.

 

WASD has little impact on a good CV player's drop. And 15-20k is a LOT, so if I take that despite using WASD and all, I'd be pissed off.

 

We can reason about cruisers vs BBs when it becomes relevant to the topic. For the moment I think it is more important to find a way for people to stop hating CVs. I have stated why I think they do that - the helplessness and general non-input on the outcome. (Very little of that applies to driving cruisers vs battleships, which is why I think it is not relevant)

 

I have also suggested one mechanic that could change the experience from 'That was that game' to 'Ouch, but at least he won't target me next time'.

 

Do you have any suggestions for other game mechanics that could do the same?

[Cadelanne]

Once again you think that it's irrelevant because you're assuming that a CVs target is "helpless" which is not the case. WASD has never been useless, because it forces the CV pilot to either choose to make a not-so-good drop that will inflict not-so-many damages (which infact is the good choice most of the time), or to maneuver longer into AA range, losing more planes before dropping and therefore reducing damages. That's how it is useful, because yes it definitly is.

 

And, no, 15k - 20k isn't a lot coming from a carrier. It's decent, but not a lot. From drop 1 to drop 2, planes have around 2:30 rearming time. That's high alpha damages, but overall that's not a lot. When sailing battleships I'd 100% trade 1500 HP / salvos constant HE spamming to 20k alpha damages once in a while.

 

You've suggested a mechanic, I've told you why I think it's a bad idea, if you want other suggestions Syrchalis and Tomasberkut exposed very intresting things on this topic. If you ask me, I have no better suggestions than what Syrchalis and Tomasberkut have said. Which doesn't mean I can't have my own opinion on your suggestion, that's not how things work. I'd just say that trade this full automatic AA for something more demanding (and so more rewarding) can only be healthy for the gameplay.

[Syrchalis]

I think you misunderstand.

 

It was an anecdote where the main point was that even I, a novice CV player could make life miserable enough for another human being, that he cursed me in chat.

And I think thats exactly the reason you're so biased against CVs in that matter. (Read again: JUST THIS MATTER of deleting people with no counterplay, not saying you're biased in anything else with this sentence).

 

You played low tier CV. People are complete [edited]there, I kid you not. When I pack out my Langely for my stream to teach some basics I often watch my super freaking slow torpedo bombers make a super freaking slow approach and drop super freaking slow torpedos, while the target just moves straight or even away so he collects all the torpedos. OF COURSE you delete someone like that. That's the exact same thing as firing a DD salvo with tight spread at someone 2-3km away and he drives perfectly into it so that all torpedos hit. Noone complains about that.

 

Counterplay versus CVs does not rely on teamwork. Teamwork just helps, unlike for counterplay against anything else, at least in this magnitude.

 

The problem with CVs is that the counterplay is not plain obvious so a 70 IQ baddie can get it right away. For DDs it's "use WASD" - something even the worst players get to an extent. The amount of people who TURN AWAY in the last moment when torpedos are already in the water is huge. The amount of BBs I can hit with a stealth torpedo salvo from 7km is near zero. Then again, there are some at T4/5 - and following that logic it's no surprise there are A LOT who don't dodge a CV strike.

 

Cruisers are fast and manuverable. Torpedo bombers are VERY slow at T4, yet you delete cruisers easily - this is JUST because the players play bad, not because CVs are strong. So those few CV games you played showed you an extremely biased picture - players who never played versus CVs before, are generally new and still busy with basics like aiming. The idea alone to start dodging before the torps are in the water is completely alien to them.

 

If we turn the skill levels around, most CVs can barely hit 1 torpedo when I play Kongo or Arizona. So there is no problem.

[Tomasberkut]

As for other gamę mechanics to make cv more friendly.

 

A global cv nerf in terms of alpha damage in my opinion.

A significant decrease of damage per squad is in order, while increasing chance of critical module damage, flooding and fire.

Faster planes, faster torps, decreased service time, more accurate Us Db. Make cv gameplay more fun.
 

[Cadelanne]

The thing with faster planes and faster rearming is that it would require some serious multitasking for Taiho and Hak. Not saying it's a bad thing but it'll be much more demanding for those using these CVs.

[Phlogistoned]

1. Once again you think that it's irrelevant because you're assuming that a CVs target is "helpless" which is not the case. WASD has never been useless, because it forces the CV pilot to either choose to make a not-so-good drop that will inflict not-so-many damages (which infact is the good choice most of the time), or to maneuver longer into AA range, losing more planes before dropping and therefore reducing damages. That's how it is useful, because yes it definitly is.

 

2. And, no, 15k - 20k isn't a lot coming from a carrier. It's decent, but not a lot. From drop 1 to drop 2, planes have around 2:30 rearming time. That's high alpha damages, but overall that's not a lot.

 

3. When sailing battleships I'd 100% trade 1500 HP / salvos constant HE spamming to 20k alpha damages once in a while.

 

4. You've suggested a mechanic, I've told you why I think it's a bad idea, if you want other suggestions Syrchalis and Tomasberkut exposed very intresting things on this topic. If you ask me, I have no better suggestions than what Syrchalis and Tomasberkut have said. Which doesn't mean I can't have my own opinion on your suggestion, that's not how things work. I'd just say that trade this full automatic AA for something more demanding (and so more rewarding) can only be healthy for the gameplay. 

I'll try to reply to all 3 posts from you, Syrchalis and Tomas Berkut, but it'll probably have to be 3 separate replies, as I'm on mobile.

 

1. If I take 15-20k damage despite using WASD hack, I'd classify that as pretty useless, and a pretty poor experience. Especially since you'll be back shortly for another 15-20k.

 

2. 15-20k is a lot. And it's problematic because in your own words it is nigh-on unavoidable despite using WASD hack.

 

(I assume the 15-20k doesn't include the extra citadels taken from  being forced to show broadside to the enemy while WASDing.)

 

3. And yet you play CVs. Why? (I think you said once that you do it because no other ship gives you the power to control the battle. Is that correct?)

 

4. I will respond to them, but let me just say that I agree that the AA mechanic is bad. It helps maintain the feeling of helplessness for the targets, because AA efficiency is pretty much out of their control. Yes, they can ctrl-click, but that is not much.

[Phlogistoned]

1. And I think thats exactly the reason you're so biased against CVs in that matter. (Read again: JUST THIS MATTER of deleting people with no counterplay, not saying you're biased in anything else with this sentence).

 

2. You played low tier CV. People are complete [edited]there, I kid you not. When I pack out my Langely for my stream to teach some basics I often watch my super freaking slow torpedo bombers make a super freaking slow approach and drop super freaking slow torpedos, while the target just moves straight or even away so he collects all the torpedos. OF COURSE you delete someone like that. That's the exact same thing as firing a DD salvo with tight spread at someone 2-3km away and he drives perfectly into it so that all torpedos hit. Noone complains about that.

 

3. Counterplay versus CVs does not rely on teamwork. Teamwork just helps, unlike for counterplay against anything else, at least in this magnitude.

 

The problem with CVs is that the counterplay is not plain obvious so a 70 IQ baddie can get it right away. For DDs it's "use WASD" - something even the worst players get to an extent. The amount of people who TURN AWAY in the last moment when torpedos are already in the water is huge. The amount of BBs I can hit with a stealth torpedo salvo from 7km is near zero. Then again, there are some at T4/5 - and following that logic it's no surprise there are A LOT who don't dodge a CV strike.

 

Cruisers are fast and manuverable. Torpedo bombers are VERY slow at T4, yet you delete cruisers easily - this is JUST because the players play bad, not because CVs are strong. So those few CV games you played showed you an extremely biased picture - players who never played versus CVs before, are generally new and still busy with basics like aiming. The idea alone to start dodging before the torps are in the water is completely alien to them.

 

If we turn the skill levels around, most CVs can barely hit 1 torpedo when I play Kongo or Arizona. So there is no problem.

1. It has certainly affected my view.

 

2. The poor sod I sunk did actually use WASD hack. I do too, plus ask for help in chat, point out plane targets etc.

 

And it's not the same as being sunk by a torp spread from 2-3 kms. The DD has to get in close and thereby risk being sunk or at least damaged himself.

 

3. If you have any tips on how to maneuver to avoid torp drops, I'll happily listen to them. I am seldom caught pants down due to not observing minimap so, you can assume that I can take any angle vs the incoming strike force. Currently I tend to try to let them come from behind, and slow to 50% and turn into the torp bombers when they get close. This usually leads to the torp bombers repositioning on the outside of my turning circle. If I contine turning, they drop on me turning away. If I switch rudder to start turning into them, they drop when the rudder is close to neutral. I eat a lot of torps either way, so I can't really say which tactic is more or less useable.

[ShinGetsu]

Phlogis, I didn't saw your stats, but I assume I'm not wrong if I say you only played tier 4-5 CV at most ?

 

The game is totally different at these tier. Don't forget that the alpha damage from the TB doesn't vary at all from tier 4 to tier 10. And torpedo belt is more frequent as the tier progress. Even at tier 6 a New Mex boast a whooping 40% torpedo protection. Meaning an IJN CV does 4600 damage per torpedo hits on a NM. You need at least three torpedo hits to do half decent damage. 

Sure, when playing Hosho, doing 20k damage in a single drop is enormous. Doing so in a Shokaku is less than a well aimed salvo from an Amagi or Tirpitz, and you have four time the reload time.

 

Yesterday with Shoka I did a 8/8 drop on an Amagi. He ate 38k in one attack. I aimed well with my manual aim, but he did three errors : being alone with an IJN BB, seeing my planes too late and maneuvering at the last moment on the wrong side.

And that's not even enough to consider this a "deletion". I got a little more than half his HP. If I were in a Fubuki he would have died instantly.

Also Shoka is the only CV which I really find fun from the whole IJN tree from tier 4 to 8. Hosho is boring, Zuiho suffers from AS Bogue, Ryujo is somewhat ok,  and Hiryu was an endless suffering.

 

A good TB drop is a manual aim coming a little from behind the ship, anticipating his turn and with the first torpedo closer to the ship than the last one.

If you want to be annoying for a CV, you have to turn at full rudder towards the TBs and dropping your speed. Even if he manage to drop on you, he'll have to maneuver with his TB, which means high chance to lose 1 or 2 of them. 

But the best protection is obviously "never stay alone". And that's why, in my opinion, insane AA BB like NC and Iowa should never have appeared in the game. An isolated BB is a huge target, nothing more.

[Cadelanne]

I'll try to reply to all 3 posts from you, Syrchalis and Tomas Berkut, but it'll probably have to be 3 separate replies, as I'm on mobile.

 

1. If I take 15-20k damage despite using WASD hack, I'd classify that as pretty useless, and a pretty poor experience. Especially since you'll be back shortly for another 15-20k.

 

2. 15-20k is a lot. And it's problematic because in your own words it is nigh-on unavoidable despite using WASD hack.

 

(I assume the 15-20k doesn't include the extra citadels taken from  being forced to show broadside to the enemy while WASDing.)

 

3. And yet you play CVs. Why? (I think you said once that you do it because no other ship gives you the power to control the battle. Is that correct?)

 

4. I will respond to them, but let me just say that I agree that the AA mechanic is bad. It helps maintain the feeling of helplessness for the targets, because AA efficiency is pretty much out of their control. Yes, they can ctrl-click, but that is not much.

 

Won't be back shortly. When it already takes 2:30 to go rearming and be back near a potential target even a BB has some times to get repped and prepaired for the next drop. And of course if you're talking about tier 4, yes 15k - 20k damages is a lot but we already told you many times that CVs are a nonsense at low tier. If you talk about tier 8 then you are not objectve. At all.

 

Furthermore, you've misread me. I didn't say I enjoy CV because you can control battle. I enjoy them because you achieve a good control of the battlefield, because you're scouting a large part of the map and you're able to give support to any ally faster than you would do with any other ship. And before you quote me, no, controlling the battlefield doesn't mean that I'm doing whatever I want with the battlefield, it just means that I'm a great ship to got an overhaul view of what's happening and react. It's the real strength of CVs imho. The counterpart to this is that it has no push value and therefore it's not capping points nor tanking damages. Also, I play battleships from time to time. Not as much than CVs for now but I'm going to grind the IJN BB line to the Yamato sooner or later because I also like to play as a battleship.

[Tomasberkut]

I do enjoy playing CV because I feel in controll of what is happening.

 

When I play in any other ship class, especially in DD or BB I can influence only the point at which I am at. If, and this often happens I misjudge the tactical situation there is a long peroid of time where I feel powerless to do anything for the team.

 

Its the worst when I play BB. I tend to play them super agressive. Get in to action, mop the floor with enemies or die trying and suddenly it so happens im alone on the flank with nothing to do.

 

In a CV I can always do something. Spot DD, look for torpedoes, support CA / BB atacking enemy DD/ torpedo CA, spot ships for long range snipes, scare the enemys in to a prefered position, leverage our position against enemy attacking planes, be the bait. All of that without a single torpedo or bomb dropped on the enemy.

 

 

[Syrchalis]

1. It has certainly affected my view.

 

2. The poor sod I sunk did actually use WASD hack. I do too, plus ask for help in chat, point out plane targets etc.

 

And it's not the same as being sunk by a torp spread from 2-3 kms. The DD has to get in close and thereby risk being sunk or at least damaged himself.

 

3. If you have any tips on how to maneuver to avoid torp drops, I'll happily listen to them. I am seldom caught pants down due to not observing minimap so, you can assume that I can take any angle vs the incoming strike force. Currently I tend to try to let them come from behind, and slow to 50% and turn into the torp bombers when they get close. This usually leads to the torp bombers repositioning on the outside of my turning circle. If I contine turning, they drop on me turning away. If I switch rudder to start turning into them, they drop when the rudder is close to neutral. I eat a lot of torps either way, so I can't really say which tactic is more or less useable.

 

Basically what it comes down to: Cruisers at T4/5 have 20k hp. The torpedos do 8-10k damage, more if you hit engine which is often. Even if they dodge semi-properly they can eat 3 torpedos from the tight US spread, which is a oneshot. AA is too weak to reduce the strike to something you can survive without dodging properly.

However, cruisers at the tier are extremely mobile, so you should never get hit by more than 1 torpedo. AA has to be weak because if you shoot down 2-3 planes that's like killing a turret on a BB permanently.

 

At any higher tier any ship has decent enough AA to reduce your reserves to zero before the game ends. Defensive fire makes it impossible to attack cruisers and anything near them. You lose a lot of strike aircraft before the attack even - while it's usually just 20-30% of your attack, it can easily mean half or less damage, due to how plane deaths work (you aim a certain way, and the exact torpedo bomber that should hit died, and those that missed stayed alive).

Even if you hit, ships have 20-55% torpedo protection (most are around 30-40%) - so your torpedos do A LOT less damage than on low tier. Everything has AA that shoots planes down before they can drop. Even IJN BBs.

 

Dodging torpedo squads depends on your AA. If you have really bad AA then just drive straight, hope he miscalculates your speed (this happens a lot) and then turn in. If you are not in a fast ship, do the same just think he will drop too far infront. In that case, slow down to full reverse and turn in.

If you have good AA make sure to keep turning your rear to the bombers, no matter what happens. Just keep doing that, never change rudder. The time he needs to reposition your AA will have killed everything easily. Tirpitz with manual AA skill no AA modules and no AFT can easily avoid a full Shokaku strike this way. Even in bad situations you can really mess with the CV this way.

 

 

[Phlogistoned]

Thanks for the tips, Syrchalis. Will put them to use when I get home.

[Hauptbahnhof]

The thing that is most strange to me is that I personally have played more games in a Battleship then in a Carrier. And not even when Carriers were as most OP around end of open beta have I felt that I "got deleted" by one without it being my own fault...

 

Carrier were able to sink my Battleship in a single strike in very few games, less then 5 ( currently it's impossible for same tier ), and every time I was sunk or hit hard by CVs during all my games it was because either I was tunnel visioning, or I was away from the team on some silly solo crusade, often both at the same time.

 

Why have I never raged myself over powerful Carriers in thousands of games in other ships? Because I understand how they work, and I can recognize the mistakes I made, and can recognize the skill needed by the enemy Carrier captain to do that perfect drop.

 

So the solution here is to get everyone to try out Carriers, not push everyone away from them!

 

To get there I think that a few things need to happen, and they need to happen mostly in low tier where CVs are accessible. Here is what I'd like to see in rough order of importance:

 

• Introduce Carriers already in tier 3 with a direct offshoot from Cruiser line ( to make them more accessible ), so add 2 new CVs
• Add a fairly cheap tier 4 or 5 premium CV. Preferably an interesting British one with 5 planes per wing since that would be cool, unique and draw people in.
• Nerf the AA on Cleveland and Texas ( Texas can currently end up in the first match a new CV player does in T4, and Cleveland short after for any very new T5 CV )
• Increase rewards of XP and Credits on Carriers ( especially low tier ).
• Make auto attacks torpedoes drop closer to the target so they hit more ( but not as close as possible ).
• Bring AA damage and plane hitpoints closer together so tier in general matters less ( Its not fun to always dominate as a CV when your top tier and always get shredded when bottom tier ). This would also allow different tiers of CVs to face eachother at least +-1 reducing top tier wait times and making Carriers in general 3 times more interesting due to combination of possible enemy CVs.
• Add spotting XP to reward Carriers of all tier spotting.

 

Even if it sounds like it doesn't make sense, getting a Tier 10 Battleship player to try out CVs just for 20-30 games in low tier, have an interesting experience and understand a bit more how they work will make them way more acceptable to getting hit by a CV back in their BB in tier 10 without raging.
 

After all that is done and most players have tried Carriers it would be much easier to talk about making high tier CVs more powerful or reducing the currently crazy levels of AA on high tier.

[Redcap375]

After reading all these posts, i feel too knacked to write anything substantial:

 

Nutshell points:

 

1) BIG difference between tiers 4-6 and 7-10. Players get better, AA gets alot better

 

2) CVs in higher tier matches effects them more than any other Ship. SHO in a tier 10 is a good example.

 

3)  On their own BBs knocking around the map should get punished for doing so, simple.  I expect that when i sail my NAG, but then again, i'm a teamplayer and stay close to Cruisers .  US BBs are close too untouchable.  That's 50% of prim CV targets off the slate.

 

4) AA consumables and ship planes are everywhere and nearly everyone has it.   Push and button and boom. Either planes get deleted very quick or the torp and bomber spread is enough to make your eyes water. The longer you are in the air waiting, the more chance they are going to get blown up.

 

 

[Syrchalis]

 

• Introduce Carriers already in tier 3 with a direct offshoot from Cruiser line ( to make them more accessible ), so add 2 new CVs
• Add a fairly cheap tier 4 or 5 premium CV. Preferably an interesting British one with 5 planes per wing since that would be cool, unique and draw people in.
• Nerf the AA on Cleveland and Texas ( Texas can currently end up in the first match a new CV player does in T4, and Cleveland short after for any very new T5 CV )
• Increase rewards of XP and Credits on Carriers ( especially low tier ).
• Make auto attacks torpedoes drop closer to the target so they hit more ( but not as close as possible ).
• Bring AA damage and plane hitpoints closer together so tier in general matters less ( Its not fun to always dominate as a CV when your top tier and always get shredded when bottom tier ). This would also allow different tiers of CVs to face eachother at least +-1 reducing top tier wait times and making Carriers in general 3 times more interesting due to combination of possible enemy CVs.
• Add spotting XP to reward Carriers of all tier spotting.

 

 

 

 

WG can't even nerf damage, let alone fix broken US layouts nor fix the interface after a year. Thinking they will do anything but change numbers is way beyond optimism.